British Romance Language Collablang

[Esneirra973]

The results are in!

--

197) Should Modern Brettaniot have an orthography reform?
d) No.

198) Should diphthongs be reintroduced via loanwords?
a) Yes.

199) It is 1783 CE. Should Carle I name separate heirs for the Spanish and British thrones? If they do not have separate heirs, the heir would be Carle, Prince of Asturias, the eldest son of Carle I.
a) Yes.

--

There was a tie for this question. It will be voted on again.

200) This question is dependent on the outcome of #199. If you voted no for #199, do not vote on this question. Who should be the heir to the Brettaniot throne?
a) Prince Ferdinand - Younger son of Carle I
b) Prince Gabriel - Younger son of Carle I
c) Prince Antuen Pascial - Younger son of Carle I
d) Philip, Duke of Parma - Younger brother of Carle I
e) Maria Luisa, Holy Roman Empress - Daughter of Carle I
f) Other.

--

201) It is 1787 CE. A revolution against the monarchy in Spain has started, and the Spanish monarchs are requesting our help. How should we react?
a) Send help for the monarchy.
b) Send help for the revolutionaries.
c) Do nothing.
d) Other.

202) What should happen to the affricates in Modern Brettaniot?
a) They should be retained.
b) They should become fricatives.
c) Other.

These are the sound changes that have happened so far from Vulgar Latin to Early Modern Brettaniot. The 8 provinces of Britain are Vianidoçe, Urduviçe, Dynhunie, Drevaçe, Cança, Lundin, Buraw, and Ragiçe. In English, the names are Gwynedd, Powys, Dumnonia, Drevatia, Kent, London, York, and Rheged. Here is a map of the provinces.

Spoiler:

Vulgar Latin to Proto-Brettaniot
/ɪ ʊ/ > /i o/
/skʲ/ > /ʃ/
/kkʲ kʲ gʲ/ > /t͡ʃ t͡ʃ j~d͡ʒ/
/Cs Ct/ > /jʃ jt͡ʃ/
/tʲ dʲ/ > /t͡s d͡z/
/i u e o ɛ ɔ a/ > /i u ei ou iə uə æ~iə/ | in open syllables
/p b t d k g/ > /b v d ð g ɣ/ | between vowels
/i u e o ɛ ɔ a/ > /i u ə o ə o ə/ | unstressed
/u o ou ɔ/ > /y u u o/
/j/ > /d͡ʒ/ | word-initially
/jj/ > /d͡ʒ/ | in medial position
/mn kn gn nj/ > /ɲ/
/pl tl kl gl lj/ > /ʎ/
/t d/ > /θ ð/ /_#
Proto-Brettaniot to Old Brettaniot
/ɣ/ > /j/ | after front vowels
/ɣ/ > /w/
/y/ > /i/
/i u/ > /ɪ ʊ/ | unstressed
/iə uə/ > /ɪ ʊ/
/ij uj ɪj ʊj ej oj ɛj aj/ > /i ui ei oi ei oi ei ai/
/iw uw ɪw ʊw ew ow ɛw aw/ > /iu u eu ou eu ou eu au/
/ɪ ʊ/ > /e o/
The phoneme /h/ entered Old Brettaniot through loanwords.
/ə/ > /∅/ | word-finally
/f θ s/ > /v ð z/ | between vowels
/ui iu/ > /y/
Old Brettaniot to Middle Brettaniot
/y/ > /i/
/ɲ ʎ/ > /ɲ ʎ/, /jɲ~jn jʎ~jl/ after vowels
/ɛ/ > /ea/
/θ ð/ > /d/
/oi eu ei ou ea/ > /we jo je wo ja/
/wj jw/ > /wi ju/ | after consonants
/ai au/ > /ei ou/
The phonemes /ai au/ are reintroduced through loanwords.
/VCə/ > /VːC/
/t͡s d͡z/ > /s z/
/ɲ ʎ/ > /jn jl/ | in coda position
/ei ou ai au/ > /iː uː eː oː/ | unstressed
/e o/ > /i u/ (unstressed)
Middle Brettaniot to Early Modern Brettaniot
/Vi Vu/ > /iː uː/
/iː uː eː oː aː/ > /əi əu ei ou a/
/kw gw/ > /p b/
/r/ > /ʁ/ | only in the southeast (it becomes /ɹ/ elsewhere)
/əi əu ei ou/ > /eː oː iː uː/
/oː/ > /aː/ | when a low vowel follows
short /e o/ > /ɛ ɔ/
/a/ > /æ/
/tj dj sj zj/ > /sj zj sj zj/
/s z/ > /ʃ ʒ/ | after /u i j w/
/ɲ ʎ/ > /jn jl/ word-finally and before consonants, but are retained elsewhere.
/ə/ > /∅/ | VC_CV

And here's the finalized phonology of Early Modern Brettaniot.

Spoiler:

/m n ɲ/ - <m n gn~ni>
/p b t d k g/ - <p b t d c~qu g~gu> (/k g/ are only <qu gu> before the vowels <i>, <y>, and <e>, and /k/ can be written as <c~cq~q> word-finally)
/t͡ʃ d͡ʒ/ - <ci~c gi~g> (/t͡ʃ d͡ʒ/ are only <c g> before the vowels <i>, <y>, and <e>)
/f v s z ʃ/ - <f v s~ss~ç s~z sh~sc> (/ʃ/ is <sc> before front vowels and <s> when coming from former /s/)
/r l ʎ j w/ - <r l gl~li y~i w~u> (the spelling of /ʎ/ is determined etymologically, and /j w/ <i u> except initially, finally, and between vowels)
/kw gw/ - <qu~cu gu>
/i u ə ɛ ɔ æ/ - <i~y~e u~o e e~a o a> (the distinction between <i~y> /i/ and <e~a> /ə/ is determined etymologically)
/iː uː eː oː aː/ - <e~ae o~ao i~y~ai~ay~oi~oy~ae u~au~aw~eu~ew~ao u~au~aw~eu~ew~ao>
(Sequences of /eːC oːC iːC uːC/ can also be written as <iCe uCe eCe oCe>.)

Personal Pronouns:
Subject

Spoiler:

je
ti
ill
illa
nus
vus
ills
illas

Object

Spoiler:

me
te
le
le
nus
vus
les
les

Reflexive

Spoiler:

me
te
se
se
nus
vus
se
se

Disjunctive

Spoiler:

mey
tey
sey
sey
nus
vus
sey
sey

Voting closes on Wednesday (August 14th) at 21:00 EDT. Results will be posted around 30 minutes after that.

[zyma]

200: a
201: c
202: b

I just realized I completely misread question 199 last round. Oh well.

[GoshDiggityDangit]

200: b
201: c
202: a

Could we get a look at a sample text in Brettaniot as is it is now?

[Artaxes]

200.a
201.a
202.a

[Esneirra973]

200: b
201: c
202: a

Could we get a look at a sample text in Brettaniot as is it is now?

Sure!

Le vulpile brun salde rapidment sybre le quen pigriçous.
/lə vulpiːl brun sæld rəpidmənt sibr lə ken pigrisus/
DEF.MS fox brown jump-PRES.SG quickly over DEF.MS dog lazy
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.

Ti pude portar yn cavall á yne river, mais ti nu pude obligarle biver abe.
/ti poːd pɔrtər in kəvæl æ eːn reːvər meːs ti nu poːd ɔbligərlə beːvər æb/
2S can.PRES.SG bring-INF INDEF.MS horse to INDEF.FS river, but 2S NEG can.PRES.SG make-INF-3MS.OBL drink-INF water
You can take a horse to a river, but you can't make it drink water.

[Nmmali]

200: e
201: a
202: a

[Esneirra973]

200. E
201. A
202. A

[this_is_an_account]

200: E
201: A
202: A

Could we also see those example sentences in other Romance languages for comparison?

[Esneirra973]

200: E
201: A
202: A

Could we also see those example sentences in other Romance languages for comparison?

Sure! I'll do comparisons with French, Spanish, and Italian.

English: The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.
Brettaniot: Le vulpile brun salde rapidment sybre le quen pigriçous.
French: Le vif renard brun saute par-dessus le chien paresseux.
Spanish: El veloz zorro marrón salta sobre el perro perezoso.
Italian: La rapida volpe bruna salta oltre il pigro cane.

English: You can take a horse to a river, but you can't make it drink water.
Brettaniot: Ti pude portar yn cavall á yne river, mais ti nu pude obligarle biver abe.
French: Vous pouvez amener un cheval à une rivière, mais vous ne pouvez pas lui faire boire de l'eau.
Spanish: Puedes llevar un caballo a un río pero no puedes obligarlo a beber agua.
Italian: Puoi portare un cavallo su un fiume, ma non puoi fargli bere acqua.

English: I sing. You sing. He sings. We sing. You sing (plu.). They sing.
Brettaniot: Je cante. Ti cante. Ill cante. Nus canten. Vus canten. Ills canten.
French: Je chante. Tu chantes. Il chante. Nous chantons. Vous chantez. Ils chantent.
Spanish: Yo canto. Tú cantas. Él canta. Nosotros cantamos. Ustedes cantan/Vosotros cantáis. Ellos cantan.
Italian: Io canto. Tu canti. Lui canta. Noi cantiamo. Voi cantate. Loro cantano.

English: My hovercraft is full of eels.
Brettaniot: My aerobarque es glen d'ambilles. (The word for hovercraft literally means "aero-boat".)
French: Mon aéroglisseur est plein d'anguilles.
Spanish: Mi aerodeslizador está lleno de anguilas.
Italian: Il mio aeroscafo è pieno di anguille.

Just a heads up, I used Google Translate for the French and Italian translations of the second example. Although Spanish and Italian are both pro-drop languages, I included the respective pronouns in the last example to compare them with their French and Brettaniot counterparts.

[eldin raigmore]

200: E
201: A
202: A

Could we also see those example sentences in other Romance languages for comparison?

Sure! I'll do comparisons with French, Spanish, and Italian.

English: The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.
Brettaniot: Le vulpile brun salde rapidment sybre le quen pigriçous.
French: Le vif renard brun saute par-dessus le chien paresseux.
Spanish: El veloz zorro marrón salta sobre el perro perezoso.
Italian: La rapida volpe bruna salta oltre il pigro cane.

English: You can take a horse to a river, but you can't make it drink water.
Brettaniot: Ti pude portar yn cavall á yne river, mais ti nu pude obligarle biver abe.
French: Vous pouvez amener un cheval à une rivière, mais vous ne pouvez pas lui faire boire de l'eau.
Spanish: Puedes llevar un caballo a un río pero no puedes obligarlo a beber agua.
Italian: Puoi portare un cavallo su un fiume, ma non puoi fargli bere acqua.

English: I sing. You sing. He sings. We sing. You sing (plu.). They sing.
Brettaniot: Je cante. Ti cante. Ill cante. Nus canten. Vus canten. Ills canten.
French: Je chante. Tu chantes. Il chante. Nous chantons. Vous chantez. Ils chantent.
Spanish: Yo canto. Tú cantas. Él canta. Nosotros cantamos. Ustedes cantan/Vosotros cantáis. Ellos cantan.
Italian: Io canto. Tu canti. Lui canta. Noi cantiamo. Voi cantate. Loro cantano.

English: My hovercraft is full of eels.
Brettaniot: My aerobarque es glen d'ambilles. (The word for hovercraft literally means "aero-boat".)
French: Mon aéroglisseur est plein d'anguilles.
Spanish: Mi aerodeslizador está lleno de anguilas.
Italian: Il mio aeroscafo è pieno di anguille.

Just a heads up, I used Google Translate for the French and Italian translations of the second example. Although Spanish and Italian are both pro-drop languages, I included the respective pronouns in the last example to compare them with their French and Brettaniot counterparts.

Although I’ve unsubscribed from the topic, I still follow it; and I like this post!

[zyma]

Sure!

Spoiler:

Le vulpile brun salde rapidment sybre le quen pigriçous.
/lə vulpiːl brun sæld rəpidmənt sibr lə ken pigrisus/
DEF.MS fox brown jump-PRES.SG quickly over DEF.MS dog lazy
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.

Ti pude portar yn cavall á yne river, mais ti nu pude obligarle biver abe.
/ti poːd pɔrtər in kəvæl æ eːn reːvər meːs ti nu poːd ɔbligərlə beːvər æb/
2S can.PRES.SG bring-INF INDEF.MS horse to INDEF.FS river, but 2S NEG can.PRES.SG make-INF-3MS.OBL drink-INF water
You can take a horse to a river, but you can't make it drink water.

Sure! I'll do comparisons with French, Spanish, and Italian.

Thank you for putting these together! If you happen to have time in the near future, might I request a translation of this sentence as well, for the sake of comparison? No worries at all if you're too busy, of course.

[Esneirra973]

Sure!

Spoiler:

Le vulpile brun salde rapidment sybre le quen pigriçous.
/lə vulpiːl brun sæld rəpidmənt sibr lə ken pigrisus/
DEF.MS fox brown jump-PRES.SG quickly over DEF.MS dog lazy
The quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog.

Ti pude portar yn cavall á yne river, mais ti nu pude obligarle biver abe.
/ti poːd pɔrtər in kəvæl æ eːn reːvər meːs ti nu poːd ɔbligərlə beːvər æb/
2S can.PRES.SG bring-INF INDEF.MS horse to INDEF.FS river, but 2S NEG can.PRES.SG make-INF-3MS.OBL drink-INF water
You can take a horse to a river, but you can't make it drink water.

Sure! I'll do comparisons with French, Spanish, and Italian.

Thank you for putting these together! If you happen to have time in the near future, might I request a translation of this sentence as well, for the sake of comparison? No worries at all if you're too busy, of course.

I can do that.

Illa firme sempre la fenestre avant de diner.
/ilə firm sempr lə fənestr ævənt də deːnər/
3FS close-PRES.SG always DEF.FS window before of dine-INF
She always closes the window before dining.

[Esneirra973]

The results are in!

--

200) This question is dependent on the outcome of #199. If you voted no for #199, do not vote on this question. Who should be the heir to the Brettaniot throne?
e) Maria Luisa, Holy Roman Empress - Daughter of Carle I

201) It is 1787 CE. A revolution against the monarchy in Spain has started, and the Spanish monarchs are requesting our help. How should we react?
a) Send help for the monarchy.

202) What should happen to the affricates in Modern Brettaniot?
a) They should be retained.

--

203) It is 1830 CE. The Spanish Royal Family was executed by revolutionaries, and tensions between Spain and Britain formed due to their support of the monarchy. The Spanish revolution inspired revolutions throughout European colonies in the Americas, with most of Iberian Columbia (OTL Latin America) gaining independence. Tensions are now rising in various Brettaniot colonies, such as Shaymaca, where people feel that the Brettaniot government isn't representing their interests, and is too far away to rule effectively. How should the Brettaniot government respond?
a) Grant the colonies their independence.
b) Make the colonies autonomous regions within the Brettaniot Empire.
c) Ignore them.
d) Other.

204) The ruler of the United Kingdom of Caldunie and Iverdun (UKCI) (OTL Scotland and Ireland) has died without an heir, and the United Kingdom has fallen into a succession crisis. The Brettaniot Royal Family is related to the former ruler, as Edward II Farnese married the Princess of Caldunie. Should the current Brettaniot ruler, Luis I, make a claim for the UKCI’s throne?
a) Yes.
b) No.
c) Other.

205) What dialect will Modern Standard Brettaniot be based on?
a) The dialect of Lundin (London).
b) The dialect of Buraw (York).
c) The dialect of Nove Buraw (New York).
d) The dialect of Vembelgar (Winchester), where the royal family lives. - proposed by this_is_an_account
e) Other. (The placenames in your proposals will be translated when the results are finalized)

These are the sound changes that have happened so far from Vulgar Latin to Modern Brettaniot. The 8 provinces of Britain are Vianidoçe, Urduviçe, Dynhunie, Drevaçe, Cança, Lundin, Buraw, and Ragiçe. In English, the names are Gwynedd, Powys, Dumnonia, Drevatia, Kent, London, York, and Rheged. Here is a map of the provinces.

Spoiler:

Vulgar Latin to Proto-Brettaniot
/ɪ ʊ/ > /i o/
/skʲ/ > /ʃ/
/kkʲ kʲ gʲ/ > /t͡ʃ t͡ʃ j~d͡ʒ/
/Cs Ct/ > /jʃ jt͡ʃ/
/tʲ dʲ/ > /t͡s d͡z/
/i u e o ɛ ɔ a/ > /i u ei ou iə uə æ~iə/ | in open syllables
/p b t d k g/ > /b v d ð g ɣ/ | between vowels
/i u e o ɛ ɔ a/ > /i u ə o ə o ə/ | unstressed
/u o ou ɔ/ > /y u u o/
/j/ > /d͡ʒ/ | word-initially
/jj/ > /d͡ʒ/ | in medial position
/mn kn gn nj/ > /ɲ/
/pl tl kl gl lj/ > /ʎ/
/t d/ > /θ ð/ /_#
Proto-Brettaniot to Old Brettaniot
/ɣ/ > /j/ | after front vowels
/ɣ/ > /w/
/y/ > /i/
/i u/ > /ɪ ʊ/ | unstressed
/iə uə/ > /ɪ ʊ/
/ij uj ɪj ʊj ej oj ɛj aj/ > /i ui ei oi ei oi ei ai/
/iw uw ɪw ʊw ew ow ɛw aw/ > /iu u eu ou eu ou eu au/
/ɪ ʊ/ > /e o/
The phoneme /h/ entered Old Brettaniot through loanwords.
/ə/ > /∅/ | word-finally
/f θ s/ > /v ð z/ | between vowels
/ui iu/ > /y/
Old Brettaniot to Middle Brettaniot
/y/ > /i/
/ɲ ʎ/ > /ɲ ʎ/, /jɲ~jn jʎ~jl/ after vowels
/ɛ/ > /ea/
/θ ð/ > /d/
/oi eu ei ou ea/ > /we jo je wo ja/
/wj jw/ > /wi ju/ | after consonants
/ai au/ > /ei ou/
The phonemes /ai au/ are reintroduced through loanwords.
/VCə/ > /VːC/
/t͡s d͡z/ > /s z/
/ɲ ʎ/ > /jn jl/ | in coda position
/ei ou ai au/ > /iː uː eː oː/ | unstressed
/e o/ > /i u/ (unstressed)
Middle Brettaniot to Early Modern Brettaniot
/Vi Vu/ > /iː uː/
/iː uː eː oː aː/ > /əi əu ei ou a/
/kw gw/ > /p b/
/r/ > /ʁ/ | only in the southeast (it becomes /ɹ/ elsewhere)
/əi əu ei ou/ > /eː oː iː uː/
/oː/ > /aː/ | when a low vowel follows
short /e o/ > /ɛ ɔ/
/a/ > /æ/
/tj dj sj zj/ > /sj zj sj zj/
/s z/ > /ʃ ʒ/ | after /u i j w/
/ɲ ʎ/ > /jn jl/ word-finally and before consonants, but are retained elsewhere.
Early Modern Brettaniot to Modern Brettaniot
/ə/ > /∅/ | VC_CV

And here's the finalized phonology of Early Modern Brettaniot.

Spoiler:

/m n ɲ/ - <m n gn~ni>
/p b t d k g/ - <p b t d c~qu g~gu> (/k g/ are only <qu gu> before the vowels <i>, <y>, and <e>, and /k/ can be written as <c~cq~q> word-finally)
/t͡ʃ d͡ʒ/ - <ci~c gi~g> (/t͡ʃ d͡ʒ/ are only <c g> before the vowels <i>, <y>, and <e>)
/f v s z ʃ/ - <f v s~ss~ç s~z sh~sc> (/ʃ/ is <sc> before front vowels and <s> when coming from former /s/)
/r l ʎ j w/ - <r l gl~li y~i w~u> (the spelling of /ʎ/ is determined etymologically, and /j w/ <i u> except initially, finally, and between vowels)
/kw gw/ - <qu~cu gu>
/i u ə ɛ ɔ æ/ - <i~y~e u~o e e~a o a> (the distinction between <i~y> /i/ and <e~a> /ə/ is determined etymologically)
/iː uː eː oː aː/ - <e~ae o~ao i~y~ai~ay~oi~oy~ae u~au~aw~eu~ew~ao u~au~aw~eu~ew~ao>
(Sequences of /eːC oːC iːC uːC/ can also be written as <iCe uCe eCe oCe>.)

Personal Pronouns:
Subject

Spoiler:

je
ti
ill
illa
nus
vus
ills
illas

Object

Spoiler:

me
te
le
le
nus
vus
les
les

Reflexive

Spoiler:

me
te
se
se
nus
vus
se
se

Disjunctive

Spoiler:

mey
tey
sey
sey
nus
vus
sey
sey

Voting closes on Thursday (August 15th) at 21:00 EDT. Results will be posted around 30 minutes after that.

[zyma]

203: a
204: b
205: a

---

I can do that.

Illa firme sempre la fenestre avant de diner.
/ilə firm sempr lə fənestr ævənt də deːnər/
3FS close-PRES.SG always DEF.FS window before of dine-INF
She always closes the window before dining.

Thank you!

[this_is_an_account]

203: B
204: B
205: D, the dialect of where ever the royal family lives.

[Artaxes]

203.b
204.a
205.a

[Esneirra973]

203: B
204: B
205: D, the dialect of where ever the royal family lives.

The royal family lives in Vembelgar (OTL Winchester).

[Artaxes]

A little larger list of city names could be useful.

Do Winchester dialect belongs to Northwestern or Southeastern group ?

[zyma]

A little larger list of city names could be useful.

Do Winchester dialect belongs to Northwestern or Southeastern group ?

We do have a list of provinces, and the fact that gokupwned5 wrote "(The placenames in your proposals will be translated when the results are finalized)", I assume it would be fine to propose any city or region of real-world Britain even without knowing the Brettaniot name.

As for Winchester, assuming it's in the same place as in our own world, I'd say Southeastern.

[Esneirra973]

A little larger list of city names could be useful.

Do Winchester dialect belongs to Northwestern or Southeastern group ?

We do have a list of provinces, and the fact that gokupwned5 wrote "(The placenames in your proposals will be translated when the results are finalized)", I assume it would be fine to propose any city or region of real-world Britain even without knowing the Brettaniot name.

As for Winchester, assuming it's in the same place as in our own world, I'd say Southeastern.

You are correct. Vembelgar falls under what would be considered one of the Southeastern dialects. You can use OTL English names for placenames if you’d like. I’ll translate every proposal made once the results are in and give it’s etymology. Vembelgar comes from Latin Venta Belgarum, the Roman name for Winchester.