Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

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All4Ɇn
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn »

𢺺價 (Vã·Gà)- Discounts
𢺺價 is the Ởnh·Vú word for discount and literally means "divide the price". Like in Mandarin, Ởnh·Vú discounts are expressed in a way that is basically the opposite of how they are in English. Rather than saying how much of a price's total was subtracted off the original price, Ởnh·Vú discounts simply show what percentage something costs now compared to the original price. Why so many languages don't do it this way I'll never know because even as a native English speaker, this method makes way more sense to me! Below are explanations behind two phrases used for expressing discounts


𢺺(名詞)X百分 (Vã (menh·rư) X bac·pun)- To make (a noun) X% off
This expression literally means "to split (a noun) (to) X percent" and has a variety of translations into English including not only the above but also "to slash (a noun's) price to X%" and other similar expressions. Given how discounts are calculated in Ởnh·Vú, whatever number is placed in X, is the percentage of the total that is paid, not the percentage taken off.

众𢺺利率60百分
Đrí vã lì·luit nam·sủ bac·pun
We are slashing interest rates by 40% (1p.EX.FORM split interest-rate sixty percent)

If expressing a reduction not in something, but in the price of something, the word for price, 價 (gà), must be included in the sentence:
众𢺺𨔈ヌ𧶮價60百分
Đrí vã màinh·màinh mờ gà nam·sủ bac·pun
We are slashing the price of toys by 40%/We are discounting toys 40% (1p.EX.FORM split toy PREP price sixty percent)


抷罖姅(名詞) (Sãnh sả (menh·rư)) - To make (a noun) 50% off
The only discount that can't be used with the previous is 50% which has the completely different expression 抷罖姅 (sãnh sả) which literally means "to make be half".
众抷罖姅利率
Đrí sãnh sả lì·luit
We are slashing interest rates by 50% / We are halving interest rates (1p.EX.FORM be.CAUS half interest-rate)

Like with the previous expression If expressing a reduction not in something, but in the price of something, the word for price, 價 (gà), must be included in the sentence.
众抷罖姅𨔈ヌ𧶮價
Đrí sãnh sả màinh·màinh mờ gà
We are slashing the price of toys by 50% / We are halving the price of toys (1p.EX.FORM be.CAUS half toy PREP price)


X𢺺 (Vã)- X% off
This expression can't exactly be translated literally as 𢺺 is not really used in any similar sense outside of this expression. This expression works identically to Chinese 折, thus in order to find the price of the discounted item from the number listed, the number is multiplied by one tenth and then turned into a percentage:
4𢺺 (Pãt vã) = (4*0.1) = 0.4 = 40% = 60% off
6𢺺 (Nam vã) = (6*0.1) = 0.6 = 60% = 40% off

The only weird number is once again 50%. Although in writing it's still completely regular, in pronunciation the 5 is irregularly said as sả, the word for half:
5𢺺 (Sả vã)- 50% off
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 10 Apr 2023 16:39, edited 6 times in total.
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Khemehekis »

Brilliant share! I've never before seen a conlang description that explained how to express discounts in that language.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn »

Khemehekis wrote: 06 May 2020 18:46 Brilliant share! I've never before seen a conlang description that explained how to express discounts in that language.
Glad you appreciated it! I just went back and made some major changes to it if you're interested. Made things a little less inconsistent
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Sevly »

Love these types of deep lexical posts! I’m gonna have to go back through the thread and read more
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by dva_arla »

I might've entered quite too late to this board, but I have to ask a question: how did an Austronesian language like Ởnh·Vú (and Cham, for the matter) develop its tones?
Conlangs in progress:
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn »

dva_arla wrote: 01 Aug 2020 09:21 I might've entered quite too late to this board, but I have to ask a question: how did an Austronesian language like Ởnh·Vú (and Cham, for the matter) develop its tones?
I still have plenty to post to this board actually [:)]. The Sinosphere is filled with languages from many different families that all developed tones, many of them did so essentially because of the same sound changes. Here are some of the most common sound changes with some examples from from Ởnh·Vú:

1. A final glottal stop is dropped, causing a rising tone: 𦖑/hớ (hear/listen) comes from proto-Chamic /həməʔ/
2. A final -s/-h is dropped, causing a falling tone: 𩈘/bò (face) comes from proto-Chamic /bɔh/
3. A split occurred in many languages including Vietnamese, Thai, and many varieties of Chinese (and is present in Ởnh·Vú) where these two previous tones turned into 4, depending on whether the first consonant was voiced or unvoiced, 杜/tủ comes from proto-Chamic /tuh/, with the <ả> tone splitting from <à> after a voiceless stop

These 3 are the main changes causing the tones throughout East Asia, Ởnh·Vú has many more sound changes caused by tones, some of which are found in many languages in the are others not so much. Some more language specific changes include:

a. An aspirated/murmured consonant is deaspirated, leaving a rising tone: 天/tén (sky) comes from Middle Chinese /tʰen/. This change is fairly recent in Ởnh·Vú and thus is unaffected by the tone split
b. Vowel length is lost and is instead realized as the <ã> tone: 㗂𨖨/bã·sã (language) comes from Sanskrit /bʱɑ́ː.ʂɑː/. A similar situation is found in Ancient Greek long vowels. Intervocalic consonants are typically dropped in Ởnh·Vú, often causing this sound change in its place
c. Chinese loanwords were generally given the same tone as that present when the word was borrowed: 現象/hèn·giánh (phenomena) comes from Middle Chinese /hèn zɨɐ́ŋ/
d. French loanwords generally add a high tone on the finally syllable and often add a low tone to the prior syllables: 價别/gà·tó (cake) comes from French /ɡɑ.to/
e. Some more specific sound changes may cause tone changes such as final /ej/ becoming /í~ì/: 沁泥/ma·ní (bathe) comes from proto-Chamic /manɛj/
f. Words may undergo multiple sound changes which would result in a tone, when this happens the word may change the tone completely: 氣/kĩ (aura/feeling) comes from Middle Chinese /kʰɨ̀i/ where the combination of aspiration and low tone resulted in <ã> becoming this word's tone
g. Sometimes tones in these languages can appear in words seemingly out of nowhere: 芒/bà (carry/bring/wear) comes from proto-Chamic /ba/ and the tone was added later to distinguish it from 𢩮/ba (lead) which is also from (a semantically distinct) pC /ba/


Hopefully this helped shed some light on this and wasn't too long and confusing. I haven't read much about tones in a long time and it was great to get a refresher on this subject.
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by dva_arla »

Wasn't any confusing at all, and a detailed description cannot be too much long! Did some of the changes actually happen in OTL Chamic / Champan language though?
Conlangs in progress:
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn »

dva_arla wrote: 05 Aug 2020 04:13 Wasn't any confusing at all, and a detailed description cannot be too much long! Did some of the changes actually happen in OTL Chamic / Champan language though?
None of these changes are found in proto-Chamic which is part of what makes this whole thing so incredible with the Southeast Asian Sprachbund. Even within languages in the same family, the same or similar sound changes took place independently of each other. In the case of the Chamic languages, some languages even developed tones earlier or later than others in the family. Some have even only gained tones due to recent bilingualism in Vietnamese within the past century or so.
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Zythros Jubi »

Recently I'm planning to make a Sinosphere Austronesian (presumably non-Malayo-Polynesian) conlang. Is it possible for such a language to be spoken in Ryukyu islands? (Without major change in historical background; note that there is little account about Ryukyus before 1200s, so an early Austronesian migration cannot be ruled out)
Lostlang plans: Oghur Turkic, Gallaecian Celtic, Palaeo-Balkanic
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn »

Zythros Jubi wrote: 11 Aug 2020 06:18 Recently I'm planning to make a Sinosphere Austronesian (presumably non-Malayo-Polynesian) conlang. Is it possible for such a language to be spoken in Ryukyu islands? (Without major change in historical background; note that there is little account about Ryukyus before 1200s, so an early Austronesian migration cannot be ruled out)
This seems perfectly reasonable to me. I remember reading about a theory that Japanese is based on an early Austronesian substrate. I doubt this is accurate but it does suggest that your language idea is possible!
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn »

Looking back on this project and I think it's by far the language I'm most proud of. I'm going to work on reviving this thread. If anyone has anyone ideas for posts I could do let me know [:D]
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Khemehekis »

How about . . . physical description?

===Physical Description===
attractive
beautiful
pretty, lovely
handsome
cute (of a young woman or young man)
cute (of a baby/child/animal)
ugly
build, figure
short (height)
tall
fat, overweight
medium
slim, skinny
strong
weak
fit, in shape
young, little (child)
young (teen, twentysomething, thirtysomething)
middle-aged
old, elderly
thick (arms, legs, neck, etc.)
thin (arms, legs, neck, etc.)
blonde
red (hair)
brown (hair, eyes)
black (hair)
grey (hair)
bleach
straight (hair)
curly
wavy
thick (hair)
thin (hair)
messy (of hair)
braids
ponytail
moustache
beard
bald
hazel
fair
dark (complexion)
freckles
mole
pimple
wrinkle
glasses
contact lenses
braces
scar
tattoo
to pierce
to grow (hair, beard, nails)

===More Physical Description===
salt-and-pepper
to dye
part (in hair)
balding
perm
afro
bowl cut
pigtails (loose)
pigtails (braided)
dreadlocks
cornrows
buzz-cut
crew-cut
flat-top
bun
spike
mohawk
mop
flip, wings
bangs
goatee
stubble
sideburns
birthmark
age spot, liver spot
wart
dimple (on cheek)
dimple (on chin)
left-handed
right-handed
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 86,336 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn »

Khemehekis wrote: 15 Apr 2023 01:42 How about . . . physical description?
Another great list [:D]. I’ll start filling in the gaps I have and post it all when I finish
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Khemehekis »

All4Ɇn wrote: 17 Apr 2023 17:39 Another great list [:D]. I’ll start filling in the gaps I have and post it all when I finish
[+1] Looking forward to it.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 86,336 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn »

物理模寫 (Vut·Lứ·Vo·Xéy)- Physical Descriptions

伮𨤔咦? (Nu tã hí)- What does he/she look like?
伮 (Nu)... (He/she is...)
...睠 (ꞗuc)- attractive/charming
...被呦 (đram cảnh)- extremely attractive (literally to be craved/aimed for)
...美𡁛 (mí·non)- cute (from a combination of Sinic 美 & French mignonne)
...罖醜女 (nãnh chú·vú)- ugly (of a woman; literally means COP ugly-woman)
...罖醜男 (nãnh chú·nơm)- ugly (of a man; literally means COP ugly-man)
...罖美人 (nãnh mí·nin)- beautiful (of a woman; literally means COP beautiful-person)
...罖俊美 (nãnh tùn·mí)- handsome/beautiful (of a man; literally means COP handsome-person)
...咍 (xãm)- pretty (literally nice/pleasant)


伮 (Nu)... (He/she is...)
...固中等𧶮高度 (a trunh·tớnh mờ cao·đùo)- of average height/has average height
...𡮣 (bì)- small/little
...䏜 (cãr)- fat (literally thick)
...𥐍 (cỏ)- short
...𡚢 (gõnh)- tall
...𡮹 (lỉ)- thin/skinny
...𡘯 (sỏnh)- big/large


伮𤴓 (Nu dõc)... (He/she)
For these the person is topicalized and their head or hair is the subject
...捉禿 (áo sả)- is bald/has a shaved head
...捉起禿 (áo kí sả)- is balding (literally starting to be bald)
...捉被搞 (áo đram cử)- has a shaved head/is shaved (specifies this specifically over being bald)
...𩅘𠫅 (vo cánh)- has thick/bushy hair (literally hard/firm hair)
...𩅘捲 (vo gũnh)- has curly hair
...𩅘𡮹 (vo lỉ)- has thin hair
...𩅘𣦍 (vo pat)- has straight hair
...𩅘𦇒 (vo sám)- has messy/unkempt hair


伮固 (Nu a)... (He/she has)
...阿𩈪𩅘 (a·dí·vo)- bangs (literally forehead hair)
...鬍 (bủ)- facial hair/a mustache/a beard/etc.
...移𨼚鬍 (bu·ꞗe·bủ)- a goatee
...雞冠𩅘 (key·cưn·vo)- a mohawk (literally cockscomb hair)
...𤵖𤵪 (lu·ca)- a scar/scars
...𠜭墨 (sẻp·mơc)- a tattoo/tattoos (literally pierce ink)
...滿族𩅘 (Ván·Đuc·vo)- braids/a queue (literally Manchu hair)


伮罖 (Nu nãnh)... (He/she is...)
With hair and eye color it is most common to refer to someone as being a person with that hair or eye color. E.G: Instead of saying someone is blond in Ởnh·Vú, you say that someone is a blond-haired person
...𦷨眜𠊛 (đra·mã·ởnh)- brown-eyed
...亟眜𠊛 (ghĩ·mã·ởnh)- grey-eyed
...𩇢眜𠊛 (gio·mã·ởnh)- blue-eyed/green-eyed
...木皮色眜𠊛 (vuc·bè·sưc·mã·ởnh)- hazel-eyed (literally person with tree bark colored eyes)

...黃𩅘𠊛 (ả·vo·ởnh)- blond/blonde (literally person with orange hair; comes from gold literally being "orange metal" in Ởnh·Vú)
...壯𩅘𠊛 (có·vo·ởnh)- white-haired
...𦷨𩅘𠊛 (đra·vo·ởnh)- brown-haired/brunette
...紅𩅘𠊛 (hunh·vo·ởnh)- redheaded/ginger (literally person with crimson hair; based on the Chinese term for redhead)
...萡色𩅘𠊛 (nan·sưc·vo·ởnh)- grey-haired/silver-haired/greying (literally person with silver-colored hair)
...黰𩅘𠊛 (tam·vo·ởnh)- black-haired/jet-black


𠊛 (Ởnh) -> 美 (Mí)
When referring to hair and eye color it is customary in Ởnh·Vú to replace the 𠊛 (ởnh) suffix with 美 (mí) whenever referring to a woman perceived of as attractive. This is similar to words like brunette or blondie in English but is far more common. E.G:
1. Marilyn Monroe罖黃𩅘美 (Marilyn Monroe nãnh ả·vo·mí) means "Marilyn Monroe was blonde/a blondie/a blonde-bombshell"
2. Van Morrison's song Brown-Eyed Girl would most likely be translated into Ởnh·Vú simply as 𦷨眜美 (Đra·Mã·Mí)
Last edited by All4Ɇn on 31 May 2023 02:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Khemehekis »

All4Ɇn wrote: 04 May 2023 20:03 ...美𡁛 (mí·non)- cute (from a combination of Sinic 美 & French mignonne)
Love this confluence!
...捉禿 (áo sả)- is bald/has a shaved head
...捉起禿 (áo kí sả)- is balding (literally starting to be bald)
...捉被搞 (áo đram cử)- has a shaved head/is shaved (specifies this specifically over being bald)
Now I need to put the semantic distinction between losing your hair and shaving your head in one of my conlangs' word for "bald"!
伮固 (Nu a)... (He/she has)
...阿𩈪𩅘 (a·dí·vo)- bangs (literally forehead hair)
...鬍 (bủ)- facial hair/a mustache/a beard/etc.
...移𨼚鬍 (bu·ꞗe·bủ)- a goatee
...雞冠𩅘 (key·cưn·vo)- a mohawk (literally cockscomb hair)
...𤵖𤵪 (lu·ca)- a scar/scars
...𠜭墨 (sẻp·mơc)- a tattoo/tattoos (literally pierce ink)
...滿族𩅘 (Ván·Đuc·vo)- braids/a queue (literally Manchu hair)
Hehehe . . . Manchu hair.

How do you say "ponytail"? "Freckles"?
...木皮色眜𠊛 (vuc·bè·sưc·mã·ởnh)- hazel-eyed (literally person with tree bark colored eyes)
Neat! I have tree-bark-colored eyes!
...黃𩅘𠊛 (ả·vo·ởnh)- blond/blonde (literally person with orange hair; comes from gold literally being "orange metal" in Ởnh·Vú)
...壯𩅘𠊛 (có·vo·ởnh)- white-haired
...𦷨𩅘𠊛 (đra·vo·ởnh)- brown-haired/brunette
...紅𩅘𠊛 (hunh·vo·ởnh)- redheaded/ginger (literally person with crimson hair; based on the Chinese term for redhead)
...萡色𩅘𠊛 (nan·sưc·vo·ởnh)- grey-haired/silver-haired/greying (literally person with silver-colored hair)
...黰𩅘𠊛 (tam·vo·ởnh)- black-haired/jet-black
Interesting that "blonde" is derived from the word for orange, while "redhead" is derived from the word for crimson, because red hair is called *ine rahat (orange hair) in Kankonian.
𠊛 (Ởnh) -> 美 (Mí)
When referring to hair and eye color it is customary in Ởnh·Vú to replace the 𠊛 (ởnh) suffix with 美 (mí) whenever referring to a woman perceived of as attractive. This is similar to words like brunette or blondie in English but is far more common. E.G:
1. Marilyn Monroe罖黃𩅘美 (Marilyn Monroe nãnh ả·vo·mí) means "Marilyn Monroe was blonde/a blondie/a blonde-bombshell"
2. Van Morrison's song Brown-Eyed Girl would most likely be translated into Ởnh·Vú simply as 𦷨眜美 (Đra·Mã·Mí)
Fun idea! I don't have anything like this in any of my conlangs.


Great job, All4Ɇn!
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 86,336 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn »

Khemehekis wrote: 06 May 2023 00:24Love this confluence!
Whenever I see these confluences show up it always makes me so happy!
Khemehekis wrote: 06 May 2023 00:24How do you say "ponytail"? "Freckles"?
Hmm I’ll have to think about these and then add them to the last post
Khemehekis wrote: 06 May 2023 00:24Interesting that "blonde" is derived from the word for orange, while "redhead" is derived from the word for crimson, because red hair is called *ine rahat (orange hair) in Kankonian.
It’s definitely a little confusing but given that Spanish rubio (blond) comes from a Latin word for red, it seems like this development could happen in a Natlang.

Khemehekis wrote: 06 May 2023 00:24Fun idea! I don't have anything like this in any of my conlangs.

Great job, All4Ɇn!
Thanks! [:D] Hoping to have more posts coming soon!
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by Khemehekis »

All4Ɇn wrote: 25 May 2023 22:21
Khemehekis wrote: 06 May 2023 00:24Love this confluence!
Whenever I see these confluences show up it always makes me so happy!
Yeah. Like your word for "cowboy".
Khemehekis wrote: 06 May 2023 00:24How do you say "ponytail"? "Freckles"?
Hmm I’ll have to think about these and then add them to the last post
I'll keep watching your May 4 post looking for them.
Khemehekis wrote: 06 May 2023 00:24Interesting that "blonde" is derived from the word for orange, while "redhead" is derived from the word for crimson, because red hair is called *ine rahat (orange hair) in Kankonian.
It’s definitely a little confusing but given that Spanish rubio (blond) comes from a Latin word for red, it seems like this development could happen in a Natlang.
I always wondered why the Spanish word for blonde sounded like "ruby" and "ruber" instead of something yellow.
Khemehekis wrote: 06 May 2023 00:24Fun idea! I don't have anything like this in any of my conlangs.

Great job, All4Ɇn!
Thanks! [:D] Hoping to have more posts coming soon!
You're welcome. Woo-hoo!
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 86,336 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn »

Khemehekis wrote: 06 May 2023 00:24Yeah. Like your word for "cowboy".
I really need to keep track of them all for a future post! It’s always so much fun whenever they pop up
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Re: Ởnh·Vú- Chamic Language

Post by All4Ɇn »

Final /c̚/
Spelled <ch>, this is by far the rarest phoneme in Ởnh·Vú. It does not occur in Sinic borrowings and only occurs in a few native words as the result of a number of complex and highly specific sound changes. The phoneme has however been greatly extended through French loans as an approximation of final /ʃ ʒ/. Below are all the native, Chamic words containing final /c̚/ not including words derived from the ones listed. More may be added later.

椒 (Ảich)- Pepper
𨦀 (Cách)- Scissors
勿 (Cảich)- To Wrestle
𤿦 (Cuich)- Skin
鐄 (Cũich)- Yellow
艾 (Cũich)- Turmeric
𦡮𥐈 (Cuich·Só)- Lung
𦁼 (Giảich)- To Sew/Stitch
咳 (Ich)- HOR/1P.IMP
𥻻 (Mảich)- Glutinous Rice
𩃳 (Mờch)- Ball
墱 (Pảich)- Bitter
嘲 (Pưch)- To Bow or To Greet
𤾓 (Rãch)- Hundred
㖼 (Tũch)- Beak/Bill
𧤁 (Tuich)- Horn
鯢 (Yảch)- Giant Salamander
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