Yay or Nay?

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cedh
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by cedh »

Ahzoh wrote: 12 Feb 2021 05:02
k1234567890y wrote: 12 Feb 2021 04:06 @Ahzoh

how about largely keeping the original system but modify the /e/ to something else and change the length of the -i, -a and -u endings?
I can't really do anything to the /e/ because as I have it's basically like /n/ is the plural marker in basic state while /:/ is the plural marker in construct state and the oblique endings are basically the nominative endings plus [+raised]. The declension system is pretty featural.
You could say that the masculine /e/-endings originally have /a/ instead (like the feminine). Then, you have two options:

a) If there are several prominent masculine nouns which have the right phonological shape for the sound change *a > e, and no (or very few) feminine nouns have it, the /e/-endings could be analogy-based. Since the development of a triconsonantal root system requires lots of analogy anyway, I'd say this would be plausible enough.

b) Maybe the masculine endings originally did not contain just /a/, but a diphthong /ai/ that became /e/ later on? Or the /i/ was added due to analogy somehow?
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Ahzoh »

Replace lateral fricatives with retroflex series?

Current:
uǧṭaku /uɣtʼɒku/ "camel"
Aḳālu /ɒkʼɒːlu/ "Akalu"
Araś-Īzun /ɒrɒɬ iːzun/ "Vessel of the Gods"
Śād Warḫāla /ɬɒːd wɒrxɒːlɒ/ "Vrkhazhian

/m n ŋ/<m n ñ>
/p pʼ b t tʼ d k kʼ g/<p ṗ b t ṭ d k ḳ g>
/s (t)sʼ z ɬ (t)ɬʼ x ɣ/<s ṣ z ś ṣ́ ḫ ǧ>
/w r l j/< w r l y>

New:
uǧṯ̣aku /uɣʈʼɒku/ "camel"
Aḳālu /ɒkʼɒːlu/ "Akalu"
Araš-Īžun /ɒrɒʂ iːʐun/ "Vessel of the Gods"
Šād Warḫāža /ʂɒːd wɒrxɒːʐɒ/ "Vrkhazhian"

/m n ŋ/<m n ñ>
/p pʼ b t tʼ d ʈ ʈʼ ɖ k kʼ g/<p ṗ b t ṭ d ṯ ṯ̣ ḏ k ḳ g>
/s (t)sʼ z ʂ (ʈ)ʂʼ ʐ x ɣ/<s ṣ z š ṣ̌ ž ḫ ǧ>
/w r l j/< w r l y>
Image Ӯсцьӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image Śād Warḫālu (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by shimobaatar »

I vote "nay", personally.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Ahzoh »

shimobaatar wrote: 24 Feb 2021 02:47 I vote "nay", personally.
It's certainly causing unwanted progressive r-colouring of alveolar consonants in words
Image Ӯсцьӣ (Onschen) [ CWS ]
Image Śād Warḫālu (Vrkhazhian) [ WIKI | CWS ]
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Creyeditor »

Ahzoh wrote: 24 Feb 2021 01:58 Replace lateral fricatives with retroflex series?
I vote nay, too. I really like how your current consonant inventory.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by felipesnark »

For my Iberian West Germanic/Anglian project, should /k/ remain <k> or be spelled <c> before /a o u/ and <qu> before /e i/ in keeping with what's common with the Romance languages in the Iberian peninsula (Spanish and Galician being top inspirations)?

Consonants

Stops: /p t k b d g/ <p t k b d g>
Affricates: /tʃ/ <ch>
Nasals: /m n ɲ/ <m n ñ/
Fricatives / f v s θ ʃ/ <f v s z x>
Liquids: /ɾ r l/ <r r/rr l>
Glides: /j w/ <y/i w/u>
Glottal: /h/ <h>

/ɾ r/ only contrast medially, where the former is <r> and the latter is <rr>.
<y w> are used word initially and word finally.

Vowels

/a e i o u/ <a e i o u>
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by Creyeditor »

I would say yeay for changing it.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by shimobaatar »

felipesnark wrote: 03 Mar 2021 16:23 For my Iberian West Germanic/Anglian project, should /k/ remain <k> or be spelled <c> before /a o u/ and <qu> before /e i/ in keeping with what's common with the Romance languages in the Iberian peninsula (Spanish and Galician being top inspirations)?
A few questions, for context: Has this language historically palatalized /k/ before front vowels? If you were to switch to <ca co cu qui que> /ka ko ku ki ke/, what would <ci ce> represent?

I think that I would personally lean towards keeping /k/ <k>, as in Basque. However, if your goal is to make the language look as much like Spanish/Galician as possible, then I'd recommend going with <ca co cu qui que> /ka ko ku ki ke/ (and probably getting rid of <w> as well).
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by felipesnark »

shimobaatar wrote: 03 Mar 2021 23:24
felipesnark wrote: 03 Mar 2021 16:23 For my Iberian West Germanic/Anglian project, should /k/ remain <k> or be spelled <c> before /a o u/ and <qu> before /e i/ in keeping with what's common with the Romance languages in the Iberian peninsula (Spanish and Galician being top inspirations)?
A few questions, for context: Has this language historically palatalized /k/ before front vowels? If you were to switch to <ca co cu qui que> /ka ko ku ki ke/, what would <ci ce> represent?

I think that I would personally lean towards keeping /k/ <k>, as in Basque. However, if your goal is to make the language look as much like Spanish/Galician as possible, then I'd recommend going with <ca co cu qui que> /ka ko ku ki ke/ (and probably getting rid of <w> as well).
Yes, this language has historically palatalized /k/ before front vowels. If I made the switch, I probably wouldn't use <ce ci>. Historically, some of those <ce ci> would be /t͡ʃe t͡ʃi/ while newer ones would be /θe θi/ (by way of /t͡se t͡si/) if that makes sense. Of course, I could respell one of those.

I don't feel like the language has to look as much like Spanish/Galician as possible; it can have some of its own flavor despite their strong influences.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by shimobaatar »

felipesnark wrote: 03 Mar 2021 23:50 Yes, this language has historically palatalized /k/ before front vowels. If I made the switch, I probably wouldn't use <ce ci>. Historically, some of those <ce ci> would be /t͡ʃe t͡ʃi/ while newer ones would be /θe θi/ (by way of /t͡se t͡si/) if that makes sense. Of course, I could respell one of those.

I don't feel like the language has to look as much like Spanish/Galician as possible; it can have some of its own flavor despite their strong influences.
Thanks for the clarification! I figured that might be the case, since you said that the language is Anglian. You could do something akin to how English generally uses <c> for /k/ before <a o u>, <c> for /s/ before <i e y> (due to French influence, from what I understand), and <ch> for the outcome of historically palatalized /k/. However, my personal preference here would still be to keep /k/ <k>.
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Re: Yay or Nay?

Post by felipesnark »

shimobaatar wrote: 04 Mar 2021 00:22
felipesnark wrote: 03 Mar 2021 23:50 Yes, this language has historically palatalized /k/ before front vowels. If I made the switch, I probably wouldn't use <ce ci>. Historically, some of those <ce ci> would be /t͡ʃe t͡ʃi/ while newer ones would be /θe θi/ (by way of /t͡se t͡si/) if that makes sense. Of course, I could respell one of those.

I don't feel like the language has to look as much like Spanish/Galician as possible; it can have some of its own flavor despite their strong influences.
Thanks for the clarification! I figured that might be the case, since you said that the language is Anglian. You could do something akin to how English generally uses <c> for /k/ before <a o u>, <c> for /s/ before <i e y> (due to French influence, from what I understand), and <ch> for the outcome of historically palatalized /k/. However, my personal preference here would still be to keep /k/ <k>.
Thanks. I am partial to using <k> myself. Your mention of Basque gave me the idea of potentially using <tx> for /t͡ʃ/ since <x> is already /ʃ/...
Visit my website for my blogs and information on my conlangs: http://grwilliams.net/ It's a work in progress!
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