A 'Sino-Turkic' altlang

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dva_arla
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A 'Sino-Turkic' altlang

Post by dva_arla »

To be honest I have yet to decisively decide a name for the language; the language itself is spoken in Outer Manchuria; are there any more ancient names for the region?

Priamurese
Sihotinese
Parhae, a.k.a Balhae
Hajtuq / Qajtuq / Hatuq < (corrupted from 海突 ‘Sea Turks’)
The latter looks the coolest; let’s temporarily take it as a provisional name. You may (and please do!), meanwhile, suggest other names.

Background

After a few months of hitting intellectual blocks everywhere I try to delve into my Modern Khotanese ‘revived-lang’ (amongst which are the limited availability of many important works on the mediaeval Khotanese language, many of which are available only at libraries thousands of kilometres away from where I live) I have, therefore, decided to embark on a less mentally-taxing project: a Chinese lexically-influenced Turkic language (the term ‘Sino-Turkic’ in the title was only used for dramatic effect. From now on I renounce—as a description of the language-- the quite unsettling term). Being, unlike Khotanese, a completely fictional language with no real precedent I could make it as ‘crazy’ and convoluted as I like, without fear of contradicting reality.

Hatuq is a Turkic language spoken in the Republic of Hatuq (or the Priamurian Republic?) which sits in Outer Manchuria, situated in OTL Russian-- and a bit of Chinese—territory. I had also considered several other spots (the Ta-lien peninsula, Shant’ung [which the Gokturks did reach, according to one of the Orkhon inscriptions] but figured out that a Turkic population there would be subjected to too much Chinese influence (linguistic and political), which would serve as a problem to, among other things, the development of a separate Sino-xenic system of reading -- a distinct reading (as in Korean and Japanese) wouldn’t be able to develop there; a populace placed there would most likely keep updating their pronunciation of Chinese loanwords in accordance with the current “official” pronunciations (the latest being “Mandarin” or Put’unghoa), as in Yellow Uyghur and other Turkic languages of Kansu). Which would be quite a bore.

Hatuq has seen heavy Chinese lexical influences due to four major cultural exchanges:
1) Pre-Mongolic cultural contacts—most intense during the Song dynasty, but not as intensive as the latter contacts.
2) Mongol occupation-- Kubilai Khan brought Chinese darughachi into Priamuria ( and Hatuq darughachi into China). It was during this time that Hatuq Sino-xenic pronunciation was fixed.
3) 15th century-- immigration of Chinese-- mainly Hui or Dungan -- craftsmen and merchants, which Korea and Japan lacks, having the effect of ‘vulgarising’ or ‘popularising’ Chinese loanwords (more on that later)
4) 19th century—mass importation of Wasei-kango loanwords, mostly signifying modern concepts and ideas.

The earliest borrowings, however, seems to be Mongolian (uus ‘country’, noköö ‘comrade’). Whether these borrowings are substrates or a result of early Mongolian political domination are still debated. Some loanwords must have entered during the formative periods of Hatuq, and some as late as the 13th century. Other loanwords are loaned by the Russians (pasiipa ‘thank you’, sek’p ‘church’) and Nivkhs , known to the Hatuqs as the ‘Nipsoh’ or ‘Nipjn’ (tah ‘fish abdomen’).

Samples from my sketches
-- do forgive the still unsettled orthography, I haven’t got it (and the phonology) completely figured out yet.

S'ni sööki (or söölik?) pince piite men “I write (to) you a love-letter”
Kki coh pu:ta: “two stacks of hay”
M’nin ata oon pjin paa? “My father has ten wives.”
Oon? Atam jiim paa! “Ten? My father has twenty!”
S'kyete Tee'it Mantutem "Number-one manty shop in the world"
Lejlan'ng sokohmi ööti "The martyrs died for the sake of the fatherland."
Sks-ss! /sx̩.s:s̩/ A vulgar insult.

Numbers:

(Note: In Hatuq it is, as a means of disambiguation from like-sounded monosyllables, common practice to label/name a Haas 漢字 by attaching, proceeding it its native Turkic equivalent in the genitive, cf. Korean eumhuns. pii-n’ng it literally means ‘one’s 1’.)

1 pii-n’ng it 一
2 kki-n’ng j 二
3 uc-‘ng sam 三
4 tööt-‘ng sh 四
5 bee^sh-n‘ng ngu 五
6 tti-n’ng lök 六
7 jtti-n’ng syy 七
8 sexs-‘ng paa 八
9 toxs-‘ng kü 九
10 on-‘ng shp 十

Features

- No phonemically distinctive voiced consonant save for /ʐ/ (at least in the modern standard), and, unlike Chinese, Mongolian, and a handful of Siberian Turkic languages such as Yellow Uyghur and Tuva, no distinctive aspiration either.
- Long vowels carry tones: level (or rising) long vowels derive from post-PT diphthongs and derhotacism, low (or dipping) long vowels derive from, among all other factors, trimoraic phonetic compounds, which gain this sort of tone due to the pitch-stress accent that Hatuq carries. E.g. PT *gelin > kelín > kiyín > kǐnju (bride).

History

The Hatuqs split from the main body of the Turkic people ~4-6th c., slowly drifting eastward from Mongolia, reaching the Amur during the 7th c., when they clashed several times with the Goguryo or whatever Koreanic people settled there. Oral tradition states that the Hatuq Kaghan either had a (quite drunken) game of dice or wrestling with the Korean chieftain to settle the lands southwards; the result stating that the Koreans would gain the whole Korean peninsula and the Hatuqs a tiny strip of soil around the Oluu Biike gulf and the Deer Island.

The deal, though, turned out quite profitably for the Hatuqs. Having honed both their shipfaring skills (by quite a stretch) in the shallow banks of the Amur they are finally ready to tackle the deep seas. This, coupled with Turanian martial blood, prepares them for the incredibly infamous but formidable destiny of their people. In two centuries the ‘Asian Vikings’ (as they famously came to be known by contemporary Western chroniclers) have pillaged the coasts of Yamato, in a century later the rich coasts of Southern China, and a century later they are building hideouts in Luzon. The ‘Ballad of P’kcu’ tells of a fisherman who sails down to said town to rescue his beloved... from a band of Japanese pirates. There are just too many tales an alternate historian can create!
But so as its people are known as (former) pirates is (OTL Vladivostok) known by another- more euphonic- epithet: ‘the Lübeck of Asia’. Despite its outlying position in the world map, Hatuq merchants have managed to establish themselves in many important ports of the Pacific and beyond, despite a home-base which is only worth ginseng and sea-cucumbers. The creation of Hatuq colonial possessions in the Pacific and the Americas are much tempting to add, but since this is mainly a conlang forum, they would have to wait for some other time and place.
In the 15th century, although the Kaghanate was pretty much independent, it saw a wave of immigration from Hui merchants and craftsmen. In 1839 the Kaghan swore an oath of fealty to Halay Tehhong 天皇. More on history later.

I must apologise for the chaotic mess of my scratchpad. Please do share your thoughts on this conlang of mine; every single comment is appreciated and serves to boost my will.

N.B. Just found out that Hatuq is the name of an actual town in Kirin. Now I am not quite sure whether to keep the name.
Last edited by dva_arla on 02 Aug 2020 21:44, edited 7 times in total.

dva_arla
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Re: A 'Sino-Turkic' altlang

Post by dva_arla »

Does anyone happen to have an etymological dictionary of Yakut, and Erdal's Old Turkic Word Formation?

dva_arla
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Re: A 'Sino-Turkic' altlang

Post by dva_arla »

Perhaps I should change the name of the language (and the people) to Tüktin (< *Türk-Tekin, the mythical founder of the Tuktins)?

Phonology

Consonants


Tuktin contains no phonemic distinction of voicing or aspiration. Both phenomena, however, may occur in free variation. Some Tüktins, for instance, aspirate their plosives randomly and liberally. Aspiration may indicate emphasis, and voiced realisation of /s/ is somewhat common.

/m n ŋ/ m n ng
/p t k/ p t k
/ʈʂ/ c
/s ʂ ʐ χ/ s sh j h
/ɾ l/ r l


Vowels


/i y u/ i ü u
/ɛ ø o/ ê ö ô
/ɨ*/ '
/e o/ e o
/a/ a

Notes:
* An ultrashort vowel, often elided/reduced.

Orthography

I plan to eventually create a Phags-pa based orthography to write Tüktin. For now I will be using both Hangul and some sort of Romanisation inspired from (but not identical to) Vietnamese.

The letters below are ordered according to their collation-order (which differs from those of both Hangul and Phags-pa).

k ㄱ ng ㅇ
t ㄷ n ㄴ
p ㅂ m ㅁ
c ㅈ s ㅅ ṣh ㅊ h ㅎ
l ㄹ r ᄛ j ㅿ



Vowels


Tradition divides the vocalic inventory of Tuktin into three classes and the neutral aㅏ:

aㅏ ' ㆍ
Front: i ㅣ ê ㅓ e ㅑ
Front-rounded: ü ㅠ o ㅛ
Back: u ㅜ ô ㅗ o ㅡ

Note that the values of three of the vowels have been altered from those in the Hunminjong: ㅡ and ㆍhave their phonetic values switched, and ㅓhas been used for/e/. Double points indicate vowel-rounding a.k.a "umlaut" (with ㅑ being 'umlauted a') and not a preceding palatal glide as in Korean.

The ara-e ㆍis used sparingly; the Hangul ortography allows vowel-less syllable blocks, for example m's ᄆᅠᆺ 'we [inclusive]. (I'd need to figure out a way to allow the computer to string consonants into vowel-less blocks though... as well as a way to input the obsolete 'half-s' and ara-e)

Vowel tone and length

(this will have to wait until I outfit my keyboard...)

Both the Hangul and Roman transcriptions are provisional; I shall edit them if need be (and have the energy to do so). Meanwhile I shall work at a keyboard layout so that I can input both with much more ease.
Last edited by dva_arla on 02 Aug 2020 21:46, edited 3 times in total.

yangfiretiger121
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Re: A 'Sino-Turkic' altlang

Post by yangfiretiger121 »

Please reorient the stops and nasals to be horizontal, like the other sonority classes. It's really disorienting to read a phonology vertically.
Alien conlangs (Font may be needed for Vai symbols)

dva_arla
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Re: A 'Sino-Turkic' altlang

Post by dva_arla »

yangfiretiger121 wrote:
02 Aug 2020 17:42
Please reorient the stops and nasals to be horizontal, like the other sonority classes.
I had arranged the letters according to their collation order (ABC, a-ka-sa, etc.) in Tuktin, but I'll add a separate list for the phonology.

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Re: A 'Sino-Turkic' altlang

Post by yangfiretiger121 »

dva_arla wrote:
02 Aug 2020 20:54
yangfiretiger121 wrote:
02 Aug 2020 17:42
Please reorient the stops and nasals to be horizontal, like the other sonority classes.
I had arranged the letters according to their collation order (ABC, a-ka-sa, etc.) in Tuktin, but I'll add a separate list for the phonology.
Okay. Thanks for adding the phonology. I was thrown off by the last line of the orthography being, essentially, how it'd appeat in a phonology.
Alien conlangs (Font may be needed for Vai symbols)

dva_arla
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Re: A 'Sino-Turkic' altlang

Post by dva_arla »

I have settled on a system to transcribe the three tones of Tuktin in the Romanisation. Any suggestions for the Hangul?

Tone 0 - short, high. The default:- ms 'we',
Tone 1 - long, level/high:- mơ̂ 'horse', tala̛ 'sea', Tư̈ktiˋn
Tone 2 - long, drop-rise (cf. Mandarin 3rd tone or An. Greek circumflex):- jiˋm 'twenty', pô`xș 'scholar, shaman', ciˋș 'east'
Tone 3 - in the 'urban' dialects, same as tone 1; in the 'rural' dialects, gemination of the following consonant if a plosive, else same as tone 1.
E.g. j°pn 日本 is pronounced /ʐ̩:.pn̩ ~ ʐɨ:.pn̩ ~ ʐʊ:.pn̩/ in the 'urban' dialects, /ʐp.pn̩/ in the 'rural'. Note: the terms 'urban' and 'rural' here are provisionary; I haven't decided yet on a proper division of dialects.

Are the tone marks readable enough, and not liable to be confused with the quote- and other marks? Or any suggestions for a better notation? (honestly tone 1 does not read well anywhere not word-final)

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