The Sixth Conversation Thread

[Dormouse559]

Here's a holiday quiz for all of you. Which Christmas carol reverses the animacy hierarchy for all the verses except the last?

"Do You Hear What I Hear?" with its "Said the little lamb to the shepherd boy" and such.

[eldin raigmore]

I don’t know which singer sang it, but:

Said the night wind to the little lamb,
“Do you see what I see?”

“No I don’t”, said the little lamb.
“I don’t see what you see:”

“‘Cause you’re a wind, blowing in the night,
“And you don’t have the power of sight.”

....

It’s a much shorter carol.

Just as “Bambi meets Godzilla” is a very short film.

[Khemehekis]

Here's a holiday quiz for all of you. Which Christmas carol reverses the animacy hierarchy for all the verses except the last?

"Do You Hear What I Hear?" with its "Said the little lamb to the shepherd boy" and such.

You got it

Very good.

[Khemehekis]

This year, I got the Japanese Rényi Picture Dictionary. Here's a screenshot:

[shimobaatar]

Happy New Year (from UTC-5), everyone!

[Khemehekis]

Guzhiet Oiri Prin!
enjoy-IMPRTV year new
Happy New Year!

[elemtilas]

George Boeree, creator of Lingua Franca Nova, has recently died.

[Khemehekis]

George Boeree, creator of Lingua Franca Nova, has recently died.

Oh no.

I did once post in Boeree's LFN Facebook group asking how to say "skateboard" in Lingua Franca Nova. Boeree came up with scet.

[Khemehekis]

This webpage refers to "the late Gary Shannon".

It comes as quite the shock to me to read this page and learn that Gary Shannon has passed away! I remember him giving him a copy of the LCV many years ago, and was taken aback to read "the late" before his name without previously reading that he had passed away.

Can anybody confirm that Gary has, indeed, departed this world? I didn't find anything about it by googling his name.

[Pabappa]

I have never heard of him, but the name fiziwig does ring a bell, so i did some searching .... no obituary, but it seems he was born in the early 1940s, so he'd be close to eighty now if still alive. I assume the present fiziwig.com is run by a family member, though it seems it hasnt been updated in several years. The lack of information about Mr Shannon on the Internet may be a sign that he transferred his domain name to a family member many years before he died.

[elemtilas]

I have never heard of him, but the name fiziwig does ring a bell, so i did some searching .... no obituary, but it seems he was born in the early 1940s, so he'd be close to eighty now if still alive. I assume the present fiziwig.com is run by a family member, though it seems it hasnt been updated in several years. The lack of information about Mr Shannon on the Internet may be a sign that he transferred his domain name to a family member many years before he died.

Gary was a regular on Conlang-L ages ago.

[Linguifex]

Gary was a regular on Conlang-L ages ago.

And he had an absolutely wonderful list of derivational operations.

[Khemehekis]

Sign into www.vulgarlang.com and post the language the program invents.

Spoiler:

The Language of Shawlpuian
Natively known as: Shawlpu /ˈʃɔlpu/
...and he stood holding his hat and turned his wet face to the wind...
ru ýéw dak ýénnu ýéw rimpé ru réý ýéw nomwe duk u hamum
Pronunciation: /ru ʎɛw ɾak ʎɛnˈnu ʎɛw ˈrimpɛ ru rɛʎ ʎɛw ˈnomwe ɾuk u ˈhamum/
Shawlpuian word order: and he stood holding his hat and turned his wet face to the wind
Spelling & Phonology
Consonant inventory: /f h j k l m n p r t w ɾ ʃ ʎ/

Click IPA symbols for audio

↓Manner/Place→ Bilabial Labiodental Alveolar Palato-alveolar Palatal Velar Glottal
Nasal m n
Stop p t k
Fricative f ʃ h
Approximant j
Tap ɾ
Trill r
Lateral approximant l ʎ

Co-articulated phonemes

↓Manner/Place→ Labial-velar
Approximant w

Vowel inventory: /a e i o u ɔ ɛ/

Front Back
High i u
High-mid e o
Low-mid ɛ ɔ
Low a
Syllable structure: (C)V(C) ?
Stress pattern: No fixed stress ?
Word initial consonants: f, h, k, l, n, p, r, ɾ, ʃ, ʎ
Mid-word consonants: f, ff, fh, fj, fl, fm, fp, ft, fw, fʃ, h, hm, hr, ht, hw, hɾ, j, jf, jl, jm, jr, jʃ, k, kj, kk, km, kn, kr, kɾ, l, lh, lj, lk, lp, lt, lw, m, mh, mk, mm, mp, mr, mt, mw, mɾ, n, nn, nr, nt, nɾ, p, pj, pk, pm, pn, pp, pw, r, rj, rk, rn, t, tf, tj, tk, tm, tr, tw, tʃ, w, wk, wm, wp, ww, wɾ, ɾ, ɾf, ɾh, ɾl, ɾn, ɾʃ, ʃ, ʃl, ʃm, ʃp, ʃr, ʎ, ʎʎ
Word final consonants: k, l, m, p, r, w, ɾ, ʃ, ʎ
Phonological changes (in order of application): ?

o → u / _#
u → ∅ / _a
{m,p} → [+velar] / _w
k → g / a_a
a → o / _m#
j → ʤ / #_
j → ʝ / #_V
e → a / _n
u → o / _k#
iw → uj / _#
i → u / _ju

How to read phonological rules
Spelling rules:

Pronunciation Spelling
ɔ aw
ɛ é
ɾ d
j y
ʃ sh
ʎ ý
Grammar
Main word order: Subject Verb Object (Prepositional phrase). "Mary opened the door with a key" turns into Mary opened the door with a key.
Adjective order: Adjectives are positioned before the noun.
Adposition: prepositions ?

Nouns
Singular No affix
hane /ˈhane/
dog
Plural Prefix ɛ-
éhane /ɛˈhane/
dogs


Articles
Definite Indefinite
Singular dim /ɾim/
the
sho /ʃo/
a
Plural a /a/
the
pe /pe/
some


Uses of definite article that differ from English:

Used to talk about countable nouns in general: English’s ‘I like cats’ would translate to ‘I like the cats’

Pronouns
1st singular na /na/
I, me, mine
2nd singular la /la/
you, yours
3rd singular masc ýéw /ʎɛw/
he, him, his, it, its
3rd singular fem ré /rɛ/
she, her, hers, it, its
1st plural ýo /ʎo/
we, us, ours
2nd plural sho /ʃo/
you all, yours (pl)
3rd plural am /am/
they, them, theirs


Possessive determiners
1st singular na /na/
my
2nd singular la /la/
your
3rd singular masc ýéw /ʎɛw/
his
3rd singular fem ré /rɛ/
her
1st plural ýo /ʎo/
our
2nd plural sho /ʃo/
your (pl)
3rd plural am /am/
their


Verbs
Present No affix
dantim /ˈɾantim/
learn
Past Prefix po-
podantim /poˈɾantim/
learned
Future If starts with vowel: Prefix p-
Else: Prefix pa-
padantim /ˈpaɾantim/
will learn



Progressive aspect

The ‘progressive’ aspect refers to actions that are happening at the time of speaking, such as I am learning.

Shawlpuian uses an affix for progressive:

Progressive If starts with vowel: Prefix ʎ-
Else: Prefix ʎɛ-
ýédantim /ˈʎɛɾantim/
is learning


Habitual aspect

The ‘habitual’ aspect refers to actions that happen habitually, such as I learn (something new every day), as opposed to actions that happen once (I learned something).

Shawlpuian uses an affix for habitual:
Habitual Prefix i-
idantim /ˈiɾantim/
learns


Numbers

Shawlpuian has a base-10 number system:

1 - nil
2 - di
3 - nam
4 - ki
5 - haw
6 - ýélawkyé
7 - awa
8 - ri
9 - kiw
10 - hawý
11 - nil ru hawý “one and ten”
100 - nil rarud “one hundred”
101 - nil rarud ru nil “one hundred and one”
200 - di rarud
1000 - nil néka “one thousand”
Derivational morphology

Adjective → adverb = Prefix e-
Adjective → noun (the quality of being [adj]) = If starts with vowel: Prefix k-
Else: Prefix ka-
Adjective → verb (to make something [adj]) = Prefix pɔ-
Noun → adjective (having the quality of [noun]) = Prefix ri-
Noun → adjective relating to noun (e.g. economy → economic) = If starts with vowel: Prefix ɾ-
Else: Prefix ɾu-
Noun to verb = If starts with vowel: Prefix ʎ-
Else: Prefix ʎo-
Verb → adjective (result of doing [verb]) = If starts with vowel: Prefix k-
Else: Prefix kɔ-
Tending to = If starts with vowel: Prefix ɾ-
Else: Prefix ɾi-
Verb → noun (the act of [verb]) = If starts with vowel: Prefix f-
Else: Prefix fɛ-
Verb → noun that verb produces (e.g. know → knowledge) = If starts with vowel: Prefix ɾ-
Else: Prefix ɾa-
One who [verb]s (e.g. paint → painter) = If starts with vowel: Prefix p-
Else: Prefix pa-
Place of (e.g. wine → winery) = Prefix lɔ-
Diminutive = If starts with vowel: Prefix l-
Else: Prefix la-
Augmentative = If starts with vowel: Prefix f-
Else: Prefix fu-
Shawlpuian - English Dictionary

Key: spelling /pronunciation/ part of speech. definition(s)

adj: adjective | adv: adverb | art: article | conj: conjunction | det: determiner | interj: interjection | n: noun | prep: preposition | pron: pronoun | v: verb

a /a/ prep. from
ahwim /aˈhwim/ adv. almost
ala /ˈala/ n. doll, puppet
alkawké /ˈalkɔkɛ/ n. cat
am /am/ pron. they, them, theirs
anral /ˈanral/ n. paste
ashriý /ˈaʃriʎ/ n. gun, rifle, pistol
awmék /ˈawmɛk/ n. parcel, package, bundle
da /ɾa/ prep. for (in favor of)
dafta /ɾafˈta/ n. siege
dakku /ˈɾakku/ n. song
damdé /ˈɾamɾɛ/ v. charge
dampé /ɾamˈpɛ/ v. taste
dapo /ˈɾapo/ n. theater
darush /ˈɾaruʃ/ n. knowledge
dash /ɾaʃ/ prep. like
datshawdhi /ˈɾatʃɔɾhi/ n. chemical
daymawwé /ˈɾajmɔwɛ/ n. rate
dihawfshiw /ˈɾihɔfʃiw/ adj. crtical
dilod /ˈɾiloɾ/ n. frost
dip /ɾip/ n. instrument, appliance, device, apparatus, accessory
dirish /ɾiˈriʃ/ adj. wrong
diwi /ɾiˈwi/ n. bottle
duffad /ˈɾuffaɾ/ v. guess, estimate
dul /ɾul/ v. let, allow
dunem /ˈɾunem/ adj. academic
dur rimpé /ɾur ˈrimpɛ/ n. helmet
duý /ɾuʎ/ n. offer
enim /ˈenim/ adv. clearly
fé /fɛ/ v. be (permanent state)
fédiled /ˈfɛɾileɾ/ n. completion
féffi /ˈfɛffi/ n. plan, strategy, program
féfwép /ˈfɛfwɛp/ n. expert, specialist
féka /fɛˈka/ v. hang
féku /ˈfɛku/ v. watch, monitor, spectate, follow
félhup /ˈfɛlhup/ n. sign, signal, alarm, siren
fémki /ˈfɛmki/ n. detail
féniwo /ˈfɛniwo/ n. appearance (act of appearing)
fépéltew /ˈfɛpɛltew/ n. behavior
fésh /fɛʃ/ conj. since
féshonreý /ˈfɛʃonreʎ/ n. existence
féwo /fɛˈwo/ n. size
féysho /ˈfɛjʃo/ n. menu
fifyawlé /ˈfifjɔlɛ/ n. conquest
fimhesh /fimˈheʃ/ n. weight
finrul /ˈfinrul/ n. fight
fishi /fiˈʃi/ n. movement, motion
fiwpé /ˈfiwpɛ/ n. painting
fudishléw /ˈfuɾiʃlɛw/ n. trunk (of tree)
fultuw /ˈfultuw/ pron. everybody
fupma /fupˈma/ v. wonder
fuwmash /fuwˈmaʃ/ v. graduate
hadlaý /haˈɾlaʎ/ v. sneeze
hahaw /haˈhaw/ v. ask, request, appeal, inquire, consult
halém /ˈhalɛm/ det. whatever
hamum /ˈhamum/ n. wind, breeze
hane /haˈne/ n. dog
har /har/ n. country
hatsha /ˈhatʃa/ adj. high, loud, noisy
hawfe /hɔˈfe/ v. desire, crave
hawk /hɔk/ n. hair (of head)
hawlu /hɔˈlu/ v. drown, suffocate
hawmwa /ˈhɔmwa/ n. factory, mill
hawshmi /hɔʃˈmi/ prep. across
haww /hɔw/ n. pot
hawysho /ˈhɔjʃo/ n. saliva
huk /huk/ v. kiss
idil /ˈiɾil/ n. company
ike /ˈike/ adj. empty, vacant, hollow
ilyi /ˈilji/ n. mass
ish /iʃ/ n. force
iyshi /ijˈʃi/ pron. anybody
kafipé /ˈkafipɛ/ n. subtlety
kak /kak/ n. prostitute
kalka /ˈkalka/ n. bullet
kande /kaˈnɾe/ n. stream
kapko /kapˈko/ n. nature
karyap /ˈkarjap/ v. ride
katshé /ˈkatʃɛ/ n. curve
kawfmér /ˈkɔfmɛr/ n. earthquake
kawm /kɔm/ n. breakfast
kawp /kɔp/ adj. cute
kawshotké /ˈkɔʃotkɛ/ n. shade
kawwi /ˈkɔwi/ v. borrow, hire, rent
kaysha /kajˈʃa/ n. list, catalog
kaýýe /ˈkaʎʎe/ v. visit
kék /kɛk/ n. west
kémka /ˈkɛmka/ n. bridge
kéylum /kɛˈjlum/ n. scissors
kikdé /kiˈkɾɛ/ n. tradition
kimrék /ˈkimrɛk/ adj. fair, just
kitmuk /ˈkitmuk/ n. crack
ku /ku/ v. take, receive
kumpa /ˈkumpa/ n. average
kuýash /ˈkuʎaʃ/ n. flesh
laloko /laˈloko/ adj. cheap
lawdfu /ˈlɔɾfu/ n. possibility
lawflé /lɔˈflɛ/ n. machine
lawhem /lɔˈhem/ n. thorn
lawkmi /ˈlɔkmi/ v. serve, treat
lawlum /ˈlɔlum/ adv. else
lawné /lɔˈnɛ/ n. bark (of tree)
lawpka /lɔpˈka/ v. cast, fling, shoot, hurl
lawtku /ˈlɔtku/ n. guide
lawýer /ˈlɔʎer/ n. laboratory
lel /lel/ n. fish
lesh /leʃ/ n. base
loa /ˈloa/ n. military
lohém /loˈhɛm/ det. both
lol /lol/ n. sword
lompu /ˈlompu/ n. hotel, inn, lodge
loshlup /ˈloʃlup/ v. smell (emit odour), stink
loýýawtu /ˈloʎʎɔtu/ n. journey, tour, voyage
nahral /ˈnahral/ adj. furious
nalka /ˈnalka/ adv. later
nap /nap/ prep. between
nash rashu /naʃ ˈraʃu/ n. toast
nawm /nɔm/ n. tide
né /nɛ/ adj. old, antique
néfu /nɛˈfu/ n. eye, eyeball
nékyé /ˈnɛkjɛ/ n. town, population, village
nemaw /ˈnemaw/ v. listen
nepa /ˈnepa/ n. wealth
nésh /nɛʃ/ adj. big, large
néwmik /ˈnɛwmik/ v. eat, bite
nid /niɾ/ n. hallway, corridor
nihrél /ˈnihrɛl/ v. stop, halt
nilyé /ˈniljɛ/ adj. gay, homosexual
nip /nip/ n. expression
niw /niw/ v. walk
no /no/ adv. always, all the time
nohmaý /nohˈmaʎ/ n. bench
noltér /ˈnoltɛr/ v. agree, admit, accept
nop /nop/ conj. or
nop /nop/ v. help, assist, cater
nor /nor/ n. series
nu /nu/ n. issue, concern
nultaý /nulˈtaʎ/ adj. worth
nur /nur/ v. enjoy
pad /paɾ/ v. increase, expand, raise
pakifye /paˈkifje/ n. dancer
palolawyshé /ˈpaloˌlɔjʃɛ/ n. criminal
papawýek /ˈpapɔʎek/ n. sailor
pash /paʃ/ n. chest
pawffa /ˈpɔffa/ n. fence
pawk /pɔk/ v. raise, elevate, erect
pawkror /ˈpɔkror/ v. arrive
pawne /pɔˈne/ n. administration
pawrka /pɔrˈka/ adj. safe
pawýek /ˈpɔʎek/ v. sail, navigate
paýéle /ˈpaʎɛle/ n. employer
pe /pe/ det. some
péhted /pɛhˈteɾ/ v. turn on
péltéý /ˈpɛltɛʎ/ n. stage
pép /pɛp/ n. angle
peý /peʎ/ n. metal
poflu /ˈpoflu/ n. meat
polam /ˈpolam/ adj. slow
ponrawhed /poˈnrɔheɾ/ n. noise
porawdfo /ˈporɔɾfo/ n. cigarette, cigar
powdup /ˈpowɾup/ adj. fun
rakde /raˈkɾe/ adv. apart
raké /ˈrakɛ/ v. chase
rammush /ramˈmuʃ/ adj. vague, fuzzy
rarki /rarˈki/ v. lend, loan
ratwo /ˈratwo/ v. receive, acquire
ré /rɛ/ det. her
réhtim /rɛhˈtim/ n. nail
rél /rɛl/ v. thank
rémpe /ˈrɛmpe/ n. quarter
réppé /rɛpˈpɛ/ v. touch
réshu /ˈrɛʃu/ adj. equal, equivalent
réwé /rɛˈwɛ/ v. limp
ridid /ˈriɾiɾ/ adj. bloody
rihaki /ˈrihaki/ adj. beautiful
rikilye /ˈrikilje/ adj. lucky
rimew /ˈrimew/ n. transport
rinétroka /riˈnɛtroˌka/ adj. young
ririr /riˈrir/ n. coin
ritshu /ˈritʃu/ adj. attractive
ru /ru/ v. lack
ruku /ˈruku/ adj. naval
rush /ruʃ/ v. know (a fact), know (be acquainted with)
ruý /ruʎ/ v. like
shawhmul /ˈʃɔhmul/ interj. welcome
shawknep /ˈʃɔknep/ n. thumb
shawltad /ʃɔlˈtaɾ/ n. neighbor
shawryaw /ˈʃɔrjaw/ n. guest, patron
shawyék /ˈʃɔjɛk/ n. bag, suitcase, baggage
shéd /ʃɛɾ/ n. model, prototype
sheltaw /ʃelˈtaw/ n. present, gift
sheshma /ʃeʃˈma/ v. leak
sho /ʃo/ pron. you all, yours (pl)
shofshep /ˈʃofʃep/ n. fruit
shoku /ʃoˈku/ v. catch, grab, clutch, grasp, grip
sholhiw /ʃolˈhiw/ v. sink
shonawmda /ˈʃonɔmɾa/ v. chew
shosh /ʃoʃ/ n. shape, form, pattern, style, fashion, tone, kind
u /u/ adv. off
umhash /umˈhaʃ/ n. rank (position), hierarchy
uýýa /uʎˈʎa/ v. invite
ýefa /ʎeˈfa/ v. trade
ýék /ʎɛk/ v. boil
ýélpoti /ˈʎɛlpoti/ n. nephew
ýémaw /ˈʎɛmaw/ n. education
ýep /ʎep/ conj. when
ýesh /ʎeʃ/ v. tell, announce
ýétki /ˈʎɛtki/ n. pair, duo
ýéwdap /ˈʎɛwɾap/ n. insurance
ýid /ʎiɾ/ adj. stubborn
ýish /ʎiʃ/ n. start, beginning
ýodaymawwé /ˈʎoɾajˌmɔwɛ/ v. rate
ýohwem /ʎoˈhwem/ n. progress, breakthrough
ýoltar /ˈʎoltar/ v. frown
ýomdawta /ˈʎomɾɔta/ n. eyelid
ýopéw /ˈʎopɛw/ v. authorize
ýotshe /ˈʎotʃe/ n. mathematics
ýoyshi /ʎojˈʃi/ n. morning