8values political quiz

What can I say? It doesn't fit above, put it here. Also the location of board rules/info.
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8values political quiz

Post by Khemehekis »

A political self-quiz based on four dichotomies:

https://8values.github.io

That's two more dichotomies than Political Compass.

Khemehekis' results:

https://8values.github.io/results.html? ... 3.0&s=79.9
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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by elemtilas »

Lawks! But that quiz was utter dreck!

Friend! Next time at least pick a political quiz where the questions pretend to be non-partisan. I think I about tossed my dinner 60 times with that quiz!

And it wasn't because one point or another was unreasonable, it's because the way they ask the questions don't allow for rational responses!

Pretty much neither one way nor the other here. Though I am certain that their ideas of "progress" are rather different than mine!

But as always, kind of fun to take and see what they think the results ought to be!

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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by kiwikami »

...How on earth do they define 'progress'?
Ah, well, as elemtilas said it's always fun to see what they say, even if a lot of those questions had me wishing for clarification or some attempt at nuance. (It looks like you and I are rather similar according to them, Khemehekis.)

https://8values.github.io/results.html? ... 3.1&s=75.0
Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.

:eng: :mrgreen: | :fra: [:)] | ASL [:S] | :deu: [:|] | :tan: [:(] | :nav: [:'(]

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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by Salmoneus »

"Progress" is just the name they use for one end of an axis, the other end of which is called "Tradition" - it's not a value judgement. Traditionally, you'd probably call this axis something like conservative/radical, but those words have other meanings too.

[it's a had axis to measure transculturally - you can ask a few general questions about progress and tradition, but you also need to flesh it out a bit with some specifics, and the specifics of what counts as a progressive or traditional opinion, and how extreme an opinion is, will vary with the culture.]

They'll also have a problem with with independence, because progressive and liberal opinions overlap with one another so much in the current culture. But hey, it's not meant to be a completely robust statistical model, I don't think.

[four-factor analysis is not likely to be of any real use in most political science, because real competition is usually on one axis, or at most two. It could have some use in understanding, for instance, competition shift across time, but that would be very complicated (because party competition strongly shapes public opinion as well as vice versa) and require a very big study operating for a long time. I'm assuming the purpose of this quiz is instead for personal amusement.]

It seems a good test. I'm not sure what elemtilas is complaining about. I think he must be misunderstanding how it works - it's not that the testmakers necessarily believe all of those sentences (and there's a bunch of right-wing ones there too!), it's that they're seeing which ones YOU believe, so you can see how your views are different from those of other people. So it's not really partisan.


Anyway, I'm triangulated with khemekis and kiwikami - more left-wing than the former, more liberal than the latter. This apparently pushes me over from 'social liberalism' into 'libertarian socialism'. Taken as a general space term, rather than adhering too strictly to either 'libertarian' or 'socialist' as names of specific ideologies, this seems broadly accurate.

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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by Tanni »

Salmoneus wrote:
23 Apr 2020 14:20
Anyway, I'm triangulated with khemekis and kiwikami - more left-wing than the former, more liberal than the latter. This apparently pushes me over from 'social liberalism' into 'libertarian socialism'. Taken as a general space term, rather than adhering too strictly to either 'libertarian' or 'socialist' as names of specific ideologies, this seems broadly accurate.
Na, you all can't fly with just a left or just a right wing, nor with wings of different sizes, sorry, couldn't resist!
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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by Salmoneus »

Not factually true. In the 1983 Negev incident, an F-15 was flown 10 miles and succesfully landed, despite having lost one wing in a mid-air collision (without the pilot noticing).

The trick, if you ever find yourself flying a plane with only one wing, is that it spins uncontrollably if it's going slowly - if you go really, really, really fast, you're fine. Then you become, in effect, an oddly-shaped rocket...


Even at slower speeds, or even with biological wings, one-winged flight is theoretically possible. Keeping in the air just requires more lift than weight, which just means you need a big wing, or to move it quickly. Of course, the secondary problem is that you'll tend to spin or tumble uncontrollably, which makes it hard to direct your flight. One solution to that is to let the wing spin (you can direct your flight by tilting its plane) and just stablising the rest of the body - c.f. a NOTAR helicopter (and yes, helicopters can be designed with just one blade). The obvious alternative is just to make the wing really big (or heavy) relative to the body, or to make the wing very flexible, so that its flapping creates more lift nearer the body to counteract the imbalanced weight.

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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by sangi39 »

Salmoneus wrote:
23 Apr 2020 17:38
Not factually true. In the 1983 Negev incident, an F-15 was flown 10 miles and succesfully landed, despite having lost one wing in a mid-air collision (without the pilot noticing).

The trick, if you ever find yourself flying a plane with only one wing, is that it spins uncontrollably if it's going slowly - if you go really, really, really fast, you're fine. Then you become, in effect, an oddly-shaped rocket...


Even at slower speeds, or even with biological wings, one-winged flight is theoretically possible. Keeping in the air just requires more lift than weight, which just means you need a big wing, or to move it quickly. Of course, the secondary problem is that you'll tend to spin or tumble uncontrollably, which makes it hard to direct your flight. One solution to that is to let the wing spin (you can direct your flight by tilting its plane) and just stablising the rest of the body - c.f. a NOTAR helicopter (and yes, helicopters can be designed with just one blade). The obvious alternative is just to make the wing really big (or heavy) relative to the body, or to make the wing very flexible, so that its flapping creates more lift nearer the body to counteract the imbalanced weight.
This might be one of the better responses to a play on words I've seen in a while [xD]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

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Re: 8values political quiz

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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by LinguistCat »

Creyeditor wrote:
23 Apr 2020 18:12
I got https://8values.github.io/results.html? ... 6.6&s=74.3. Is this a US-American quiz?
I'm not sure but the American idea of ""Libertarianism"" is very different from the technical meaning of it in political theory that seems to be used by the quiz, in any case.

I also got put in the Libertarian-socialist box for that matter https://8values.github.io/results.html? ... 7.4&s=81.2

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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by KaiTheHomoSapien »

Centrism, with scores near the very middle on every category except economics where I more clearly lean "social".

That's par for the course for me. Other tests label me a centrist as well. I often describe myself as "left-leaning moderate".

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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by Pabappa »

https://8values.github.io/results.html? ... 8.8&s=55.0 i am pretty much just a watered down moderate on this test, though i remember taking it a few years ago and scoring closer to conservatism on at least the diplomatic axis and possibly some others.
I'll take the theses, and you can have the thoses.

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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by Salmoneus »

LinguistCat wrote:
23 Apr 2020 19:26
Creyeditor wrote:
23 Apr 2020 18:12
I got https://8values.github.io/results.html? ... 6.6&s=74.3. Is this a US-American quiz?
I'm not sure but the American idea of ""Libertarianism"" is very different from the technical meaning of it in political theory that seems to be used by the quiz, in any case.
There are two 'technical' meanings of 'libertarian'; the great majority of American libertarians, and Libertarians, are libertarian in both senses of the word.

One meaning is when you use it to describe a political position - an area in political space. In this sense, 'libertarian' just means the opposite of 'authoritarian'*- that is, a libertarian is anyone who tends to favour individual autonomy over state control. That's how it's being used here.

The other meaning is when you use it to describe a political ideology - a (more or less) coherent structure of ethical and practical beliefs that shapes one's political opinions. In this sense, 'libertarian' means strongly committed to individual rights, including the belief that a) the ends of the 'public good' shouldn't be used to justify violating people's basic rights, and that b) people's basic rights include rights to at least some of their legitimately-acquired possessions.

Someone who is libertarian in the second sense has to be at least partly libertarian in the first sense - although they don't have to be VERY libertarian in the first sense (they could, for example, be extremely socially conservative, and hence not believe in, for example, a right to have gay sex). However, many people who are libertarian in the first sense are NOT libertarians in the second sense - the first sense includes a lot of liberals, utilitarians, anarchists, and even some progressives, communists, and conservatives, among others.

American media has since evolved a third sense, broadly along the lines of 'sympathetic to the Libertarian Party'. These people are usually libertarians in both the first two senses, at least in theory (though many of course are actually wavering between camps). HOWEVER: many libertarians in the first sense, and quite a few libertarians in the second sense, are not libertarians in the third sense, because the Libertarian Party has staked out a specific political space that excludes, for example, all left-wing libertarians (in both senses).


And while we're at it, in philosophy 'libertarian' can also mean someone who a) believes in free will, and b) doesn't believe in determinism [and can therefore be distinguished from determinists, who believe in determinism but not free will, and compatibilists, who believe in both free will AND determinism; I'm not sure what the term is for someone who believes in neither free will NOR determinism]. This debate is far enough from politics that this meaning rarely crops up in political theory discussions... but close enough to politics that it does crop up occasionally, potentially causing considerable confusion.



*'authoritarian' also has a second meaning - a form of government. Authoritarian governments are politically authoritarian; but you can also have a government that's authoritarian in politics that is NOT authoritarian in form (eg a fully functioning democracy with freedom of the press, checks and balances, rule of law and so forth, but where 90% of the population are extreme hardline religious fanatics and you get shot if you eat toast upside down...).


I also got put in the Libertarian-socialist box for that matter https://8values.github.io/results.html? ... 7.4&s=81.2
[/quote]

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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by elemtilas »

Salmoneus wrote:
23 Apr 2020 14:20

It seems a good test. I'm not sure what elemtilas is complaining about. I think he must be misunderstanding how it works - it's not that the testmakers necessarily believe all of those sentences (and there's a bunch of right-wing ones there too!), it's that they're seeing which ones YOU believe, so you can see how your views are different from those of other people. So it's not really partisan.
I understand that, at least ideally, it's not supposed to be about the test makers.

But in the end analysis, it really is about the test makers. My gripe is that these kinds of quizzes never actually allow for a realistic answer. You're forced to choose between two wrong, two incomplete, two irrational answers. Words are never defined; concepts are thrown about without context. In other words, it doesn't really gauge what I as quiz taker believe. What it really gauges is what they as test makers assume I believe given an assortment of false and misleading contexts.

For example, they make us choose between corporate and governmental oppression. That's a false dichotomy. Oppression is oppression and I see no good reason to choose one of them as being materially better than another.

Same for public vs private research. Both are good and useful and appropriate. Why set up a false dichotomy where none exists and then force me to make a choice where no real choice exists?

If I choose A, they say I believe X; if I choose B, they say I believe Y. When the real case is that I'd choose 6 and believe Q.

Most of the questions are of that sort. They simply don't gauge real opinion. As for it being a good test: like any of these political or social quizzes, the underlying idea is sound. The execution in this particular instance leaves very much to be desired.

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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by sangi39 »

elemtilas wrote:
23 Apr 2020 23:24
Salmoneus wrote:
23 Apr 2020 14:20

It seems a good test. I'm not sure what elemtilas is complaining about. I think he must be misunderstanding how it works - it's not that the testmakers necessarily believe all of those sentences (and there's a bunch of right-wing ones there too!), it's that they're seeing which ones YOU believe, so you can see how your views are different from those of other people. So it's not really partisan.
I understand that, at least ideally, it's not supposed to be about the test makers.

But in the end analysis, it really is about the test makers. My gripe is that these kinds of quizzes never actually allow for a realistic answer. You're forced to choose between two wrong, two incomplete, two irrational answers. Words are never defined; concepts are thrown about without context. In other words, it doesn't really gauge what I as quiz taker believe. What it really gauges is what they as test makers assume I believe given an assortment of false and misleading contexts.

For example, they make us choose between corporate and governmental oppression. That's a false dichotomy. Oppression is oppression and I see no good reason to choose one of them as being materially better than another.

Same for public vs private research. Both are good and useful and appropriate. Why set up a false dichotomy where none exists and then force me to make a choice where no real choice exists?

If I choose A, they say I believe X; if I choose B, they say I believe Y. When the real case is that I'd choose 6 and believe Q.

Most of the questions are of that sort. They simply don't gauge real opinion. As for it being a good test: like any of these political or social quizzes, the underlying idea is sound. The execution in this particular instance leaves very much to be desired.
I think that largely misses the point of most of these "political compass"-like online quizzes which is that they're not meant to be extensive questionnaires or in depth political analyses. They're effectively Buzzfeed quizzes but with a few dozen more questions. They're, I think, intentionally quite broad, and are more aimed at getting people to start thinking about certain questions, and to give people a very rough idea of what the political landscape looks like, and where they might stand within it.

I don't know many people who take these sort of quizzes seriously or as some sort of of "final authority" on the matter, precisely because they're vague.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by Salmoneus »

elemtilas wrote:
23 Apr 2020 23:24
Salmoneus wrote:
23 Apr 2020 14:20

It seems a good test. I'm not sure what elemtilas is complaining about. I think he must be misunderstanding how it works - it's not that the testmakers necessarily believe all of those sentences (and there's a bunch of right-wing ones there too!), it's that they're seeing which ones YOU believe, so you can see how your views are different from those of other people. So it's not really partisan.
I understand that, at least ideally, it's not supposed to be about the test makers.

But in the end analysis, it really is about the test makers. My gripe is that these kinds of quizzes never actually allow for a realistic answer. You're forced to choose between two wrong, two incomplete, two irrational answers. Words are never defined; concepts are thrown about without context. In other words, it doesn't really gauge what I as quiz taker believe. What it really gauges is what they as test makers assume I believe given an assortment of false and misleading contexts.

For example, they make us choose between corporate and governmental oppression. That's a false dichotomy. Oppression is oppression and I see no good reason to choose one of them as being materially better than another.

Same for public vs private research. Both are good and useful and appropriate. Why set up a false dichotomy where none exists and then force me to make a choice where no real choice exists?

If I choose A, they say I believe X; if I choose B, they say I believe Y. When the real case is that I'd choose 6 and believe Q.

Most of the questions are of that sort. They simply don't gauge real opinion. As for it being a good test: like any of these political or social quizzes, the underlying idea is sound. The execution in this particular instance leaves very much to be desired.
You seem to have misread the questions.

Let's take the first question:
Oppression by corporations is more of a concern than oppression by governments. - do you agree?

You say: "Oppression is oppression and I see no good reason to choose one of them as being materially better than another."

So look, you have indeed answered the question: you do not agree that oppression by corporations is more of a concern than oppression by governments. So you say 'disagree'. How is that difficult?

It's not a false dichotomy: corporations and governments both exist. Both could at least theoretically oppress people. Are you more concerned by oppression by one than by oppression by the other? [this could be because you think one is more likely, or because you think one is more dangerous when it happens]

So where is your problem? You're answering the question as it was intended to be answered, and then saying 'look, it can't be answered' - when you just told us your answer!

And again:
Publicly-funded research is more beneficial to the people than leaving it to the market. Do you agree with this?

You say: "Both are good and useful and appropriate." Well, if that's the whole of your thoughts on the matter (i.e. you aren't going on to say "but one is better or more common than the other") then you have just very openly answered "disagree". You do not think that publically-funded research is more beneficial than leaving it to the market would be.



You seem to think that if you disagree with the proposition, that means it's wrong to ask if you agree with the proposition. But it doesn't - it just means that you click 'disagree' instead of 'agree'. That's how questions work!

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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by elemtilas »

sangi39 wrote:
23 Apr 2020 23:40

I think that largely misses the point of most of these "political compass"-like online quizzes which is that they're not meant to be extensive questionnaires or in depth political analyses. They're effectively Buzzfeed quizzes but with a few dozen more questions. They're, I think, intentionally quite broad, and are more aimed at getting people to start thinking about certain questions, and to give people a very rough idea of what the political landscape looks like, and where they might stand within it.

I don't know many people who take these sort of quizzes seriously or as some sort of of "final authority" on the matter, precisely because they're vague.
I guess I'm not making myself clear. My complaint isn't about the mere length of the quiz. Honestly, they could have pared this down to seven questions in stead of seventy and I'd still have the same underlying complaint.

Nor is the issue their objective of getting people to start to think. (Unless you've been involved in writing this quiz, I can only take that as your take on what their objective is!)

(I have the feeling that the vast majority (leastways of Americans) who don't really think about these concepts at all will in fact assume that this is intended to be some kind of legitimate analysis of where they actually stand, there being no indication to the contrary. And that'll be the end of it. Either their preconceived notions will be validated, and they'll be satisfied with the quiz. Or they'll see skewed results and leave it at that. No further thought required.

I get that, generally speaking, these kinds of quizzes' underlying fundamental is a fun non scientifically accurate activity. These kinds of quizzes have, after all, been on the Internet for decades; and for that matter, have been around in print media for the better part of a century.

My complaint is very simply about the quality of their questions, which in this instance are particularly bad. Can't really have fun with a quiz, to say nothing of starting to think about these concepts when the test makers' underlying principle seems to be to force the taker into a false sense of choice where, in real life, no such choice actually exists.

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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by Khemehekis »

elemtilas wrote:
23 Apr 2020 08:40
Lawks!
Huh. Learned a new word today. I had to look "lawks" up in Wiktionary. A minced oath for "lord", am I correct?
Next time at least pick a political quiz where the questions pretend to be non-partisan.
There won't be a next time.

What partisan slant did you see in this quiz? Because I have no idea which way the creator leant.
I think I about tossed my dinner 60 times with that quiz!
Wow! Only 10 questions that didn't make you lose your lunch!
But as always, kind of fun to take and see what they think the results ought to be!
I agree.

Personally, I didn't like my "center" result for the economic axis. I'm against weldare and Social Security, but support the Green New Deal and Napster (against intellectual property there), and also strongly disagree with the idea that a proprietor should be allowed to ask a customer to leave (and have her arrested for trespassing if she refuses!) for any reason he wants to. I want to stop Super-PACs from putting Republicans and Democrats who don't do enough to stop global warming in the White House. I am definitely not a moderate on economic issues.

I personally prefer the Vosem Chart, whereon I would be at the bottom on fiscal issues, but towards the front on corporate issues. I'm an anarcho-syndicalist by the Vosem metric.
Last edited by Khemehekis on 24 Apr 2020 07:55, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by DesEsseintes »

I got Centrist.

I keep getting disappointed by these tests. I thought I was so dreadfully right-wing but it turns out I’m not really. [xD]
Edit: I just checked and I even lean slightly more towards equality than markets! [:O]
As for the formatting and the apparent implicit bias, I must disagree with elemtilas; all questions give a “neutral/not sure” option (which I incidentally used quite a lot when I found the questions ambiguous and not conducive to determining my opinions).

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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by elemtilas »

DesEsseintes wrote:
24 Apr 2020 07:48
As for the formatting and the apparent implicit bias, I must disagree with elemtilas; all questions give a “neutral/not sure” option (which I incidentally used quite a lot when I found the questions ambiguous and not conducive to determining my opinions).
Perceived bias was something of an overreaction on my part. Nevertheless, questions are just badly written in my opinion! That's all piss under the bridge now.

Khemehekis wrote:
24 Apr 2020 07:04
elemtilas wrote:
23 Apr 2020 08:40
I think I about tossed my dinner 60 times with that quiz!
Wow! Only 10 questions that didn't make you lose your lunch!
Yes. Was just about able to keep it down for those!
But as always, kind of fun to take and see what they think the results ought to be!
I agree.

Personally, I didn't like my "center" result for the economic axis. I'm against weldare and Social Security, but support the Green New Deal and Napster (against intellectual property there), and also strongly disagree with the idea that a proprietor should be allowed to ask a customer to leave (and have her arrested for trespassing if she refuses!) for any reason he wants to. I want to stop Super-PACs from putting Republicans and Democrats who don't do enough to stop global warming in the White House. I am definitely not a moderate on economic issues.
I don't remember any questions about intellectual property or kicking people out of establishments! Though I concur: there ought to be a reasonable reason to kick someone out. I wouldn't much like a situation where nothing at all can be done to remove a load of trouble makers from a place, even if it is a dive.

Green New Deal is okay, but divorce it from the non-environmental issues. Deal with those separately.

Contra welfare and SS?!? That surprises me, honestly.

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Re: 8values political quiz

Post by Salmoneus »

Khemehekis wrote:
24 Apr 2020 07:04

Personally, I didn't like my "center" result for the economic axis. I'm against weldare and Social Security, but support the Green New Deal and Napster (against intellectual property there), and also strongly disagree with the idea that a proprietor should be allowed to ask a customer to leave (and have her arrested for trespassing if she refuses!) for any reason he wants to. I want to stop Super-PACs from putting Republicans and Democrats who don't do enough to stop global warming in the White House. I am definitely not a moderate on economic issues.
"Centrist" doesn't mean "moderate" - it just means not consistently to one side or the other.

That means that either you're inconsistent, or the axis being measured is a conflation of multiple factors. Which, of course, it is [every axis is an averaging out of infinite possible dimensions]. But the result is that you seem to be a centrist on economic issues - as you oppose government intervention strongly in some areas (providing food for the starving), while supporting government intervention strongly in others (keeping the weather pleasant). Thus, you are neither consistently to one side nor another.


Des: well, being a centrist IS being right-wing, among young middle-class people on the internet! [I'm often attacked as a right-winger, despite this test calling me a libertarian socialist...]

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