TV/Movie based Conreligions

[Shemtov]

I have often, as a jokey thought experiment, thought about what if their was a civilization destroying event, and some people found a TV show and/or movie, and knew how to play it, did so, and thought that such "magic" must mean that the Show's/Franchise's "Canon" is some kind of metaphor for "Divine truths" and the writers and directors were "prophets". Just between us, what would a Church of the MCU look like? The Church of the Simpsons? The Church of Star Wars? The Church of South Park?

[elemtilas]

Well, it's already happened, even without the Pockyclypse to destroy civilisation.

There are tens of thousands worldwide who consider themselves "Jedis" for example. There has been enough revealed through canon sources to determine that is has some (fairly meagre) philosophical foundation so I see no reason why such a religion could not come about post-Pockyclyptically.

Since the phenomenon is primarily visual, I suspect that the Jedi religion is such a setting as you propose would involve a highly chivalrous and ethical code of behaviour with a fairly strong moral component. We know Jedis fight against evil and on the side of good. We know they have some kind of "books" which may well be interpreted as now being lost in the fires of the Old World. I don't think there would be much in the way of ritual per se. I suspect that Jedism in this setting will involve a lot of centering meditation, martial arts and probably will spur the (re)foundation of libraries and centers of higher learning in the post-Pockyclyptic world. Jedis are diplomats after all, negotiators and the movers of the great themes of history.

I would argue that the best bet for a truly coherent post-Pockyclyptic religion would be Iluvatarism. We do know that Tolkien at one time had the desire to make a sort of English mythology. This was abandoned as a goal, but what we do have is a body of work that is quite literally a parallel (of sorts!) to the Bible for its scope in matters religious.

We have the Creation, the stories of the actions of the great Powers (gods, if you will), stories of sacred heroes as well as the great faerie stories founded upon the mythological works. There's also loads of commentary. Plenty enough to found a religion, in some ways similar to Jedism -- struggle of good versus evil, a noble knighthood -- and plenty enough to compose a basic community philosophy.

Iluvatarism would clearly be a theological religion (unlike Jedism). There is an omnipotent Creator who gives his authority to his created beings of angelic order, the Valar, through whom the physical work of creation is accomplished. We know that Iluvatar is all good and created his world to be good; and that evil comes into the picture through pride of self and abuse of free will. We know that there were lesser angelic orders (the Maiar) and messengers (the Istari) and holy / saintly people (Elves and especially Galadriel). We know that heroically good people sought to overthrow Morgoth (the original bringer of evil & disharmony) and later his servant Sauron.

Ritually, we glean very little. We glean one ritual of the Numenoreans (grace before meals, acknowledging the West and One beyond) and we know that in Numenor there was a sacred mountain where some kind of ritual occurred. We know there are holidays of some maybe quasi-religious significance. We know that Hobbits are pretty darn close to being the ideal Christian kingdom without being overtly Christian. Very possibly, Iluvatarism would consist of the singing of hymns, there already being some exemplars in veneration of at least one Vala. I'd like to think that Iluvatar worship would occur within woodland clearings and hilltops where folk of good will could gather.

[Shemtov]

Well, it's already happened, even without the Pockyclypse to destroy civilisation.

There are tens of thousands worldwide who consider themselves "Jedis" for example. There has been enough revealed through canon sources to determine that is has some (fairly meagre) philosophical foundation so I see no reason why such a religion could not come about post-Pockyclyptically.

Since the phenomenon is primarily visual, I suspect that the Jedi religion is such a setting as you propose would involve a highly chivalrous and ethical code of behaviour with a fairly strong moral component. We know Jedis fight against evil and on the side of good. We know they have some kind of "books" which may well be interpreted as now being lost in the fires of the Old World. I don't think there would be much in the way of ritual per se. I suspect that Jedism in this setting will involve a lot of centering meditation, martial arts and probably will spur the (re)foundation of libraries and centers of higher learning in the post-Pockyclyptic world. Jedis are diplomats after all, negotiators and the movers of the great themes of history.

I would argue that the best bet for a truly coherent post-Pockyclyptic religion would be Iluvatarism. We do know that Tolkien at one time had the desire to make a sort of English mythology. This was abandoned as a goal, but what we do have is a body of work that is quite literally a parallel (of sorts!) to the Bible for its scope in matters religious.

We have the Creation, the stories of the actions of the great Powers (gods, if you will), stories of sacred heroes as well as the great faerie stories founded upon the mythological works. There's also loads of commentary. Plenty enough to found a religion, in some ways similar to Jedism -- struggle of good versus evil, a noble knighthood -- and plenty enough to compose a basic community philosophy.

Iluvatarism would clearly be a theological religion (unlike Jedism). There is an omnipotent Creator who gives his authority to his created beings of angelic order, the Valar, through whom the physical work of creation is accomplished. We know that Iluvatar is all good and created his world to be good; and that evil comes into the picture through pride of self and abuse of free will. We know that there were lesser angelic orders (the Maiar) and messengers (the Istari) and holy / saintly people (Elves and especially Galadriel). We know that heroically good people sought to overthrow Morgoth (the original bringer of evil & disharmony) and later his servant Sauron.

Ritually, we glean very little. We glean one ritual of the Numenoreans (grace before meals, acknowledging the West and One beyond) and we know that in Numenor there was a sacred mountain where some kind of ritual occurred. We know there are holidays of some maybe quasi-religious significance. We know that Hobbits are pretty darn close to being the ideal Christian kingdom without being overtly Christian. Very possibly, Iluvatarism would consist of the singing of hymns, there already being some exemplars in veneration of at least one Vala. I'd like to think that Iluvatar worship would occur within woodland clearings and hilltops where folk of good will could gather.

S.M. Sterling has explored a post-apocalyptic Iluvatarism in his Emberverse series, The Dúnedain Rangers, who believe in Tolkein's work as "Historical Scripture", and require all devotees to know Sindarin and Quenya, and see themselves as descendants of Gondor. The difference is that I'm proposing a Conreligion were people know the author exists as author, but see the TV show/Movie as a "Metaphorical Visual Scriptures". This doesn't even have to be post-apocalyptic, someone could just claim a work was made under the guise of fiction, but those responsible are really "Prophets". For example, I have jokingly made South Parkism, the idea that after the IP is PD, someone claims Stone and Parker as "Prophets" and all episodes of South Park, and the movie to be "Metaphorical Visual Scripture". They would believe that everyone has a "Kyle" "Stan" "Kenny" and "Cartman" "Part of the Personality" and by studying SP one could "Balance them properly". The other characters are "Other people", thus the scriptures show human interaction. One does not read scripture, one watches it. Worship consists of saying the show's catchphrases and replacing Christmas with "Mr. Hankey Day" Or "Poop Day". Theology would be "all deities are true" based on the banned episodes, where Jesus coexists with Krishna and Buddha. Yes, it's absurd, but that's kind of my point: these putative religions would be so by Modern Religious standards, but exist in a future culture where that makes sense.

[elemtilas]

S.M. Sterling has explored a post-apocalyptic Iluvatarism in his Emberverse series, The Dúnedain Rangers, who believe in Tolkein's work as "Historical Scripture", and require all devotees to know Sindarin and Quenya, and see themselves as descendants of Gondor.

I have the feeling that in an actual post-Pockyclyptic setting, this would be the more likely outcome.

The difference is that I'm proposing a Conreligion were people know the author exists as author, but see the TV show/Movie as a "Metaphorical Visual Scriptures". This doesn't even have to be post-apocalyptic,

Indeed. The situation then would, as I mentioned, probably be much like Jedism. People know it's a movie but dress up like Jedi anyway. Cosplay gone pseudo theological. All the more likely to be a kind of cosplay / mystery cult kind of thing if they know the work is fictional and there is a strong continuity with literary history. What would actually come of it in this reduced kind of scenario: I'd argue that a small group of like minded individuals might play along for a while; two or three might take it seriously enough for it to become a small cult. If the ringleader is dumb enough to try and "hunt some Orcs" then it will end as badly as the hyper-D&D stories have ended. Otherwise, people move on. Was fun while it lasted, but it's cosplay and anyway, there's a new game to join with.

someone could just claim a work was made under the guise of fiction, but those responsible are really "Prophets".

Possible! Tolkien himself rather went out of the way to invent the pseudo-historical text motif after all! It would be relatively easy to convince oneself that he really had found the Redbook of Westmarch and, in order to publish it, had to pretend like it was his own fiction...

For example, I have jokingly made South Parkism, the idea that after the IP is PD, someone claims Stone and Parker as "Prophets" and all episodes of South Park, and the movie to be "Metaphorical Visual Scripture". They would believe that everyone has a "Kyle" "Stan" "Kenny" and "Cartman" "Part of the Personality" and by studying SP one could "Balance them properly". The other characters are "Other people", thus the scriptures show human interaction. One does not read scripture, one watches it. Worship consists of saying the show's catchphrases and replacing Christmas with "Mr. Hankey Day" Or "Poop Day". Theology would be "all deities are true" based on the banned episodes, where Jesus coexists with Krishna and Buddha. Yes, it's absurd, but that's kind of my point: these putative religions would be so by Modern Religious standards, but exist in a future culture where that makes sense.

I suppose kind of like how Jedism exists. And could exist in such a scenario.

On reviewing, I really don't think the scenario would have much traction in an ordinary 23rd century where there has not been some kind of total social upheaval. For the simple fact that South Park will have long been relegated to the footnotes of antique video entertainment and anyone who cares to trawl the depths of Netweb can find the libraries where late 20th century video archives are kept. They can also access the early 21st century commentaries and histories of the video arts; as well as 22nd and 23rd century scholarship on those works.

If anyone invented a religion out Southpark, along the lines you suggest, I doubt it would actually become a religion. It might be like someone making a religion out of the adventures of the Jolly Green Giant. Definitely absurd! For a religion to be born out of something cultural like this, I think, it would really require something deep. Something that draws the theological and religious nature of Man. Jedism and Iluvatarism, in my opinion could actually become real religions for that very reason.

Southparkism or DCComicism, for the same reason, I think can never become any more than a game or pretend religion. An absurd thought experiment. A game of sorts. Perhaps might be attached to a social club of some kind.

All that said, I think the fun of it is the challenge of taking these materials and seeing what one can come up with! I don't know Southpark at all except by name, but you seem to have described it well enough.

Any other religions of this sort out there?

One that strikes obviously is a religion based on the philosophy of peace & sharing & compassion espoused by the Mice of Redwall Abbey. As I recall from the books, there is an actual Abbot or Abbess or monks of some kind that inhabit the Abbey, so there is obviously a basis for an invented religion. Outwardly, it might look something like Christian or Buddhistic monasticism. A pseudo-scripture could be cobbled together from teachings of the Mice monks. They venerate Martin the Warrior and there is clearly some kind of warrior cult among the Mice -- they do need defending against those evil Stoats and Rats and Foxes and other Vermin!

I think other examples could be just about any fantasy movie you'd care to name. There are usually enough Pagan elements (in movies like Mists of Avalon or Conan or the Dark Kingdom) that some kind of religion could be invented based on them.

If we wish to expand a little, the work of the first lord of the rings, Wagner, could easily be fashioned into a broadly Germanic invented religion. There are movie adaptations and of course the original five hundred hour opera to end all operas.

Godzilla movies and anime / manga movies also strike one as good fodder; as does whatever George Martin's stories is called (I know it's a tele programme).

[eldin raigmore]

You guys do know, don’t you, that many of the Chinese gods were originally heroes/heroines of novels?

[elemtilas]

You guys do know, don’t you, that many of the Chinese gods were originally heroes/heroines of novels?

Life imitates art.

[Shemtov]

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Southparkism or DCComicism, for the same reason, I think can never become any more than a game or pretend religion. An absurd thought experiment. A game of sorts. Perhaps might be attached to a social club of some kind.

See, I don't mean conreligions from fiction, but imagining people not understanding why the work was popular now, and concluding that though most thought it secular fiction, it's really a religious fiction;a metaphor, a series of parables; but people were attracted to it by subconscious realization of the religious nature. That's what I meant by prophets, the idea that the authors were making a religious metaphor, but at the time, people couldn't have gotten that, so they presented it as art so the future will understand