Lehola Galaxy Lifespeeding & Resulting Discussion [Split]

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elemtilas
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Re: Lehola Galaxy Lifespeeding & Resulting Discussion [Split]

Post by elemtilas »

Some loose ends needing tying.
Khemehekis wrote: 01 Aug 2019 07:54 A very Daine perspective, that!

Wow!

Is that surprising?

Not really, knowing the Daine, but I'm always surprised to be told (by you) that some thought process of mine is Daine.
[:)]

Warms the heart, catching you off guard that way!

And I'm not sure how a moderate Democrat or a Republican would respond to my point about the stock market and the 18/16 discrepancy. I'm guessing that the Daine age for playing the stock market is higher than their age of consent (if the Daine even have a stock market).
No, Denê economies work rather differently. I'm not even sure if there is any kind of analogue to the stock market in Yeola. I know that money exists, and that (at least partially) money economies exist and that a form of banking exists. I know that instruments like hard cash (metal coins & stacks) exist, along with soft cash (paper) and also interest bearing cash-like instruments such as bearer bonds, treasury notes & credit notes exist. I don't think I've ever come across any mention of stocks, though.

It is of interest to note, that, while Denê might not be into stocks, those in Auntimoany are very interested in bearer bonds and treasury notes. Although it's illegal for them to hold Government obligations, this hasn't stopped the various Houses from acquiring these things. If only the Treasury knew how much actual money they owed to the Hidden Queen, they'd probably wet their britches.

Anyway, more like "if the Denê even have an age of consent" ;) but I digress! If there were a stock market, I'd hazard the guess that it would fall to the queen to determine if her clan or House would engage with it or not. It would then fall to her to seek for some suitably mature, intelligent, & crafty person to try and beat it. My guess is they probably wouldn't. The whole system is just too risky, there are no laws, really, to regulate such a thing and it would probably collapse all on its own without any Denê intervention at all. And just as well! Too dangerous a thing for Men to be messing around with!
This reads sort of as an Ithkuilesque speculation on how human cultures could function. And it all seems to make sense together.

If only they dìd work more that way...!
And that sounds so much like the remark of an INFP worldbuilder.[/quote]

[:D]
And once when my sister was quite small, our family was reading a Smurfs book at beftime. She wanted to know how many Smurfs were pictured in the book, but they pretty much all look alike and so she likely counted a number of the same Smurfs multiple times. After nineteen Smurfs, Liz got to twenty . . . then twenty-one, twenty-two, twenty-three, twenty-four, twenty-five, twenty-six, twenty-seven, twenty-eight, twenty-nine, twenty-ten, twenty-eleven, twenty-twelve, twenty-thirteen . . .

French(-ish) after a fashion.

Yes! Like soixante-seize for seventy-six, or soixante-vingt-neuf for eighty-nine.
That had me stumped for a while.

Then it struck me: yeah! trois-vignts-seize ~~ quatre-vingts-neuf!

Maybe a bit odd --- I often, when having to count lots of little things, count them in French.
Well, I remember one time I was the subject of a tirade on the Internet by a Republican INFP. This was on the Howe & Strauss board, no less.

Oo, a proper tirade?

Is there some official formula for a "proper" tirade? If so, I'm unaware of it.
Yes. Given that your interargumentor was a Republican, a proper tirade should at some point call you out for being a Communist. Like how when it's the other way around, versa tiranda, the Republican gets called out for being a Nazi.

Not very sporting in either direction, I'll warrant, but that's tirades for you.
:snif: Sounds like Men to me. Daine are what give the medical colleges all the organs in bottles, thaumically activated anatomy skeletons and vivisection subjects.

Mind you, their donations are not voluntary.

How truly horrible. You know how I feel about non-consensual medical procedures . . .
Indeed.

Image

You get a nice view of this former Tana's thre-fingered wing-hands anyway! Not that that's much consolation for being doped senseless, having a thick bronze pin shoved through your head and then being dipped into a vat of corrosive licheworms while cunning spells of dwimcraft seize control of your bones. All that while you're still, ah --- momentarily, I assure you! --- alive.

In retrintrospection, this is probably a kinder fate than the poor sods that end up in the vivisection theatre. Their agony is prolonged to the greatest extent possible. Especially for a Tana caught early in the term, when the medical students are just doing skin and muscles and superficial studies. Most Denê, even the strongest willed, can't take much more than to survive much past the first month of the first term. The record, I believe, was close to ten weeks. Poor bugger developped a kind of resistance to the muscle relaxant concoction they dope their subjects with. His constant twitching and moaning got to be too much for the students. They just couldn't see anything clearly!, so the poor fellow got unceremoniously shifted to the practice surgery theatre where he died after a few days of too many bits being cut out.
Pretty much all of the parties are on board with the protect-the-environment agenda (despite the extreme techification of Bt!a), because that's the way it's been since the planet had to come to terms with climate change long ago. So a Green-type party would be superfluous.
Good.

Dare I say: that's very Denê of them! [;)] Strong environmentalists, them.
(2-year old) children show no interest in (nor comprehension of) politics...

Understood. Well, I like 2 year old B!tachis already! No interest in or comprehension of politics! If only they could mould their entire society along those lines...

::Smiles:: Well, without government, they couldn't have confronted the monster of climate change. Which leads me to my concerns about the rigged debates in the Democratic primary: too many centrists Democrats like Joe Biden and John Delaney aren't taking the threat of climate change seriously; they're thinking like corporate-controlled politicians. As we saw with Hillary in 2016, New Democrats are afraid to be the Party of Big Ideas. And their cynicism about what's politically possible is putting the future of our one and only planet in jeopardy.
Without government, and all it entails, they probably wouldn't have been in the sophont-exacerbated aspects of climate change anyway. They'd only have the normal planet-mediated change to deal with, and even a government is powerless in the face of that challenge!

Re Dems. It's probably because they are corporate controlled politicians.

And you're right: they don't do Big (or Good) Ideas very well. But neither does the other side. Main problem: this isn't a political issue (it's not like the evolution of the planet's climate only affects some people but not others!), yet there doesn't seem, as yet, to be any way to meet the challenges without involving the Devil's handmaidens.

Maybe this pandemic thing will open up some possibilities. People are now becoming much more aware (again) of their social nature and communal existence, and how profoundly this can be affected by outside forces and how profound an effect our choices can have on that outside force. I am continuously encouraged to see how ordinary non-political and non-stunt-protester people of all demographics just organically materialise into a force to meet the challenge head on. This awakening new communitarianism (which is really just the 21st century resetting in several key ways to Way Things Used To Be (TM)) could be the force that ends up dealing with the man-made aspects of climate change.
These Greys drink blood, which fills both their food and water requirements. Such bodily fluids as phlegm, saliva and semen are enjoyed as snacks.

They must have some interesting milking machines to get rabbit snot...

Well, with rabbits, it's mostly the blood and corticosterine. Water buffalo snot is something, though! At least if you're Bt!achi!
Reminds me a bit of the practice of galactothurgy in The World. The notion that different kinds of milk have different fundamental properties and that drinking the milk of, say, a boar can instill mad recklessness, or that of a Daine can increase one's courage.

As for semen, there is a practice among pregnant Turghun who will drink semen. They believe semen will nourish the child. I don't think their mates would complain too much at being milked!
Lovely story! And here's a true story of mine: I dreamt I was reading a review of Kankonian, and the reviewer noted, in analyzing how beautiful Kankonian phonaesthetics were, that the word for bar (in its musical sense) was varoivu. I didn't remember that! When I woke up, I checked, discovered that Kankonian did not yet have a word for "bar", and made varoivu the word for bar (in its musical sense).
Excellent!

Re the tween oriented story I mentioned working on last time we spoke: that's now done & published! Happily, all my 11 & 12 year old test readers enjoyed it, though, naturally, the 12 year old glossopoet complained that I neglected to offer a pronunciation guide for the Queranarran (& other language) words, so I added that before publication.

Re the Sexuality of Denê, a topic I haven't discussed publicly except for some basics, I've been thinking a lot about that part of our earlier conversation. You had lamented "No, I think what's really a travesty is that none of the Daine are bisexual! We need bisexual Daine, lesbian Daine, gay Daine, asexual Daine, transgender Daine, genderqueer Daine! Oh, and please make one of your Daine agendered or bigendered!..." So I have something approaching an answer now, well, have had it for a while actually. But before I go there into that bear's den, I'll ask you for your immediate, gut reaction. What's going on here...if you saw these two fellows on the street, what would be your first impression?
Spoiler:
Image
Khemehekis
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Re: Lehola Galaxy Lifespeeding & Resulting Discussion [Split]

Post by Khemehekis »

elemtilas wrote: 14 Apr 2020 01:24
Yes! Like soixante-seize for seventy-six, or soixante-vingt-neuf for eighty-nine.
That had me stumped for a while.

Then it struck me: yeah! trois-vignts-seize ~~ quatre-vingts-neuf!
Yeah . . . I think you use either "soixante" or "trois-vingts" depending on what part of the French-speaking world you're from.
Maybe a bit odd --- I often, when having to count lots of little things, count them in French.
Eau, ouaou!
Is there some official formula for a "proper" tirade? If so, I'm unaware of it.
Yes. Given that your interargumentor was a Republican, a proper tirade should at some point call you out for being a Communist. Like how when it's the other way around, versa tiranda, the Republican gets called out for being a Nazi.

Not very sporting in either direction, I'll warrant, but that's tirades for you.
I see. Godwin's law (and McCarthyism). This INFP Republican (his name was Jake) did not call me a Communist, but he once called Eric Alan Meece (a Boomer leftist astrologer and published author) a hippie when he was slamming Eric. He was also very defensive of the Howe & Strauss theory!
Image
YOU drew that picture and did the lettering? Impressive!
In retrintrospection, this is probably a kinder fate than the poor sods that end up in the vivisection theatre. Their agony is prolonged to the greatest extent possible. Especially for a Tana caught early in the term, when the medical students are just doing skin and muscles and superficial studies. Most Denê, even the strongest willed, can't take much more than to survive much past the first month of the first term. The record, I believe, was close to ten weeks. Poor bugger developped a kind of resistance to the muscle relaxant concoction they dope their subjects with. His constant twxtching and moaning got to be too much for the students. They just couldn't see anything clearly!, so the poor fellow got unceremoniously shifted to the practice surgery theatre where he died after a few days of too many bits being cut out.
That sounds not just like malpractice, but like murder! So the then-queen of the Daine wasn't able to stop this from happening?
Pretty much all of the parties are on board with the protect-the-environment agenda (despite the extreme techification of Bt!a), because that's the way it's been since the planet had to come to terms with climate change long ago. So a Green-type party would be superfluous.
Good.

Dare I say: that's very Denê of them!
Aaaaaaaaand you compared something/someone to the Dené yet again! [<3]
Without government, and all it entails, they probably wouldn't have been in the sophont-exacerbated aspects of climate change anyway. They'd only have the normal planet-mediated change to deal with, and even a government is powerless in the face of that challenge!

Re Dems. It's probably because they are corporate controlled politicians.

And you're right: they don't do Big (or Good) Ideas very well. But neither does the other side. Main problem: this isn't a political issue (it's not like the evolution of the planet's climate only affects some people but not others!), yet there doesn't seem, as yet, to be any way to meet the challenges without involving the Devil's handmaidens.
Well that's true. No government, no industrial revolution. We'd be like Le Guin's Kesh! (The alternative, of course, would be being like her Condor People, who did indeed have an authoritarian, sexist, militaristic government.)
Maybe this pandemic thing will open up some possibilities. People are now becoming much more aware (again) of their social nature and communal existence, and how profoundly this can be affected by outside forces and how profound an effect our choices can have on that outside force. I am continuously encouraged to see how ordinary non-political and non-stunt-protester people of all demographics just organically materialise into a force to meet the challenge head on. This awakening new communitarianism (which is really just the 21st century resetting in several key ways to Way Things Used To Be (TM)) could be the force that ends up dealing with the man-made aspects of climate change.
That's a great thought, Elemtilas. I'm thinking the COVID-19 crisis has to potential to bring people together in a way 9/11 could not.
These Greys drink blood, which fills both their food and water requirements. Such bodily fluids as phlegm, saliva and semen are enjoyed as snacks.
They must have some interesting milking machines to get rabbit snot...
Well, with rabbits, it's mostly the blood and corticosterine. Water buffalo snot is something, though! At least if you're Bt!achi!
Reminds me a bit of the practice of galactothurgy in The World. The notion that different kinds of milk have different fundamental properties and that drinking the milk of, say, a boar can instill mad recklessness, or that of a Daine can increase one's courage.

As for semen, there is a practice among pregnant Turghun who will drink semen. They believe semen will nourish the child. I don't think their mates would complain too much at being milked!
Galactothurgy . . . a brilliant concept!

I drank my own semen once, and it tasted much like fried eggs. I could see a Bt!achi drinking semen taken from a human man whom s/he had "sampled".

Bt!a and other planets with the Grey bioswath also have many archaeocete descendants -- the Dover Demon, but also the saqualma (an archaeocete bat-analogue, known on Kankonia as well as planets with Greys), the spiny-backed karimiks, the echidna-like babut, the tapir-nosed tabmor, the spidery-armed araki, the baboon-like mamporion, the hhedron (halfway between a Grey and a Dover Demon), the crest-headed hhadiks, the penguin-like gaudopo, the diatryma-like vaturaq, and the rabbit-like fopo. As these are from the same suborder of cetaceans as Greys, the Greys normally eo not bother these creatures -- it would have the same repugnance to them as a human eating a monkey or a gorilla.
Re the tween oriented story I mentioned working on last time we spoke: that's now done & published! Happily, all my 11 & 12 year old test readers enjoyed it, though, naturally, the 12 year old glossopoet complained that I neglected to offer a pronunciation guide for the Queranarran (& other language) words, so I added that before publication.
Happy to hear the news! A short novel set in the World! [:D] So Chris Brown is you, or is that your brother?
Re the Sexuality of Denê, a topic I haven't discussed publicly except for some basics, I've been thinking a lot about that part of our earlier conversation. You had lamented "No, I think what's really a travesty is that none of the Daine are bisexual! We need bisexual Daine, lesbian Daine, gay Daine, asexual Daine, transgender Daine, genderqueer Daine! Oh, and please make one of your Daine agendered or bigendered!..." So I have something approaching an answer now, well, have had it for a while actually. But before I go there into that bear's den, I'll ask you for your immediate, gut reaction. What's going on here...if you saw these two fellows on the street, what would be your first impression?
Spoiler:
Image
Ooh, their tongues are together! They seem to be French-kissing, so I'd say they're in love! [<3] [<3] [<3]
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,666 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Lehola Galaxy Lifespeeding & Resulting Discussion [Split]

Post by elemtilas »

Khemehekis wrote: 16 Apr 2020 02:35 I see. Godwin's law (and McCarthyism). This INFP Republican (his name was Jake) did not call me a Communist, but he once called Eric Alan Meece (a Boomer leftist astrologer and published author) a hippie when he was slamming Eric. He was also very defensive of the Howe & Strauss theory!
Hmm. Maybe not a proper tirade, then! A false, second rate tirade!
YOU drew that picture and did the lettering? Impressive!
I drew the picture! The font is 1543 Humane Jensen.

Except for a few commissioned pieces, every image from the World that I've shared is one I've drawn.
In retrintrospection, this is probably a kinder fate than the poor sods that end up in the vivisection theatre. Their agony is prolonged to the greatest extent possible. Especially for a Tana caught early in the term, when the medical students are just doing skin and muscles and superficial studies. Most Denê, even the strongest willed, can't take much more than to survive much past the first month of the first term. The record, I believe, was close to ten weeks. Poor bugger developped a kind of resistance to the muscle relaxant concoction they dope their subjects with. His constant twxtching and moaning got to be too much for the students. They just couldn't see anything clearly!, so the poor fellow got unceremoniously shifted to the practice surgery theatre where he died after a few days of too many bits being cut out.
That sounds not just like malpractice, but like murder! So the then-queen of the Daine wasn't able to stop this from happening?
Your malpractice is just another day in the great cities of the Empire...

It's all quite legal, really. Universities can send out their headhunters to bring back specimens for research purposes. Not Werres (Men), mind. That's would be immoral!

As for stopping it, well, that would be difficult for a number of reasons. People do disappear on the streets, you know. Ordinary events like slaver gangs, press gangs, ordinary crime. One of the tragedies of sharing one's country with Men. Denê of course really try to look out for one another, but these things continue to happen.

If the laws could be changed, that would certainly help. Right now, there are better laws protecting the rights of the unalive than there are for Denê in the realm of Men.


Well that's true. No government, no industrial revolution. We'd be like Le Guin's Kesh! (The alternative, of course, would be being like her Condor People, who did indeed have an authoritarian, sexist, militaristic government.)
They both have their shortcomings. Some quite horrific.
Maybe this pandemic thing will open up some possibilities. People are now becoming much more aware (again) of their social nature and communal existence, and how profoundly this can be affected by outside forces and how profound an effect our choices can have on that outside force. I am continuously encouraged to see how ordinary non-political and non-stunt-protester people of all demographics just organically materialise into a force to meet the challenge head on. This awakening new communitarianism (which is really just the 21st century resetting in several key ways to Way Things Used To Be (TM)) could be the force that ends up dealing with the man-made aspects of climate change.
That's a great thought, Elemtilas. I'm thinking the COVID-19 crisis has to potential to bring people together in a way 9/11 could not.
That was just a blip. In retrospect. A tragic blip, but still a blip. It was a single terrorist attack, that in reality didn't really cause much damage or have any widespread effects unless you lived in NYC or frequently travelled by air. A big hurricane does more damage and devastates more lives, and we get those every year around the world. The war following, I think got some folk's patriotic blood pumping, but I think ended up being more a waste than a triumph.

This pandemic, solely because of the virulence of the virus & the rapidity of really bad symptoms is different. The response was certainly different, and I think only future history can inform us whether the response was too much or too little. Or just wrong. Whatever the case may be, its effects are existential in nature. The old culture, in many respects, is being re-formed. It remains to be seen whether socioeconomic recovery or collapse will be the way of it going forward.

Yes, there is great potential for bringing people together again; it will remain to be seen whether people live up to their potential!
Bt!a and other planets with the Grey bioswath also have many archaeocete descendants -- the Dover Demon, but also the saqualma (an archaeocete bat-analogue, known on Kankonia as well as planets with Greys), the spiny-backed karimiks, the echidna-like babut, the tapir-nosed tabmor, the spidery-armed araki, the baboon-like mamporion, the hhedron (halfway between a Grey and a Dover Demon), the crest-headed hhadiks, the penguin-like gaudopo, the diatryma-like vaturaq, and the rabbit-like fopo. As these are from the same suborder of cetaceans as Greys, the Greys normally eo not bother these creatures -- it would have the same repugnance to them as a human eating a monkey or a gorilla.
Isocannibalistic. Yet people eat monkeys, chimpanzees and gorillas.

Re the Sexuality of Denê, a topic I haven't discussed publicly except for some basics, I've been thinking a lot about that part of our earlier conversation. You had lamented "No, I think what's really a travesty is that none of the Daine are bisexual! We need bisexual Daine, lesbian Daine, gay Daine, asexual Daine, transgender Daine, genderqueer Daine! Oh, and please make one of your Daine agendered or bigendered!..." So I have something approaching an answer now, well, have had it for a while actually. But before I go there into that bear's den, I'll ask you for your immediate, gut reaction. What's going on here...if you saw these two fellows on the street, what would be your first impression?
Spoiler:
Image
Ooh, their tongues are together! They seem to be French-kissing, so I'd say they're in love! [<3] [<3] [<3]
*sigh*

Men are all alike! Seeing the surfaces of things and never the depths.

Take a look here. Yes, they love each other very much, but tell me what you think! I still hold that they aren't human (or Werreish) and don't conform to human norms or expectations.
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Re: Lehola Galaxy Lifespeeding & Resulting Discussion [Split]

Post by Khemehekis »

elemtilas wrote: 16 Apr 2020 11:42
YOU drew that picture and did the lettering? Impressive!
I drew the picture! The font is 1543 Humane Jensen.
Great artwork! And it's not too surprising that they would have such a font. They have fonts that look like Dick and Jane primers, or sixties posters, or broken "grunge" fonts (I think the last one is called Ice Age), after all.
Except for a few commissioned pieces, every image from the World that I've shared is one I've drawn.
[+1]
Your malpractice is just another day in the great cities of the Empire...

It's all quite legal, really. Universities can send out their headhunters to bring back specimens for research purposes. Not Werres (Men), mind. That's would be immoral!
Heh, that reminds me of Micamo's quote in the How NOT to Conworld thread, stating that SF and fantasy races need to be somewhat human, so the leader will understand if your humans are oppressing Elves with the excuse that they're "not human", but it would be harder to identify with the oppressed victims if, instead of Elves, they were sentient pools of acid.
As for stopping it, well, that would be difficult for a number of reasons. People do disappear on the streets, you know. Ordinary events like slaver gangs, press gangs, ordinary crime. One of the tragedies of sharing one's country with Men. Denê of course really try to look out for one another, but these things continue to happen.

If the laws could be changed, that would certainly help. Right now, there are better laws protecting the rights of the unalive than there are for Denê in the realm of Men.
How sad. Your Daine in the Werre world are like the Jews in Ancient Egypt.
That's a great thought, Elemtilas. I'm thinking the COVID-19 crisis has to potential to bring people together in a way 9/11 could not.
That was just a blip. In retrospect. A tragic blip, but still a blip. It was a single terrorist attack, that in reality didn't really cause much damage or have any widespread effects unless you lived in NYC or frequently travelled by air. A big hurricane does more damage and devastates more lives, and we get those every year around the world. The war following, I think got some folk's patriotic blood pumping, but I think ended up being more a waste than a triumph.
9/11 was not that important an event to me (even though I wrote a song about it!) -- it was an excuse for older generations to show blind deference to a president with a DUI. The whole country and concept of being American became this giant sacred cow for my elders after September, 11, 2001. I didn't read into it anything about how America needs to change . . . except, perhaps, that America should stop relying so much on petroleum.
Bt!a and other planets with the Grey bioswath also have many archaeocete descendants -- the Dover Demon, but also the saqualma (an archaeocete bat-analogue, known on Kankonia as well as planets with Greys), the spiny-backed karimiks, the echidna-like babut, the tapir-nosed tabmor, the spidery-armed araki, the baboon-like mamporion, the hhedron (halfway between a Grey and a Dover Demon), the crest-headed hhadiks, the penguin-like gaudopo, the diatryma-like vaturaq, and the rabbit-like fopo. As these are from the same suborder of cetaceans as Greys, the Greys normally eo not bother these creatures -- it would have the same repugnance to them as a human eating a monkey or a gorilla.
Isocannibalistic. Yet people eat monkeys, chimpanzees and gorillas.
True. Bushmeat!

And "isocannibalistic" is a great word. Where did you pick it up?

There are some words in LIE that describe variations on cannibalism. Xenophagy is when one species of sapient eats another, like a human eating a Grey or a reptoid eating a Domehead. Secondary cannibalism is when a person eats an animal that ate a person, like if someone were to eat pork from a pig that had been fed humanflesh.
Re the Sexuality of Denê, a topic I haven't discussed publicly except for some basics, I've been thinking a lot about that part of our earlier conversation. You had lamented "No, I think what's really a travesty is that none of the Daine are bisexual! We need bisexual Daine, lesbian Daine, gay Daine, asexual Daine, transgender Daine, genderqueer Daine! Oh, and please make one of your Daine agendered or bigendered!..." So I have something approaching an answer now, well, have had it for a while actually. But before I go there into that bear's den, I'll ask you for your immediate, gut reaction. What's going on here...if you saw these two fellows on the street, what would be your first impression?
Spoiler:
Image
Ooh, their tongues are together! They seem to be French-kissing, so I'd say they're in love! [<3] [<3] [<3]
*sigh*

Men are all alike! Seeing the surfaces of things and never the depths.

Take a look here. Yes, they love each other very much, but tell me what you think! I still hold that they aren't human (or Werreish) and don't conform to human norms or expectations.
I see. So the eros-storge-agape distinction takes a different semantic division among the Daine. For Daine, the sexual and the platonic are blurred. Reproduction is reproduction, which by its very nature has to be heterosexual, but anything else isn't clearly either sexual or platonic. Well, at least maybe some things are clearly platonic.

I can understand, since I am a virgin, yet I have very close friendships with a number of people of both genders whom I love to the ends of the Earth, friendships that involve hugging and cuddling. One of my best friends is a working-class middle-aged straight man who feels uncomfortable with hugging another guy. We used to hug a lot, but as we've both gotten older, the hugs have become more and more infrequent. It's sad, because those were truly some great, prolonged embraces I've had with him.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,666 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Lehola Galaxy Lifespeeding & Resulting Discussion [Split]

Post by elemtilas »

Khemehekis wrote: 28 Apr 2020 07:26
elemtilas wrote: 16 Apr 2020 11:42
YOU drew that picture and did the lettering? Impressive!
I drew the picture! The font is 1543 Humane Jensen.
Great artwork!
Thanks!
Your malpractice is just another day in the great cities of the Empire...

It's all quite legal, really. Universities can send out their headhunters to bring back specimens for research purposes. Not Werres (Men), mind. That's would be immoral!
Heh, that reminds me of Micamo's quote in the How NOT to Conworld thread, stating that SF and fantasy races need to be somewhat human, so the reader will understand if your humans are oppressing Elves with the excuse that they're "not human", but it would be harder to identify with the oppressed victims if, instead of Elves, they were sentient pools of acid.
A curious artifact of human nature. And why precisely we need, while perhaps not sentient pools of acid per se, at least aliens that are actually alien. They don't have to look terribly different. But they should bé different. Inside. Otherwise it's just a world of hats and the mad hatters who hate them.
As for stopping it, well, that would be difficult for a number of reasons. People do disappear on the streets, you know. Ordinary events like slaver gangs, press gangs, ordinary crime. One of the tragedies of sharing one's country with Men. Denê of course really try to look out for one another, but these things continue to happen.

If the laws could be changed, that would certainly help. Right now, there are better laws protecting the rights of the unalive than there are for Denê in the realm of Men.
How sad. Your Daine in the Werre world are like the Jews in Ancient Egypt.
What's sad is that it isn't even the Werre's world...

Auntimoany at least is something of an aberration in having such a large population of Denê resident within a strongly Werreish polity.

The Men will have to mind their thorns and edhs, however. Or soon enough a vengeful spirit will rise up in the East as it is doing in the West.
That was just a blip. In retrospect. A tragic blip, but still a blip. It was a single terrorist attack, that in reality didn't really cause much damage or have any widespread effects unless you lived in NYC or frequently travelled by air. A big hurricane does more damage and devastates more lives, and we get those every year around the world. The war following, I think got some folk's patriotic blood pumping, but I think ended up being more a waste than a triumph.
9/11 was not that important an event to me (even though I wrote a song about it!) -- it was an excuse for older generations to show blind deference to a president with a DUI.
To be fair, this is not without precedent. After all, we still venerate the Kennedys! And JFK, at least, had a bit worse a record than a mere DUI!

I honestly didn't pay a lot of attention to it, so my perception may be somewhat skewe(re)d. I do recall a lot of flag waving and patriotic song singing and a general sense of warmongery. Always a bad combination, because the mind hadn't had time to engage with either Faith or Reason. People at the time compared the bombing with Pearl Harbour and the proposed war with WWII. Let's not forget that Hitler had a good 15 to 20 years of run up before a single shot was ever fired in his direction. And we never even went after Stalin or Mao, and they were far worse than Hitler! I think the whole Middle East war was a) rushed into without any kind of culture shaping or nation building plans & deffo no exit strategy (aren't we still there!?) and b) was little more than an excuse to finish the Middle East war of the previous decade.
The whole country and concept of being American became this giant sacred cow for my elders after September, 11, 2001. I didn't read into it anything about how America needs to change . . . except, perhaps, that America should stop relying so much on petroleum.
And yet it was folks roughly out age who went off, flags waving!

Concur about oil. As for change... I don't recall anything particular about how America needed to "change" at that time. To what are you referring? Refresh my memory!
And "isocannibalistic" is a great word. Where did you pick it up?
I made it up of course!
There are some words in LIE that describe variations on cannibalism. Xenophagy is when one species of sapient eats another, like a human eating a Grey or a reptoid eating a Domehead. Secondary cannibalism is when a person eats an animal that ate a person, like if someone were to eat pork from a pig that had been fed humanflesh.
I'd say isocannibalism is a form of xenophagy. After all, if it turned out that that pool of sentient acid were essentially ketchup (acetic acid), we'd simply bottle the stuff and sell it as an "exotic treat" from a far away world. Xenophagy, but isocannibalism implies a similarity of form, as in isomorph and similarity of place, isotope. Where chimps & gorillas & humans share basically the same shape and come from the same place.

I think if a human were to eat a Grey or a Vulcan, I'm not sure I'd call that isocannibalism per se.

I see. So the eros-storge-agape distinction takes a different semantic division among the Daine. For Daine, the sexual and the platonic are blurred. Reproduction is reproduction, which by its very nature has to be heterosexual, but anything else isn't clearly either sexual or platonic. Well, at least maybe some things are clearly platonic.
(: Succinctly stated!
I can understand, since I am a virgin, yet I have very close friendships with a number of people of both genders whom I love to the ends of the Earth, friendships that involve hugging and cuddling. One of my best friends is a working-class middle-aged straight man who feels uncomfortable with hugging another guy. We used to hug a lot, but as we've both gotten older, the hugs have become more and more infrequent. It's sad, because those were truly some great, prolonged embraces I've had with him.
I ... won't ... make ... comparison ....!
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Re: Lehola Galaxy Lifespeeding & Resulting Discussion [Split]

Post by Khemehekis »

elemtilas wrote: 28 Apr 2020 16:13
Khemehekis wrote: 28 Apr 2020 07:26 Great artwork!
Thanks!
You're welcome!

Heh, that reminds me of Micamo's quote in the How NOT to Conworld thread, stating that SF and fantasy races need to be somewhat human, so the reader will understand if your humans are oppressing Elves with the excuse that they're "not human", but it would be harder to identify with the oppressed victims if, instead of Elves, they were sentient pools of acid.
A curious artifact of human nature. And why precisely we need, while perhaps not sentient pools of acid per se, at least aliens that are actually alien. They don't have to look terribly different. But they should bé different. Inside. Otherwise it's just a world of hats and the mad hatters who hate them.
One of the most alien psychologies in the Lehola Galaxy belongs to the Reds, the acipenseriform-fescended red-skinned sapients of the planet Hapoi. Their languages (including Hapoish, the most important language of the planet) have neither adjectives nor nouns; nouns are expressed with a pronoun, a relative, and a verb: so "pencil" becomes "that which is_like_a_pencil". If you ask a Hapoishan why there is no noun that means "pencil", she or he will tell you this: Objectively, who's to say what is or is not a pencil? Which configuration of atoms constitutes a pencil, and which does not? That pencil I held there a few seconds ago no longer is quite the same thing now that it's shed a few atoms and maybe had some new different ones cling onto it. Let's assume a prototypical pencil. If it's a bit shorter, is it still a pencil? If it's lost some yellow paint, is it still a pencil? What about having lost even more paint and being in even worse condition? What if it's shorter yet, two sota long, covered with shavings, but still applicable for writing with graphite? Then is it a pencil? What if there's just a stick of graphite with a few molecules of wood attached? It is a pencil then? Is a pen a pencil? Even if not, just how pencillike (or unpencillike) is it? It does fulfill the same basic purpose of writing. If something shaped like a cube lets you spread graphite, is that a pencil?

This attitude of there-is-no-"is" extends to other aspects of the Reds' culture. For instance, the verb jile means "to be like a jile" (general region around a population center). There are many, many jiles on Hapoi, each one a population center where a bunch of people tend to be gathered together. There are no drawn boundaries on the ground indicating where one jile ends and the next one begins; rather, the closer you are to the center of a population crowd the more "in" that jile you are, and the farther away, the less "in" that jile you are. Addresses on letters say "about 17 zôfi from the center of Qagata", but the same addressee could also be said to live "about 26 zôfi from the center of Nojôdu" and that jile-reference would be equally correct.

A zôfi, in case you're wondering, is 512 mîvu, and a mîvu is 64 sota. A sota is 2.4143 centimeters.
What's sad is that it isn't even the Werre's world...

Auntimoany at least is something of an aberration in having such a large population of Denê resident within a strongly Werreish polity.

The Men will have to mind their thorns and edhs, however. Or soon enough a vengeful spirit will rise up in the East as it is doing in the West.
I see. The equivalent of Bodusians living in Kebsabhaz or Danton!
9/11 was not that important an event to me (even though I wrote a song about it!) -- it was an excuse for older generations to show blind deference to a president with a DUI.
To be fair, this is not without precedent. After all, we still venerate the Kennedys! And JFK, at least, had a bit worse a record than a mere DUI!
You mean his affairs? And his botched Bay of Pigs invasion?
I honestly didn't pay a lot of attention to it, so my perception may be somewhat skewe(re)d. I do recall a lot of flag waving and patriotic song singing and a general sense of warmongery. Always a bad combination, because the mind hadn't had time to engage with either Faith or Reason. People at the time compared the bombing with Pearl Harbour and the proposed war with WWII. Let's not forget that Hitler had a good 15 to 20 years of run up before a single shot was ever fired in his direction. And we never even went after Stalin or Mao, and they were far worse than Hitler! I think the whole Middle East war was a) rushed into without any kind of culture shaping or nation building plans & deffo no exit strategy (aren't we still there!?) and b) was little more than an excuse to finish the Middle East war of the previous decade.
Yes, a lot of people on the Fourth Turning board were insisting the U.S. had entered the Fourth Turning and we were in for another WWII-type war as soon as 9/11 happened. Many even expected the Millennials to march behind Bush, because they believed the Howe & Strauss theory so deeply. I, for one, did not believe this was Howe & Strauss' predicted Fourth Turning, as I didn't see my peers getting behind their president. Now, with Donald Trump in office, I doubt such a thing as a Fourth Turning, at least as the two authors define it, even exists. We're clearly in a crisis with a lower-case c now, yet there is no unity behind Trump, no get-with-the-program attitude, no rush to enlist in the military in huge numbers, no social conformism nor social conservatism among my Millennial peers, and extreme partisanship in Congress. Oh, and popular music is still interesting and young people are still concerned with being "cool". At least most of the non-nerds, that is.

And yet it was folks roughly out age who went off, flags waving!
Yes, most of the soldiers, airmen, and Marines were either Xers or Millennials, off to fight the fight that the Boomers were salivating over so. If 9/11 had happened when the Greatest or Silent Generation was young, there would've been a surge in enlistments. But instead you had much-less-patriotic 17-to-22-year-old Millennials and 22-to-37-year-old Xers at enlistment age. I remember a lot of talk about "supporting the troops". When Natalie Maines of the Eixie Chicks bashed Bush, she did not neglect to mention that she still supported the troops.

The left and the right had different ideas as to what supporting the troops meant. For the right, it meant agreeing with the war that they were fighting. For the left, it meant saving soldiers' lives by not sending them into a futile war based on Junior's WMD lie.
Concur about oil. As for change... I don't recall anything particular about how America needed to "change" at that time. To what are you referring? Refresh my memory!
There was a lot of talk about how everything had already changed. The phrase "Everything has changed" was already a cliché only a few months after 9/11/2001. There was also public discourse about how Americans might want to reconsider the importance of civil liberties, and give up their civil liberties in the name of homeland security. There was talk about how American entertainment was too violent and all-around crass. There was talk about how we should stop being a nation of multiculturalists, and should pledge allegiance only to the AMERICAN flag. (I am neither Jewish first nor American first. I am a MILLENNIAL first, a member of the Bittersweet Generation.) There was even talk, from the neocons, about how issues of homeland security and war were the only issues that mattered anymore. If you cared about, say, climate change, they would call you "irrelevant".
And "isocannibalistic" is a great word. Where did you pick it up?
I made it up of course!
Oh, cool! I made up "xenophagy" and "secondary cannibalism".
There are some words in LIE that describe variations on cannibalism. Xenophagy is when one species of sapient eats another, like a human eating a Grey or a reptoid eating a Domehead. Secondary cannibalism is when a person eats an animal that ate a person, like if someone were to eat pork from a pig that had been fed humanflesh.
I'd say isocannibalism is a form of xenophagy. After all, if it turned out that that pool of sentient acid were essentially ketchup (acetic acid), we'd simply bottle the stuff and sell it as an "exotic treat" from a far away world. Xenophagy, but isocannibalism implies a similarity of form, as in isomorph and similarity of place, isotope. Where chimps & gorillas & humans share basically the same shape and come from the same place.

I think if a human were to eat a Grey or a Vulcan, I'm not sure I'd call that isocannibalism per se.
Excellent point about Micamo's hypothetical sentient pools of acid! And yes, a human eating a Vulcan would be xenophagy.

I see. So the eros-storge-agape distinction takes a different semantic division among the Daine. For Daine, the sexual and the platonic are blurred. Reproduction is reproduction, which by its very nature has to be heterosexual, but anything else isn't clearly either sexual or platonic. Well, at least maybe some things are clearly platonic.
(: Succinctly stated!
Thank you!
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Re: Lehola Galaxy Lifespeeding & Resulting Discussion [Split]

Post by elemtilas »

Khemehekis wrote: 05 May 2020 07:58
One of the most alien psychologies in the Lehola Galaxy belongs to the Reds, the acipenseriform-fescended red-skinned sapients of the planet Hapoi. Their languages (including Hapoish, the most important language of the planet) have neither adjectives nor nouns; nouns are expressed with a pronoun, a relative, and a verb: so "pencil" becomes "that which is_like_a_pencil". If you ask a Hapoishan why there is no noun that means "pencil", she or he will tell you this: Objectively, who's to say what is or is not a pencil? Which configuration of atoms constitutes a pencil, and which does not? That pencil I held there a few seconds ago no longer is quite the same thing now that it's shed a few atoms and maybe had some new different ones cling onto it. Let's assume a prototypical pencil. If it's a bit shorter, is it still a pencil? If it's lost some yellow paint, is it still a pencil? What about having lost even more paint and being in even worse condition? What if it's shorter yet, two sota long, covered with shavings, but still applicable for writing with graphite? Then is it a pencil? What if there's just a stick of graphite with a few molecules of wood attached? It is a pencil then? Is a pen a pencil? Even if not, just how pencillike (or unpencillike) is it? It does fulfill the same basic purpose of writing. If something shaped like a cube lets you spread graphite, is that a pencil?
This is quite the philosophical consideration, worthy of Rhombos of Aquipuctum himself!, and would be sure to jiggle the molecules of that certain class of people who for all their wisdom couldn't put their finger on the nose of truth if it sneezed in their faces. But that's philosophers all over again. Show them a pencil and they'll argue both that it is and it isn't; some will say function follows form and others that form is figment; and still others that figment is half fruity, and we'll take the figs please. It's an eggsistential wossname, with a side of grits. Only they'll just transfer their disputationalism to the hominious nature of grits and the applicability of honey or butter.

And soon enough they'll be thrusting position papers and dissertaions into each other's faces, and the farce of philosophy will come crashing down with a cacophonous roar of disharmony.

It's obvious, is it not, Rhombos would say, none of those things are "pencils" per se, for if one is named "a pencil", then each other must be named otherwise; each, however, is the type or essence of "Pencil", comprises "pencilishness", and thus it is right to name them accordingly. Bloody sods need to take up their unexistent spades and dig themselves out of their metaphorical rabbit hole already!

What's sad is that it isn't even the Werre's world...Auntimoany at least is something of an aberration in having such a large population of Denê resident within a strongly Werreish polity.

The Men will have to mind their thorns and edhs, however. Or soon enough a vengeful spirit will rise up in the East as it is doing in the West.
I see. The equivalent of Bodusians living in Kebsabhaz or Danton!
Do tell!
To be fair, this is not without precedent. After all, we still venerate the Kennedys! And JFK, at least, had a bit worse a record than a mere DUI!
You mean his affairs? And his botched Bay of Pigs invasion?
Womanising, recklessness, Chappaquiddick, the Night Flight, the Dunk in the Chesapeake. It's a disaster-ridden clan and no mistake.
I honestly didn't pay a lot of attention to it, so my perception may be somewhat skewe(re)d. I do recall a lot of flag waving and patriotic song singing and a general sense of warmongery. Always a bad combination, because the mind hadn't had time to engage with either Faith or Reason. People at the time compared the bombing with Pearl Harbour and the proposed war with WWII. Let's not forget that Hitler had a good 15 to 20 years of run up before a single shot was ever fired in his direction. And we never even went after Stalin or Mao, and they were far worse than Hitler! I think the whole Middle East war was a) rushed into without any kind of culture shaping or nation building plans & deffo no exit strategy (aren't we still there!?) and b) was little more than an excuse to finish the Middle East war of the previous decade.
Yes, a lot of people on the Fourth Turning board were insisting the U.S. had entered the Fourth Turning and we were in for another WWII-type war as soon as 9/11 happened. Many even expected the Millennials to march behind Bush, because they believed the Howe & Strauss theory so deeply. I, for one, did not believe this was Howe & Strauss' predicted Fourth Turning, as I didn't see my peers getting behind their president. Now, with Donald Trump in office, I doubt such a thing as a Fourth Turning, at least as the two authors define it, even exists. We're clearly in a crisis with a lower-case c now, yet there is no unity behind Trump, no get-with-the-program attitude, no rush to enlist in the military in huge numbers, no social conformism nor social conservatism among my Millennial peers, and extreme partisanship in Congress. Oh, and popular music is still interesting and young people are still concerned with being "cool". At least most of the non-nerds, that is.
"Fourth Turning", may be. Signs weren't there in 2001 for a WWII-type war, though I considered it might could be. Didn't take long to become divorced of that notion. The culture was all wrong. The world has already crossed the marches and through the veil of no return. There can never be another WWII-type war until the Big Clock resets.

I don't buy into theories of that sort. They come and go and change as readily as the breeze.

2020 isn't going to be a WWII-type war either.

Trump is not a leader. He's said some of the right things; he's even done a number of good things. But he is no leader. The kind of crisis we're in is not one where a president can stand before Congress and say this is a day that will live in infamy. There is no ideology to be opposed; no army to be defeated; no government upon which to declare war or with which to conclude peace. There will be no Marshall Plan. The enemies are ancient and ruthless. They do not comply with the Geneva Conventions. They do not even behave like terrorists. They do not even care if we respond to their threat or not.

No one will "unify behind Mr Trump" because, on the one hand, he himself is in constant and erratic motion: he does not know which way to face --- and to be honest, no one does; there is also nothing against which to face. This is not a war of armies and generals and taking Hill 404. This is a war that each individual person must fight on her own, with only one steadfast companion. She may continue to live in this world, for a time, or she may die out of it. Does not matter. She may have to fight it again and again. Sooner or later, she will lose. There won't be an armistice or a victory parade. There will only be the long fight.

There is no programme to get with. The only programme available at this time is the "cornered mouse cowering before the unseen cat". The mouse can not be certain there is or is not a cat before it; does not know how to react to it; can not plan for contingencies. It's hope is that, perhaps, the cat will lose interest. Our (false) hope at this time is that someday --- six months, twelve months, eighteen months, four and twenty months --- there'll be a vaccine. A wonderweapon. What will be left afterwards? For now, a small-c crisis perhaps. But the great C is rising ever closer and when it breaks, the wave will wash away many things and many people. Fenrir is being held by the last hair on the tip of his tail.
Yes, most of the soldiers, airmen, and Marines were either Xers or Millennials, off to fight the fight that the Boomers were salivating over so. If 9/11 had happened when the Greatest or Silent Generation was young, there would've been a surge in enlistments. But instead you had much-less-patriotic 17-to-22-year-old Millennials and 22-to-37-year-old Xers at enlistment age. I remember a lot of talk about "supporting the troops". When Natalie Maines of the Eixie Chicks bashed Bush, she did not neglect to mention that she still supported the troops.

The left and the right had different ideas as to what supporting the troops meant. For the right, it meant agreeing with the war that they were fighting. For the left, it meant saving soldiers' lives by not sending them into a futile war based on Junior's WMD lie.
A bit simplistic I think. But that's the way of it with "Leftism" and "Rightism" being the only options available.

By in large, "support the troops" largely boiled down to lip service for many. And how else could it be? Is Johnny Lefty or Prissy Righty going to hop on a flight for Iraq and volunteer to cook for the army? I think a lot of people, regardless of political "sides", engaged in various moral support campaigns. Sending cards and care packages and so forth. What else, really, is there to do that would actually be of support?
Concur about oil. As for change... I don't recall anything particular about how America needed to "change" at that time. To what are you referring? Refresh my memory!
There was a lot of talk about how everything had already changed. The phrase "Everything has changed" was already a cliché only a few months after 9/11/2001. There was also public discourse about how Americans might want to reconsider the importance of civil liberties, and give up their civil liberties in the name of homeland security.
They certainly got that wish. But this is nothing new. Government will álways try to seize as much power for itself as it possibly can. There's only ever been two real choices: liberty or death.
There was talk about how American entertainment was too violent and all-around crass. There was talk about how we should stop being a nation of multiculturalists, and should pledge allegiance only to the AMERICAN flag. (I am neither Jewish first nor American first. I am a MILLENNIAL first, a member of the Bittersweet Generation.) There was even talk, from the neocons, about how issues of homeland security and war were the only issues that mattered anymore. If you cared about, say, climate change, they would call you "irrelevant".
Entertainment has always been tainted by violence and crassness. Sure, the violence wasn't barrages of machine guns & gouts of blood & how many f-bombs you can utter in sixty seconds; but were the social violence and crassness of minstrel shows any less violent?

I don't buy generationalsim, but I don't buy multiculturalism or governmentalism either. Too many isms. And what good do any of the isms do us now?
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