Case Survey

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Micamo
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Case Survey

Post by Micamo »

Do your conlangs have case? If not, what other methods are used to distinguish thematic roles? (Head-marking? Syntax?)

If so, how many cases do you tend to put in a lang? What kinds of cases do you like to have?
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

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Xing
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Re: Case Survey

Post by Xing »

I ♥ case.

Wattētexu doesn't have morphological case (it's largely analytical. Some of my defunct conlangs had more or less advanced case systems.

My second (or maybe third) most "advanced" conlang had a lot of cases:

Nominative (unmarked)

Accusative (optionally marked)

Dative (-tam)
-Indirect object to ditransitive verbs.
-Single object to some low-transitivity verbs.

Allative (-tal)
-Destination or goal (NO WAY!!!???)

Locative (-nox)
-Location (NO WAY!!!???)

Ablative (-bol)
-Source (NO WAY!!!???)
-Complement to some verbs.

Perlative (-gad)
-Path
-Duration

Instrumental (-neb)
-Instrument
-Complement to some verbs

Genitive

Comitative (-mon)

Abessive (-kun)

Benefactive (-vun)

Causative

Essive

Comparative



Another (unnamed) conlang had the following cases:

Absolutive (unmarked). Apart from the "normal" absolutive usage, it could be used with certain adpositions.

Ergative/instrumental. (-z).
What it sounds like, a combined ergative-instrumental case, similar to the one found in many Australian languages.

Dative (-n)
-Complents of certain low-transitivity verbs.
-Recipient/indirect object to ditransitive verbs (did anyone guess that?).
-Subjects of a few verbs, mostly reciprocal or reflexive.

Locative (-m)
-Location
-Source
-Subjects of a few verbs.

Genitive (-t)
-Possessors (Did anyone guess that?)
-Used with many adpositions expressing companionship, destination and more.
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Re: Case Survey

Post by Xing »

I don't know about the PDL (Pink Dragon Language) yet. It will probably be split-ergative (ergative case-marking and accusative verb agreement).

It will have an aversive/evitative case.

It will probably have a pegative case.

There will be no genitive case, that's for sure.

For the other cases, I don't know yet. But there will be more of them.

As people may notice, it's inspired by Australian languages (split-ergativity, aversive case and lack of genitive).
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Re: Case Survey

Post by xinda »

Proto-Vdangku cases:
Image

Several cases can be extended metaphorically. The attractive and evitative can be used to denote benefactives and malefactives respectively.
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Re: Case Survey

Post by MrKrov »

MrKrov hasn't been using case for a while now, instead going with adpositions of the prepositional sort and mild headmarking of the redundant variety, plus word order especially for the nonpeople. A tiny number of postpositions shall also occur as the result of new, grammaticalized adpositions from earlier aforementioned attributive genitive preposition "i" plus various abstract noun fusions.
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Re: Case Survey

Post by Micamo »

Midhera's case system is much a work in progress (mostly due to scrapping then reviving), but a few highlights of what I have worked out so far:

No borderline cases. Locatives, allatives, etc. are carried by derivations into adverbial forms and are not proper case markers. All the case markers deal with functional roles in the clause, with 5 underlying roles for every verb (though due to the way things work, a maximum of only 4 can occur at once). Most verbs have subtle variations in meaning depending on which cases it has the arguments take. Perhaps the best example to show how this works is the verb Dhena - "Knowing".

Dhena with the patient taking one case means the agent knows that the patient exists, is present, or (in the case of an embedded clause describing an event) happened. "I know about clocks, you use them to know what time it is, right?"

With the patient taking another case it means the agent knows why the patient exists, its origins and causes. "I know about clocks, they were invented only a few centuries ago."

With yet another, it can mean the agent knows how to use the patient as a tool. "I know about clocks, the small hand tells the hour and the big hand tells the minute."

With a final case on the patient, it can mean the agent understands the deep causal structures within the patient. "I know about clocks, if you give me a bunch of springs and gears I can make one for you."

(The sense of "knowing" as in being familiar or comfortable with something is covered by another verb, Alda.)

As for inventory size, I'm thinking a large size. Maybe 14? 19?

As for other strategies, I'm quite fond of head-marking, but case is cool too. However, I avoid zero-marking relationships like the plague. Syntax... buh....
Last edited by Micamo on 16 May 2011 19:04, edited 1 time in total.
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

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Re: Case Survey

Post by Itsuki Kohaku »

Case system for Proto-Makurungou so far: This'll definitively change to be more analytic as the family progresses.
These can be placed as either prefixes or suffixes, More than 1 case can appear per noun.
Nominative (Optionally marked in speech, Always marked in writing.)
Accusative
Genitive
Locative
Ablative
Dative
Instrumental
Vocative
Allative
Aversive
Abessive
Comparative
Essive
Translative
Privative
Possesive
Antessive
Temporal (Only used in time phrases.)

Most of these will only be used in literature, Only the top 7/Possesive and Temporal commonly used in speech.


That's all I've got so far for the noun case system.
In order of knowledge: :eng: :vls: :epo: :fra: :deu: :esp: :jpn: :zho: :fin: :tur: :eus:
Conlangs: :con: Literary Makurungou, :con: Common Makurungou
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Re: Case Survey

Post by Xing »

Itsuki Kohaku wrote:Case system for Proto-Makurungou so far: This'll definitively change to be more analytic as the family progresses.
These can be placed as either prefixes or suffixes, More than 1 case can appear per noun.
Nominative (Optionally marked in speech, Always marked in writing.)
Accusative
Genitive
Locative
Ablative
Dative
Instrumental
Vocative
Allative
Aversive
Abessive
Comparative
Essive
Translative
Privative
Possesive
Antessive
Temporal (Only used in time phrases.)

Most of these will only be used in literature, Only the top 7/Possesive and Temporal commonly used in speech.


That's all I've got so far for the noun case system.
Maybe this has been discussed before, but why is there both a possessive and a genitive case? How do they differ?
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Re: Case Survey

Post by Xing »

I'm especially interested in the dative case. Those of you who have a dative case, how is it used?

I guess most of you use it for the recipient/indirect object to a ditransitive verb like "give". (Though not all natlangs with a case conventionally labelled "dative" do this...)

Can your datives also have other functions? Can it be used for the object of some mono-transitive verbs? Or for purposives or benefactives (if you don't have specialised cases for those functions)?
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Re: Case Survey

Post by Micamo »

Midhera has an "Extended Argument" which acts as a mandatory third argument to some verbs, whose semantic function and case marking depends on the verb (and governance) in question. (I used to call this a "Core Dative" but Eldin gave me a better idea as it's used for a lot more than datives.)

A few examples of what the extended argument is used for:

The topic of a conversation ("I talked to her about our relationship")

A task being performed or dealt with ("I helped her with her dog")

An object being transferred ("I gave her a gun", "I bought a wrench from him")

Note interestingly the bolded section is, in Midhera, mandatory. If you want/need to leave it out, you need to use indefinite markers ("I talked to her about nothing in particular") or use a totally separate lexical entry which doesn't require the E argument ("I made small talk with her").
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

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Re: Case Survey

Post by MrKrov »

MrKrov isn't implementing a dative case right now, instead replacing it with a preposition "ku" for recipients and also destinations, purposes and standards of comparison.
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Re: Case Survey

Post by Micamo »

Your conlang had better be called MrKrov.
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

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Re: Case Survey

Post by zelos »

Ergative, Accusative, Intransitive and Dative/Postpositional
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Re: Case Survey

Post by Ear of the Sphinx »

Emyt is a language that uses many cases.

Four flective cases:
- Nominative (-t, -, -ś, -j)
- Genitive (-, -ś, -j)
- Verbial (-˛, -tǫ, -śę, -zę)
- Possessive (-, to, -śi, -zi) [archaic Postpositional case]

Fifteen agglutinative cases (endings attached to possessive case form):
- Ablative (-rek) [archaic: -zuśrek]
- Dative (-tik) [archaic: -zuśtik]
- Inessive (-uh)
- Elative (-uhrek)
- Illative (-uhtik)
- Adessive (-voh)
- Delative (-vohrek)
- Allative (-vohtik)
- Prolative (-mik)
- Instructive (-nak) [archaic: -namik]
- Translative (-natik)
- Partitive (-mej)
- Essive (-vek)
- Comitative (-ak)
- Abessive (-kik)
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Re: Case Survey

Post by Micamo »

What's the verbial case used for?

What's the difference between the Genitive and Possessive?

You have 4 affixes in in the flective section. I would guess they correspond to numbers, but which numbers? Do they correspond to something else? What's the difference between Salau and Salaut?
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

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Re: Case Survey

Post by Testyal »

Image
Cases were the things that interested me in linguistics.
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Re: Case Survey

Post by Yačay256 »

Pingÿgo has no cases but it has several applicatives fused with other grammatical markings in a single infix. Otherwise, Pingÿgo uses what I termed "Relational adjuncts" which are essentially certain stems that mark case (the "Relational" part) when used as modifiers (the "Adjunct" part); adjuncts can be any stem that agrees in personal prefixes with its head though only a portion mark case (in addition to their regular function.)
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Re: Case Survey

Post by Ossicone »

Amjati has four cases. Absolutive, ergative, dative and genitive. It all seems rather germanic to me now.
Usually the case is carried on the article but sometimes on the noun itself. Adjectives also agree by case, not gender.

Image
tjar = man
adom = woman/wife

EDIT - For kicks here's some adjective agreement:
ABS - ak misra tjar
ERG - ik misir tjar
DAT - ejk misrok tjar
GEN - em misrem tjar
Last edited by Ossicone on 16 May 2011 23:51, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Case Survey

Post by Xing »

Ossicone wrote:Amjati has four cases. Absolutive, ergative, dative and genitive. It all seems rather germanic to me now.
Usually the case is carried on the article but sometimes on the noun itself. Adjectives also agree by case, not gender.

Image
tjar = man
adom = woman/wife
Does the ergative have any oblique functions, apart from being used for subjects in transitive clauses?
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Re: Case Survey

Post by Ossicone »

Not that I know of.
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