The History of the Greater West

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elemtilas
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Re: The History of the Greater West

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Shemtov wrote:
21 Feb 2018 20:15
There are three Revelations in "Their" NT: The Revelation to St. John the Divine, which is missing the first three chapters, the "Number of the Beast" and has a very different view of the "Whore of Babylon", The Revelation to the Apostle Saul, which records what he supposedly saw and heard at the "Vision at the Border Town", and The Revelation and Confession of Judas the Accursed, where Jesus appears to Saul during his House Imprisonment, and Shows him the soul of Judas in Hell, who confesses his sin, but to no avail, and then points out places in Hell, to which Saul is guided by Jesus; It may be seen as a Canonical version of Dante's Inferno.
Oo, interesting!

Do you have the Revelation of Saul written, or is it more conceptual? Would be interesting to compare with the Gospel of Judas (from The World). There, the vision is also of Judas in Hell, but, having played his ordained part, he is taken out when once Jesus has ransacked the place and put paid to the proprietors.

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Re: The History of the Greater West

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elemtilas wrote:
21 Feb 2018 20:35
Shemtov wrote:
21 Feb 2018 20:15
There are three Revelations in "Their" NT: The Revelation to St. John the Divine, which is missing the first three chapters, the "Number of the Beast" and has a very different view of the "Whore of Babylon", The Revelation to the Apostle Saul, which records what he supposedly saw and heard at the "Vision at the Border Town", and The Revelation and Confession of Judas the Accursed, where Jesus appears to Saul during his House Imprisonment, and Shows him the soul of Judas in Hell, who confesses his sin, but to no avail, and then points out places in Hell, to which Saul is guided by Jesus; It may be seen as a Canonical version of Dante's Inferno.
Oo, interesting!

Do you have the Revelation of Saul written, or is it more conceptual? Would be interesting to compare with the Gospel of Judas (from The World). There, the vision is also of Judas in Hell, but, having played his ordained part, he is taken out when once Jesus has ransacked the place and put paid to the proprietors.
The Revelation of Saul, or as it's more commonly known, to differentiate it from the two other Revelations, The Vision, is different from The Revelation and Confession of Judas the Accursed,, whose nickname is Confession of Judas. The first is what Saul saw when he was called by Jesus. It Begins with the language of Acts 26:13-18:
The record and witness of Saul, Apostle and Slave or the Lord Christ Jesus, when he came the border town: I saw a light from heaven, brighter than the sun, shining around me and my companions. When we had all fallen to the ground, I heard a voice saying to me in the Hebrew language, ‘Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me? It hurts you to kick against the goads.’ I asked, ‘Who are you, Lord?’ The Lord answered, ‘I am Jesus whom you are persecuting. But get up and stand on your feet; for I have appeared to you for this purpose, to appoint you to serve and testify to the things in which you have seen and to those in which I will appear to you. I will rescue you from your people and from the Gentiles—to whom I am sending you to open their eyes so that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may receive forgiveness of sins and a place among those who are sanctified by faith in me.’
It continues:
Behold- the Gentiles- I send you to them. Let me tell you of Salvation to the Foreskinned
And then lays out basic Sauline Theology.
Confession of Judas is a second Vision of Saul, where Judas is condemned in the harshest terms (an edited version of Gospel of Judas does appear in the Simonist scriptures.):
Then Judas shouted "Lord, Lord, O Lord, i have sinned. You heard my confession to this man Saul. Redeem me in your Grace." But The Lord Christ replied: "Judas, Judas, O Judas, what can I do for you? If you not taken your own life, if you, in life, had submitted to death, and to me, then I would have raised you, and your betrayal would be forgotten by all. But now you have died- it is too late- you cannot be Saved."
Another important difference is that the Gospel of John and the Petrine Epistles do not exist in their canon, but both are replaced by The Gospel According to Peter, which is a sayings Gospel, like Thomas, but is put in the context of a discourse given by Jesus just before his triumphal entry to Jerusalem. It contains a reparation of Matthew's Sermon on the Mount, with some additions of Luke's Sermon in the Plain, interspersed with Various Johanine parables, things that appear in the IRL Petrine letters, and the first thing Jesus says is:
In the Beginning,I was the word. And as the Word I was with G-d and was G-d. Through me all things were made; without me nothing was made that has been made.In Me was life, and that life was the light of all mankind.My light shines in the darkness, and the darkness will never overcome me.You do not understand this- some of you may swear me off for this- but you will understand when the Son of Man rises.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Shemtov
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Re: The History of the Greater West

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Shemtov wrote:
07 Mar 2018 03:15

Another important difference is that the Gospel of John and the Petrine Epistles do not exist in their canon, but both are replaced by The Gospel According to Peter, which is a sayings Gospel, like Thomas, but is put in the context of a discourse given by Jesus just before his triumphal entry to Jerusalem.
I want to add the reason for this:
Early churches Canon Lists did include the Four IRL Gospels- Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John. However, a Sect called The Johanines, reacted to what they called"The Unharmony of The Gospels", that is, the nature of the Last Supper, and the date of the Crucifixion, by only accepting John as the true Gospel, with Matthew's Nativity inserted after the Prologue. Many of what would become "Orthodox" churches reacted to this by removing John, accepting the charges of "disharmony", but wanted a text that taught Johanine ideas, and wanted "four gospels" as that had became an essential part of their Christianity, seized on The Gospel According to Peter, which was a sayings gospel attributed to Peter (it was a compilation of the Petrine Epistles, with parts of Matthew and Luke added to make it look like that even though it was recorded by Peter, Jesus said the contents) with heavy Johanine edits, as a replacement. Many of these Churches had accepted the The Gospel According to Peter either as a book called The Last Sermon , or as an addition to Mark, just before the Entry record there.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Re: The History of the Greater West

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Oh, wow! [O.O] Oh, wow!

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Shemtov
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Re: The History of the Greater West

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Shemtov wrote:
21 Feb 2018 20:15
. There is also an Epistle To the Athenians,
This is a short letter, one chapter, of 33 verses. It is placed after Philemon, as the early Canon-builders had trouble placing it: It is addressed to "The Church in Athens" AND "Dionysus, leader of those not of the seed of Abraham by blood in that Church", and has aspects of both the Church-addressed Epistles and the Pastorals. Later Theologians would consider it a unique kind of Epistle: The Evangelical Epistle.
It gives advice how Christians in the early Church should convert non-Jews "Do not be dragged into philosophical debate about their idols: Rather, prove the Prophets and Moses to them: But always intertwine how the Prophets foresaw Christ Jesus: His Crucifixion and Resurrection: The same proof your brothers give to Jews: Intertwined these proofs shall be: Like a well-woven tapestry,: Beautiful to the eyes, so be well-woven and proper to the ears:"-6-13.
It then goes on about keeping Christians "Faithful to the G-d of the Prophets, the Father of Christ", and then reiterates the points of 6-13.
In addition, the Christian OT is different there. In addition to the books of the Jewish Tanakh, it contains all the additional books of IRL Eastern Church, Enoch, and the Testament of the Twelve Tribes (Known there as the Wills of the Twelve Tribes). This last one is there to match with an additional NT book: The Wills of the Eleven Loyal Apostles, placed after the Catholic Epistles and before the Apocalypses, that give the supposed farewell speeches of each of the 11 Apostles. this was probably the last book written, The Will of Peter repeating a lot of The Gospel of Peter "As The Lord said".
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Re: The History of the Greater West

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elemtilas wrote:
05 Dec 2016 04:17


Do you have any of the Neo-Zoroastrian or Simonist texts worked out yet?
The Simonist Scriptures (Asfari Aysodh Adha'ath A'ameth A'av) contain the following books:
True Genesis: (Briyath A'ameth): A reworking of the first four chapters of Genesis and 5:1-8
Seth (Shith): Prophecies of Seth
Enoch (Hanokh): The Book of Enoch, with some changes to the Watchers, except the Noah Portions
Noah (Nowa): Noah portions of Enoch, Gen. 6-9, added comments
Chronicles of Three Patriarchs: (Dvari Ayåmim Shlosh Avoth): Edited Gen. 11-36
Chronicles of The Law: (Dvari Ayåmim Atorå): Edited rest of Narrative of Pentateuch
The Law of Moses: (Atoråth Moshe): Legal sections of Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy.
Song of Moses (Shirath Moshe): Deut. 32
Chronicles of The Israelites: (Dvari Ayåmim Bri Yilra'el): Edited Joshua, Judges, Samuel, Kings and Narrative portions of Isaiah
Ruth (Ruth)
Jonah (Yonåhu)
Zoroaster: (Zera' Da'athu): Tells how Zardustu, one of the descendants of Keturah encountered Jonah, met Elisha,who changed his name to Zera' Da'athu (Seed of Knowledge) and was charged to teach the Persians about G-d, but was corrupted (This book influenced Nog-Zardosht)
Lamentation of Zechariah son of Berachiah: (Kinath Skhariyåhu Bar Brakhiyåhu): Lamentations over the "Corruptions" of Daniel
The Lesser Gospel: (Ivaghkalyon Zutrå): Edited version of Luke, with proem of John (Johanine Christians were known to Simon).
The Greater Gospel: (Ivaghkalyon Rabå): Stories about Jesus not in Christian Gospels, including Infancy Gospel of Thomas, Gospel of Peter, Gospel of Judas, Acts of Thomas, Story of Mary Magdalene and her sex with Jesus
Sermon Gospel: (Ivaghkalyon Drashå): Gospel of Thomas
Lesser Epistle of James: (Mikhtaveth Ya'akov Notsri Zutrå): Book of James, edited
Greater Epistle of James: (Mikhtaveth Ya'akov Notsri Rabå): Letter attrib. to James, about Simonist cosmology and the "corruptions" of Saul of Tarsus
Lesser Epistle of Peter: (Mikhtaveth Kefa Zutrå): 1 & 2 Peter, edited
Greater Epistle of Peter: (Mikhtaveth Kefa Rabå): Letter attrib. to Peter, about Simonist cosmology and the "corruptions" of Saul of Tarsus
Simon and Batda'ath (Shimon UBatda'ath): Narrative of Simon and Batda'ath
Lesser Wisdom: (Da'ath Zutrå): Sections of Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, Ben Sirach, Job and Wisdom of Solomon
Greater Wisdom: (Da'ath Rabå): Prophecies of Batda'ath
Secret of Wisdom: (Aysodh Adha'ath): Prophecies of Simon of Gaza
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Re: The History of the Greater West

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The beginning of the Simonist Book of Seth:
When his father Adam died, and the funereal was ended, Seth assembled his children and Tubal-Cain and his children (Tubal-Cain was the only one of the line of Cain to hearken to the Father, and his Son and Daughter). [Seth] spoke to them:
I am speaking of mysteries. I knew these since when I was pubescent.
The Son has ten names:
The Son
Son-of-Men
The Lamb
Hayim [Life]
The Lord
The-Gate-and-The-Way
The Spirit-of-Life
Jesus
Messiah [Christ]
Simon

And so for the daughter:
The Daughter
Pistith
Da'ath-Elyonith
Olåmkulå [Plemora]
Holy Spirit
Hayå [The Living One]
Barbelå
Isheth-Hayil [Valiant Woman]
Mary Magdalene
Batda'ath

And when my brother Cain murdered my brother Abel, The Father spoke to the Son and Daughter, and asked: "What should be done with the Man? Send one of your firstborn sons, the seven archangels, the High Aeons, to take human form and be the new son of Adam and Eve." And The Son Said, "Father, but, they unlike us, if they descend, cannot come to mankind again, for they can father human children. Is this not what the Demiurge, Samael, The Fool, does with the Archons?" But The Daughter said "Let it be as you have spoken, Father."
The Father said "Assemble your firstborn sons, the seven archangels, the High Aeons, and see which will volunteer."
For The Son and The Daughter, when first created, cohabited and had septuplets , the seven High Aeons:
Micheal
Gabriel
Nuriel
Rafael
Metatroel
Sandalfoel
Seth

And none volunteered except the youngest, Seth. And The Father said "You shall be known when you reascend as Great Seth. For though you may not speak to humankind, they should pray to you first of all the Aeons. Only I and your parents shall be above you"

And I descended as a child into the womb of Eve. Now. give praise, children.

And he led them in praise:
Bless the Father, my Soul, and all its aspects the Holy Names of The Son and Daughter
Praise the Father, Yea, praise The Holy Son and Daughter
Praise them in their exalted heights
Praise them as they are great
All souls, Praise the Father, Son and Daughter
Praise the Father, Son and Daughter
All souls, Praise the Father, Son and Daughter
Praise the Father, Son and Daughter
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Re: The History of the Greater West

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More of The Book of Seth:
He [Seth] continued his discourse:
The difference between The Father and The Demiurge is the difference is the difference between light and dark. The Demiurge dwells in darkness- he wishes to be one majesty, without the Father. He is in the darkness of ignorance that he can succeed. But even when the Demiurge made Adam and Eve fall, the Father rejoiced in his light. He created the Son and Daughter- The power to bring light and the ability to focus the power.
The Daughter- those blasphemers enslaved to the Demiurge see her as a whore. But what she wants is to provide the focus for the power of the Son, her brother- for the glory of their Father! Thus, to those in darkness, she is indeed a whore. But the true whores are the Archons of the Demiurge. Deluded by their darkness, they call their oldest sister Veil-of-Virginity- but those in light see her as Defiled-Vagina.
To explain, how may I liken the Son and the Daughter? I liken it to intercourse. Set the innermost parts of your hearts on it- the man and woman are alone. The man, when he is in the climax of his power, emits semen, and this gives his strength to the woman. But see! At that instant the woman gives him focus.
So the Son and Daughter work in secret to those in darkness- but they make each other fulfill their potential- for the glory of the Father!
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Re: The History of the Greater West

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More excerpts and summary of the rest of the contents:
Now, the Father is undivided, self-begotten, and his existence, and the existence of the Son and Daughter are a better existence than any others that exist.
Now the Archons of the Demiurge might whisper to you: "How can begotten come from self-begotten and divided from undivided?" Then meditate on the light: "How could I be so mad, I who know the secrets of the Aeons, the light of the Father, Son and Daughter?"

The world was created by a word, and thus is fleeting as a word, but to those who die it seems imperishable. The Demiurge only acted to destroy the Father,and this futility is his whole purpose in his darkness.
Then Seth leads the assembled in a Hymn of thanksgiving for the knowledge. It continues:
Remember when I walked with Adam in his old age, and we saw what appeared to be a giant. I said to him "My father. I will scout ahead!" And when I returned it had disappeared, and Adam asked me: "My son, did it disappear before you met it?" and I was silence, and all took my silence as saying "Yes".

But here's what happened:

The giant was my heavenly brother, Metatroel. He spoke to me:

"Seth, there will come a time when the servants will worship you as an Archon who became the only one of Light. But, still since they see you as an Archon, they will worship you out of fear."

I began to whimper and thought to say "What a fate for I, The Great Seth". But I calmed myself and said: "That will increase their punishment"

Metatroel replied: "I told you this so your reaction may be seen by the Demiurge and his Archons. For they gloat that you have become corrupted by humanity.
Now I will tell you that the Son and Daughter cohabited six more times, and there are six more groups of Aeons....... "
The book continues with information about the Aeons, followed by three hymns, one to Father, one to the Son, and one to the Daughter.
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Re: The History of the Greater West

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Some random thoughts on the Simonist canon:
The Greater Gospel continues after the Resurrection, with a long story of how Jesus looked like the Apostle Thomas, and sent Thomas to India, where Jesus descended and taught appearing as Thomas, and later helping Thomas in establishing an earthly ministry in the East. When Thomas dies, Jesus' voice is heard: "Until now I have been Jesus Christ, I shall return as Simon- my mission as Jesus is finished."

The Greater Letter of Peter consists of the following sections:
I. After declaring that he feels the recipients are worthy of "secrets", Peter tells of a post-Resurrection appearance of Jesus to him alone
II. He adds that the story of Andrew, who has been martyred, reached him, and while the narrative is "distracting", many of Andrew's discourses are useful in understanding secrets, and as giving secrets is the purpose of the letter, he preserves the "Riddles of Andrew"
III. Warning that while Paul converted to the truth for a while, after a certain point he became corrupted
IV. References the Greater Gospel's ending, and warns that the man claiming to be Simon the Son (who is Simon Magus) is a dangerous fraud, and an agent of the Demiurge to prevent the eventual victory of Simon the Son, and the fake Simon is a "second Daniel, confusing the Father and Demiurge to those who know the secret".
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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Re: The History of the Greater West

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The arrangement of The Gospel of Peter:
John 13:1-14:21 rewritten from Peter's point of view
Jesus says that he knows the disciples trust him, and says John 1:1-5, ibid 9-14 from his point of view
John 3 as a story told by Jesus
John 14:25-31, leaving off the end of the last verse
1 Peter 4 rewritten as being said by Jesus before the Crucifixion
Jesus says "Remember Lazarus", "Peter" inserts the story of Lazarus here
Jesus' speech continues:
1 John 1:1-5
1 Peter 2:18-21, ibid 3:1-17
2 Peter 2
1 John 3-4
2 John 7-11
John 15:1-17
1 John 2:7-11
John 15:18-17:26
Summary of Mark's Last Supper, crucifixion and Resurrection
John 21, but the "one Jesus loved" is Matthew. Jesus charges Peter to write this Gospel, says a Student of Peter's (Mark) will write the rest of his ministry from Peter's teachings, as will Matthew, and "a student [Luke] of a disciple yet to come [Paul]"
"If all I did were to be recorded, surely you know the whole word can't contain the books that would be written."
Many children make up, or begin to make up, imaginary languages. I have been at it since I could write.
-JRR Tolkien

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