If I understand gestaltist correctly, I'm inclined to agree.
CBB Conlang Relay X
Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
☯ 道可道,非常道
☯ 名可名,非常名
☯ 名可名,非常名
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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
Does it matter? I think the results are pretty interesting, and one of the most notable instances of weirdness came from me translating an Atruozan idiom literally. I didn't mind that it wasn't mentioned in the torch I received, especially because DzêtaRedfang was incredibly thorough about everything else. I included notes about the idioms I used in my torch, but that's just a personal preference.
Actually, I'm getting the impression that some people might be interested in this kind of relay as a way to see how accurately everyone can translate the text, with the goal of keeping it as close to the original as possible by the end, while I've always considered the point of such relays to be that everyone who participated will get to chuckle at seeing how many things changed and got lost in translation by the end.
I could be totally off on this, but if I'm not, maybe for future relays, we could have one ring that's "just for fun", so to speak, and another where the goal is to preserve the meaning of the original text to the best of everyone's ability?
Actually, I'm getting the impression that some people might be interested in this kind of relay as a way to see how accurately everyone can translate the text, with the goal of keeping it as close to the original as possible by the end, while I've always considered the point of such relays to be that everyone who participated will get to chuckle at seeing how many things changed and got lost in translation by the end.
I could be totally off on this, but if I'm not, maybe for future relays, we could have one ring that's "just for fun", so to speak, and another where the goal is to preserve the meaning of the original text to the best of everyone's ability?
Yeah, the affect definitely gave me some trouble. I didn't feel right ignoring it, but I wasn't really sure how to translate it, so I just ended up translating the negative affect as negation and the quizzical one as interrogative.Znex wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018 12:11 To be fair, they're really easy mistakes to make if you're just going quickly off my notes. The Hawntow involved some amount of reference switching, unmarked local adverbs (à la Chinese time adverbs), affect marking (which really just mark the speaker's opinion, eg. "This was a really wholesome thing that happened", vs. "This was really bizarre, let me tell you"), and then there was the "subjunctive" prefix which functioned more as an irrealis-equative marker here rather than the prototypical subjunctive.
Plus it didn't help that when it came to my translation, the identity of the first character had completely disappeared, and with the premise of there being a cafe. I translated rather conservatively there.
CBB Conlang Relay X
I've always thought of these as complementary purposes. The chuckly "fun" of Chinese Whispers/Telephone (of which this is a ramped-up version), even among speakers of the same language, is to see how mangled, lost in translation, the message becomes from beginning to end, even with everyone playing it straight. Deliberately throwing in spanners seems, to me, more obvious and less chuckle worthy.shimobaatar wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018 14:36Actually, I'm getting the impression that some people might be interested in this kind of relay as a way to see how accurately everyone can translate the text, with the goal of keeping it as close to the original as possible by the end, while I've always considered the point of such relays to be that everyone who participated will get to chuckle at seeing how many things changed and got lost in translation by the end.
Probably not so much.
Well, one could give it a try.shimobaatar wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018 14:36I could be totally off on this, but if I'm not, maybe for future relays, we could have one ring that's "just for fun", so to speak, and another where the goal is to preserve the meaning of the original text to the best of everyone's ability?
☯ 道可道,非常道
☯ 名可名,非常名
☯ 名可名,非常名
- DesEsseintes
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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
This.
Following it up with bragging statements about “earning the right” to such spanners takes the fun down yet another level in my opinion, in addition to just being rather poor sportsmanship.
Having said that, and unrelated to this (non-)issue, I’d be interested to see this 15-page torch. In fact, I’d be interested to see all the torches. Will they be made available?
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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
I can send it to you. Do you want the version with or without the gloss and english translation?DesEsseintes wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018 16:09 Having said that, and unrelated to this (non-)issue, I’d be interested to see this 15-page torch. In fact, I’d be interested to see all the torches. Will they be made available?
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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
Ooh I guess without might be fun.DzêtaRedfang wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018 16:43I can send it to you. Do you want the version with or without the gloss and english translation?DesEsseintes wrote: ↑02 Dec 2018 16:09 Having said that, and unrelated to this (non-)issue, I’d be interested to see this 15-page torch. In fact, I’d be interested to see all the torches. Will they be made available?
Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
I have to agree with the other guys in this topic, sorry. Idioms are cool to have and I absolutely endorse using them in relays. But, imagine being in shimobaatar's position, that is, being 6th in the relay. At this point, without further notice, is it not possible whatsoever for him to find out if this is an idiom or just a weird twist caused by the relay's progress. Boldly assuming a specific meaning is way more likely to cause a lot of destruction than just taking it over literally.DzêtaRedfang wrote: ↑01 Dec 2018 21:47NOPE . For what it's worth though, I had to get some form of fun change in there, and the Atruozan idioms are a great way to do that. Also, listen. The torch I sent was 15 pages long, okay? 15 pages of word document in Times New Roman font size 12, which is pretty much the minimum required in order to let the next guy be able to properly decipher most of what is going on. I think at that point I have the right to not give what every single idiom means.gestaltist wrote: ↑01 Dec 2018 11:18Did you provide the idiomatic meaning of that phrase to shimo? If you didn’t, it really is on you...DzêtaRedfang wrote: ↑01 Dec 2018 02:03 For those wondering where the heck the fire and ice came into play in ring one, as well as those who aren't but to whom i will tell this anyways, I am the culprit behind it. In Atruozan, "Nonetheless" is "of ƀeoköltmoþo nölcërlëlđdø̃møþe" in Atruozan, an idiom glossing as "SEM fire(AN)-ESS.ANZ-ADJZ(IN)-ADVZ freeze-NMZ(IN)-ESS.INZ-CNS.INZ-ADJZ(IN)-ADVZ", where "freeze-NMZ" is really "ice-NMZ.Creation/destruction_class", which translates literally to "in a manner like/similar to fire's freezing/the freezing of fire". It ended up translated literally and then somehow became the fiery path that is ice which is great.
For this specific case though, it indeed provided some fun to the relay so everything is fine. I actually would propose to call this relay "The relay of Fire and Ice".
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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
Yeah that was pretty much my fault. I struggled a bit to get a cohesive narrative out of your text (I think I was probably rushing the translation a bit), so I attempted to bring together the apparent fragments in the English translation into some kind of cohesive whole. Then I had the job of translating the thing into Asta, which was a pain, because there were several things in the text which don't correspond well to anything in Asta culture, notably the restaurant (i suppose this is partly my fault for preferring to make technologically simple hunter-gatherers/small-scale agriculturalists isn't it?). I also went for an intentionally eliptical style, which perhaps was a mistake.Dormouse559 wrote: ↑30 Nov 2018 19:58 Ring 2 is a paragon of concision. It has about the same number of sentences as the original (maybe even the same number; the original's punctuation gets dodgy toward the end), but has fewer than half the words. Cut the fat! Kill your darlings!
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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
Iyionaku wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018 14:43 I have to agree with the other guys in this topic, sorry. Idioms are cool to have and I absolutely endorse using them in relays. But, imagine being in shimobaatar's position, that is, being 6th in the relay. At this point, without further notice, is it not possible whatsoever for him to find out if this is an idiom or just a weird twist caused by the relay's progress. Boldly assuming a specific meaning is way more likely to cause a lot of destruction than just taking it over literally.
For this specific case though, it indeed provided some fun to the relay so everything is fine. I actually would propose to call this relay "The relay of Fire and Ice".
Your friendly neighbourhood french-canadian penguin
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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
That makes two of us. I didn't try to create a cohesive narrative in my translation because I couldn't puzzle one out from my source text. That seems to have been by design, though, because the original is largely descriptive, not narrative.Frislander wrote: ↑03 Dec 2018 18:34Yeah that was pretty much my fault. I struggled a bit to get a cohesive narrative out of your text
Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
I think some people were talking about the second mention of the restaurant in ring 1. That started with me, and that was one of the things that I thought for a while about. You can't really just say someone turned away in Mýr; they have to turn away from something (because of the fact that prepositions are actually verbs). At the time, I interpreted it as turning away from the restaurant, but now it seems to me more like it was supposed to be turning away from his problems.
I think this is one of the most fun scenarios in a relay like this, where you're presented with grammatical ambiguity and you have to make a decision because that ambiguity doesn't exist in your language. On the flip side, there are times where you have to introduce ambiguity that wasn't in the text, such as the switch over to first person. (Narratives in Mýr are always in first person regardless of who is actually speaking.)
I think this is one of the most fun scenarios in a relay like this, where you're presented with grammatical ambiguity and you have to make a decision because that ambiguity doesn't exist in your language. On the flip side, there are times where you have to introduce ambiguity that wasn't in the text, such as the switch over to first person. (Narratives in Mýr are always in first person regardless of who is actually speaking.)
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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
Most definitely agreed!
Edit: Substituted a string instrument for a French interjection.
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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
I'm going to just post it here hoping y'all still receive notifications from this. Don't you think its time for a new relay? I'd be up for organizing it, who's up for it?
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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
Once we get, say, 6 people i'll put up a dedicated thread. I assume that'll be when the ukogbanians in discord wake up lol. In the meanwhile i'll be looking for a good initial text.
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Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
Yes.
I’ll use Tèrerjo.
I’ll use Tèrerjo.
Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
I wouldn’t mind joining in one.
Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
Relays are one of the main reasons I'm in this board! 100% in!
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
Re: CBB Conlang Relay X
relayrelayrelayrelay
I'm definitely in! I'll say what lang I'm using when the thread's up.
I'm definitely in! I'll say what lang I'm using when the thread's up.
terram impūram incolāmus
hamteu un mont sug
let us live in a dirty world
hamteu un mont sug
let us live in a dirty world