Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

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Mecejide
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Mecejide »

Iača:
/m n ɳ/ <m n ň>
/p b t d ʈ ɖ k g/ <p b t d ť ď k g>
/f v s z ʂ ʐ/ <f v s z š ž>
/ts dz ʈʂ ɖʐ/ <c x č x̌>
/l ɭ j w/ <l ľ j w>
/i u/ <i u>
/e o/ <e o>
/a ɒ/ <a y>

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eldin raigmore
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by eldin raigmore »

Porphyrogenitos wrote:
11 Jul 2020 03:28
....
I had a brief speculation about a sesquisyllabic-type language in which the inventory of not only vowel contrasts but also consonants is smaller in the sesquisyllable, e.g.:
....
Main syllables may take the maximal structure CGVC; sesquisyllables may at most have the structure CV. The distinction between plain voiceless, aspirated voiceless, and voiced oral occlusives is neutralized in sesquisyllables and in the coda of the main syllable. Sesquisyllables may only have the vowels /i ə u/; high vowels in sesquisyllables are the product of historic glides being syllabified after the deletion of the main vowel - historical vowels in sesquisyllables were reduced to an epenthetic schwa.
I think you’re misusing the prefix sesqui-.
Sesqui- means -and-a-half.
A sesquicentennial occurs every century-and-a-half.
A sesquiterpene is a terpene-and-a-half.
A sesquipedalian word is a foot-and-a-half long.
And so on.

So a sesquisyllable should be one-and-a-half syllables.

What you’re describing might better be termed semi-syllables.

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Creyeditor
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Creyeditor »

The idea is sesquisyllabic languages is that words consist of 1.5 syllables, a main syllable and a non-main syllable.
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qwed117
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by qwed117 »

the term typically used is “minor syllable” (and “major syllable”). This specific arrangement with limited vowels reminds me of a language I made a couple years ago where minor syllables are limited to [C/(C)[R/V]] and only allow the vowels /a i/ in those syllables
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eldin raigmore
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by eldin raigmore »

@qwed117
@Creyeditor
@Porphyrogenitos

Oh! The word is a-syllable-and-a-half long! Not the syllable is half-again as long as a usual syllable!

Sorry for misunderstanding!

....

About major and minor syllables:

What if trimoraic superheavy syllables and/or primarily-stressed syllables were of maximal shape
(C(C))V(V)((C)C)
and bimoraic heavy syllables and/or secondarily-stressed syllables were of maximal shape
(C(C))V(C)
and monomoraic light syllables and/or unstressed syllables were of maximal shape
(C)V
?

The CCVVCC syllables would be major;
the (C)V syllables would be minor;
and the CCVC syllables would be medium;
right?

Especially if only schwas were allowed as vowels in unstressed syllables?

Or am I missing the point?

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Vlürch
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Vlürch »

Something meant to be reminiscent of Spanish, German/Yiddish, Hungarian, French, Portuguese, Basque, Polish, Irish, etc. but not too much like any of them. Not sure if I succeeded, but I'm still pretty happy with this phonology and might use it (or something similar) for some kind of conlang sooner or later, if I got around to making one set anywhere in Europe...

Phonemes with two realisations separated by ~ indicate realisations before front and back vowels respectively, and phonemes with two realisations separated by - indicate realisations in onset and coda respectively. I'm just too lazy to write down those allophonic rules and wouldn't be sure which of the allophones to refer to as the phoneme, so yeah, I indicated them in the phonemic inventory itself. :roll:

/m n ɲ-ŋ/ <m n gn>
/p b t d k g/ <p b t d k g>
/t͡ʃ~c d͡ʒ~ɟ/ <tj dj>
/t͡s/ <tz>
/s ʃ/ <z x>
/f v θ j x ɦ-h/ <f v s j ch h>
/ɹ~ʀ-ʒ~æ̯/ <r>
/rː~ʀː/ <rr>
/l~ɫ-l~w ʎ/ <l gl>

/a e i o u ə ø y/ <a e i o u y ö ü>
/aː eː iː oː uː əː øː yː/ <á é í ó ú ý ő ű>

/m n ɲ-ŋ/ induce nasalisation in closed syllables, and /n/ is also dropped afterwards word-finally and before fricatives
/d g/ are [ð ɣ] intervocalically, including across word boundaries as a sandhi effect; this also occurs after allophonic nasalised vowels
word-final /ɦ/ is [h] in coda, except [ʔ̚] word-finally as a sandhi effect before words beginning with a vowel
/rː~ʀː/ occurs only intervocalically inside words, but it's considered a single consonant since vowels before it have open syllable allophones

/a e i o u ə ø y/ and tend to be [a ɛ i o u ə ø y] in open syllables
/aː eː iː oː uː əː øː yː/ and tend to be [aː ɛː iː oː uː əː øː yː] in open syllables
/a e i o u ə ø y/ and tend to be [æ ɐ ɪ ɔ ʊ ə ɞ ʏ] in closed syllables; [ɐ] is still treated as a front vowel
/aː eː iː oː uː əː øː yː/ and tend to be [æː ɑː ɪː ɔː ʊː əː ɞː ʏː] in closed syllables; [ɑː] is still treated as a front vowel
Word-initial vowels are preceded by a non-phonemic glottal approximant [ʔ̞], except following word-final /ɦ/, in which case it is a glottal stop [ʔ].

Meaningless gibberish examples for the vibe:
fárdyn gurtzán zygnü vésmé rajox [fæːʒdə̃ ɣʊæ̯t̻͡s̪æ̃ː s̪əɲy vɑːθmɛː ɹajɔʃ]
silbarroh úlún acht vodokzir ejol [θil̪baʀːɔʔ̚ ʔuːɫ̪ʊ̃ː ʔ̞æxt̪ voðɔks̪ɪʒ ʔ̞ɛjɔw]
én dentjamx igly kőbün djidjyl pans [ʔ̞ɑ̃ː ðɐ̃nt͡ʃæ̃mʃ iʎə køːbʏ̃ d͡ʒiɟəl pæ̃θ]
argak fy vinz minűx tjarrögyn gnor [ʔ̞æʒgæk fə vɪ̃s̪ minʏːʃ t͡ʃærːøɣə̃ ɲɔæ̯]

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jimydog000
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by jimydog000 »

Vlürch wrote:
11 Sep 2020 08:36
...ɔæ̯]
[+1]

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Vlürch
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Vlürch »

jimydog000 wrote:
11 Sep 2020 13:11
Vlürch wrote:
11 Sep 2020 08:36
...ɔæ̯]
[+1]
If you meant that sarcastically, I figured that even though the required sound changes would've been pretty wacky, they'd be realistic enough:
[r] -> [ʀ] -> [ʁ] -> [ʕ] -> [æ̯] after back vowels, and for whatever reason not going farther than [ʀ] in onsets
[r] -> [ɾ] -> [ɹ] -> [ɹ̝] -> [ʒ] after front vowels, and for whatever reason not going farther than [ɹ] in onsets
The rationale behind the allophones going in different directions was vowels having had a gradual lenitive effect on them, but them not having had an effect on vowels for whatever reason. I know the opposite is more likely, but well.

Anyway, apparently coda [ʁ] -> [æ̯] has actually happened in one Norwegian dialect so that should be fine. I thought coda /r/ being [ʒ] was a thing in some dialects of Portuguese, but apparently not. Oh well. I still think it's at least borderline naturalistic, though? Weeeell, it doesn't really matter anyway since it's just a random sketch phonology. [:P]

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Frislander
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander »

Something like what new Frislandic's phonology is going to be

/(p) t̪ t͡s ʈ k kʷ/
/b d̪ d͡z ɖ (g)/
/ɬ̪ s ʂ h ʍ/
/m n̪ ɳ ɲ ŋ/
/(w) l̪ j ɽ w/

/p g/ are restricted to loanwords. Consonan clusters are only found intervocalically, and are uncommon in roots.

/iə uə/
/e ə o/
/a ɒ/
/aɪ ɒʊ/

Word-final consonants are restricted to /t̪ k ɬ̪ s n̪/. Most inflectional affixes are considered to underlyingly begin with a voiced stop or a vowel, with the following concomitant assimilatory processes.

/t̪ k/ devoice the voiced stop before deleting, e.g. /koɖiək-ɖo/ [->] /koɖiəʈo/. With affixes beginning with /b/ the resulting of this process is /kʷ/ not /p/, e.g. /hak-bɒn̪/ [->] /hakʷɒn̪/. Correspondingly a vowel-initial suffix manifests a /k/ in the same position, e.g. /mot̪-e/ [->] /moke/.

/ɬ̪ s/ also devoice/epenthesise /k/, but instead of deleting afterwards are retained e.g. /t̪əɬ̪-e/ [->] /t̪əɬ̪ke/. Both consonants undergo place assimilation to /ʂ/ before a retroflex, e.g. /n̪at͡sas-ɖo/ [->] /n̪at͡saʂʈo/. With affixes beginning with /b/ the assimilation results in /ɬ̪w ʍ/ respectively, e.g. /l̪uəs-bɒn̪/ [->] /l̪uəʍɒn̪/.

With /n/ place assimilation of the nasal to the following stop takes place and the voiced stop is deleted, e.g. /ken̪-ɖo/ [->] /keɳo/. With vowel-initial suffixes the result is a velar nasal, e.g. /bɒʊn̪-e/ [->] /bɒʊŋe/.

Finally, when vowel-final roots are concatenated with vowel-initial suffixes, vowel fusion occurs e.g. /ɲod͡za-e/ [->] /ɲod͡zaɪ/, /kaɽo-a/ [->] /kaɽuə/, /ʂaɪ-amə/ [->] /ʂajamə/, /ɬ̪ed̪ə-obo/ [->] /ɬ̪ed̪obo/.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DV82LECM »

Frislander wrote:
14 Sep 2020 21:53
Something like what new Frislandic's phonology is going to be

/(p) t̪ t͡s ʈ k kʷ/
/b d̪ d͡z ɖ (g)/
/ɬ̪ s ʂ h ʍ/
/m n̪ ɳ ɲ ŋ/
/(w) l̪ j ɽ w/

/p g/ are restricted to loanwords. Consonan clusters are only found intervocalically, and are uncommon in roots.

/iə uə/
/e ə o/
/a ɒ/
/aɪ ɒʊ/

Word-final consonants are restricted to /t̪ k ɬ̪ s n̪/. Most inflectional affixes are considered to underlyingly begin with a voiced stop or a vowel, with the following concomitant assimilatory processes.

/t̪ k/ devoice the voiced stop before deleting, e.g. /koɖiək-ɖo/ [->] /koɖiəʈo/. With affixes beginning with /b/ the resulting of this process is /kʷ/ not /p/, e.g. /hak-bɒn̪/ [->] /hakʷɒn̪/. Correspondingly a vowel-initial suffix manifests a /k/ in the same position, e.g. /mot̪-e/ [->] /moke/.

/ɬ̪ s/ also devoice/epenthesise /k/, but instead of deleting afterwards are retained e.g. /t̪əɬ̪-e/ [->] /t̪əɬ̪ke/. Both consonants undergo place assimilation to /ʂ/ before a retroflex, e.g. /n̪at͡sas-ɖo/ [->] /n̪at͡saʂʈo/. With affixes beginning with /b/ the assimilation results in /ɬ̪w ʍ/ respectively, e.g. /l̪uəs-bɒn̪/ [->] /l̪uəʍɒn̪/.

With /n/ place assimilation of the nasal to the following stop takes place and the voiced stop is deleted, e.g. /ken̪-ɖo/ [->] /keɳo/. With vowel-initial suffixes the result is a velar nasal, e.g. /bɒʊn̪-e/ [->] /bɒʊŋe/.

Finally, when vowel-final roots are concatenated with vowel-initial suffixes, vowel fusion occurs e.g. /ɲod͡za-e/ [->] /ɲod͡zaɪ/, /kaɽo-a/ [->] /kaɽuə/, /ʂaɪ-amə/ [->] /ʂajamə/, /ɬ̪ed̪ə-obo/ [->] /ɬ̪ed̪obo/.
Every now and again, a language comes along that I love. This is one. I wish I had MORE of a love affair with retroflex consonants, but otherwise, this is awesome. Honestly, it looks like you sketchpad-ed a list of thrown-together sound changes you wanted, stumbling upon what worked, seamlessly, and made a phonology out of it. Point is, it's all very tight, and little seems arbitrary. It's an utterly beautiful, well-crafted amalgamation.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by GoshDiggityDangit »

I’ve been wanting to do a restrictive phonology for a while, and I recently came up with one. It’s inspired by the Lakes-Plain languages of Papua New Guinea.

/t tː k kː/ [t d tː k kː ʔ] <d d t g k g>
/m n/ [m n ŋ] <m n n>
[ɾ] <d>
[ʃ h] <d~t g~k>

/i iː u uː/ [ɪ i ʊ u] <i ee u oo>
/e eː/ [ɛ e] <e ei>
/a aː/ [a æ] <a aa>

The vowel romanization is subject to change. I think I might give this sketch restricted numerals too.
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VaptuantaDoi
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by VaptuantaDoi »

GoshDiggityDangit wrote:
17 Sep 2020 02:00
I’ve been wanting to do a restrictive phonology for a while, and I recently came up with one. It’s inspired by the Lakes-Plain languages of Papua New Guinea.

/t tː k kː/ [t d tː k kː ʔ] <d d t g k g>
/m n/ [m n ŋ] <m n n>
[ɾ] <d>
[ʃ h] <d~t g~k>

/i iː u uː/ [ɪ i ʊ u] <i ee u oo>
/e eː/ [ɛ e] <e ei>
/a aː/ [a æ] <a aa>

The vowel romanization is subject to change. I think I might give this sketch restricted numerals too.
This is cool, it definitely reminds me of the Lakes Plains languages without being just a copy of them. I don't know how realistic the geminates are in such a small inventory, but they're interesting and you could probably justify it somehow. Also I like the vowel system.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DV82LECM »

Symmetrical Arabic inspired:

/m n ɲ/ <m n ñ>
/p t t͡ʃ k/ <p t c k>
/p' t' t͡ʃ' q~ʔ/ <p' t' c' k'>
/b~v d~z d͡ʒ~ʒ g~ɣ/ <b d j g>
/bˤ dˤ d͡ʒˤ ɢ~ʕ/ <b' d' j' g'>
/f s ʃ x/ <f s x h>
/fʰ sʰ ʃʰ h/ <f' s' x' h'>
/w l j/ <w l y>

/i~e u~o a~ɑ/ <i u a>

Vowels lower in proximity to co-articulated consonants. There are no long vowels or diphthongs. There are no geminates. If the "glottal" series, <k' g' h'>, shows up in a cluster, it assimilates the preceding consonant to its corresponding consonant, regardless of manner. (The first two show up as uvulars, word initially.) Only normal consonants can end syllables (/m n ɲ w l j/ do not). Normal voiced plosives become fricatives, intervocalically.
Last edited by DV82LECM on 21 Sep 2020 19:27, edited 19 times in total.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Vlürch »

DV82LECM wrote:
18 Sep 2020 05:53
Symmetrical Arabic inspired:
That's a pretty interesting inventory, I especially like that it has aspirated fricatives. Reminds me a bit of Vietnamese and Burmese, but it does also definitely have that Afro-Asiatic vibe too.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DV82LECM »

Vlürch wrote:
18 Sep 2020 07:52
DV82LECM wrote:
18 Sep 2020 05:53
Symmetrical Arabic inspired:
That's a pretty interesting inventory, I especially like that it has aspirated fricatives. Reminds me a bit of Vietnamese and Burmese, but it does also definitely have that Afro-Asiatic vibe too.
Would you consider it naturalistic? I was hoping to give each consonant type (voiceless, voiced, and fricative) their OWN distinguished secondary articulations, perhaps the result of mergers with the velar/glottal series in clusters.

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Frislander »

/t s k/
/b bʷ d d͡ʒ g/
/m mʷ n ɲ ŋ/
/v w l j/

The voiced stops are prenasalised in intervocalic position and optionally prenasalised word-initially. The rounding contrast on labials is defective, with rounding being automatic adjacent to rounded vowels, and there are relatively few rounded labials outside of this context.

There is a single consonant cluster in the language, /bl/, which is only found in a handful of lexical items and never with rounding.

/i u/
/e ɐ o/
/æ ɒ/

The low vowels harmonise within the phonological word.

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Vlürch
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by Vlürch »

DV82LECM wrote:
18 Sep 2020 08:02
Would you consider it naturalistic?
There are languages with weirder phonemic inventories out there, so why not?

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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Vowels:

/a æ e i ɔ o ɤ ɯ/

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