Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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shimobaatar wrote: 02 Jan 2021 19:46 àcogliuac
/əkoˈʎwak/
  • Typically, although not exclusively, used as an adverb.
  • The word does not have an obvious connection to "water" or "wheels".
  • Descended "from three words in Latin (some of which were inflected)".
  • None of the three Latin words are related to colligō or illūc.
  • None of the three Latin words were verbs, adjectives, or 1st declension nouns.
  • None of the three Latin words were prefixed with con-.
  • The first word began with short <e> in Classical Latin, which changed to /a/ in "virtually every Romance language".
  • The first word began with "something similar to" ecce.
  • The first word was not a preposition.
  • The second word was hōc.
  • The third word was not suffixed with -cus or -āticus.
  • The third word was a second declension noun.

qwed117 wrote: 18 Dec 2020 06:25 Depending on how you splice it, the second word might be inflected, but the second word might not actually be inflected, and the third word might be inflected, since the first word might be inflected.
qwed117 wrote: 18 Dec 2020 06:25 If you're not sure how the phonological segments of one word might have worked around the context of a word (which is a completely good thing to wonder about, in some Romance languages the final 'c' in words was elided early on, for example eccum hic became aquí rather than acui in Spanish, yet in Romanian it became aci- two different, contradictory trajectories) you can always ask me what happened to the 'c' or what would happen if HŌC had been, I dunno instead? - For the record, I would always be open to this.
qwed117 wrote: 18 Dec 2020 06:25 Hopefully I didn't make this more confusing
I find these two statements a bit confusing/difficult to interpret, personally, but the other three were quite helpful.

Is the first part of the word from *accum, rather than ecce, then? If so, are the first two parts of the word equivalent to something like *accum hīc, but with hōc "hither" in place of hīc "here"?

Hopefully it's alright to ask both of those things at once. I have another question in mind, but first let's see whether or not I'm on the right track here.
The list looks right. For the purpose of this, I'm treating *ACCUM and ECCUM as equivalent (with the former being a Proto-Romance, and hence not technically Latin, word). The first part of the word is indeed from both of those. Since the word is a whole (ie, there's no word like *aco < *ECCUM HŌC...), I would have difficulty saying that is precisely true, but it might be helpful to think of it that way. The phrase *ECCUM HŌC is being used in a way similar to *ACCUM HIC. That being said, I think the meaning has shifted from its Latin usage of hither. The point of the first comment is that the third word is clearly the inflected one, and the point of the second one was to indicate that the third word doesn't have a geminate l.
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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qwed117 wrote: 03 Jan 2021 00:38 The list looks right. For the purpose of this, I'm treating *ACCUM and ECCUM as equivalent (with the former being a Proto-Romance, and hence not technically Latin, word). The first part of the word is indeed from both of those. Since the word is a whole (ie, there's no word like *aco < *ECCUM HŌC...), I would have difficulty saying that is precisely true, but it might be helpful to think of it that way. The phrase *ECCUM HŌC is being used in a way similar to *ACCUM HIC. That being said, I think the meaning has shifted from its Latin usage of hither. The point of the first comment is that the third word is clearly the inflected one, and the point of the second one was to indicate that the third word doesn't have a geminate l.
Assuming I've understood all this correctly, is the third word derived from some form of locus or a related word?
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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shimobaatar wrote: 03 Jan 2021 03:55
qwed117 wrote: 03 Jan 2021 00:38 The list looks right. For the purpose of this, I'm treating *ACCUM and ECCUM as equivalent (with the former being a Proto-Romance, and hence not technically Latin, word). The first part of the word is indeed from both of those. Since the word is a whole (ie, there's no word like *aco < *ECCUM HŌC...), I would have difficulty saying that is precisely true, but it might be helpful to think of it that way. The phrase *ECCUM HŌC is being used in a way similar to *ACCUM HIC. That being said, I think the meaning has shifted from its Latin usage of hither. The point of the first comment is that the third word is clearly the inflected one, and the point of the second one was to indicate that the third word doesn't have a geminate l.
Assuming I've understood all this correctly, is the third word derived from some form of locus or a related word?
Derived from some form of locus! (a non-nominative, non-accusative declension)
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 02:01
shimobaatar wrote: 03 Jan 2021 03:55
qwed117 wrote: 03 Jan 2021 00:38 The list looks right. For the purpose of this, I'm treating *ACCUM and ECCUM as equivalent (with the former being a Proto-Romance, and hence not technically Latin, word). The first part of the word is indeed from both of those. Since the word is a whole (ie, there's no word like *aco < *ECCUM HŌC...), I would have difficulty saying that is precisely true, but it might be helpful to think of it that way. The phrase *ECCUM HŌC is being used in a way similar to *ACCUM HIC. That being said, I think the meaning has shifted from its Latin usage of hither. The point of the first comment is that the third word is clearly the inflected one, and the point of the second one was to indicate that the third word doesn't have a geminate l.
Assuming I've understood all this correctly, is the third word derived from some form of locus or a related word?
Derived from some form of locus! (a non-nominative, non-accusative declension)
According to Wiktionary, in addition to being an adverb meaning "hither, to this place", hōc is also the ablative masculine/neuter singular form of the determiner hic "this, these". In light of this, is the final part of àcogliuac derived from the ablative singular form of locus, locō? If so, does àcogliuac mean "hence, from here, from this place"?
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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shimobaatar wrote: 05 Jan 2021 02:22
qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 02:01
shimobaatar wrote: 03 Jan 2021 03:55
qwed117 wrote: 03 Jan 2021 00:38 The list looks right. For the purpose of this, I'm treating *ACCUM and ECCUM as equivalent (with the former being a Proto-Romance, and hence not technically Latin, word). The first part of the word is indeed from both of those. Since the word is a whole (ie, there's no word like *aco < *ECCUM HŌC...), I would have difficulty saying that is precisely true, but it might be helpful to think of it that way. The phrase *ECCUM HŌC is being used in a way similar to *ACCUM HIC. That being said, I think the meaning has shifted from its Latin usage of hither. The point of the first comment is that the third word is clearly the inflected one, and the point of the second one was to indicate that the third word doesn't have a geminate l.
Assuming I've understood all this correctly, is the third word derived from some form of locus or a related word?
Derived from some form of locus! (a non-nominative, non-accusative declension)
According to Wiktionary, in addition to being an adverb meaning "hither, to this place", hōc is also the ablative masculine/neuter singular form of the determiner hic "this, these". In light of this, is the final part of àcogliuac derived from the ablative singular form of locus, locō? If so, does àcogliuac mean "hence, from here, from this place"?
[tick] [cross] not quite
Spoiler:
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What is made of man will crumble away.

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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 02:54
shimobaatar wrote: 05 Jan 2021 02:22
qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 02:01
shimobaatar wrote: 03 Jan 2021 03:55
qwed117 wrote: 03 Jan 2021 00:38 The list looks right. For the purpose of this, I'm treating *ACCUM and ECCUM as equivalent (with the former being a Proto-Romance, and hence not technically Latin, word). The first part of the word is indeed from both of those. Since the word is a whole (ie, there's no word like *aco < *ECCUM HŌC...), I would have difficulty saying that is precisely true, but it might be helpful to think of it that way. The phrase *ECCUM HŌC is being used in a way similar to *ACCUM HIC. That being said, I think the meaning has shifted from its Latin usage of hither. The point of the first comment is that the third word is clearly the inflected one, and the point of the second one was to indicate that the third word doesn't have a geminate l.
Assuming I've understood all this correctly, is the third word derived from some form of locus or a related word?
Derived from some form of locus! (a non-nominative, non-accusative declension)
According to Wiktionary, in addition to being an adverb meaning "hither, to this place", hōc is also the ablative masculine/neuter singular form of the determiner hic "this, these". In light of this, is the final part of àcogliuac derived from the ablative singular form of locus, locō? If so, does àcogliuac mean "hence, from here, from this place"?
[tick] [cross] not quite
Does it have anything to do with motion?
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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shimobaatar wrote: 05 Jan 2021 03:13 Does it have anything to do with motion?
[cross]
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What is made of man will crumble away.

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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 03:17
shimobaatar wrote: 05 Jan 2021 03:13 Does it have anything to do with motion?
[cross]
I can't imagine it's just "here", is it?

Is there a commonly-used English equivalent/translation?
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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shimobaatar wrote: 05 Jan 2021 03:22
qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 03:17
shimobaatar wrote: 05 Jan 2021 03:13 Does it have anything to do with motion?
[cross]
I can't imagine it's just "here", is it?

Is there a commonly-used English equivalent/translation?
[cross] [maybe]*

There's not really an *exact* non-archaic/dialectal equivalent, but there's definitely a one-word translation that is close enough (which contains the meaning of àcogliuac and another word)
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 03:31
shimobaatar wrote: 05 Jan 2021 03:22
qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 03:17
shimobaatar wrote: 05 Jan 2021 03:13 Does it have anything to do with motion?
[cross]
I can't imagine it's just "here", is it?

Is there a commonly-used English equivalent/translation?
[cross] [maybe]*

There's not really an *exact* non-archaic/dialectal equivalent, but there's definitely a one-word translation that is close enough (which contains the meaning of àcogliuac and another word)
Is it something like "henceforth" or "heretofore"?
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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shimobaatar wrote: 05 Jan 2021 09:53 Is it something like "henceforth" or "heretofore"?
[cross]
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What is made of man will crumble away.

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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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I'm feeling pretty stumped, so if anyone else wants to jump in, please feel free to do so, of course.
qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 03:31 There's not really an *exact* non-archaic/dialectal equivalent, but there's definitely a one-word translation that is close enough (which contains the meaning of àcogliuac and another word)
Is this close enough one-word English translation one of the so-called pronominal adverbs?
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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shimobaatar wrote: 05 Jan 2021 19:23 I'm feeling pretty stumped, so if anyone else wants to jump in, please feel free to do so, of course.
qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 03:31 There's not really an *exact* non-archaic/dialectal equivalent, but there's definitely a one-word translation that is close enough (which contains the meaning of àcogliuac and another word)
Is this close enough one-word English translation one of the so-called pronominal adverbs?
[cross]
I should be clearer with what I said, the English "translation" would encompass the "semantic space" that àcogliuac and another word in this language occupy (that is English -> {àcogliuac, other word}, not English -> {àcogliuac + other word}). There's an archaic/dialectal word that would directly translate àcogliuac.
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What is made of man will crumble away.

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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 19:33 I should be clearer with what I said, the English "translation" would encompass the "semantic space" that àcogliuac and another word in this language occupy (that is English -> {àcogliuac, other word}, not English -> {àcogliuac + other word}). There's an archaic/dialectal word that would directly translate àcogliuac.
Ah, that's what I assumed you'd meant.

Anyway, if it's archaic/dialectal, I might be better off trying to figure out the general meaning of àcogliuac* than trying to guess the exact English translation you have in mind. Does it have anything to do with time?

*By the way, if I haven't said so before, I do quite like the look/feel/sound of the word, possibly even more so now that I'm aware of its etymology. -liuac from (a form of) locus is [tick] IMO.
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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shimobaatar wrote: 05 Jan 2021 19:42
qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 19:33 I should be clearer with what I said, the English "translation" would encompass the "semantic space" that àcogliuac and another word in this language occupy (that is English -> {àcogliuac, other word}, not English -> {àcogliuac + other word}). There's an archaic/dialectal word that would directly translate àcogliuac.
Anyway, if it's archaic/dialectal, I might be better off trying to figure out the general meaning of àcogliuac* than trying to guess the exact English translation you have in mind. Does it have anything to do with time?
[cross]

You don't really have to use the archaic word. The common English "translation" is *very* common. Common enough that if you searched it in the CBB search bar, it would refuse to search because the word is too common.
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What is made of man will crumble away.

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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 20:01
shimobaatar wrote: 05 Jan 2021 19:42
qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 19:33 I should be clearer with what I said, the English "translation" would encompass the "semantic space" that àcogliuac and another word in this language occupy (that is English -> {àcogliuac, other word}, not English -> {àcogliuac + other word}). There's an archaic/dialectal word that would directly translate àcogliuac.
Anyway, if it's archaic/dialectal, I might be better off trying to figure out the general meaning of àcogliuac* than trying to guess the exact English translation you have in mind. Does it have anything to do with time?
[cross]

You don't really have to use the archaic word. The common English "translation" is *very* common. Common enough that if you searched it in the CBB search bar, it would refuse to search because the word is too common.
Oh, then I think I'd been misreading what you'd written. I thought the English "translation" was the archaic/dialectal term, but now I can see that's not what you said.

Since I am still thoroughly stumped, though, is the English "translation" transparently derived from an adjective?
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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shimobaatar wrote: 09 Jan 2021 22:11 Oh, then I think I'd been misreading what you'd written. I thought the English "translation" was the archaic/dialectal term, but now I can see that's not what you said.

Since I am still thoroughly stumped, though, is the English "translation" transparently derived from an adjective?
[cross]

For what it's worth, in one of your posts here, you got very close to the word, and you've been colder since
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What is made of man will crumble away.

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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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qwed117 wrote: 10 Jan 2021 02:45 For what it's worth, in one of your posts here, you got very close to the word, and you've been colder since
Oh jeez, hmm…
qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 02:54
shimobaatar wrote: 05 Jan 2021 02:22 If so, does àcogliuac mean "hence, from here, from this place"?
[cross] not quite
qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 03:31
shimobaatar wrote: 05 Jan 2021 03:22 I can't imagine it's just "here", is it?
[cross]
qwed117 wrote: 05 Jan 2021 17:58
shimobaatar wrote: 05 Jan 2021 09:53 Is it something like "henceforth" or "heretofore"?
[cross]
And it doesn't have anything to do with motion or time. There's a very common, one-word, close-enough English "translation" that's neither transparently derived from an adjective nor one of the "pronominal adverbs".

Does it have anything to do with location? [:S]
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jan 2021 03:29 Does it have anything to do with location? [:S]
[tick]
Spoiler:
My minicity is Zyphrazia and Novland
What is made of man will crumble away.

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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

Post by shimobaatar »

I can't believe I can't think of anything else to ask, but is the close-enough English "translation" three syllables or longer?
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