Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by jimydog000 »

Beginning of infant-hood.
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by shimobaatar »

Thank you for your guess!
jimydog000 wrote: 10 Aug 2020 16:07 Beginning of infant-hood.
The final morpheme of the second word does more or less correspond to -hood, but otherwise this is rather far off from the intended meaning.
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by shimobaatar »

shimobaatar wrote: 25 May 2020 20:49 kviunande
  • The present participle of a verb deriving from Proto-Germanic *kwiknaną.
  • Modifies the head of the noun phrase, and therefore takes the feminine nominative singular agreement suffix -e.
frastänodhed
  • The head of the noun phrase.
  • Made up of four morphemes, but only one root: fra-stän-od-hed.
  • The first morpheme is descended from Proto-Germanic *fra-.
  • The second morpheme is not descended from Proto-Germanic *standaną or *stāną.
  • The fourth morpheme is equivalent to the English suffix -hood, but was borrowed from Middle Low German rather than directly inherited from Proto-Germanic *haiduz.
Some additional information that may be helpful:
  • The root of frastänodhed is -stän-.
  • frastänodhed is a noun derived from the past participle of a verb.
Additionally:
  • As far as I can tell, the verb that frastänodhed is derived from is not reconstructed for Proto-Germanic. It was a later development. Originally, the root -stän- was a noun.
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by Salmoneus »

Quickening awaystonedhood?
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by shimobaatar »

Salmoneus wrote: 10 Aug 2020 22:56 Quickening awaystonedhood?
Very close! [tick] The interpretation of *fra- is the only thing I might tweak, leaving us with something like "quickening fullystonedhood".
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by shimobaatar »

So, this round of the game has been going since March 9th*, and the thread's been inactive since August 10th*. At one point, I brought up the possibility that I might just reveal the meaning so someone else can take a turn (or not). However, given how long I've been sitting on this, so to speak, as well as the fact that Salmoneus has already guessed the literal meaning of the phrase correctly, I really do hope that this can end with someone guessing the answer instead of me just giving it away.

Of course, I can't - and wouldn't want to - make anyone play the game if there simply isn't any interest, but in case there is, I've restated all of the information about the phrase that's already been established below, and added some additional hints on top of that. I hope this is helpful!

Finally, please note that, if you'd like to play, but don't have any Germanic conlangs yourself or simply wouldn't want to take the next turn, you can always pass to someone else if you guess correctly and "win".

*It's possible that those exact dates may vary depending on time zone.

kviunande frastänodhed
  • A noun phrase, with kviunande modifying frastänodhed.
  • Could be literally interpreted as something like "quickening fullystonedhood".
kviunande
  • The present participle of the verb kviuna, deriving from Proto-Germanic *kwiknaną.
  • Modifies the head of the noun phrase, and therefore takes the feminine nominative singular agreement suffix -e.
  • Literally means something along the lines of "quickening, living, coming alive, livening, enlivening, reviving".
  • Note that kviuna is equivalent to English verbs like "to quicken" and "to enliven" in their more original senses, and does not have to do with speed or mood.
frastänodhed
  • The head of the noun phrase.
  • Made up of four morphemes, but only one root: fra-stän-od-hed, with the root being -stän-.
  • The first morpheme is descended from Proto-Germanic *fra-, specifically the second sense: "completely, fully, up".
  • The second morpheme is descended from Proto-Germanic *stainaz, "stone".
  • The third morpheme is used to form the past participles of certain verbs. frastänod is the past participle of the verb frastäno, a post-Proto-Germanic development. Note that frastäno is not equivalent to any sense of the English verb "to stone" of which I am aware.
  • The fourth morpheme is equivalent to the English suffix -hood, but was borrowed from Middle Low German rather than directly inherited from Proto-Germanic *haiduz. However, this does not necessarily mean that the correct English translation of the word ends in "-hood".
  • stäns (n.) "stone" > frastäno (v.) "to ???" > frastänods (adj.) "???-ed" > frastänodhed (n.) "???"
  • Could be literally interpreted as something along the lines of "fullystonedhood".
  • Calqued from the word for this concept in Russian and/or Polish.
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by qwed117 »

Just a glance at wiktionary suggests that Gothic repurposed the “completely” meaning to mean “completely used up” and then “lacking”. With that in mind, I looked at wiktionary for Russian words with a prefix that meant “lacking” (Russian bez-) The best result I got was bezglasyj “blindness” (glas at one point meant “stone”).

Hence does “kviunande frastänodhed” mean something like “congenital blindness”?
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by Salmoneus »

The sensation of pins-and-needles when blood returns to a limb that has been starved of blood?
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by shimobaatar »

qwed117 wrote: 03 Oct 2020 05:00 Just a glance at wiktionary suggests that Gothic repurposed the “completely” meaning to mean “completely used up” and then “lacking”. With that in mind, I looked at wiktionary for Russian words with a prefix that meant “lacking” (Russian bez-) The best result I got was bezglasyj “blindness” (glas at one point meant “stone”).

Hence does “kviunande frastänodhed” mean something like “congenital blindness”?
[cross]

This language isn't meant to be a direct descendant of Gothic. "fully, completely" is probably the most helpful way to interpret fra- here.
Salmoneus wrote: 03 Oct 2020 13:21 The sensation of pins-and-needles when blood returns to a limb that has been starved of blood?
[cross]

The meaning is less abstract than a medical condition or feeling/sensation. kviunande frastänodhed refers to a category, not just one specific thing, but you can, in theory, physically interact with members of that category.
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by jimydog000 »

anaesthetics
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by shimobaatar »

jimydog000 wrote: 03 Oct 2020 13:58 anaesthetics
[cross]

It has nothing to do with medicine.
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by jimydog000 »

It's a category of metalworking?
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by shimobaatar »

jimydog000 wrote: 03 Oct 2020 14:31 It's a category of metalworking?
[cross]

It isn't related to stonemasonry or anything like that, either.
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by spanick »

Petrification.
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by shimobaatar »

spanick wrote: 03 Oct 2020 16:35 Petrification.
[tick] This is indeed one possible meaning of frastänodhed. It's not exactly what the word is being used to mean here, but you're on the right track.

I want to specify that it's referring to "the state of being petrified" rather than "the process of petrifying something". Perhaps "petrifaction" might be better? In any case:

stäns (n.) "stone" > frastäno (v.) "to petrify" > frastänods (adj.) "petrified" > frastänodhed (n.) "petrifaction, ???"
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by spanick »

Rigor mortis?
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by shimobaatar »

spanick wrote: 03 Oct 2020 17:23Rigor mortis?
[cross]
shimobaatar wrote: 03 Oct 2020 13:29 The meaning is less abstract than a medical condition or feeling/sensation. kviunande frastänodhed refers to a category, not just one specific thing, but you can, in theory, physically interact with members of that category.
shimobaatar wrote: 03 Oct 2020 14:13 It has nothing to do with medicine.
To expand upon these points: it's a category of concrete, physical entities. It isn't related to the human body, and it isn't a sensation or experience. I suppose you could say that the fact that members of this category exist is a phenomenon, but I would not call the members themselves phenomena.

The form of the phrase I've given here is singular, but it could be pluralized. Its English translation can be singular or plural as well, and is typically used with an indefinite article in the singular.
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by qwed117 »

shimobaatar wrote: 03 Oct 2020 17:32
spanick wrote: 03 Oct 2020 17:23Rigor mortis?
[cross]
shimobaatar wrote: 03 Oct 2020 13:29 The meaning is less abstract than a medical condition or feeling/sensation. kviunande frastänodhed refers to a category, not just one specific thing, but you can, in theory, physically interact with members of that category.
shimobaatar wrote: 03 Oct 2020 14:13 It has nothing to do with medicine.
To expand upon these points: it's a category of concrete, physical entities. It isn't related to the human body, and it isn't a sensation or experience. I suppose you could say that the fact that members of this category exist is a phenomenon, but I would not call the members themselves phenomena.

The form of the phrase I've given here is singular, but it could be pluralized. Its English translation can be singular or plural as well, and is typically used with an indefinite article in the singular.
petrified wood (or some other fossils)?
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by shimobaatar »

qwed117 wrote: 03 Oct 2020 18:38 petrified wood (or some other fossils)?
[cross] [tick] Not exactly, but "fossil" is the other translation of frastänodhed that I had in mind, based on Polish skamieniałość and Russian ископа́емое and окамене́лость.
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Re: Guess the Word in Germanic Conlangs 2

Post by qwed117 »

shimobaatar wrote: 03 Oct 2020 18:50
qwed117 wrote: 03 Oct 2020 18:38 petrified wood (or some other fossils)?
[cross] [tick] Not exactly, but "fossil" is the other translation of frastänodhed that I had in mind, based on Polish skamieniałość and Russian ископа́емое and окамене́лость.
Ah, a living fossil! Like a coelacanth or a gingko
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