Re: How NOT to Conworld.
Posted: 09 Jul 2012 18:35
Star Wars is pretty much the model of how not to conworld.hubris_incalculable wrote: I'm looking at you, Star Wars.
Discuss constructed languages, cultures, worlds, related sciences and much more!
http://cbbforum.com/
Star Wars is pretty much the model of how not to conworld.hubris_incalculable wrote: I'm looking at you, Star Wars.
What if the "aliens" were really humans who ended up on another planet (by other aliens, perhaps?), and the only differences is that they adapted slightly differently to their atmosphere?taylorS wrote:A Sci-Fi pet-peeve:
<span class="gti-match gti-match-paragraph gti-match-paragraph-30">Aliens who all look like funny-looking humans (complete with fingernails and breasts) and <span class="google-translation-immersion-group google-translation-immersion-highlight-sticky"><span class="google-translation-immersion-original" style="display:none;">can</span><span class="google-translation-immersion-outer-word-wrap"><span class="google-translation-immersion-inner-word-wrap">se</span></span></span> hybridize with us (like Spock's parents). It is highly unlikely for another intelligent species too look so similar to us. Yes, <span class="google-translation-immersion-group google-translation-immersion-highlight-sticky"><span class="google-translation-immersion-original" style="display:none;">there might be some</span><span class="google-translation-immersion-outer-word-wrap"><span class="google-translation-immersion-inner-word-wrap">podría haber alguna</span></span></span> convergent evolution (opposible digits for using tools and reduced jaws because of cooking), but they will otherwise look very different. Read the novels of David Brin's "Uplift" universe for realistic aliens. </span>
Catherine Asaro wrote that series.thaen wrote: What if the "aliens" were really humans who ended up on another planet (by other aliens, perhaps?), and the only differences is that they adapted slightly differently to their atmosphere?
The Warforged are extremely important because they're a major part of Eberron's theme on the nature of sentience and the rights of non-humans. They represent other important ideas as well, such as parenthood and even the value of humanity (read up on the Warforged religions in Faiths of Eberron). They work so well precisely because they zoom out and let us look at the issue through a different perspective.xBlackWolfx wrote:but the warforged are completely uninteresting, and unnecessary (they appear to exist solely so half-orcs dont have to be a playable race)
This isn't necessarily fun for everyone but I get your point. I guess it all depends on how you define creating something new. Does it have to be funky alien creatures speaking a funky alien language, or can it be a human speaking a new language on a new planet similar to earth but with a different history, different cultures and so on?Micamo wrote:It's because exploring unfamiliar ideas is part of what makes conworlding/conlanging so much fun.
While I've never played DDO, the thing about it is it takes place in Xen'drik which is basically a gigantic uninhabited jungle with some ruins here and there. Where Eberron really shines as a setting (and where the most effort was placed) is in Khorvaire, which, AFAIK, DDO never touches.xBlackWolfx wrote:since when was eberron the most popular? the sole reason it even exists is bc some kid won a contest, and most ppl like to criticize it it seems. and besides, i've played that dnd online thing, which takes place in eberron, i find the setting to be very very bland. infact, in the entire beginning area, the most amusing thing that happens, is when you're supposed to sneak past a dragon, but a female cleric and her group (consisting of a warforged sorcerer and a very cliche halfling rogue) who's supposed to be HELPING you charges in out of nowhere and wakes it, and as i was running away i looked back and saw the dragon chasing ME. and i was only like lvl 3 at the time (the leveling system in the game is wierd btw). yeah, of the entire beginnig area, the only part that amused me at all was getting chased by a dragon at lvl 3, after an npc cleric foolishly woke it up. and to be honest, i liked the island more before it was all sunny (the ice dragon is apparently freezing the entire island, which ironnically is normally tropical). i wasnt amused at the game at all, infact i never even bothered to go to stormreach i was so unimpressed. and that's ignoring the rather dull and simple gameplay, which honestly i dont think was all that bad, outside the fact that you need a way to pick locks in order to progress through the 'free' part of the game, which you have to pay real money for if you're not a rogue. there are mercenaries you can get without real money, but not one of them can pick locks (i think your options are a fighter, a barbarian, and a cleric)
The difference is, in the Realms, you can walk up and talk to a god, in the flesh, if you really want to. You can even try to kill one if you've got the balls for it. You can cast Plane Shift and actually wind up in Heaven so you can visit your Great Grandma Judy.and btw, how is eberron religion different from the forgotten realms? there's still a pantheon of gods, there's still clerics, and in dnd online one quest has you destroying altars to a god called the 'devourer'. only difference i know of is eberron does NOT make it clear the atheists are the only individuals that are truly punished in the afterlife. but it doesnt say that it ISNT true. in the forgotten realms, there is no freedom, you either worship one of the tyrannical parasitic gods or you're thrown into a wall that slowly digests souls until they cease to exist.
For exploring a conworld, you need some stories that take place in that conworld, otherwise it's just a coulisse. If someone randomly puts in weird and unfamiliar ideas, the conworld may end up messy and inconsistent. Then, fantasy ends up in an algorithm to randomly select form a huge set of most wierd ideas, which isn't fantasy at all.Micamo wrote:Look, the reason we like to see new things isn't because we're hipsters who are just too good for the "mainstream," It's because exploring unfamiliar ideas is part of what makes conworlding/conlanging so much fun. If you're just going to regurgitate English/Tolkien... then why conlang/conworld at all?
Some people strive for a completely and utterly alien conlang for aliens, we had threads on that topic. To my mind, even that is not recommended, as I don't think that there are completely and utterly alien beings. The constraints of life and the need to communicate limit the possibilities.xBlackWolfx wrote:just as all the idiots on this site believe that you're only a good conlanger if your conlang is completely and utterly alien (and most likely unintelligible to anyone but maybe yourself) you think anyone who makes a world with a few cliches has no idea wtf they're doing.
Besides human-like people, I have sentient giant spiders, bat-like beings (the Catys) and dog-like beings (the Canisides) and an animal species which has small and long tentacles with nettles.xBlackWolfx wrote:tell me, if you cant feature elves and dwarves and gnomes and maybe hobbit-rip-offs, what else is there? mostly the only alternatives are animal ppl, catfolk, minotaurs, werewolves, frog people. sure you can do something wierd like the zombies in WoW or the 'warforged' in eberron (warforged purely and simply are magic androids, or golems according to actualy DnD books). but the warforged are completely uninteresting, and unnecessary (they appear to exist solely so half-orcs dont have to be a playable race).
Actually, that's a question of your skills as a writer. There are SF series where most weird characters are depicted sucessfully in extremely unusual situations, e.g. robots, human brains in robot bodies, clones, bodyly copies of certain beings, spirits living in hyperspace, minds of dead beings put into living beings to fulfill tasks, biological plasma beings, crystal beings, computers or robots with something like a ''mind'', either because they are extremely sophisticated or because they have biological plasma or brains as components, psionic ''remnants'' of already dead people who act by influencing living people, intelligent birds, insects, worms, fishes, intelligent beings floating in the atmosphere of a giant gas planet, intelligent plants, all of them maybe with psionic capabilitiesxBlackWolfx wrote:and honestly, who the hell can relate to a zombie or an android? if you relate to such characters, you're probably schizophrenic.
Or just because they love elves and dwarfs. Paolini made me think better of dwarfs, actually.xBlackWolfx wrote:the reason everyone keeps using elves and dwarves and other cliches is bc its nigh impossible to think of something that isnt just plain stupid, they just go with what clearly works.
Sometimes, it really seems to be like that.xBlackWolfx wrote:its like throwing away a perfectly good machine that works fine purely bc everyone else has one, and replacing it with a machine that doesn't work purely bc no one else is using it.
Yes!xBlackWolfx wrote:and besides, its quite difficult to create a fantasy race that doesnt look like a dwarf or elf or hobbit or gnome or w/e without it looking like something from startrek rather than a fantasy setting.
I like the Dark Crystal movie. Why shouldn't it be possible to give a fantasy world some SF elements?xBlackWolfx wrote:look at the dark crystal for instance, though normally billed as fantasy movie it does have alot of science fictiony elements. some of the flora and fauna of the world look like something from star wars. and gelflings look like a hybrid between elves and hobbits, and females have fairy wings (i've also noticed that reviews tend to refer to the gelflings as being 'elfin').
Yes, agreed, but some people need more than just entertainment.xBlackWolfx wrote:the main point is to be entertaining, not bizarre and unrelatable.
Check your facts, dude.xBlackWolfx wrote:the sole reason it even exists is bc some kid won a contest, and most ppl like to criticize it it seems
only if you redefine "biome" to mean something nobody else does.xBlackWolfx wrote:and what about single biome-planets? there's plenty of them in our own solar system,
Moved and locked, actually.thaen wrote:I suppose that my and thakowsaizmu's comments concerning Christianity were deleted.
Simply moved. I do not like deleteing posts without permission.thaen wrote:I suppose that my and thakowsaizmu's comments concerning Christianity were deleted.