Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

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Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by Itsuki Kohaku »

Backstory:
The Makurungou are a tribe of semi-nomadic Vulpids. For many centuries the Makurungou were a tribe of disorganized raiders and sheperd nomads. When the current Arwenyid Amantha Sigunda Shikaonij took power a few years ago. He modernized the army a bit. Introduced the Zyn'n religion to the tribe and made English a neccessary subject at tribal learning sessions. Makurungou culture has a set of honorifics for different people. Makurungou culture may seem quite awkward for Humans. Especially in the neighboring Human nation of Validonia. The Validonians speak English.

Makurungou Language: The Makurungou is what the Humans call a "Language Isolate". I guess to that it means that it has no linguistic realitives. (Spelt right?) Wrong! Makurungou is a liturgical language! The commoners sometimes speak many other languages derived from Makurungou and other languages the Human's sometimes speak.
(That last part is an idea for a Language family.)

Makurungou

Vowels:

CVC (VC) (V) (CV) (C)
On the left, phonetic value, on the right, Orthography.
Vowels: æ=a eɪ=ä ɛ=e i=ë ɪ=i aɪ=ï ɑ=o ɒ=ö ʌ=u ᵿ or ʊ̈=ü ø~=ÿ¬ High Nasal Vowel.

Consonants: b=b d=d f=f ɡ=g h=h k=k j=j ( stands for the y sound) l=l m=m n=n p=p q=kw ɺ=r s=s t=t w=w v=v ʔ='(Glottal Stop) ks=x ʒ=z ŋ=ng ʁ=y (uvular fricative) z=z tʃ=ch ʃ=sh dr vl pr vr br nd (These last ones are the only consonant clusters in Makurungou besides inflections)

­ ­ ­

R= Liquidic "R" Somewhat like the Japanese "R"




Grammar:

Nouns:

Deity Tense: Kon

Deitess Tense: Vö

Inanimate Tense: brü

Animate Tense: fü

Past-Tense: be

Present-Tense: bä

Future tense unchanged: bë

Future tense changed: kis

Animalistic Tense: tä

Warlike tense: Hyök

Mating tense: Vrä

Ownership: bü

Descriptive tense: bru

Opposite Indicator: Kü-

Neuter gender: ondë

Male gender: ö

Female gender: ë

Plural: en

Outsider tense: dä

"Inside something": Vlä

To someone or something: Ve

"On something": Vlö




Noun "To Be"

I: Kë

You: Vë

We: Kün

They: Nön

We (plus humans): Kündo

They (plus humans): Nöndä

It: Në



Verbs

Past-tense: beö

Present-tense: bäu

Future tense unchanged: bëö

Future tense changed: kisü

Animalistic tense; täö

Warlike tense: bifü

Mate tense: kürä

Opposite indicator: mö-

Animate tense: füä

Inanimate tense: brüä

Deity tense: konö

Deitess tense: Vöë

Descriptive Tense: Bruä

Attached to the last word of a sentence to indicate exclamation: Do

Attached to the last word of a sentence to indicate question: Ko


As this is my first thought-out conlang, Please give constructive crictism that is not flaming. If you would like to help, Either message me on here or Post in this topic.
Last edited by Itsuki Kohaku on 13 Aug 2010 21:40, edited 4 times in total.
In order of knowledge: :eng: :vls: :epo: :fra: :deu: :esp: :jpn: :zho: :fin: :tur: :eus:
Conlangs: :con: Literary Makurungou, :con: Common Makurungou
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Re: Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by teh_Foxx0rz »

Would you mind elaborating on the sounds of your language? It looks interesting, and kinda like Finnish, but it would be nice to know what it sounds like. If you could use IPA or X-sampa that would be good but you sound like you're new to this you could at least explain to us in relative terms. But here's a good site to get you started: http://www.paulmeier.com/ipa/charts.html ;-)

You might want to edit in some of the clarifications you made and the things you added too maybe, new forum, fresh start!
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Re: Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by Itsuki Kohaku »

teh_Foxx0rz wrote:Would you mind elaborating on the sounds of your language? It looks interesting, and kinda like Finnish, but it would be nice to know what it sounds like. If you could use IPA or X-sampa that would be good but you sound like you're new to this you could at least explain to us in relative terms. But here's a good site to get you started: http://www.paulmeier.com/ipa/charts.html ;-)

You might want to edit in some of the clarifications you made and the things you added too maybe, new forum, fresh start!

I was going to add X-SAMPA.. But I had to practice vocabulary for 3 languages.. I'll do it sometime tommorow I think. And yes, It is a bit like Finnish. I had some influences from other languages. For example:
Plural: en is obviously from Dutch. But besides small things, Makurungou is largely unrealated to any Natlang. And with this post, I sign off.
In order of knowledge: :eng: :vls: :epo: :fra: :deu: :esp: :jpn: :zho: :fin: :tur: :eus:
Conlangs: :con: Literary Makurungou, :con: Common Makurungou
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Re: Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by sangi39 »

The best guess I can make using standardish European sound values for graphemes is:

Vowels:

/i u/ <i u>
/e o/ <e o>
/a/ <a>

Not sure what the umlaut indicates though. It could be vowel length, nasalisation or they could indicate completely different vowels given the "like Finnish" description.

Consonants:

/p b t d k g ?/ <p b t d k g '>
/m n N/ <m n ng>
/f v s z h/ <f v s z h>
/w r`* l R j/ <w r l y j>

* Going by "like Japanese R", but given the amount of allophony involved with that sound in Japanese it could even be /4/ or /l\/.

As for <kw x ch dr vl sh pr vr br nd> I'd probably guess <kw> is more a digraph representing the cluster /kw/ rather than a labialised /k/, but I could be wrong and <x> is a hard one to deal with since it most often represents /ks/ but can also be used for /S/ and /x/. As for <sh>, not sure if this is a cluster /sh/ or a single phoneme /S/ and similarly <ch> could either be the cluster /kh/ or the phoneme /x/. As for the rest, they do pretty much just look like consonant clusters /dr vl pr vr br nd/ but really these don't need, IMO, to be mentioned in an orthography section and might better be left to a section related to phonotactics.

EDIT: Actually, looking at one of the translations <kw> could well be a labialised /k/ since it appeared before another consonant with no intermediate vowel.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Re: Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by Itsuki Kohaku »

Posting the IPA to this very soon. (Like in the next 2 hours.)
In order of knowledge: :eng: :vls: :epo: :fra: :deu: :esp: :jpn: :zho: :fin: :tur: :eus:
Conlangs: :con: Literary Makurungou, :con: Common Makurungou
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Re: Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by Ossicone »

This generally well thought out. I would like to see the ipa, when you get to it.

What is a deity/deitess tense? Is it a noun category?

My only issue is: Why foxes would speak like humans? (I assume they are fox-creatures like your avatar.)
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Re: Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by Itsuki Kohaku »

Ossicone wrote:This generally well thought out. I would like to see the ipa, when you get to it.

What is a deity/deitess tense? Is it a noun category?

My only issue is: Why foxes would speak like humans? (I assume they are fox-creatures like your avatar.)

Got the IPA in,

A deity/deitess grammatical form is used for their Relgious texts. It's considered a taboo to use this tense in any context but talking about the Deities of the Zyn'n. To do so would be calling yourself a Deity and comparing yourself to their diviness.

And about the other subject, They have evolved through natural selection to have vocal chords/mouth and throat structures and intelligence to be able to talk very similarly to Humans.

And the Makurungou are not really like my avatar, My avatar is a fox from the Animals of Farthing wood series (Best show ever.) named Plucky. The Makurungou do have Mostly Fox features but are mainly bipedal. The Makurungou language takes it technical terms mainly from Schbulwe, or English. An influx of English terms can be found to be taking place in Makurungou. (Maybe the seedings for a language shift or creolization!) I'm going to derive daughter languages from Makurungou. This will become a liturgical language.
In order of knowledge: :eng: :vls: :epo: :fra: :deu: :esp: :jpn: :zho: :fin: :tur: :eus:
Conlangs: :con: Literary Makurungou, :con: Common Makurungou
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Re: Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by sangi39 »

This is because I just find this layout easier, and it's generally a "convention" on boards like CBB and ZBB in that it arranged phonemes by both manner and position of articulation, i.e. in a similar manner to the IPA table itself, as well as presenting the basic representations of phonemes:

Vowels:

/i/ <ë>
/ɪ ʊ/ <i ü>
/ɛ ø~ ʌ/ <e ÿ u>
/æ/ <a>
/ɑ ɒ/ <o ö>
/eɪ aɪ/ <ä ï>

Consonants:

/p b t d k g q ʔ/ <p b t d k g kw '>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ng>
/f v s z ʃ ʒ h/ <f v s z sh z h>
/w ɺ l j ʁ/ <w r l j y>
/tʃ/ <ch>

Really, as I mentioned in my last post, the consonant clusters don't need be presented in this kind of section and instead they might be better of in a seperate phonotactics section.

Syllable Structure:

I'm also confused by what CVC (VC) (V) (CV) (C) exactly means. Are you saying that each syllable requires a vowel which can be preceded and followed by an optional consonant, i.e. (C)V(C), or does it indicate something else?
Last edited by sangi39 on 13 Aug 2010 01:13, edited 1 time in total.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Re: Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by Itsuki Kohaku »

sangi39 wrote:This is because I just find this layout easier, and it's generally a "convention" on boards like CBB and ZBB in that it arranged phonemes by both manner and position of articulation, i.e. in a similar manner to the IPA table itself, as well as presenting the basic representations of phonemes:

Vowels:

/i/ <ë>
/ɪ ʊ/ <i ü>
/ɛ ø~ ʌ/ <e ÿ u>
/æ/ <a>
/ɑ ɒ/ <o ö>

Unfortunately, at my end the phonemes represented by <ä> and <ï> didn't show up so don't know where they'd fit into the table so I can't really form a full opinion till I know what they are. Would it be possible for you to provide the X-SAMPA equivalents (which can be found on Wikipedia if needs be)? Or possibly the label/name/title/etc. of the phoneme, e.g. "low mid-vowel", "rounded central high vowel"?

Consonants:

/p b t d k g q ʔ/ <p b t d k g kw '>
/m n ŋ/ <m n ng>
/f v s z ʃ ʒ h/ <f v s z sh z h>
/w ɺ l j ʁ/ <w r l j y>
/tʃ/ <ch>

Really, as I mentioned in my last post, the consonant clusters don't need be presented in this kind of section and instead they might be better of in a seperate phonotactics section.

Syllable Structure:

I'm also confused by what CVC (VC) (V) (CV) (C) exactly means. Are you saying that each syllable requires a vowel which can be preceded and followed by an optional consonant, i.e. (C)V(C), or does it indicate something else?

I just keep the clusters in there for my own reference really, I only have information about phonology on here.

And CVC had to be in a word.
The others can be added on to each other to a maximum of: CVCCVVVCC or any order like that.
In order of knowledge: :eng: :vls: :epo: :fra: :deu: :esp: :jpn: :zho: :fin: :tur: :eus:
Conlangs: :con: Literary Makurungou, :con: Common Makurungou
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Re: Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by Itsuki Kohaku »

I added the other values, It appears I had forgotten them before..
In order of knowledge: :eng: :vls: :epo: :fra: :deu: :esp: :jpn: :zho: :fin: :tur: :eus:
Conlangs: :con: Literary Makurungou, :con: Common Makurungou
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Re: Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by Itsuki Kohaku »

Added a few things to Makurungou,
The descriptive tense has made a comeback, A few other small editings of grammar.
I may be removing a few of those. Simplifying others.
I'll be making a colloquial dialect/language of Makurungou along with others from the family including a pidgin!


EDIT: Whoa, Didn't mean for the double post. I should've checked..
EDIT2: Triple.. Sorry about this..
In order of knowledge: :eng: :vls: :epo: :fra: :deu: :esp: :jpn: :zho: :fin: :tur: :eus:
Conlangs: :con: Literary Makurungou, :con: Common Makurungou
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Re: Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by Sankon »

Itsuki Kohaku wrote:Backstory:
The Makurungou are a tribe of semi-nomadic Vulpids. For many centuries the Makurungou were a tribe of disorganized raiders and sheperd nomads. When the current Arwenyid Amantha Sigunda Shikaonij took power a few years ago. He modernized the army a bit. Introduced the Zyn'n religion to the tribe and made English a neccessary subject at tribal learning sessions. Makurungou culture has a set of honorifics for different people. Makurungou culture may seem quite awkward for Humans. Especially in the neighboring Human nation of Validonia. The Validonians speak English.

Makurungou Language: The Makurungou is what the Humans call a "Language Isolate". I guess to that it means that it has no linguistic realitives. (Spelt right?) Wrong! Makurungou is a liturgical language! The commoners sometimes speak many other languages derived from Makurungou and other languages the Human's sometimes speak.
(That last part is an idea for a Language family.)

Makurungou

Vowels:

CVC (VC) (V) (CV) (C)
On the left, phonetic value, on the right, Orthography.
Vowels: æ=a eɪ=ä ɛ=e i=ë ɪ=i aɪ=ï ɑ=o ɒ=ö ʌ=u ᵿ or ʊ̈=ü ø~=ÿ¬ High Nasal Vowel.

Consonants: b=b d=d f=f ɡ=g h=h k=k j=j ( stands for the y sound) l=l m=m n=n p=p q=kw ɺ=r s=s t=t w=w v=v ʔ='(Glottal Stop) ks=x ʒ=z ŋ=ng ʁ=y (uvular fricative) z=z tʃ=ch ʃ=sh dr vl pr vr br nd (These last ones are the only consonant clusters in Makurungou besides inflections)

­ ­ ­

R= Liquidic "R" Somewhat like the Japanese "R"




Grammar:

Nouns:

Deity Tense: Kon

Deitess Tense: Vö

Inanimate Tense: brü

Animate Tense: fü

Past-Tense: be

Present-Tense: bä

Future tense unchanged: bë

Future tense changed: kis

Animalistic Tense: tä

Warlike tense: Hyök

Mating tense: Vrä

Ownership: bü

Descriptive tense: bru

Opposite Indicator: Kü-

Neuter gender: ondë

Male gender: ö

Female gender: ë

Plural: en

Outsider tense: dä

"Inside something": Vlä

To someone or something: Ve

"On something": Vlö




Noun "To Be"

I: Kë

You: Vë

We: Kün

They: Nön

We (plus humans): Kündo

They (plus humans): Nöndä

It: Në



Verbs

Past-tense: beö

Present-tense: bäu

Future tense unchanged: bëö

Future tense changed: kisü

Animalistic tense; täö

Warlike tense: bifü

Mate tense: kürä

Opposite indicator: mö-

Animate tense: füä

Inanimate tense: brüä

Deity tense: konö

Deitess tense: Vöë

Descriptive Tense: Bruä

Attached to the last word of a sentence to indicate exclamation: Do

Attached to the last word of a sentence to indicate question: Ko


As this is my first thought-out conlang, Please give constructive crictism that is not flaming. If you would like to help, Either message me on here or Post in this topic.
How do nouns have tense? What does everything do? In what order do all those affixes go? Syntax?

What you have there is a list of terms and affixes (or particles, I don't know) that don't make sense. Please elaborate if you wish to have more constructive criticism.
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Re: Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by teh_Foxx0rz »

I've just noticed, your vowels are reeeaaallly English for the most part. American English nonetheless... You say it's an isolate, so I find it highly unlikely that your vowels have gone through a similar process to English (I guess it's possible but...)
However, English diphthong-alised vowels did originate from long vowels, and you say this is a liturgical language, so maybe that would be more appropriate? And interesing :-D
Just a thought.
ᵿ/ʊ̈ I like though :-)


It would be nice to see some examples of grammar in sentences :-D
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Re: Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by Itsuki Kohaku »

Sankon wrote:
Itsuki Kohaku wrote:Backstory:
The Makurungou are a tribe of semi-nomadic Vulpids. For many centuries the Makurungou were a tribe of disorganized raiders and sheperd nomads. When the current Arwenyid Amantha Sigunda Shikaonij took power a few years ago. He modernized the army a bit. Introduced the Zyn'n religion to the tribe and made English a neccessary subject at tribal learning sessions. Makurungou culture has a set of honorifics for different people. Makurungou culture may seem quite awkward for Humans. Especially in the neighboring Human nation of Validonia. The Validonians speak English.

Makurungou Language: The Makurungou is what the Humans call a "Language Isolate". I guess to that it means that it has no linguistic realitives. (Spelt right?) Wrong! Makurungou is a liturgical language! The commoners sometimes speak many other languages derived from Makurungou and other languages the Human's sometimes speak.
(That last part is an idea for a Language family.)

Makurungou

Vowels:

CVC (VC) (V) (CV) (C)
On the left, phonetic value, on the right, Orthography.
Vowels: æ=a eɪ=ä ɛ=e i=ë ɪ=i aɪ=ï ɑ=o ɒ=ö ʌ=u ᵿ or ʊ̈=ü ø~=ÿ¬ High Nasal Vowel.

Consonants: b=b d=d f=f ɡ=g h=h k=k j=j ( stands for the y sound) l=l m=m n=n p=p q=kw ɺ=r s=s t=t w=w v=v ʔ='(Glottal Stop) ks=x ʒ=z ŋ=ng ʁ=y (uvular fricative) z=z tʃ=ch ʃ=sh dr vl pr vr br nd (These last ones are the only consonant clusters in Makurungou besides inflections)

­ ­ ­

R= Liquidic "R" Somewhat like the Japanese "R"




Grammar:

Nouns:

Deity Tense: Kon

Deitess Tense: Vö

Inanimate Tense: brü

Animate Tense: fü

Past-Tense: be

Present-Tense: bä

Future tense unchanged: bë

Future tense changed: kis

Animalistic Tense: tä

Warlike tense: Hyök

Mating tense: Vrä

Ownership: bü

Descriptive tense: bru

Opposite Indicator: Kü-

Neuter gender: ondë

Male gender: ö

Female gender: ë

Plural: en

Outsider tense: dä

"Inside something": Vlä

To someone or something: Ve

"On something": Vlö




Noun "To Be"

I: Kë

You: Vë

We: Kün

They: Nön

We (plus humans): Kündo

They (plus humans): Nöndä

It: Në



Verbs

Past-tense: beö

Present-tense: bäu

Future tense unchanged: bëö

Future tense changed: kisü

Animalistic tense; täö

Warlike tense: bifü

Mate tense: kürä

Opposite indicator: mö-

Animate tense: füä

Inanimate tense: brüä

Deity tense: konö

Deitess tense: Vöë

Descriptive Tense: Bruä

Attached to the last word of a sentence to indicate exclamation: Do

Attached to the last word of a sentence to indicate question: Ko


As this is my first thought-out conlang, Please give constructive crictism that is not flaming. If you would like to help, Either message me on here or Post in this topic.
How do nouns have tense? What does everything do? In what order do all those affixes go? Syntax?

What you have there is a list of terms and affixes (or particles, I don't know) that don't make sense. Please elaborate if you wish to have more constructive criticism.

Nouns have tense to agree with the tense that the verb is in.
Example: Kündobä dëndÿbrubäu në nëöve. (We-present-tense give-present-tense it it-malegender-to.

All are attached as suffixes attached to the root word in whatever order. Except for the opposite indicators. As for Syntax, Can be SOV, SVO, or OSV depending on preference. Words describing the Noun or verb have the descriptive tense of whichever their describing attached and can go before or after the word(s) their describing.
I'll describe all the grammatical items next to the name in a few hours most likely.


On the other guy's comment, The neighboring nation to the Makurungou speaks English. The Makurungou are largely bilingual in English and Makurungou. This has in turn affected the vowels of Makurungou. So the vowels are the result of a centuries long Sprachbund. (This has also affected the English spoken by the Makurungou. Almost to the point of another language.) And this is liturgical Makurungou, Spoken by the upper classes.


Example Sentences: Nëöbä jünä xävrën. It-Male Gender-Present Tense Four-Seven years. (He is Forty-Seven years old.)
Last edited by Itsuki Kohaku on 14 Aug 2010 17:10, edited 1 time in total.
In order of knowledge: :eng: :vls: :epo: :fra: :deu: :esp: :jpn: :zho: :fin: :tur: :eus:
Conlangs: :con: Literary Makurungou, :con: Common Makurungou
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Re: Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by Sankon »

Itsuki Kohaku wrote:Nouns have tense to agree with the tense that the verb is in.
Example: Kündobä dëndÿbrubäu në nëöve. (We-present-tense give-present-tense it it-malegender-to.
How did this arise? I haven't seen anything like this attested in a natlang.
Itsuki Kohaku wrote:All are attached as suffixes attached to the root word in whatever order. Except for the opposite indicators. As for Syntax, Can be SOV, SVO, or OSV depending on preference. Words describing the Noun or verb have the descriptive tense of whichever their describing attached and can go before or after the word(s) their describing.
I'll describe all the grammatical items next to the name in a few hours most likely.
In whatever order? Does order somehow subtly change the meaning? What are "opposite indicators"? SOV, SVO, and OSV is not syntax, but just word order. What about ditransitives? Questions? Noun phrases? Verb phrases? Stuff in here?
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Re: Makurungou Language (Moved from last forum.)

Post by Itsuki Kohaku »

Now in creation of Colloquial Makurungou.

It is from this Makurungou that all the dialects will be derived.
In order of knowledge: :eng: :vls: :epo: :fra: :deu: :esp: :jpn: :zho: :fin: :tur: :eus:
Conlangs: :con: Literary Makurungou, :con: Common Makurungou
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