Strathan language
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Strathan language
The Strathan language is a new project of mine for a micronation. The micronation has a Strathclyde heritage, so this language will be influenced by Goidelic, Brythonic, Scots/Anglo-Saxon and Norse. It will also contain some grammatical innovation because I pretty much always add fun grammar to my a posteriori langs.
Features/ideas:
- Definite suffix(es? not sure whether I want gender yet), indefinite is unmarked.
- Free word order, defaults to VSO, but topical is considered more refined
- Clitics. Lots and lots of clitics.
- Active, passive and middle voices.
- Split ergativity: Subjunctive and conditional moods make things ergative-absolutive. I think this might muddle up the voices? We'll see.
- Prepositional pronouns.
- Initial mutations. Lots and lots of initial mutations.
- Umlauting, strong and weak verbs as well as irregulars
- Terminal devoicing (at this point I bet you're thinking "This guy is basically making German.")
- Etymological-ish rather than purely phonemic or phonetic orthography.
- Lots of religious idioms (since there's a state church)
- Taboo/avoidance on making objects of reverence objects of sentences (so, you'd say "The King was shot", because "Someone shot the King" would be immensely disrespectful) - this, by the way, was inspired by Ava's thoughts on lexical valency
So, yeah, I'll post any further progress here. I'm usually hesitant to publish too much early tinkering, because I like to change stuff a lot and play around with it.
Features/ideas:
- Definite suffix(es? not sure whether I want gender yet), indefinite is unmarked.
- Free word order, defaults to VSO, but topical is considered more refined
- Clitics. Lots and lots of clitics.
- Active, passive and middle voices.
- Split ergativity: Subjunctive and conditional moods make things ergative-absolutive. I think this might muddle up the voices? We'll see.
- Prepositional pronouns.
- Initial mutations. Lots and lots of initial mutations.
- Umlauting, strong and weak verbs as well as irregulars
- Terminal devoicing (at this point I bet you're thinking "This guy is basically making German.")
- Etymological-ish rather than purely phonemic or phonetic orthography.
- Lots of religious idioms (since there's a state church)
- Taboo/avoidance on making objects of reverence objects of sentences (so, you'd say "The King was shot", because "Someone shot the King" would be immensely disrespectful) - this, by the way, was inspired by Ava's thoughts on lexical valency
So, yeah, I'll post any further progress here. I'm usually hesitant to publish too much early tinkering, because I like to change stuff a lot and play around with it.
ML DE / KSH / EN-GB
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
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- hieroglyphic
- Posts: 28
- Joined: 09 Oct 2012 11:58
Re: Strathan language
The future in Strathan! Copypaste from FB comment with a few clarifications:
Strathan has a conjugated future tense as well as a few auxiliaries expressing future-y concepts. I don't actually have the lexemes yet, so have glosses instead:
Read-FUT-1SG
This would be the simple future. I will read.
Is-PRES-1SG before reading.
This is sort of inchoative. I'm about to read.
To read go-PRES-1SG
This is analogous to the English "shall"
To read have-PRES-1SG
This indicates obligation, similar to English, but it implies that it is a positive obligation (as in, one you don't mind), and that it is impending (i.e., the obligation will be fulfilled in future)
Owe-PRES-1SG reading.
This indicates a negative obligation (i.e. one you'd rather not have), and again is future-based.
Owe-PRES-1SG-SUBJ reading.
Putting this auxiliary in the subjunctive indicates that you *should* read, but you're not going to.
And yes, "to"-infinitives tend to come before the verb, while present participles come after. That's not a grammatical rule, it's just how native speakers would habitually do it, unless placing special emphasis (because in general, Strathan word order is topical, with a VSO default)
Also, all of these auxiliaries can of course themselves be given a non-present tense, and then you're basically placing them even further in the future.
Also (last tangent), there's a social etiquette about using owe, have and owe subjunctive. Basically, when you're leaving somewhere and explaining why, you *must* use 'owe' rather than 'have' or the subjunctive of owe, because otherwise the implication is that you'd rather do the other thing than spend more time with the people you're with, which is considered insulting.
Strathan has a conjugated future tense as well as a few auxiliaries expressing future-y concepts. I don't actually have the lexemes yet, so have glosses instead:
Read-FUT-1SG
This would be the simple future. I will read.
Is-PRES-1SG before reading.
This is sort of inchoative. I'm about to read.
To read go-PRES-1SG
This is analogous to the English "shall"
To read have-PRES-1SG
This indicates obligation, similar to English, but it implies that it is a positive obligation (as in, one you don't mind), and that it is impending (i.e., the obligation will be fulfilled in future)
Owe-PRES-1SG reading.
This indicates a negative obligation (i.e. one you'd rather not have), and again is future-based.
Owe-PRES-1SG-SUBJ reading.
Putting this auxiliary in the subjunctive indicates that you *should* read, but you're not going to.
And yes, "to"-infinitives tend to come before the verb, while present participles come after. That's not a grammatical rule, it's just how native speakers would habitually do it, unless placing special emphasis (because in general, Strathan word order is topical, with a VSO default)
Also, all of these auxiliaries can of course themselves be given a non-present tense, and then you're basically placing them even further in the future.
Also (last tangent), there's a social etiquette about using owe, have and owe subjunctive. Basically, when you're leaving somewhere and explaining why, you *must* use 'owe' rather than 'have' or the subjunctive of owe, because otherwise the implication is that you'd rather do the other thing than spend more time with the people you're with, which is considered insulting.
ML DE / KSH / EN-GB
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
Re: Strathan language
Hi, I'm sorry I didn't see this when it was originally posted! The language and the setting/background for it both sound quite interesting, in my opinion. I understand your hesitation to post things early on since the language is likely to change a lot, but I hope we get to see more of the language as time goes on!Friedebarth wrote:The Strathan language is a new project of mine for a micronation. The micronation has a Strathclyde heritage, so this language will be influenced by Goidelic, Brythonic, Scots/Anglo-Saxon and Norse. It will also contain some grammatical innovation because I pretty much always add fun grammar to my a posteriori langs.
Features/ideas:So, yeah, I'll post any further progress here. I'm usually hesitant to publish too much early tinkering, because I like to change stuff a lot and play around with it.Spoiler:
A few questions:
You call the language a posteriori, but I'm curious as to whether you mean it's diachronically derived from a natural language, or it's based on natural languages without being derived from one?
What is the state church?
Also, and pardon my "ignorance", so to speak, on this, but what do you mean by the last part of your last bullet point above? Who is "Ava", and what are their "thoughts on lexical valency"?
No worries about just having glosses at the moment; it's completely understandable. Thanks for sharing this with us. I find the variety of methods available for forming the future very interesting, especially because of the pragmatic differences between some of them that you've mentioned.Friedebarth wrote:The future in Strathan! Copypaste from FB comment with a few clarifications:
Strathan has a conjugated future tense as well as a few auxiliaries expressing future-y concepts. I don't actually have the lexemes yet, so have glosses instead:
Also (last tangent), there's a social etiquette about using owe, have and owe subjunctive. Basically, when you're leaving somewhere and explaining why, you *must* use 'owe' rather than 'have' or the subjunctive of owe, because otherwise the implication is that you'd rather do the other thing than spend more time with the people you're with, which is considered insulting.Spoiler:
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Re: Strathan language
Terminal devoicing is actually found in a lot of unrelated languages https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Final-o ... _languages Also, nothing but that and the strong/weak/irregular verbs are like German, so you're not making German at all. As we all know, German is famous for its VSO word order and initial mutations, as well as its split ergativity.Friedebarth wrote:The Strathan language is a new project of mine for a micronation. The micronation has a Strathclyde heritage, so this language will be influenced by Goidelic, Brythonic, Scots/Anglo-Saxon and Norse. It will also contain some grammatical innovation because I pretty much always add fun grammar to my a posteriori langs.
Features/ideas:
- Definite suffix(es? not sure whether I want gender yet), indefinite is unmarked.
- Free word order, defaults to VSO, but topical is considered more refined
- Clitics. Lots and lots of clitics.
- Active, passive and middle voices.
- Split ergativity: Subjunctive and conditional moods make things ergative-absolutive. I think this might muddle up the voices? We'll see.
- Prepositional pronouns.
- Initial mutations. Lots and lots of initial mutations.
- Umlauting, strong and weak verbs as well as irregulars
- Terminal devoicing (at this point I bet you're thinking "This guy is basically making German.")
- Etymological-ish rather than purely phonemic or phonetic orthography.
- Lots of religious idioms (since there's a state church)
- Taboo/avoidance on making objects of reverence objects of sentences (so, you'd say "The King was shot", because "Someone shot the King" would be immensely disrespectful) - this, by the way, was inspired by Ava's thoughts on lexical valency
So, yeah, I'll post any further progress here. I'm usually hesitant to publish too much early tinkering, because I like to change stuff a lot and play around with it.
No darkness can harm you if you are guided by your own inner light
Re: Strathan language
Well, my dialect has tons of clitics, so there's also that.
At kveldi skal dag lęyfa,
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
Konu es bręnnd es,
Mæki es ręyndr es,
Męy es gefin es,
Ís es yfir kømr,
Ǫl es drukkit es.
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- hieroglyphic
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- Joined: 09 Oct 2012 11:58
Re: Strathan language
Thanks, all, for the comments! Apologies for slow replies, I've just started term, I'm taking 30 extra credits as well as an uncredited higher-level course while also helping with a research project, so I'm not going to be stellar at replying expediently for the next...year, basically xD
The latter.shimobaatar wrote:You call the language a posteriori, but I'm curious as to whether you mean it's diachronically derived from a natural language, or it's based on natural languages without being derived from one?
It's Anglo-Catholic, albeit cheating about the apostolic succession because we don't actually have a proper ordained bishop among our ranks.shimobaatar wrote:What is the state church?
Search for the thread "Avalang da dum", that's the one I was referring to :)shimobaatar wrote:Also, and pardon my "ignorance", so to speak, on this, but what do you mean by the last part of your last bullet point above? Who is "Ava", and what are their "thoughts on lexical valency"?
Thank you! Interesting is the aim!shimobaatar wrote:No worries about just having glosses at the moment; it's completely understandable. Thanks for sharing this with us. I find the variety of methods available for forming the future very interesting, especially because of the pragmatic differences between some of them that you've mentioned.
ML DE / KSH / EN-GB
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
Re: Strathan language
Ah, no worries, that's completely understandable; thank you for taking any time at all, really, to post here! Best of luck!Friedebarth wrote:Thanks, all, for the comments! Apologies for slow replies, I've just started term, I'm taking 30 extra credits as well as an uncredited higher-level course while also helping with a research project, so I'm not going to be stellar at replying expediently for the next...year, basically xD
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Re: Strathan language
your language looks nice, have you had some words in the lexicon of Strathan yet?
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Strathan language
I can give you a few tentative items, but I can't promise you that I'll hang on to them or that I'll not change the orthography:k1234567890y wrote:your language looks nice, have you had some words in the lexicon of Strathan yet?
good - bragh
bad - drogh
king - Ri
church - Ceirc
country - Riaghd
First person sg
nominative (/erg) - éa
accusative (/abs) - mi
dative - mi, older variant: migh
genitive - mo
Second person sg
nominative (/erg) - u, older variant: thu
accusative (/abs) - thi
dative - thi, older variant: thigh
genitive - tho
Third person sg (personal)
nominative (/erg) - ce
accusative (/abs) - ci
dative - cim
genitive - co
Third person sg (object)
nominative (/erg) - e
accusative (/abs) - i
dative - im
genitive - o
First person pl
nominative (/erg) - vi
accusative (/abs) - vis
dative - vin
genitive - vo
Second person pl
nominative (/erg) - i
accusative (/abs) - u, older variant: uf
dative - ugh
genitive - ir
Third person pl
nominative (/erg) - ed
accusative (/abs) - id
dative - idem
genitive - dir
Prepositional pronouns for ec ("at")
ecum - 1SG
ecudh - 2SG
eci - 3SG
ecin - 1PL
ecugh - 2PL
ecem - 3PL
ML DE / KSH / EN-GB
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
Re: Strathan language
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA
This is the IPA. People use it when they want to show the language texts to transcribe it phonetically. You could at least show the phonology for your language and show this.
This is the IPA. People use it when they want to show the language texts to transcribe it phonetically. You could at least show the phonology for your language and show this.
Re: Strathan language
Don't be rude. They've made it pretty clear that they don't have vocabulary and phonology and things like that set in stone at the moment. They've presented a good deal of other things for us to look at, though.Birdlang wrote:https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Help:IPA
This is the IPA. People use it when they want to show the language texts to transcribe it phonetically. You could at least show the phonology for your language and show this.
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Re: Strathan language
Indeed. I'm very much aware of IPA, I've consciously chosen not to include it mainly because I haven't decided to what extent, if any, I would like a broad-slender system like in the Goidelic languages. Ditto regarding vowel reduction. However, a few notes:
The digraph <dh> is generally meant to represent [ð] (though of course [θ] word-finally). <gh> ordinarily represents [ɣ~ʁ]/[x~χ], but may also be a [h], [w] or simply silent. Hope that gives some idea, though as I said, can't do the full IPA without settling more on phonological questions beforehand.
On a different note, I've decided register is going to be fairly prominent. Here are some basic phrases in the familiar register, used between family, close friends and intimate partners. The complexity of phrases increases with height of register, so the other registers will follow consecutively.
Hello. Hél.
Please. Cri'. (contraction of cridhilig, "heartily")
Thank you. Tac.
You're welcome. Dovalén. (contracted from "do vali hén", 'your own home')
Sorry. Mo fél. (lit. "my fault")
How are you? Braghas ecudh? (lit. "[is] goodness at you?")
--- I'm well. Micilin. (lit. "a lot")
--- I'm okay. Hiugh. (lit. "mhm")
--- I'm not great. Litilin. (lit. "a little")
--- I'm terrible. Á Bidh. (lit. "on Earth", meaning "at all", here implying "none at all"?)
--- ...and yourself? S ecudhén?
What's up? Maraval á Bidh? (lit. "[any] story at all?")
--- Not much. Gon a thelles. (lit. "not to be told")
--- Oh, ... Hó, ...
Bye! Tá-rá!
The digraph <dh> is generally meant to represent [ð] (though of course [θ] word-finally). <gh> ordinarily represents [ɣ~ʁ]/[x~χ], but may also be a [h], [w] or simply silent. Hope that gives some idea, though as I said, can't do the full IPA without settling more on phonological questions beforehand.
On a different note, I've decided register is going to be fairly prominent. Here are some basic phrases in the familiar register, used between family, close friends and intimate partners. The complexity of phrases increases with height of register, so the other registers will follow consecutively.
Hello. Hél.
Please. Cri'. (contraction of cridhilig, "heartily")
Thank you. Tac.
You're welcome. Dovalén. (contracted from "do vali hén", 'your own home')
Sorry. Mo fél. (lit. "my fault")
How are you? Braghas ecudh? (lit. "[is] goodness at you?")
--- I'm well. Micilin. (lit. "a lot")
--- I'm okay. Hiugh. (lit. "mhm")
--- I'm not great. Litilin. (lit. "a little")
--- I'm terrible. Á Bidh. (lit. "on Earth", meaning "at all", here implying "none at all"?)
--- ...and yourself? S ecudhén?
What's up? Maraval á Bidh? (lit. "[any] story at all?")
--- Not much. Gon a thelles. (lit. "not to be told")
--- Oh, ... Hó, ...
Bye! Tá-rá!
ML DE / KSH / EN-GB
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
- k1234567890y
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Re: Strathan language
It seems that you are trying to make a con-Celtic language? or actually an a priori language that sounds similar to Celtic languages?
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
Re: Strathan language
I like your ideas for phonological things so far, and the register differences mentioned and common phrases listed look quite interesting.Friedebarth wrote:Indeed. I'm very much aware of IPA, I've consciously chosen not to include it mainly because I haven't decided to what extent, if any, I would like a broad-slender system like in the Goidelic languages. Ditto regarding vowel reduction. However, a few notes:
The digraph <dh> is generally meant to represent [ð] (though of course [θ] word-finally). <gh> ordinarily represents [ɣ~ʁ]/[x~χ], but may also be a [h], [w] or simply silent. Hope that gives some idea, though as I said, can't do the full IPA without settling more on phonological questions beforehand.
On a different note, I've decided register is going to be fairly prominent. Here are some basic phrases in the familiar register, used between family, close friends and intimate partners. The complexity of phrases increases with height of register, so the other registers will follow consecutively.
Spoiler:
k1234567890y wrote:It seems that you are trying to make a con-Celtic language? or actually an a priori language that sounds similar to Celtic languages?
Friedebarth wrote:The latter.shimobaatar wrote:You call the language a posteriori, but I'm curious as to whether you mean it's diachronically derived from a natural language, or it's based on natural languages without being derived from one?
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Re: Strathan language
Yeah, what shimo said - Celtic-seeming features are overtly taken over from Celtic, but it's meant to have Germanic influences as well, and quite a few a priori features.
Here are some glosses for the opposite register - this is how most people would address members of the Royal Family, the Princes and Princely Families, and the College of Cardinals. Among themselves, the forms of address are actually in a slightly less elaborate register - so it's very much relative to where on the social ladder you consider yourself to be. I use majesty in the glosses for consistency, but obviously different people have different titles.
Some general remarks as to why these things are the way they are:
- It is taboo to refer to objects of reverence as grammatical objects. Hence, middle and passive constructions! However, this taboo does not apply to noun phrases simply containing the object of reverence. So, "for your Majesty" is not okay, "for your Majesty's pleasure" is, because pleasure itself is not an object of reverence.
- It is considered arrogant to refer to yourself directly in the presence of royals and cardinals.
Some notes:
- Where you see "humble servant", this is only for the secular figures. Speaking to a cardinal, you would refer to yourself as either their "pious charge" (if you have a role in the church) or their "entrusted soul".
Hello.
REL 3SG-POSS-NOM majesty-NOM with-3SG meet-INF-MID 3SG-POSS-GEN majesty-GEN servant-GEN humble-GEN privilege-NOM is
"It is his Majesty's humble servant's privilege that his Majesty is to meet with him."
Notes: The relative clause is promoted out of topicality. The verb is last in the relative clause because of the promotion of "majesty" out of reverence and the with-3SG prepositional pronoun out of topicality. There is a sort of unspoken rule that all clauses in a sentence must have the same order, so that's why it remains verb-final in the main clause, even though the noun phrase "his Majesty's servant" does not deserve any topical or reverential promotion.
Please.
if 3SG-POSS-ABS majesty-ABS deign-PRES-COND-3PL
"If his Majesty would deign."
Thank you.
for 3SG-POSS-GEN majesty-GEN generosity-ACC person-NOM is grateful-SUPL
"One is most grateful for his Majesty's generosity."
You're welcome.
3SG-POSS-GEN majesty-GEN gratitude-NOM person-ACC pleases
"His Majesty's gratitude pleases one."
How are you?
REL person-GEN prayers for 3SG-POSS-GEN majesty-GEN welfare-ACC answer-PLUPERF
"One hopes that one's prayers for his Majesty's welfare have been answered."
Bye.
beg-PRES-COND-3SG sorrowful-SUPL 3SG-POSS-GEN majesty-GEN servant-ABS humble-ABS REL let-PRES-PASS-SUBJ-3SG 3SG-ABS depart-INF in peace-DAT
"His Majesty's humble servant would most sorrowfully beg that he be let depart in peace."
Here are some glosses for the opposite register - this is how most people would address members of the Royal Family, the Princes and Princely Families, and the College of Cardinals. Among themselves, the forms of address are actually in a slightly less elaborate register - so it's very much relative to where on the social ladder you consider yourself to be. I use majesty in the glosses for consistency, but obviously different people have different titles.
Some general remarks as to why these things are the way they are:
- It is taboo to refer to objects of reverence as grammatical objects. Hence, middle and passive constructions! However, this taboo does not apply to noun phrases simply containing the object of reverence. So, "for your Majesty" is not okay, "for your Majesty's pleasure" is, because pleasure itself is not an object of reverence.
- It is considered arrogant to refer to yourself directly in the presence of royals and cardinals.
Some notes:
- Where you see "humble servant", this is only for the secular figures. Speaking to a cardinal, you would refer to yourself as either their "pious charge" (if you have a role in the church) or their "entrusted soul".
Hello.
REL 3SG-POSS-NOM majesty-NOM with-3SG meet-INF-MID 3SG-POSS-GEN majesty-GEN servant-GEN humble-GEN privilege-NOM is
"It is his Majesty's humble servant's privilege that his Majesty is to meet with him."
Notes: The relative clause is promoted out of topicality. The verb is last in the relative clause because of the promotion of "majesty" out of reverence and the with-3SG prepositional pronoun out of topicality. There is a sort of unspoken rule that all clauses in a sentence must have the same order, so that's why it remains verb-final in the main clause, even though the noun phrase "his Majesty's servant" does not deserve any topical or reverential promotion.
Please.
if 3SG-POSS-ABS majesty-ABS deign-PRES-COND-3PL
"If his Majesty would deign."
Thank you.
for 3SG-POSS-GEN majesty-GEN generosity-ACC person-NOM is grateful-SUPL
"One is most grateful for his Majesty's generosity."
You're welcome.
3SG-POSS-GEN majesty-GEN gratitude-NOM person-ACC pleases
"His Majesty's gratitude pleases one."
How are you?
REL person-GEN prayers for 3SG-POSS-GEN majesty-GEN welfare-ACC answer-PLUPERF
"One hopes that one's prayers for his Majesty's welfare have been answered."
Bye.
beg-PRES-COND-3SG sorrowful-SUPL 3SG-POSS-GEN majesty-GEN servant-ABS humble-ABS REL let-PRES-PASS-SUBJ-3SG 3SG-ABS depart-INF in peace-DAT
"His Majesty's humble servant would most sorrowfully beg that he be let depart in peace."
ML DE / KSH / EN-GB
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
Re: Strathan language
What could happen to someone who fails to use this register around high-ranking people? If you consider yourself to be higher on the social ladder than you actually are, might your speech lead to certain consequences?Friedebarth wrote:Here are some glosses for the opposite register - this is how most people would address members of the Royal Family, the Princes and Princely Families, and the College of Cardinals. Among themselves, the forms of address are actually in a slightly less elaborate register - so it's very much relative to where on the social ladder you consider yourself to be. I use majesty in the glosses for consistency, but obviously different people have different titles.
If you've considered things like this yet (and it's perfectly understandable if you haven't), how long do you think it might take the average person to become able to speak in this register with few mistakes? Also, when do you think this register first came into use?Friedebarth wrote: Some general remarks as to why these things are the way they are:
- It is taboo to refer to objects of reverence as grammatical objects. Hence, middle and passive constructions! However, this taboo does not apply to noun phrases simply containing the object of reverence. So, "for your Majesty" is not okay, "for your Majesty's pleasure" is, because pleasure itself is not an object of reverence.
- It is considered arrogant to refer to yourself directly in the presence of royals and cardinals.
As I may have said before, this is an interesting language overall, especially the parts concerning pragmatics.
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- Joined: 09 Oct 2012 11:58
Re: Strathan language
It would be viewed as an insult, and certainly make you a laughing stock and viewed with disfavour by whomever it was you insulted. To what extent it is going to have legal ramifications, I'm not sure. Lèse-majesté will probably be treated as a misdemeanor, certainly it should be grounds for dismissal from high office.shimobaatar wrote:What could happen to someone who fails to use this register around high-ranking people? If you consider yourself to be higher on the social ladder than you actually are, might your speech lead to certain consequences?Friedebarth wrote:Here are some glosses for the opposite register - this is how most people would address members of the Royal Family, the Princes and Princely Families, and the College of Cardinals. Among themselves, the forms of address are actually in a slightly less elaborate register - so it's very much relative to where on the social ladder you consider yourself to be. I use majesty in the glosses for consistency, but obviously different people have different titles.
Well-read/highly-educated people should have relatively little problem doing so fluently without much practice, because it involves grammatical constructs they ought to be able to use anyway, and the rules are fairly transparent. If you're from a less academic background, though, you'd probably be better off memorising a couple of set phrases and sentence structures, and avoiding anything more complicated/impromptu. This is almost a bit intentional, since there is a high correlation in this polity between academic merit and class.shimobaatar wrote:If you've considered things like this yet (and it's perfectly understandable if you haven't), how long do you think it might take the average person to become able to speak in this register with few mistakes?
I'm afraid because of the nature of this project, there isn't much in the way of diachronics to be done (which I agree is a shame, I generally enjoy historical linguistics). It belongs to a brick-and-mortar micronation (you know, along the lines of Molossia et al), which is quite conscious of the fact that it has only come into being recently. Consequently, creating a history for the language would not make much sense. Strathan is overtly an artlang.shimobaatar wrote:Also, when do you think this register first came into use?
Thank you :) I'm glad it's capturing people's interest. The artistic/intellectual merit of the language is central.shimobaatar wrote:As I may have said before, this is an interesting language overall, especially the parts concerning pragmatics.
ML DE / KSH / EN-GB
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
Re: Strathan language
Ahh, got it.Friedebarth wrote: It would be viewed as an insult, and certainly make you a laughing stock and viewed with disfavour by whomever it was you insulted. To what extent it is going to have legal ramifications, I'm not sure. Lèse-majesté will probably be treated as a misdemeanor, certainly it should be grounds for dismissal from high office.
No worries.Friedebarth wrote:I'm afraid because of the nature of this project, there isn't much in the way of diachronics to be done (which I agree is a shame, I generally enjoy historical linguistics). It belongs to a brick-and-mortar micronation (you know, along the lines of Molossia et al), which is quite conscious of the fact that it has only come into being recently. Consequently, creating a history for the language would not make much sense. Strathan is overtly an artlang.
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
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Re: Strathan language
Okay, I'm ready for something more practicable. I've decided that I'm going to have a fairly irregular orthography, so I don't really need to worry about being consistent in my mappings between words I invent in writing and how I want them pronounced. So, now I can include IPA for you.
Ladies and gentlemen, the Lord's prayer:
A Fhaidher voe,
som in Himlinen bíos,
névodheis don Anamen.
Cumodhei don Riaghden,
scéodhei don Minnen,
som an Himlinum, so au Ierdhinum fris.
Vo Dags Arainen cuir avin dagins,
Ac logh vin vorn Pecaren,
so som vi loghom vorm Pecadarerum.
Ac gon léd vis an Cathuinen,
ach fo Olcinum sauv vis.
Mar thosén bíodh Riaghdin,
ac Mighdin, ac Dyrdhin,
gu hiver. Amen.
Glosses and IPA, line by line:
Ladies and gentlemen, the Lord's prayer:
A Fhaidher voe,
som in Himlinen bíos,
névodheis don Anamen.
Cumodhei don Riaghden,
scéodhei don Minnen,
som an Himlinum, so au Ierdhinum fris.
Vo Dags Arainen cuir avin dagins,
Ac logh vin vorn Pecaren,
so som vi loghom vorm Pecadarerum.
Ac gon léd vis an Cathuinen,
ach fo Olcinum sauv vis.
Mar thosén bíodh Riaghdin,
ac Mighdin, ac Dyrdhin,
gu hiver. Amen.
Glosses and IPA, line by line:
Spoiler:
ML DE / KSH / EN-GB
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
C1 :gla: SCO
B1 SV
A1 :gla: GD / ES / FR / :gle: GA
A0 :fao: FO / LA
Re: Strathan language
The language looks and sounds quite nice, in my opinion. It's very interesting to have the text glossed in such detail.Friedebarth wrote:Okay, I'm ready for something more practicable. I've decided that I'm going to have a fairly irregular orthography, so I don't really need to worry about being consistent in my mappings between words I invent in writing and how I want them pronounced. So, now I can include IPA for you.
Glosses and IPA, line by line:Spoiler:
Spoiler:
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
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