The Sixth Conversation Thread

[elemtilas]

i decided "well, i'm gonna go to https://thispersondoesnotexist.com for inspiration for characters". the pictures are quite vivid: you really get a feeling of this is a person, and the act of letting one's eyes rest on the face and just imagine things about the person is very effective. the only side effect is that hitting F5 on that site now kinda gives me vicarious existential dread.

And then you get the occasional splinched figure to the side of the main face.

[Torco]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

[elemtilas]

AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

What was that AI smoking when it came up with that!

[eldin raigmore]

(just moved your post here, Eldin. Didn't seem to warrant its own thread, but to the point...)

Guy Fawkes Day, as a sole holiday, didn’t warrant a thread by itself in my opinion.
I thought maybe all holidays, in general, would.

Veterans' Day and Singles' Day

In the USA and I guess about 12 countries strongly affected by the First World War (including Canada, UK, and Australia, IIANM), today is Veterans' Day.
On 11/11 at 11, or 11:11, or 11:11:11, we do something to celebrate the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month; to celebrate the eleventh-hour escape of Civilization from some disaster, and the veterans who participated in helping us escape.
I suppose in future we might include the globe's escape from this pandemic, or from climate change.

In certain other countries, and for all I know also some of the same ones, it's Singles' Day.
Because of all the 1s in 11/11 11:11:11, you see.

I wonder if there's a couples' day at 22:22:22 on 2/22 in countries that use a 24 hour clock?

[Salmoneus]

(just moved your post here, Eldin. Didn't seem to warrant its own thread, but to the point...)

Guy Fawkes Day, as a sole holiday, didn’t warrant a thread by itself in my opinion.
I thought maybe all holidays, in general, would.

Veterans' Day and Singles' Day

In the USA and I guess about 12 countries strongly affected by the First World War (including Canada, UK, and Australia, IIANM), today is Veterans' Day.
On 11/11 at 11, or 11:11, or 11:11:11, we do something to celebrate the eleventh hour of the eleventh day of the eleventh month; to celebrate the eleventh-hour escape of Civilization from some disaster, and the veterans who participated in helping us escape.
I suppose in future we might include the globe's escape from this pandemic, or from climate change.

Not including the UK, now, and I don't believe Australia or Canada either.

Here, the same day is marked, but, at least in the UK, as "Remembrance Day". Although veterans are inevitably a part of the concept, the focus is not on veterans, or even on escape/victory, but on the remembrance of loss and sacrifice. [the role of veterans is a matter of low-level but perennial discontent: the government and the far right always want more emphasis on the military, whereas the left and most civil society groups tend to want more emphasis on civilians and the bereaved and so forth). Instead of "doing something", we do nothing: there's a national two minutes of silence at 11. And of course the national ceremony of tracking down and yelling obscenities and death threats and anyone who'se not wearing the Poppy.

The bigger ceremony is on Remembrance Sunday instead; this is the nearest Sunday to Remembrance Day. It's when the national remembrance ceremony at the Cenotaph takes place, and many local ceremonies, although some do happen on Remembrance Day itself. There's also a second (or first, in some years) two minutes' silence on Remembrance Sunday, but this is less observed and less societally important - largely, I think, because it's not inconvenient. The two minute's silence on the 11th itself is generally observed at schools and very often in workplaces, making it unavoidable, whereas the one on the Sunday happens just before Sunday lunch, and is easily overlooked if you don't have the radio or the television on at the time. [there's also usually a minute's silence at the start of the Premiership matches that weekend]

Remembrance Day is sometimes still referred to as Armistice Day, perhaps in part to distinguish it from Remembrance Sunday. The 2018 Remembrance Day was widely referred to as Armistice Day, for obvious reason.

New Labour attempted to introduce a Veteran's Day, as part of rallying support behind their Afghan and Iraqi wars. It's still around, but it's now called Armed Forces' Day, and most people don't really pay attention to it.

[elemtilas]

Not including the UK, now, and I don't believe Australia or Canada either.

Here, the same day is marked, but, at least in the UK, as "Remembrance Day". Although veterans are inevitably a part of the concept, the focus is not on veterans, or even on escape/victory, but on the remembrance of loss and sacrifice. (...)


New Labour attempted to introduce a Veteran's Day, as part of rallying support behind their Afghan and Iraqi wars. It's still around, but it's now called Armed Forces' Day, and most people don't really pay attention to it.

Yeah, I'm not sure what the "escape" and "victory" are referring to. In the US, the day was long called Armistice Day, and was simply the recognition that hostilities had come to an end. This was by no means the end of the war --- just an interruption in the Morrigan's festivities until a formal end of war and declaration of peace could be sorted out. After which, everyone could get ready for the next Great War.

As I understand it, Armistice Day, like the modern Veterans Day, has always been military & especially veteran centric in the US. We're very big on our military and their service to country & world. You know, liberty and freedom and other excellent Enlightenment ideals that most Americans have no effing clue what they even entail. Loss and remembrance and sacrifice are all part and parcel. We usually have parades and various civic events of a high patriotic sort. We even used to have poppies (not real poppies, but little poppies made of paper & cloth), though without the yelling of obscenities at each other.

The other big military / veteran holiday is Decoration Day (aka Memorial Day). This one dates back to the US Civil War era and is specifically for calling to mind those who have died in service. It's tended to become pretty much synonymous with Armistice Day / Veterans Day in that most people just end up celebrating the service of all active and veteran military, regardless of their being dead or not.

Though anymore it's become just another day for sales and shopping.

[Egerius]

Germany (more realistically, Cologne) celebrates the beginning of a mysterious “fifth season” (i.e. carnival season) each 11th November at 11:11 (AM).
The German version of “Rememberance Day”, Volkstrauertag (which bemournes every soul lost to war, be it “veteran” or “cvilian”) is observed on the penultimate Sunday before advent (for 2020, it's tomorrow).
And I say observed, not celebrated, because dancing and parties are not allowed (a so-called “quiet day”).
TL; DR: War is a pain. Best is to not deal with it.

[elemtilas]

Germany (more realistically, Cologne) celebrates the beginning of a mysterious “fifth season” (i.e. carnival season) each 11th November at 11:11 (AM).
The German version of “Rememberance Day”, Volkstrauertag (which bemournes every soul lost to war, be it “veteran” or “cvilian”) is observed on the penultimate Sunday before advent (for 2020, it's tomorrow).
And I say observed, not celebrated, because dancing and parties are not allowed (a so-called “quiet day”).
TL; DR: War is a pain. Best is to not deal with it.

You're returned!

A "quiet day" seems a Good Thing -- at least you aren't reminded for a week before and a week after that you really do need to buy a new car or a new mattress!

As for the final sentiment, that is indeed an interesting reversal considering how it's viewed here.

[Salmoneus]

Germany (more realistically, Cologne) celebrates the beginning of a mysterious “fifth season” (i.e. carnival season) each 11th November at 11:11 (AM).

My home county in England also has a carnival season of sorts, but earlier. Each place has a one-night carnival, with the carnivals progressing toward the county town, culminating on Bonfire Night. [hence, although Bonfire Night is a big deal here, Guy Fawkes was traditionally less important - our town had Bonfire Night (/Carnival) in September, and Guy Fawkes was just a night for fireworks displays.] This was quite a notable event at my school, not only because a lot of us would be participating in Carnival, but also because there's a group of Showmen who follow the Carnival, and as a result the field next to my school's playground would suddenly one night sprout a funfair for the two weeks leading up to Carnival. [no lions or anything, but various theme park rides and the like]

Cancelled this year, of course.

[Salmoneus]

OK, here's another cultural "what is in this picture?" question...

Observe:
a street in Japan.

What are the bamboo things down each side of the street? What are they for? How common are they? Interestingly they appear in this one street in three different styles: curved with base far from building (front right), mostly straight and near to building (with curve above) (distance), and highly curved but not touching ground (front left).

I assume they're to protect the buildings somehow? But this seems counterintuitive. Protect them from what? They're obviously not going to prevent a major impact. And the buildings have timber walls - not mud or straw or whatever - so it's not as though they'd be that vulneable to passing foot traffic. It seems counterintuitive to protect a wall that's hard to damage by covering it in something that must be expensive (even if the bamboo is dirt cheap, that's a lot of labour to attach all those laths!), that's easier to damage than the wall, and that reduces the width of the street (making contact more likely). If there's a concern about, I don't know, donkeys carrying over-wide poles down the street, scratching the walls, then the arrangement of the screens seems less than optimal - all those laths give all those many chances for something to catch between the laths and rip one (or more) off. (a solid screen, or lathes parallel to the direction of travel, would seem more practical in this regard).

Also worth noting: they're not essential, since the buildings at the end of the street don't have them. And so far as I'm aware the equivalent doesn't occur in European architecture, even back when buildings were timber and plaster, even more vulnerable than these Japanese all-timber facades.

So is it something else? Is it... something to do with rainwater? Or is it intentional street-narrowing? If they all touched the ground, I might think they were covering something (a gutter, or a trapdoor), but the front left ones show that the ground is not the focus of the concept. Or maybe they're an air-conditional device, and there's a gap in the wall behind them?

[elemtilas]

OK, here's another cultural "what is in this picture?" question...

Observe:
a street in Japan.

What are the bamboo things down each side of the street? What are they for? How common are they? Interestingly they appear in this one street in three different styles: curved with base far from building (front right), mostly straight and near to building (with curve above) (distance), and highly curved but not touching ground (front left).

Spoiler:

I assume they're to protect the buildings somehow? But this seems counterintuitive. Protect them from what? They're obviously not going to prevent a major impact. And the buildings have timber walls - not mud or straw or whatever - so it's not as though they'd be that vulneable to passing foot traffic. It seems counterintuitive to protect a wall that's hard to damage by covering it in something that must be expensive (even if the bamboo is dirt cheap, that's a lot of labour to attach all those laths!), that's easier to damage than the wall, and that reduces the width of the street (making contact more likely). If there's a concern about, I don't know, donkeys carrying over-wide poles down the street, scratching the walls, then the arrangement of the screens seems less than optimal - all those laths give all those many chances for something to catch between the laths and rip one (or more) off. (a solid screen, or lathes parallel to the direction of travel, would seem more practical in this regard).

Also worth noting: they're not essential, since the buildings at the end of the street don't have them. And so far as I'm aware the equivalent doesn't occur in European architecture, even back when buildings were timber and plaster, even more vulnerable than these Japanese all-timber facades.

So is it something else? Is it... something to do with rainwater? Or is it intentional street-narrowing? If they all touched the ground, I might think they were covering something (a gutter, or a trapdoor), but the front left ones show that the ground is not the focus of the concept. Or maybe they're an air-conditional device, and there's a gap in the wall behind them?

My first guess and yours seem to accord: protection of some sort. My thought was that they are like the plastic bubbles we put over window wells in the US.

Indeed, these are sudare, and are designed to protect various openings in buildings from rain, bugs, and the like. You find all kinds of interesting window coverings in Asia, usually made from bamboo! In my wife's grandmother's house, the windows of course weren't glazed, so they had kind of bamboo & wood flaps that could be propped open to allow air circulation while keeping the interior shaded from the Sun; just remove the prop and you've got protection from rain, too!

Sudare come in a wide variety of sizes, styles (horizontal, and the vertical you pointed out). And yes, they are labour intensive -- ánything made from that many bamboo laths is bound to take a lot of effort to make. And these can be beautifully made and with great skill and artistry.

[Creyeditor]

OK, here's another cultural "what is in this picture?" question...

Are they called Sudare (as suggested by the title of the picture in the URL)? If so, they are simply window screens/blinds.

[Salmoneus]

Perhaps I was unclear. Yes, the picture says 'sudare' in the title, and I found it on the page about sudare. I was assuming however that they were not sudare. The bamboo screens over the windows on the upper level are sudare - but I was asking about the curved bamboo structures at ground level. These could be sudare, but it seems unlikely - the ratio of solid to gap is so high that it would seem you could not really see through them, and some are located in positions where you wouldn't expect a viewing window (eg the second set from the left on the left side of the street - a metre wide and squeezed in directly between two door jams (not to mention being on the ground)).


[woah - I've never seen those plastic bubble things (although we have a lot of window-wells here)]

[elemtilas]

Perhaps I was unclear. Yes, the picture says 'sudare' in the title, and I found it on the page about sudare. I was assuming however that they were not sudare. The bamboo screens over the windows on the upper level are sudare - but I was asking about the curved bamboo structures at ground level. These could be sudare, but it seems unlikely - the ratio of solid to gap is so high that it would seem you could not really see through them, and some are located in positions where you wouldn't expect a viewing window (eg the second set from the left on the left side of the street - a metre wide and squeezed in directly between two door jams (not to mention being on the ground)).

I can't be certain, but I think the ground level structures are also sudare. I can't see what's under them, but I found that many Japanese buildings incorporate an "underfloor space", en-no-shita, which can be left open, completely boarded up or covered with something with gaps, like a sudare, for airflow.

[woah - I've never seen those plastic bubble things (although we have a lot of window-wells here)]

Very handy, them.

[Creyeditor]

Perhaps I was unclear. Yes, the picture says 'sudare' in the title, and I found it on the page about sudare. I was assuming however that they were not sudare. The bamboo screens over the windows on the upper level are sudare - but I was asking about the curved bamboo structures at ground level. These could be sudare, but it seems unlikely - the ratio of solid to gap is so high that it would seem you could not really see through them, and some are located in positions where you wouldn't expect a viewing window (eg the second set from the left on the left side of the street - a metre wide and squeezed in directly between two door jams (not to mention being on the ground)).

I actually thought that the sudare were detachable and could be stored that way. But I am not an expert and what elemtilas says seems to make sense, too.

[elemtilas]

Perhaps I was unclear. Yes, the picture says 'sudare' in the title, and I found it on the page about sudare. I was assuming however that they were not sudare. The bamboo screens over the windows on the upper level are sudare - but I was asking about the curved bamboo structures at ground level. These could be sudare, but it seems unlikely - the ratio of solid to gap is so high that it would seem you could not really see through them, and some are located in positions where you wouldn't expect a viewing window (eg the second set from the left on the left side of the street - a metre wide and squeezed in directly between two door jams (not to mention being on the ground)).

I actually thought that the sudare were detachable and could be stored that way. But I am not an expert and what elemtilas says seems to make sense, too.

Depending on the design, sudare seemingly cán be detached and stored. The link I gave shows a tabukuro, a closet for rain shutters.

[clawgrip]

They're called inuyarai. They perform the following functions:

- as you said, prevent damage to buildings from foot traffic/bicycles/etc.
- prevent dogs from peeing directly on buildings, to prevent rot
- protect the walls of buildings from splashing rain and mud, also to prevent rot
- prevent thievery (harder to climb over and probably not strong enough to support a person's weight)

Considering the name (literally "dog palisade"), I guess the second point is the original one.

Edit: Also, these are not really found outside of areas with old-style buildings. In more modern areas you will just find rows of plastic bottles filled with water to stop animals from peeing. Whether or not this is actually effective is a different matter.

[Salmoneus]

They're called inuyarai. They perform the following functions:

- as you said, prevent damage to buildings from foot traffic/bicycles/etc.
- prevent dogs from peeing directly on buildings, to prevent rot
- protect the walls of buildings from splashing rain and mud, also to prevent rot
- prevent thievery (harder to climb over and probably not strong enough to support a person's weight)

Considering the name (literally "dog palisade"), I guess the second point is the original one.

Thank you! That really helps. I'd never have thought of dog urine (I rarely do), but that makes perfect sense now you mention it. While the threat of water/mud isn't that great (you can varnish the wood, clean it now and then, or just raise it up a little), urine could absolutely prevent a threat. This would also explain why they don't occur in many other cultures - different varnishing/painting traditions, or simply less use of exposed wood, could render them superfluous. [and then once they're there, they could also perform the other functions too, even if those demands weren't individually enough to merit them]

And yet it's a universal enough concern to justify having them in a conculture... [even in a city without dogs, there's going to be a lot of drunk people, if not outright open sewers in the streets, so urine is a universal hazard].

Thanks again!

[clawgrip]

It should also be noted that because they are especially associated with old, traditional areas, particularly Kyoto, there is now definitely also a decorative or aesthetic aspect to their continued existence.

[Egerius]

For those wondering what I've been doing since I disappeared:

In addition to learning some Norwegian (unfortunately the Bokmål variety), picking up a course-book on Swedish (with CD) and writing funny messages on the CBB Discord server, I've been writing about a dozen short stories, adding bits of lore to my Úrageard conworld (still no coherent magic system ) and finding myself fight against uninvited demons because of Corona killing 90% of my social life and motivation, I've focussed heavily on turning my Commodore Amiga 500 into a useable system.
One can trace recent developments on the Discord server, but here's a recap

Spoiler:

• The base machine is working, since I replaced the motherboard (May 2020)
• A modern 512 kB RAM expansion with battery-backed up clock module has been fitted into the trap door expansion port (June 2020)
• A second, external floppy drive has been fitted (July 2020; it's faulty and it at least needs cleaning)
• I picked up a box of Deuxe Paint IV (German version, program disk working, better than M$ Paint on Windows 7) and Beckertext II (fully working disks with manual, a German word processor program; early September 2020)
• Because one of the Deluxe Paint IV floppies had a massive speck of mould, I had to buy another internal floppy drive. From revision B it's back to E, just like the one that originally was in the Amiga.
• Bought and installed (after a week of thinking, i.e. in October) a modern, external accelerator for my Amiga 500 (the ACA 500plus) as a birthday present. And I use a trackball, for there is no space for a mouse on the table.
  It not only can I bump up the clock speed to 42 MHz (14 MHz is fine), but an added compact flash card works as a hard drive (4 GB), while the other (16 GB, FAT32 format) is used for data transfer between 2014 (my MacBook Pro) and 1991 (the Amiga 500).
  The accelerator comes with a newer version of the Amiga ROM and system software (version 3.1 from 1993, vs. 1.3 from 1988), so I normally use that (but I can choose the older for compatibility/extra nostalgia, which also was installed on the CF card on a separate partition of the 4 GB CF card).
• By pure chance, a cable I bought long ago works with the monitor that came with my Amiga. All I did was touch a knob on the back of the 1084S monitor, and the green signal appeared (previously missing from the RGB). The picture is SO MUCH sharper than the (to quote LGR/Clint Basinger) stick-in-a-butt RF modulator I used before.

I squashed some viruses, cleaned a few (20/390) floppies and could resurrect some of them (and back those up onto CF card as files), including Turrican II — The Final Fight.
I just need to fix that joy stick to actually play that game…
I also found a method of transferring text files as PostScript files, which (are converted into and) open as PDF files on my Mac. For those tiny (320 x 256) pictures I use a special program to convert them into BMPs and GIFs.

And I'm not even done yet with this Frankenstein-esque adventure.
To quote Jakk (February 29th, 2020: [Egerius] is Victor but an actual Good Dad