Collaborative Project: Talambrian

[Trailsend]

Hey guys! Is there still interest in the collaborative diachronics-heavy Talambrian project from the old forum?

The Domhantir community is in need of getting the language to a moderately working state for use in world building, so if not, I'll go ahead and forge ahead myself.

Anyone (old or new) still wanting to participate?

[Arzemju]

Just one (stupid) question: what is/are diachronics? I am beginner in linguistics ^^

[Khemehekis]

Diachronics means the way languages evolve over time. English, for instance, evolved from Old English, which evolved from Proto-Germanic, which evolved from Proto-Indo-European. The languages underwent sound changes. Words were replaced one by one, and many words changed meaning (the word "foul", which still means "malodorous" in English, came to mean "lazy" in German (faul)). Over time, the Germanic languages lost most of their case endings, and the Romance languages lost all of their case endings. Languages switch among SVO, SOV, VSO, etc. -- In Indo-European, for instance, we have Gaelic (VSO), Latin (SOV) and Spanish (SVO).

[Crumbs]

Weird, I was just about to go resuscitate this topic myself.
What we have so far:

PHONEME INVENTORY

Spoiler:

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              Labial          Alveolar            Velar            Glottal          
Nasal          m               n n_h 
Plosive        p b             t t_h d             k k_h g 
Fricative      f               s                                    h            
Approximate                                        w
Lateral                        l= 
Rhotic                         r\= r\=_h

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           Front   Central    Back 
Close      i y                u 
Mid        e                  o 
Open       {       a          A

ORTHOGRAPHY

Spoiler:

Obviously a latinization. However, a pretty scripty isn't the purpose of this project, and that might come as a finishing touch, or as a parallel project for anyone who wants to do so.

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Monographs:
<m>       /m/
<n>       /n/
<p>       /p/
<b>       /b/
<t>       /t/
<d>       /d/
<c>       /k/
<g>       /g/
<f>       /f/
<s>       /s/
<h>       /h/
<w>       /w/
<l>       /l=/
<r>       /r\=/

Digraphs:
<nh>      /n_h/
<th>      /t_h/
<ch>      /k_h/
<rh>      /r\_h=/

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Monographs:
<a>       /a/
<e>       /e/
<i>       /i/
<y>       /y/
<o>       /o/
<u>       /u/
<w>       //

Digraphs:
<ei>      /ej/
<ai>      /aj/
<au>      /aw/
<ae>      /{/
<aw>      /A/

SYLLABLE STRUCTURE

Spoiler:

(C)(C)V(V)(N/L) [N = nasal, L = liquid]

Note: All values are in sampa, because IPA doesn't show up on everyone's browser. If you don't know sampa, you can use ascev's converter. The inventory is also in IPA further down this page.

And if I remember correctly, we need to start working on the grammar of the protolang.

Edit: Changed k, kh to c, ch in the orthography, sorry trailsend.

[Trailsend]

Shiny!

One thing on the posted recaps: We have <c ch> in the orthography for /k k_h/, rather than <k kh>.


Do we want to dive into the grammar of the protolang before defining a phonology and sound changes? Phonologies seem to stall projects, so... :P

[Ave94]

Your phonology is really... odd. Why don't you have non-syllabic liquids? And aspirated rhotics and nasals seem kind of weird; do they exist in any natlangs? And I would think /a/ and /{/ would be too similar, causing a merger or shift of some kind. I didn't see your thread in the old forum, but you probably had good rationale for your phonemes.

[Arzemju]

Can we have IPA too please?

[Trailsend]

Why don't you have non-syllabic liquids?

We do. Crumbs' syllable structure shows them appearing in codas, and they show up in plenty of onsets as well. We just left them out of the inventory.

And aspirated rhotics and nasals seem kind of weird; do they exist in any natlangs?

Welsh has aspirated nasals; some analyses posit an aspirated rhotic in Tsonga. (Some consider it "breathy voiced" instead.)

And I would think /a/ and /{/ would be too similar, causing a merger or shift of some kind.

My dialect of English distinguishes /k{t/ "cat" and /kat/ "cot." Wikipedia tells me that many English dialects have both /{ a/, and it suggests that they're phonemic, but I don't know to what extent--the article doesn't provide minimal pairs.

I didn't see your thread in the old forum, but you probably had good rationale for your phonemes.

Heh...not yet. We're working on the development from the protolang, but we need to have the protolang first :P

Can we have IPA too please?

Your wish is my command!

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              Labial          Alveolar            Velar            Glottal          
Nasal          m               n nʰ 
Plosive        p b             t tʰ d             k kʰ g 
Fricative      f               s                                    h            
Approximate                                        w
Lateral                        l̩ l 
Rhotic                         ɹ̩ ɹ̩ʰ ɹ ɹʰ

Code: Select all

           Front   Central    Back 
Close      i y                u 
Mid        e                  o 
Open       æ       a          ɑ

(huh. by some quirk of font, the board doesn't want to display central-open "a" using the correct symbol.)

[rickardspaghetti]

So, this is for Domhantir?

[Trailsend]

'Tis! The Empire of Talambar is one of the major political players in the world (Feayra is not :P ), and most people don't like it very much--it has a penchant for warring and gladiatorial games, and the world's most extensive slave trade. Very shiny rune-based magic system, though.

[rickardspaghetti]

Shiny!

Do they drag in Feayr for the gladiator games? I can imagine what that'd look like.

[Trailsend]

Whenever they can! Getting all the way north to Feayra to take slaves is not an easy task, though, so feayr are a fairly valuable commodity. The whole "humans are the best species evar" sentiment runs pretty heavily in Talambar, so spectators love to see different breeds of "savages" tear each other up.

[Mbwa]

Hey rickard you should help out.

And yeah, I am still interested. I will post back here after thinking a bit. I know we've been on phonology for a while, but there are some things I still think are a little wonky. My suggestion right now is to move straight into other parts of the language. Our syllable structure seems well-defined enough. We don't need to decide right away how the words will sound.

Trailsend, did you have a general idea as far as typology goes?

[jseamus]

Can we resuscitate this corpse? Most of the major players are on this forum.