Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

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kanejam
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by kanejam »

Spoiler:
15 - quindici
27 - ventisette
51 - cinquantuno
99 - novantanove
158 - (un)cento e cinquantotto
1.245 - milleduecento e quarantacinque
1.435.512 - un milione quattrocentotrentecinquemila e cinquecentododici
I'm not sure about spacing but hopefully I was close. I'm already familiar with the large scale and the mixing of commas and full stops from French thankfully.

I don't think there is an English word for salumificio either. Generally all specialist food places like that are just called delis or delicatessens, or else it would just be called a 'salami store'. Is the French word for it charcuterie? There are so many names for individual stores that I have trouble remembering them all.
3 - tre /tre/ - does not carry an accent (as it's a monosyllable), but his its compounds (es. ventitré, 23) do when it's the last part
Maybe this was just a mistake, but it is very foreign-sounding to give gender to inanimate objects or abstract concepts, with a few exceptions like boats and cars.
Portami una mela qualunque. - Fetch me whatever apple. (I don't even know if this sentence is acceptable in English)
I can't actually tell if this is grammatical or not... I feel that it is, but that it is also very context dependant and maybe doesn't mean exactly what the Italian means? I don't know, I'll have to think about it some more.

Buongiourno Alessio, mi chiamo kanejam ed ho diciannove anni.
Last edited by kanejam on 08 Aug 2013 22:23, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by Alessio »

Yeah, you might guess why I wrote "his" instead of "its" as we have no neutral gender... it's a common mistake for us Italians, unfortunately >.<
As for your numbers: the first error I saw was in your text, that read "dicienove" when you should write "diciannove".
Then, when you write "cento" alone, it means "ONE hundred". Thus, "uncento" or "unocento" is not possible, just like you can't say "uncent" in French. Similarly, you can't say "unomila" or "unomille".
As for the spacing, don't worry. You can write a number without any spacing and it will still be correct. Just remember to space when you put an "e" meaning "and", and that's OK.
Last and actually least - there is a typo in "buongiorno", you added a U.

Fine! As no topic was proposed, today we're going to talk about some question words.
Let's begin with the 5 Ws + H.
What? - this has three translations. Basically, you can use "che" /ke/, "cosa" /'kɔːza/ or both (che cosa but not *cosa che). The original form was "che" (that has a similar meaning to "which"), then "cosa" was added ("che cosa" = "what thing"), and then "che" was removed ("cosa" = "thing" .-.). All of them are correct; maybe "cosa" is more colloquial and "che cosa" is more formal.
Where? - Dove? /'doːve/ Unlike Spanish, Italian does not distinguish between "where" and "to where", so "dove" is fine for both meanings.
When? - Quando? /'kwando/
Who? - Chi? /ki/ This one is a question word and also a pronoun, but it can't be used in subordinate clauses. Thus, "chi sei?" (who are you?) and "chi mangia, ingrassa" (who eats, gets fat) are correct, but *"l'uomo chi lavora qua" is not. In this case, you must use "che": we've already talked about it.
Why? - Perché? /per'ke/, though /per'kε/ is common in nothern Italy. This word originates from "per che" = "for what". It also means "because", but not "because of" which is "a causa di".
How? - Come? /'koːme/

Additionally, Italian has "quanto?" /'kwanto/, meaning "how much/how many". *"Come molto" does not exist.
This last word is also the only one to decline, as it is often followed by a noun. You can see its usage in last lesson's sentence "how old are you?":
Quanti anni hai?
So, basically, use "quanto/quanta" for uncountable nouns and "quanti/quante" for countable nouns.

Remember that Italian questions differ from statements only by two things:
1) The question mark (punto interrogativo) at the end of the sentence;
2) A rising tone (tono crescente) when pronouncing the question.
Thus, if you write a question without the question mark, IT WON'T BE A QUESTION. This is what happened to me last year.
The PlayStation Network had just been hacked, and the service was down. A friend of mine wrote this sentence on my chat:
"hanno riaperto il PSN"
(they re-opened the PSN)
I felt happy and answered:
"Evviva!" ("Hurrah!")
Then he said:
"... sei scemo per caso?" ("are you dumb by chance?")
It was then that I realized that he wanted to ASK whether the PSN had re-opened, he didn't want to TELL me that it had! Without that question mark, he changed the meaning of the sentence. Watch out!

OK, now, here are some basic answers combining "this" and "that" with the question words.
Cosa? → Questo, quello (this, that)
Dove? → Qua/qui, là/lì (here, there) - remember, there is no accent on "qui" and "qua", but there is one on "lì" and "là". This is to distinguish them from "li" (3pl atone object pronoun) and "la" (feminine singular definite article). We use this rhyme to remember this rule:
"Su Qui, Quo, Qua (Donald Duck's nephews; "quo" has no meaning) l'accento non va[, su là e lì l'accento va sì]"
(literally "On Qui, Quo, Qua the accent doesn't go[, on là and lì the accent goes yes]")
Quando? → Ora/adesso, allora (now, then)
Chi? → Costui (m)/costei (f), colui (m)/colei (f) (this man/woman here, that man/woman there)- better use the personal pronouns, though. These ones sound very umpolite, almost derogatory, and are deprecated.
Come? → Così, colà (this way, that way) - "colà" is not much used. I'm not even sure Accademia della Crusca considers it as a word. Google Translate does, so I think it actually exists on some dictionary, but you'd better not use it. We don't, either.
Perché? → Per questo, per quello (because of/for this, because of/for that) - actually these are two words. There are no single words to express these concepts.

Just like in English, these words (except chi) can be used as conjunctions/relative pronouns like this:
Quando arrivi dimmi qualcosa. - Tell me something when you arrive.
Non so come tu riesca sempre a stupirmi! - I don't know how you always manage to impress me! (notice "riesca": it's a present subjunctive, it will probably be the topic of next lesson)

OK, this is the end already. Complete these sentences to test what you've learned today.
1. __________ vuoi da me? - What do you want from me?
2. Non dimenticarti di comprare il pane _____ vai in centro. - Don't forget to buy the bread when you['ll] go to the city center.
3. ____ prima arriva, meglio alloggia (popular proverb). - Who arrives earlier, stays better (that is not correct in English, but would be something like "finds a better place where to stay")
4. __________ l'hai fatto? - Why did you do that?
5. Solo ora mi rendo conto di ______ ho fatto. - Only now I realize what I've done. (better not use "che" alone in sentences like this one - it sounds wrong after a preposition, maybe because when meaning "that" it should become "cui" here)
6. Puoi insistere ______ vuoi, ma non cederò. - You can insist as much as you want (it. "how much you want"), but I won't surrender.
7. ______ hai fatto? ______! - How did you do (that)? - This way!
8. _____ non ci sono gatti, solo cani. - Here, there aren't cats, only dogs.
9. Questo contratto scade il 7 di luglio. Fino ad ______, dovrai osservarlo. - This contract expires on the 7th of July. Until then, you'll have to observe it.
10. C'è un luogo e un momento per ogni cosa! Ma non _____. - There is a time and place (in Italian "place" comes first, just wanted to preserve the original English order) for everything! But not now. (Professor Oak's famous sentence)
:ita: :eng: [:D] | :fra: :esp: :rus: [:)] | :con: Hecathver, Hajás, Hedetsūrk, Darezh...

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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by kanejam »

Sorry, I forgot to make a request about the topic of the lessons, but I really don't mind and I'm quite enjoying everything. I am definitely up for learning the subjunctive though.
Spoiler:
1. Che cosa vuoi da me? - What do you want from me?
2. Non dimenticarti di comprare il pane quando vai in centro. - Don't forget to buy the bread when you go to the city center.
3. Chi prima arriva, meglio alloggia . - Who arrives earlier, stays better.
4. Perché l'hai fatto? - Why did you do that?
5. Solo ora mi rendo conto di che cosa ho fatto. - Only now I realize what I've done. (better not use "che" alone in sentences like this one - it sounds wrong after a preposition, maybe because when meaning "that" it should become "cui" here)
6. Puoi insistere quanto vuoi, ma non cederò. - You can insist as much as you want (it. "how much you want"), but I won't surrender.
7. Come hai fatto? Così! - How did you do (that)? - This way!
8. Qui non ci sono gatti, solo cani. - Here, there aren't cats, only dogs.
9. Questo contratto scade il 7 di luglio. Fino ad allora, dovrai osservarlo. - This contract expires on the 7th of July. Until then, you'll have to observe it.
10. C'è un luogo e un momento per ogni cosa! Ma non ora. - There is a time and place for everything! But not now. (Professor Oak's famous sentence [+1] )
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by Alessio »

Perfect! No mistake in this one. OK, so this is the next topic: the remaining forms of the subjunctive.

Let's recap a bit about what the so-called modo congiuntivo is.
-It is used to express things that could (have) happen(ed), but we're not sure about, or to express things that haven't happened, but should have to make our reasoning correct (as in second conditionals).
-It is made up of four tenses: two tempi semplici, the present and the imperfect, and two tempi composti, the past and the past perfect.
-It is often used after se and the pattern verb + che.

The last subjunctive lesson was about the imperfect and the past perfect tenses, which can be used in conditional sentences. Today, we're going to see the other two tenses, namely the presente and the passato, in action.

CONGIUNTIVO PRESENTE
To form the root of the present subjunctive, take the 1sg form of the verb in the indicative present and remove the -o. This way, you can get regular roots even from irregular verbs such as porre → pongo → pong- and trarre → traggo → tragg-. However, the root for essere is si- (with a stressed <i> except in 1 and 2pl) and the root for avere is abbi- (of course, don't repeat the <i> when the suffix begins with one).
Then, add these suffixes.
1ST CONJUGATION - ARE VERBS
-i
-i
-i
-iamo
-iate
-ino

2ND and 3RD CONJUGATION - ERE and IRE VERBS (+ avere, essere and some irregular verbs)
-a
-a
-a
-iamo
-iate
-ano

As you can see, in both cases the singular persons are identical. It is therefore a good idea to express the subject with present subjunctive.
Let's see how to use this tense, then!
Consider this sentence:
I think Mark is home.
We don't really know if Mark is home, thus we must use the subjunctive. Seems easy, uh?
Penso che Marco sia a casa.
In English, you can say something like this:
I want you to come here.
In Italian, you can't. You have to turn it the other way around, like this:
I want that you come here.
Since you want something, you can't be sure you'll get it, right? Then you must use the subjunctive.
Voglio che tu venga qui.
Notice the personal pronoun, as without it the sentence could also mean "I want HIM to come here". Generally, if you don't put the subject, people will assume it was a 3sg, and in this case it would be wrong. Watch out!

Now, what about the past tense?

CONGIUNTIVO PASSATO
The past subjunctive is a compound tense made up of the present subjunctive of the proper auxiliary verb and the past participle of the verb you're conjugating. When writing hypothetical sentences, you can also use the imperfect and the past perfect tenses, so decide which one you should be using according to the rules for the indicative. We didn't study the indicative past perfect - which is basically the imperfect form of the auxiliary followed by the past participle - but it uses the same rules as the English past perfect, so you should be able to use it.
Now, look at these sentences where a congiuntivo passato is in action.
Non penso che l'abbia mangiato. - I don't think he ate it.
As usual, the sentence is hypothetical, as you don't know whether he ate whatever you're talking about or not. That's why you have to use the subjunctive mood. In English you used a simple past, so in Italian you should use either a present perfect or an imperfect past; however, since the action is punctual, the imperfect can't be used, and the present perfect remains the only choice. In the subjunctive mood, the present perfect is represented by the past.

USAGE OF THE OTHER TENSES
What about the other forms we've already studied? Here are some examples.
Non sapevo che avessi letto quel libro. - I didn't know you had read that book.
Why the subjunctive in this one? Well, you know now that he read the book, but at the time you're talking about, you didn't. Thus, as always, where uncertainty goes, the subjunctive follows.
Credevo che il treno arrivasse sul secondo binario. - I thought (it. "believed", that can be used in this sense in place of pensare, to think) the train arrived on the second track.
In this case, as the action of arriving on that specific track is habitual for that train, you should be using the imperfect form.

AND WHAT ABOUT THE FUTURE?
In Italian, unlike in Spanish, there is no future subjunctive. So just use the present subjunctive (if using a present form doesn't alter the meaning of the sentence) or... the indicative future!
Spero che tu ottenga quel che vuoi. - I hope you get what you want. (this sentence uses the present tense in English and works fine, so in Italian you can use a present subjunctive even though it refers to a future action)
Non credo che verrà. - I don't think he will come. (this sentence uses the future tense in English, and you can't use the present, so in Italian you must use the indicative future)

SPECIAL USES OF THE SUBJUNCTIVE
The subjunctive is always used after some locutions, especially senza che, prima che, nonostante, malgrado, a meno che, a condizione che, affinché (meaning: without [+ ing form], before [that], although, despite, unless, provided that, so that):
Sei partito prima che potessi salutarti. - You left before I could say goodbye (it. "greet you").
Nonostante io sia un bravo ragazzo, non ho ancora baciato una ragazza. - Although I'm a good guy, I haven't kissed a girl yet.
Ho acceso la TV affinché tu potessi vedere il telegiornale. - I turned on the TV so that you could see the news.

That's it! We're finished: now you know everything about the subjunctive mood... well, almost everything. Now you have no excuse: you must use it whenever necessary! Next lesson will be about the conditional mood, so that you can finally write meaningful sentences. Then, I'm thinking about posting some lyrics from my favourite songs so that you can start learning Italian with music which is always a very helpful thing. There will be lyrics from singers from the north, the center and the south of Italy: this way you can hear different accents. I've already got a bunch of songs in my head.

So, here is your daily exercise. Don't stop working! Complete these sentences deciding whether they need the subjunctive or not.
1. Sapevo che ___ tu! - I know it was you (it. "you were you")!
2. Sono sicuro che _____ un ottimo capo. - I'm sure you'll be an excellent boss.
3. Giorgio? Che cosa ci fai qui? Pensavo che ___________________ (partire) ieri! - George? What are you doing here? I thought you had left yesterday! (is the past perfect correct here? In Italian it is, as the action of you thinking happened later than George "leaving")
4. Sebbene (= nonostante, malgrado...) _________________ (dire, past participle "detto") a tutti che era in vacanza negli USA, l'abbiamo visto a Bologna. - Despite he [had] told everybody that he was on holiday in the USA, we saw him in Bologna.
5. Affinché un bambino _____ (nascere), sono necessari nove mesi. - You need (it. "they are necessary") nine months so that a child is born.
:ita: :eng: [:D] | :fra: :esp: :rus: [:)] | :con: Hecathver, Hajás, Hedetsūrk, Darezh...

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kanejam
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by kanejam »

Spoiler:
So, here is your daily exercise. Don't stop working! Complete these sentences deciding whether they need the subjunctive or not.
1. Sapevo che sei tu! - I know [knew?] it was you!
2. Sono sicuro che sarà un ottimo capo. - I'm sure you'll be an excellent boss. (or should this be congiuntivo presento?)
3. Giorgio? Che cosa ci fai qui? Pensavo che sia partito ieri! - George? What are you doing here? I thought you had left yesterday! (is the past perfect correct here? yes it works but you could have dropped the 'had' and that would have been fine as well)
4. Sebbene abessi detto a tutti che era in vacanza negli USA, l'abbiamo visto a Bologna. - Despite he [had] told everybody that he was on holiday in the USA, we saw him in Bologna. [+1] the word 'despite' doesn't work like that, it can't have a whole clause after it, it would either need to be 'although' or 'even though', or else 'despite the fact that'
5. Affinché un bambino nasca, sono necessari nove mesi. - You need nine months so that a child is born.
Looking forward to songs [:)]
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by Alessio »

OK, corrections.
1) You should use the imperfect tense, as you're using a past in English, thus "sapevo che eri tu".
3) Pensavo che fosse partito ieri. That's why I used the past perfect in English: it is necessary in Italian, since your thought is in the past (pensavo = imperfect tense) but the action of leaving happened previously.
4) I think that "abessi" instead of "avesse" is a typo. Watch out though, you are making many mistakes like this one. When speaking, this could make you less understandable. Oh, and thanks for that thing about the word "despite". The funny fact is that I own an FCE - still they never taught us how to use "despite", thus I had to figure it out myself (and as you can see I did not succeed).

I'm in a bit of a hurry, so I'll write this lesson later. I just wanted to let you see your mistakes. I'll be back soon. Bye!
:ita: :eng: [:D] | :fra: :esp: :rus: [:)] | :con: Hecathver, Hajás, Hedetsūrk, Darezh...

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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by Alessio »

Fine, shall the lesson about the conditional mood begin.
The conditional mood (condizionale /konditsjo'naːle/) has only two tenses: a presente, which is a simple tense, and a passato, which is a compound tense.
It is generally used together with a subjunctive; since only 2 out of 4 subjunctive tenses can be used in a conditional sentence, there are also 2 conditional tenses.
Let's see how to form the condizionale presente.
First, take the future simple root. This way, you don't have to remember how to form the conditional root for irregular verbs.
Avere → avr-
Essere → sar-
Then, add these suffixes:
-ei /εːi/
-esti /esti/
-ebbe /ebːe/
-emmo /emːo/
-este /este/
-ebbero /ebːero/
Here is the present conditional of "avere", together with a stress pattern.
Io avrei /a'vrεːi/
Tu avresti /a'vresti/
Egli avrebbe /a'vrebːe/
Noi avremmo /a'vremːo/
Voi avreste /a'vreste/
Essi avrebbero /a'vrebːero/
Watch out for the minimal pair: if you apply -emo instead of -emmo you'll get a future (avremo = we will have).
Let's see now how to use this tense. The first usage is in conditional sentences where the hypothesis is in the imperfect subjunctive (2nd conditionals).
Se mia nonna avesse le ruote, sarebbe una carriola. - If my grandmothers had wheels, she'd be a barrow. (typical sentence said to who asks too many times: "what if... ?")
Se studiassi di più, prenderesti voti migliori. - If you studied more, you'd get (it. take) better grades.
You can also use this tense whenever you use "would" in English. Just remember that you can't say "I would like" in Italian; you must say "I would want", like this:
Vorrei un cappuccino /kapːut'tʃiːno/, grazie. - I'd like a cappuccino, thank you.
It's very common (and highly recommended) to use the conditional mood when quoting sources that may or may not be reliable, or that aren't sure themselves about what they say. Thus, it's often used in newsprogrammes.
Secondo l'imputato, l'assassino sarebbe il signor Rossi. - According to the defendant, the killer is/would be mr. Rossi.

CONDIZIONALE PASSATO
The past conditional, as most compound tenses, is formed by conjugating the auxiliary in the conditional present and adding the past participle of the correct verb.
Avrei avuto - Saresti stato (a bit of a tongue-twister, isn't it?)
The past conditional is used mainly in conditional sentences if the hypothesis was in the past perfect subjunctive (3rd conditionals).
Se ti avessi visto, ti avrei chiamato. - If I had seen you, I would have called you.
It is also used in all of the cases mentioned above, when talking about the past.
Secondo i medici, sotto inchiesta per omicidio colposo, il paziente sarebbe morto a causa di un infarto. - According to the doctors, under investigation for manslaughter, the patient died/would have died because of a heart attack.
Il film mi è piaciuto, ma avrei preferito vedere l'altro. - I liked the movie, but I would have preferred watching the other one.

That's all. Tomorrow I'll post the first lyrics - that will probably be those of Albachiara by Vasco Rossi - with their translation and a link to listen to the song on YouTube. Vasco Rossi comes from Zocca, in the province (that in Anglophone countries would be like a county) of Modena, my own. It's located in central-northern Italy, thus it will be an Apennine accent.
OK! Now the exercises, as usual. Complete these conditional sentences. Decide what tense and mood should be used.
1. Se ________ (potere), ti _________ (aiutare). - If I could, I'd help you.
2. Mi hanno dato solo due settimane di ferie, nonostante ne __________________ (chiedere) tre. Non credo che una in più ____________________ (essere) un problema. - They gave me only two weeks off, although I had asked for three (watch the tense!). I don't think that one more would have been a problem.
3. Secondo fonti non ufficiali, __________________ (bruciare - aux. essere) tre ettari di bosco. (watch the number!) - According to unofficial sources, three hectars of wood burnt.
4. Se non __________________ (dire - pp. detto) quelle cose, non ti _______________ (arrestare). - If you hadn't said those things, they wouldn't have arrested you.
5. Quanto mi ______________ (piacere) essere al mare... - I'd really love (it. "how much I'd like") to be by the seaside...
:ita: :eng: [:D] | :fra: :esp: :rus: [:)] | :con: Hecathver, Hajás, Hedetsūrk, Darezh...

Tin't inameint ca tót a sàm stê żōv'n e un po' cajoun, mo s't'armâgn cajoun an vōl ménga dîr t'armâgn anc żōven...
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by kanejam »

Spoiler:
1. Se potessi, ti aiutarei. - If I could, I'd help you.
2. Mi hanno dato solo due settimane di ferie, nonostante ne avessi chiesto tre. Non credo che una in più sarei stato un problema. - They gave me only two weeks off, although I had asked for three. I don't think that one more would have been a problem.
3. Secondo fonti non ufficiali, sarebbero bruciati tre ettari di bosco. - According to unofficial sources, three hectares of wood burnt.
4. Se non avessi detto quelle cose, non ti avrebbero arrestato (arrestare). - If you hadn't said those things, they wouldn't have arrested you.
5. Quanto mi piacerebbe (piacere) essere al mare... - I'd really love (it. "how much I'd like") to be by the seaside...
Hopefully I haven't made as many errors as last time. Also sorry I took a while to get round to doing this.
Last edited by kanejam on 16 Aug 2013 09:29, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by Alessio »

OK, correction.
1) Se potessi. Conditional sentence = imperfect subjunctive.
2) I'm sorry I forgot to tell that the past participle of "chiedere" is "chiesto" ahah! Thus, "ne avessi chieste" is the solution. Yours is fine, you didn't know this.
3) Correct.
4) Correct.
5) As you see, the subject of the sentence is "essere al mare". We haven't really studied the verb "piacere"; I supposed you remembered something from previous examples. Your solution would be correct if the subject was a 1sg, anyways, so it's not really a mistake for the purpose of the lesson; however in Italian the correct form is "mi piacerebbe".

Okay! Now, time for the lyrics.

INTRODUCTION
Vasco Rossi is widely acclaimed as one of Italy's best rockers. He was born in Zocca, Modena, on the 7th of February 1952, and has participated to the Festival of the Italian Song (otherwise known as Sanremo, as it's held in Sanremo, Imperia) in 1982, when he was already 30; however, his song, Vado al massimo, didn't have much success. He tried again next year with Vita spericolata; he was eliminated during the first evening. However, that song became almost legendary, and his fans still regard it as one of his best.
However, the song I'm going to post about today is not this one. His most famous song has always been Albachiara. The title is an English-style agglutination of "chiara come un'alba" (clear as a dawn), therefore I decided that a literal translation, "Dawnclear", gives the correct idea. Note that in Italian you can't agglutinate words like this. In facts, many people still think that the title is "alba chiara" (clear dawn). However! These are the lyrics, with the best gloss I could make and a translation by... myself.

Respiri piano per non far rumore,
breath.2SG gently PURP NEG make noise
ti addormenti di sera e ti risvegli col sole,
REFL.2SG fall_asleep.2sg TIME evening and REFL.2sg wake_up.2sg COMIT.DEF.MS sun
sei chiara come un'alba,
be.2SG clear COMP.EGU INDEF.F dawn
sei fresca come l'aria.
be.2SG fresh COMP.EGU DEF.FS air
Diventi rossa se qualcuno ti guarda
become.2SG red if somebody 2SG.ACC look
e sei fantastica quando sei assorta
and be.2SG fantastic when be.2SG absorbed
nei tuoi problemi, nei tuoi pensieri.
STATE_IN_PLACE.DEF.MP 2SG.GEN.MP problem.PL, STATE_IN_PLACE.DEF.MP 2SG.GEN.MP thought.PL

Ti vesti svogliatamente
REFL.2SG dress.2SG listless.ADVB
e non metti mai niente
and NEG put.2SG never nothing (notice: three negative words in the same sentence!)
che possa attirare attenzione
REL can.SUBJ.3SG attract attention
di particolare, solo per farti guardare.
GEN particular only PURP make+ACC.2SG look

E con la faccia pulita cammini per strada
and COM DEF.FS face clean walk.2SG along street
mangiando una mela coi libri di scuola
eat.GERUND INDEF.F apple COM.DEF.MP book.PL GEN school
ti piace studiare, non te ne devi vergognare.
REFL be_pleasant study NEG REFL REL_GEN must.2SG be_ashamed
E quando guardi con quegli occhi grandi
and when look.2SG INSTR DEM.MP eye.PL big.PL
forse un po' troppo sinceri, sinceri
maybe INDEF.M bit too_much sincere.PL sincere.PL
si vede quello che pensi, quello che sogni.
MEDIOPASSIVE see.3PS DEM.MS REL think.2PS DEM.MS REL dream.2PS

E qualche volta fai pensieri strani
and some time make.2SG thought.PL strange.PL
con una mano, una mano ti sfiori:
INSTR INDEF.F hand INDEF.F hand REFL touch_on
TU, sola dentro la stanza
2SG alone inside DEF.FS room
e tutto il mondo fuori!
and UNIV DEF.MS world outside

You breath gently so you make no noise
you fall asleep in the evening and you wake up with the sun
you're as clear as a dawn,
you're as fresh as the air.
You become red (blush) if someone looks at you
and you're fantastic when you're absorbed
in your problems, in your thoughts.

You dress listlessly
and you never wear anything
that could attract attention,
anything in particular,
just so that others look at you.

And with a clean face you walk along the street
eating an apple with your school books
you like studying, you don't have to be ashamed of that.
And when you look with those big eyes
maybe a bit too sincere, sincere
we can see what you're thinking, what you're dreaming.

And sometimes you have strange thoughts
with a hand, a hand you touch on yourself
YOU, alone inside the room
and the whole world outside!




Here http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUxF5ZHWpjU you can listen to Albachiara. Remember that Vasco comes from the mountains of Modena, so he has a central-northern mountaineer accent. Northern mountaineer and plain accent aren't much different (I'm from the plains and have practically the same identical accent), but I thought you should know what precise variant it is anyways. Enjoy!
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by kanejam »

I fixed the errors. I probably should have guessed that piacere would act like that, like the Spanish 'me gusta' or the French 'plaire', which it looks cognate with?

The Vasco Rossi is pretty cool. I'm not sure if it's his accent or what, but it somehow sounds like Spanish in my ears. [:S] Still, very cool song.
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by Alessio »

If you want someone that sounds Spanish, listen to southern singers such as Gigi d'Alessio and Pino Daniele. The Neapolitan dialect has a very strong Spanish influence. For example, they put an "a" before direct objects when they are represented by the name of a person (example: ITA "Chiama Giovanna", NEA "Chiama a Giovanna", ENG "Call Joanne"), and they realize intervocalic <s> as rather than [z] as in Tuscan (the "standard", Accademia della Crusca-defined dialect of Italian). Also their grammars are similar: for example, the past simple of "be" is the same as that of "go".
However, this is no Neapolitan course, so let's get back to Italian! Yes, "piacere" is definitely cognate with "plaîre" and also with "gustar", that is a false friend with italian gustare (to taste) and properly translates to garbare, which the Tuscans use a lot (mi garba instead of mi piace is very common in Tuscany).
Well, enough. Today's topic will be something that I wanted to teach you before, but I thought that since we had already talked about the subjunctive, ending the topic would have been better. We are going to talk about six special adverbs of place that behave as prepositions, even though they aren't generally supposed to be so. These adverbs can be used in two ways: with or without a preposition after them. We'll call these prepositional adverbs (as they don't have a specific, official name). Let's begin.

Dentro (a) - inside. Can be used in place of in, and is common if the container is small.
Il gatto è dentro (al)la cesta. - The cat is inside the (how do you call that wicker thing where cats love to sleep? Basket?).
Fuori (di) - outside. This one is used without articles. In facts, if you want to specify that the name is definite, you have to use the adverb fuori da (and in this case "da" is compulsory).
Mi dispiace, in questo momento sono fuori (di) casa. - I'm sorry, in this moment I'm not at home (lit. I'm outside the home).
Sopra (a) - on, above. Can be used in place of su.
La penna è sopra al/il tavolo. - The pen is on the table.
Sotto (a) - under, below. "Sotto casa" means "in the courtyard in front of the house".
Si è nascosto sotto al/il letto. - He hid under the bed.
Davanti (a) - in front of, opposite to, before (place). Its usage without "a", though correct, is uncommon. When meaning "in front of", it can be replaced by "di fronte (a)".
Il bar si trova davanti (al)l'ospedale. - The pub is in front of/opposite to the hospital.
Dietro (a) - behind. When followed by a personal pronoun, it uses the preposition di instead.
Dove sei? Dietro (al)la porta. - Where are you? Behind the door.
Nasconditi dietro (di) me! - Hide behind me!

Aaaand this is all for today. A short lesson is just fine on Friday, uh? Now complete this sentences. You have to use all the prepositions above (English question: "all the" or "all of the"?), except one you'll have to choose. Decide by yourself which one fits the best, as there won't be their translation in English.

1. I bicchieri sono ______________ credenza. - The glasses are (...) the cupboard.
2. Siediti ______________ me. - Take a seat (...) me.
3. Non preoccuparti, Vera. Non ci sono mostri _______________ tuo letto. - Don't worry, Vera. There's no monster (...) your bed.
4. C'era un passaggio segreto _______________ alla libreria. - There was a secret passage (...) the bookshelf.
5. Vai ___________ quella botola... - Go (...) that trapdoor... (typical sentence in videogames where the main character is really dumb)
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by kanejam »

Now complete these sentences. You have to use all the prepositions above (English question: "all the" or "all of the"? you can use either or. I think omitting the 'of' is slightly more a spoken thing but anyway), except one you'll have to choose. Decide by yourself which one fits the best, as there won't be their translation in English. (lol this sentence doesn't quite make sense
Spoiler:
1. I bicchieri sono dentro la credenza. - The glasses are (...) the cupboard.
2. Siediti Davanti me. - Take a seat (...) me.
3. Non preoccuparti, Vera. Non ci sono mostri sotto il tuo letto. - Don't worry, Vera. There's no monster (...) your bed.
4. C'era un passaggio segreto dietro alla libreria. - There was a secret passage (...) the bookshelf.
5. Vai sopra quella botola... - Go (...) that trapdoor... (typical sentence in videogames where the main character is really dumb)
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by Alessio »

Thanks again for the corrections in my English sentence. As an Italian, I realize /ɪ/ as , and this is why I keep doing that mistake. Also, seeing your answers I realized that "davanti me" sounds... well, wrong. I checked and it appears to be correct, so I'd say that your score is 5/5. It would be anyways, since that would be my mistake, but this isn't the case. Good job!

Now, today we are going to see the last two verbal moods, the imperative and the gerund, and the way they're used.

GIVING COMMANDS
The imperative mood is, of course, used to give commands. It has only one tense, for obvious reasons: the present.
Before we begin, please not that, unlike in English, in Italian there is an imperative 3sg form.

2sg imperative
For -are verbs, the 2sg imperative is the same as the 3sg present indicative.
Mangia! - Eat! (mangiare)
For -ere and -ire verbs, the 2sg imperative is the same as the 2sg present indicative.
Scegli! - Choose! (scegliere)
Dormi! - Sleep! (dormire)

3sg imperative
3sg imperatives are always the same as their present subjunctive counterpart. Often they also retain the che, generally used when conjugating verbs in the subjunctive (if you're asked to do so, you never say "io mangi, tu mangi...", but "che io mangi, che tu mangi...").
Che mangi! - something like Let him eat!
Che scelga! - Let him choose! (nb irregular present: io scelgo, tu scegli, egli sceglie, noi scegliamo, voi scegliete, essi scelgono)
Che dorma! - Let him sleep!

Plural imperatives
Plural imperatives are the same as the corresponding indicative present form.
Mangiamo!/Mangiate! - Let's eat!/Eat!
Scegliamo!/Scegliete! - Let's choose!/Choose!
Dormiamo!/Dormite! - Let's sleep!/Sleep!

And this is all about the imperative mood. Quite easy, actually.
Then, here comes the gerund. Before we introduce this mood, let's talk a bit about grammatical aspects. Italian doesn't have proper aspects, but it does have some "traces" of them: particularly, the progressive aspect and the prospective aspect. The gerund mood is generally used when conjugating a verb in its progressive aspect.
To form a progressive verb, you need two things:
-The (almost regular) conjugation of the verb stare (which literally means "to stay" and shares the past participle with essere: stato): the only anomaly here is the present 2sg form, that takes -ai and thus is "stai", quite common among -are verbs with monosyllabic roots;
-The gerund of the verb you want to conjugate.

Forming a gerund present is very simple: -are verbs take -ando, whereas -ere and -ire verbs take -endo.
Thus:
Sto mangiando. - I'm eating.
Sto scegliendo. - I'm choosing.
Sto dormendo. - I'm sleeping.
There are some irregular gerunds:
Bere (which conjugates mostly as bevere; drink) - bevendo
Fare (make, do) - facendo
Dire (say, tell) - dicendo
Porre (put) - ponendo (same for supporre, apporre, comporre...)
{verbs in -durre} - {...}ducendo (like condurre = conducendo ecc.)
There is an Italian pun about the gerund mood:
«Ragazzi, Ferdinando (Italian name) è presente?» «No, prof, Ferdinando è gerundio!»
(Guys, is Ferdinando present? No, teacher, Ferdinando is gerund!)
Once someone posted this on Facebook and took a screenshot of the unbelievable comments he received. Basically, a girl writing in such a bad Italian that even a 6-year-old child would have been able to write better, said that she didn't get the pun and asked for explanation. She was told to go back to primary school, and she answered that she had never studied this kind of stuff. So they told her that it was impossible, this was generally studied during the second year of primary school. Her answer:
«il verbo ferdinare nn lò ftt!» (some kind of alien form of "Il verbo ferdinare non l'ho fatto", they never taught us the verb ferdinare)
The pun was sad, but her comments made me think about committing suicide. (I'm joking of course, before anyone says anything)

This is all for today. I don't have much time so the exercises will come tomorrow. Stay tuned!
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by kanejam »

As always, these lessons are brilliant, keep them coming! I accidentally read the last line of your post as 'stay united', which I thought was an odd set of parting words until I reread it. And don't worry about your English, it's very good and only subject to a few errors here and there, no more than a native speaker might make.
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by Alessio »

Thank you very much, Kanejam. I hope that your Italian is improving with each lesson, too! It really looks like you're the only active learner, although this topic reached 2000 visits today, thus I think there are many other people reading it but not replying.
OK, so as promised I'll write the exercises about the gerund and imperative mood, but before that I would like to add something to yesterday's lesson.
The progressive aspect isn't the only use of the gerund mood. It can also be used to replace instrumental constructions. What do I mean? Well, it may sound more complicated than it really is. Basically, a gerund verb is used when the action it expresses is carried out as a means to do something, like this:
Premendo quel bottone, aprirai la porta. - By pressing that button, you'll open the door.
In English, as you can see, you can do the same thing, but the verb must be preceded by "by" (sorry for the wordplay).

Notice that gerund (and imperative) verbs merge with pronouns, just like infinitives. Look at these examples with the verb premere:
(gerund) Vedi quel bottone? Premendolo aprirai la porta. - Do you see that button? By pressing it, you'll open the door.
(imperative)Vedi quel bottone? Premilo! - Do you see that button? Press it!
In these cases, the stress doesn't change position, hence /pre'mendo/ → /pre'mendolo/ and /'preːmi/ → /'preːmilo/.

The 2sg imperatives of some monosyllabic-root verbs, especially andare (to go; io vado, tu vai, egli va, noi andiamo, voi andate, essi vanno) and fare (to do/make; io faccio, tu fai, egli fa, noi facciamo, voi fate, essi fanno), are often shortened replacing the final <i> with an apostrophe, like this:
Va' (instead of vai) a casa! - Go home!
Fa' (instead of fai) il bravo! - Be good (lit. "do/make the good one")!
This shortening is compulsory when these verbs merge with pronouns/particles; the first letter (which is always a consonant) of those pronouns is also doubled.
Fallo! - Do it!
Vacci! - Go there!

Another important thing I forgot in yesterday's hurry: when negating a 2sg imperative, the verb must be in the infinite form.
This is actually quite strange, as Italian, as far as I know, is the only language (or at least the only Romance language) doing this. Compare these sentences:
Mangia! - Eat!
Non mangiare! - Do not eat!
Watch out with "fare", as this will happen:
Fallo! → Non farlo!
The difference is, apart from the "non", only one letter. So try to avoid writing (or worse, saying!) "non fallo", as its only meaning would be "not phallus". Yes, when you shout "do it!", you might as well be shouting something like "d*ck!". Hopefully the interlocutor will understand that you're not talking about your/his genitals. Enough!

OK, so we've seen many verbs merging with pronouns, haven't we? Well, you should know that each verb can merge not only with one pronoun, but even with two or in some (mostly dialectal) case even three. There are even some verbs that change their meaning when they are used with some pronouns. We'll see this in later lessons. For the time being, enjoy these exercises!

A) GERUND MOOD. Conjugate the verb between parentheses, and specify if you're using the progressive aspect or not.
1. Così _________ (fare), lo ucciderai! - By doing so, you'll kill him!
2. Non disturbarmi, _________________ (mangiare). - Don't disturb me, I'm eating.
3. _____________ (ascoltare) la musica, non ti sento. - I'm listening to some music, I can't hear you.
4. Solo ___________ (sconfiggere) Ganon potrai salvare Zelda. - Only by defeating Ganon you'll be able to save Zelda. (yes, I love that videogame)
5. È acqua o vodka quella che ________________ (bere)? - Is it water or vodka you're drinking? (Italian "the one you're drinking")
6. Il tuo gatto è stato avvelenato, ma _________ (dare) questo antidoto lo guariremo. - Your cat has been poisoned, but by giving it this antidote we'll heal him.
7. Mi _____________ (prendere) in giro? - Are you kidding me? (Italian "are you taking me [with you] to a tour?"; remember that "stare" has an irregular 2sg form)

B) IMPERATIVE MOOD. Give these commands!
1. Eat it! (= mangiare)
2. Kill him. (= uccidere)
3. Say hi to her! (= salutare, transitive, thus no dative required, just an accusative)
4. Don't smoke! (= fumare)
5. Go out! (plural; = uscire, somewhat irregular but not in the form you need)
6. Let him speak! (= parlare)
7. Let's play! (= giocare; watch out, that <c> must stay a /k/!)

May I ask a question, Kanejam? You're giving Latin lessons, so I suppose you can speak it quite well. Italian is the most direct descendant of Latin. Are you noticing many similarities? I can't speak Latin, they say it's very different, but I can't know until I hear the opinion of a non-native speaker; as far as I was told, the lexicon is similar, but the grammar is not; I know about the six cases, but nothing else.
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by kanejam »

I'm sure it is, slowly but surely! When I have time I will reread over the older posts to make sure I haven't forgotten anything.

It's the same with my Latin lessons - plenty of views but few posts. I don't have anyone making regular posts there anymore after Ambrisio disappeared off the board.
Alessio wrote:Yes, when you shout "do it!", you might as well be shouting something like "d*ck!".
Wow. I just burst out loud laughing and got several concerned looks. I'll have to keep this in mind. Surely there are some good dirty jokes based on this?

Anyway, exercises:
Spoiler:
A) GERUND MOOD. Conjugate the verb between parentheses, and specify if you're using the progressive aspect or not.
1. Così facendo, lo ucciderai! - By doing so, you'll kill him!
2. Non disturbarmi, sto mangiando. - Don't disturb me, I'm eating. [info] progressive
3. Sto ascoltando la musica, non ti sento. - I'm listening to some music, I can't hear you. [info] progressive
4. Solo sconfiggendo Ganon potrai salvare Zelda. - Only by defeating Ganon you'll be able to save Zelda. (yes, I love that videogame)
5. È acqua o vodka quella che stai bevendo? - Is it water or vodka you're drinking? (maybe 'is water or vodka what you're drinking?' a better translation?) [info] progressive
6. Il tuo gatto è stato avvelenato, ma dando questo antidoto lo guariremo. - Your cat has been poisoned, but by giving it this antidote we'll heal him.
7. Mi stai prendendo in giro? - Are you kidding me?

B) IMPERATIVE MOOD. Give these commands!
1. Eat it! Mangialo!
2. Kill him. Uccidilo
3. Say hi to her! Salutala!
4. Don't smoke! Non fumare!
5. Go out! Usciete!
6. Let him speak! Che parli!
7. Let's play! Giochiamo!
I'm not sure about 'dando' but hopefully that's alright. I think the infinitive in the imperative isn't totally weird; this might be a bit antiquated but it does appear in French (although also in the affirmative). I've seen it a lot in cookbooks, where the imperatives are a bit more impersonal and not as rude maybe? Anyway I have seen signs in museums saying 'ne pas toucher' and there are always the little signs telling you 'ne pas fumer'.

Also, dumb people on Facebook are always a source of hilarity/make me want to kill myself. I was (trying and) reading a Facebook post about how Ethiopians are all starving because of a 'curse' but her English was so terrible that it was impossible to know what the curse was. They (singular they) were also too stupid to realise that everyone in the comments was mocking them.
Alessio wrote:May I ask a question, Kanejam?
Of course, anytime! But please don't be fooled into thinking that I am any good at Latin. I am really quite terrible and basically need a dictionary anytime I want to say or read something. But I definitely know enough to tell you that Italian is much much closer to French than it is to Latin. The only real aspect that Italian errs towards Latin is that the personal inflections are still intact enough that you can drop a pronominal subject.

I think in terms of direct lineage, Sardinian might be a little bit closer, but Italian is certainly quite conservative phonologically when compared to French, so sometimes the connection between a word and the Latin form is clearer in Italian. But French and Italian both share a lot of vocab changes e.g. tête, teta, whereas the Latin for head is caput. So lexically Latin and Italian aren't any closer than Italian and any other Romance language. And then the morphosyntax is just so completely alien that you might as well give up; it's like comparing English and Russian. On top of the six cases there are no articles, as well as a passive voice, no conditional and a perfective aspect. Feel free to have a browse through my lessons [;)]
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by atman »

kanejam wrote: I think in terms of direct lineage, Sardinian might be a little bit closer, but Italian is certainly quite conservative phonologically when compared to French, so sometimes the connection between a word and the Latin form is clearer in Italian. But French and Italian both share a lot of vocab changes e.g. tête, teta, whereas the Latin for head is caput. So lexically Latin and Italian aren't any closer than Italian and any other Romance language.
Well, Sardinian is quite a bit closer to Latin, and is certainly the most conservative living Romance language. Insular isolation works miracles after all, but Italian and Corsican are fairly conservative too.
kanejam wrote: And then the morphosyntax is just so completely alien that you might as well give up; it's like comparing English and Russian. On top of the six cases there are no articles, as well as a passive voice, no conditional and a perfective aspect. Feel free to have a browse through my lessons [;)]
Latin morphosyntax might be "alien" to us, native speakers of Western European languages, but is absolutely normal in its own historical context. Latin is in fact a very typical older Indo-European language, and because of the similar vocabulary it's by far the easiest older I-E language to learn for Romance speakers like us, Alessio.

Every older I-E language had at least four or five cases (Tocharian and Lithuanian have/had a dozen)

Latin had no articles; Proto-Indo-European (the grandfather of all Indo-European languages) had no articles either

Synthetic passive voice ( :lat: amamur vs :ita: siamo amati); the former is typically Indo-European, the Italian use of the auxiliary verb essere is an innovation

No conditional in Latin (or Proto-IE); that's a Romance innovation

Subject-Object-Verb word order in :lat: (and PIE), Subject-Verb-Object in :ita:: Caesar malum edit vs Cesare mangia una mela (the literal translation of the latin would be Cesare una mela mangia)

Infinitive subordinates: Puto Caesarem malum edisse vs Credo che Cesare abbia mangiato una mela (literally Credo Cesare una mela avere mangiato)

Absolute constructions (using the ablative case in Latin, other cases in Ancient Greek, Sanskrit etc): Urbe capta, Romani... vs Dopo aver conquistato la città, i romani... (literally La città conquistata, i romani...)

... and many many more differences, all explainable by taking into account the PIE origin of Latin. And if you are curious about Proto-Indo-European itself, I've started a beginner's guide here: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=3170

Ciao! [:)]
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by Alessio »

Thank you very much for your explanations, Kanejam and Atman.
Just a few remarks for Kanejam.
1) In Italian we say "testa" ;) remember the circumflex "rule"?
2) Since you know about the existance of the Sardinian language, I'll exploit this to explain a difficult concept. What you call "dialect" in English is what we just define an accent; for us, Sardinian is a dialect of Italian. As you know, it's not! It's a completely different language that is, somewhere in its history, related to Italian. My own "dialect", called Emiliano e Romagnolo (Emiliâń e Rumagnôl) is closer to French than to Italian; some examples include (ENG corkscrew →) ITA cavatappi → EML tirabusöuń → FRA tire-bouchon, or (ENG stumble →) ITA inciampare → EML strabucher → FRA trébucher. Keep this in mind when I say "dialect": generally they are previous stages of vulgar Latin that didn't "die" when Tuscan was selected by Manzoni to write The Betrothed (I Promessi Sposi), creating officially the Italian language.
3) I don't know any dirty joke about that [:(] for sure there are some, but I don't know them. I think it's so common that we don't even notice it any more.
4) "Dando" is correct, but did you notice the bold "it"? It was a hint to make you remember that you had to use a dative there: giving him is "dandogli", as it merges with "gli" = (to) him/it (masculine).
5) Is "usciete" a typo? Uscire = 3rd conjugation, so "voi uscite" and hence "Uscite!".
6) Which one between Latin and Italian doesn't have a passive voice according to what you wrote? It looks like you're suggesting that Italian doesn't, but it does.

OK, what's next? I've realized that you already know many, many things about the Italian grammar. Now why don't we move on to some lexicon? Let's talk about the things you can find in a house!
NB: where the stressed vowel is <e> or <o>, where the stress is somewhere you wouldn't expect it (that is on the last-but-one syllable) and where there is one or more <z>, you'll find the pronunciation, otherwise you won't. Similarly, I'll only write the gender of nouns when they are irregular/unclear under this aspect.

BUILDING AND STUFF I DIDN'T KNOW WHERE TO PUT
Casa - House
Tetto /'tetːo/ - Roof
Porta /'pɔrta/ - Door
Finestra /fi'nεːstra/ - Window
Camino - Chimney, fireplace
Muro - Wall
Mattone /mat'toːne/ (m) - Brick
Piastrella /pja'strεlːa/ - Tile
Soffitto - Ceiling
Pavimento /pavi'mento/ - Floor (one of the Italian words that look exactly as their IPA representation!)
Abbaino /abːa'iːno/ - Dormer (don't say /ab'bai̯no/, as it's the 3pl present subjunctive of abbaiare, to bark)
Lampada /'lampada/ - Lamp (lightbulb = lampadina)
Lampadario /lampa'daːrjo/, candelabro (only for old ones made with candles) - Chandelier
Tappeto /tap'peːto/ - Carpet, rug
Chiave (f) - key
Serratura - keyhole
Chiavistello /kjavi'stεlːo/ - bolt
Tende /'tεnde/ (fp) - curtains

ROOMS
Ingresso /iŋ'grεsːo/ - Entry
Cucina - Kitchen
Sala da pranzo /'saːla da 'prandzo/ (f), sometimes just sala - Dining room
Corridoio /korːi'doːjo/ - Corridor
Camera da letto /'kamera da 'lεtːo/ (f) - Bedroom
Bagno - Toilet, bathroom
Soggiorno /sod'dʒorno/ - Living room
Camera degli ospiti (f) - Guest room
Scale (fp) - Stairs (scalinata - stairway)
Mansarda, soffitta, attico (only if habitable) - Attic
Autorimessa /au̯tori'mesːa/, garage /ga'raʒ/ (m; old people tend to pronounce /ga'radʒ/; it's a French loanword, of course) - Garage

FURNITURE AND ELECTRONIC APPLIANCES
Kitchen
Fornelli /for'nεlːi/ (mp) - Cooker
Forno /'forno/ - Oven
Frigorifero /frigo'rifero/, frigo - Fridge
Congelatore /kondʒela'toːre/ (m), freezer (m; English loanword, but we pronounce it /'friːdzer/) - Freezer (you don't say .-.)
(Forno a) microonde /'forno a mi'kronde~mikro'onde/ (m) - Microwave oven
Frullatore /frulːa'toːre/ (m) - Blender
Macinino da caffè - Coffee grinder
Credenza /kre'dεntsa/ - Cupboard
Mensola /'mεnsola/, scaffale - Shelf
Lavello /la'vεlːo/ - Kitchen sink

Dining room
Tavolo /'tavolo/ (the feminine form tavola is used equally) - Table
Sedia /'sεdja/ - Chair
Vetrina - Glass cabinet (from vetro, glass)

Living room
Divano, sofà (m) - Sofa (originally divano, from Latin di + vano = two places, meant a sofa with, you don't say, two places, and sofà meant one with three. Now the two forms are used with the same meaning)
Poltrona /pol'troːna/ - Armchair (it's the feminine of poltrone, lazybone...)
Televisore /televi'zoːre/ (m) - Television set (unfortunately, nowadays many people say televisione (f); it's generally accepted as correct, but not by Accademia della Crusca, that claims that televisione can only identify the set of programmes that are broadcast to the public. If you want to sound polished, say televisore: people will understand you anyways)
Orologio /oro'lɔːdʒo/ - Clock, watch
Pendola /'pεndola/, orologio a pendolo, orologio a muro - Grandfather clock

Bedroom
Letto /lεtːo/ - Bed
Comodino - Nightstand
Comò (m), cassettiera /kasːet'tjεːra/ - Chest of drawers
Armadio, guardaroba - Wardrobe
Scrivania /skriva'ni.a/ - Desk

Bathroom
Gabinetto /gabi'netːo/, tazza /'tattsa/ (also means "mug")- Toilet bowl
Lavandino - Bathroom sink
Bidet /bi'dε/ (m) - Bidet (who would ever imagine?)
Doccia /'dottʃa/ - Shower (have a shower = fare la doccia)
Vasca (da bagno) - Bathtub (have a bath = fare il bagno)
Specchio /'spεkːjo/ - Mirror

Tell me if I forgot anything ;) you don't have to learn this all at once, eh! Take your time.
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kanejam
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by kanejam »

1) Whoops :P I should have known that one!
2) Yes you did indeed mention the whole accent/dialect thing before. Can you understand a Sardinian? And could a Tuscan understand your dialect? Is there some sort of continuum from your dialect to the standard dialect to Sardinian? I suppose all outlying parts of Italy learn the standard language in school through reading and writing. As I understand this is basically the same as German? I wouldn't mind taking a detour and learning a little bit about the dialects, especially yours [:)]
4)-5) Whoops, these weren't typos, just mistakes.
6) I think atman filled in all the blanks I left; Italian's passive voice is periphrastic whereas Latin's passive voice is synthetic. It is shown through a change in the personal endings: edō, edis - 'I eat, you eat'; edor, ederis - 'I am eaten, you are eaten' (although it could also be progressive present I'm eating etc. as the two aren't separate in Latin).

And yes Latin is very typical for an old IE language; Ancient Greek and Sanskrit are similar morphologically and so are the reconstructions of Proto-Germanic, Proto-Slavic etc. When I said the grammar is 'alien', I did indeed mean from a Western European viewpoint. Where we tend towards isolating (especially English), the older languages where much more synthetic.

I've had a look over the vocab but it will take a few tries to get it all in my head.
Alessio
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Re: Corso d'Italiano - Italian Lessons

Post by Alessio »

Yeah, it's a lot of words, but I thought it would be better to put them all in one place rather than in different posts, so that you have only one place where you know you can look when you need those words.

For what regards the "dialects":
-No, I can't understand Sardinian. That's actually quite strange, isn't it? I can't understand Neapolitan, either.
-Yes, a Tuscan would understand my dialect, but just because Tuscany and Emilia-Romagna are very close (Google translates this verb, confinare, in a way I don't think is correct - what I want to say is that they touch each other) so they're kind of "used" to hearing people speaking in EML. However, I'm pretty sure they don't understand Sardinian or Neapolitan, like I do.
-As far as I know, yes, it's the same as German.

Are you really interested in Emilian (let's just call it like this, otherwise it takes hours to write the full name every time)? Well, it's mostly a spoken language, so it's difficult to write in it, that's mainly why I gave up the idea of starting an Emilian course eventually. Moreover, each province - if not each town - has its own dialect (this time I mean the official meaning dialect, but dialects of Emilian, not of Italian). Fortunately I live near Modena, the capital of my province, and also not very far from Bologna, the capital of Emilia-Romagna, so my dialect is quite standard. What I'm sure applies to all the dialects of Emilian is:
-The presence of nasal vowels indicated with <ń> after the vowel (especially in Bolognese, I've seen pages on the Emilian wikipedia where they just leave out the acute in other dialects);
-The phonemic distinction between short and long vowels, indicated with a circumflex, whereas in Italian vowel length is applied to some vowels but not distinctive;
-A strong lenition, reminding of Spanish;
-The absence of /ts/ and /dz/ but the presence of /s̪/ and /z̪/ instead (in facts, I tend to realize /ts/ as [s̪] myself; the precise Tuscan realization is [t̪s̪], so basically I leave out the [t]);
-The absence of /ʃ/ but the presence of /stʃ/ (absent in Italian) instead;
-Especially in the Romagna (Forlì-Ravenna-Rimini-eastern Bologna-eastern Ferrara) varieties of the accent, the realization of /ʃ/ as [ʂ], a thing that made them famous all around Italy, and by far the most known "speech impediment" of Emilian speakers.
Grammatically, there is a comitative case for pronouns (that comes directly from Latin: meco, teco, seco → mêg, têg, sêg) and a special feature that I call double subject: there are two sets of subject pronouns, one tonic (mè, tè, ló...) and one atone (a, et, al). While the tonic pronouns can be implied like in Italian, the atone can't and must always be present, even if the corresponding tonic pronoun is already present in the sentence.
Most of the lexicon is derived from Italian and French (I'd say 50%-40%), where a 10% is derived from different languages like German, Celtic, Etruscan (that, as far as they tell us, had a big influence on the grammar; I don't know Etruscan so I can't but trust them), old Lombard and even old Latin (a quite famous example is incô, today, derived from Latin in hac die, in this day). Emilian is considered a gallic language (Gallo-Italic), and not a romance language.
If you're interested in Emiliâń e Rumagnôl, you can find a page on the Italian wikipedia (also on the English one, but it's shorter) at the URL http://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lingua_emiliano-romagnola. Below, in the section "Dialetti", you can pick one and learn a lot about it in its dedicated page. I'm surprised how detailed those pages are myself. The writing they adopt is just one of the many varieties one can come across, but it's the one I prefer. Enjoy! ;)

Last answer: yes, we all learn the same language, although there were many proposal to teach, alongside with Italian, the local language to children, choosing the variety spoken in the provincial capital. Unfortunately it didn't happen; even if I was younger back then, I strongly agreed, as our culture is unique and our dialect is the only way to preserve it.

Back to Italian! Today it's Sunday, so a short lesson will be enough. I'll introduce the comparatives.
As you know, adjectives (and even adverbs) can have three degrees: positive, comparative and superlative. Then, there are three comparatives (majority, minority and equality) and two superlatives (relative and absolute).
To form a majority comparative, always use the word più, more. Introduce the second term of the comparison with di, which will merge with articles normally.

Sono più bello di te. - I'm more beautiful than you.
Il mio cane è più bello del tuo. - My dog is more beautiful than yours.

If the two terms have different genders, the adjective must agree with the first term.

Lui è più bello di lei. - He's more beautiful than her.

Minority comparatives are quite rare. To form there, use the word meno /meːno/, less.

Sono meno bello di te. - I'm less beautiful than you.

In place of a minority comparative, you'll generally find either a majority comparative, using the opposite of the adjective, or a negative equality comparative, as in English. To form an affirmative equality comparative, there are mainly two ways: with tanto... quanto (tanto can be implied; lit. much... as much), and with come (how, like).

Sono (tanto) bello quanto te.
Sono bello come te.

Generally, come is used with a slightly different meaning; it sounds more like a paragon thing, one you'd use in sentences like "you're beautiful just like the sun". Both forms are correct, though.
Needless to say, you can form a negative equality comparative just by negating the verb.

Non sono bello quanto te. - I'm not as beautiful as you (= I'm less beautiful).

Some majority comparatives are irregular.
Buono (good) → migliore /miʎ'ʎoːre/ (better)
Cattivo (bad) → peggiore /ped'dʒoːre/ (worse)
Bene (well) → meglio /'mεʎːo/ (better [adverb])
Male (badly) → peggio /'pεddʒo/ (worse [adverb])
Presto /'prεsto/ (soon, early) → prima (sooner, earlier)
Grande (big) → maggiore /mad'dʒoːre/ (bigger) --------> "più grande" is possible and by far more common.
Piccolo (small) → minore /mi'noːre/ (smaller) --------> "più piccolo" is possible and by far more common.
WATCH OUT! Maggiore ≠ major and minore ≠ minor! They can only be used as majority comparatives, not as positive adjectives.

Enough for today! Exercises!
Complete these comparatives. Don't forget the particles needed to introduce the second term, and watch out for articles.
1. Il mio inglese è __________ (cattivo) il tuo. - My English is worse than yours.
2. Un topo è ____________ (grande) una pantegana. - A mouse is less big than a sewer rat.
3. Erica ____ è ____________ (bella) te. - Heather is not as beautiful as you.
4. I ghepardi sono _______________ (veloci) i leoni. - Cheetahs are faster than lions.
5. Un arancio è ________________ (aspro) un limone. - An orange is less sour than a lemon.
6. Reggio nell'Emilia è __________________ (popolata) Modena. - Reggio nell'Emilia is as populated as Modena.
7. Per vincere, dovrai arrivare _________________ (presto) me. - In order to win, you'll have to arrive [to the goal] earlier than me.
8. Come stai oggi? ___________ (bene) ieri! - How are you today? Better than yesterday! (notice: IT. "how do you stay")
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Tin't inameint ca tót a sàm stê żōv'n e un po' cajoun, mo s't'armâgn cajoun an vōl ménga dîr t'armâgn anc żōven...
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