(Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here [2010-2020]

[Click]

Analyse /r/ and /l/ as two distinct phonemes which share the same realisation everywhere except before [ɪ].

[DesEsseintes]

Analyse /r/ and /l/ as two distinct phonemes which share the same realisation everywhere except before [ɪ].

Ok. I guess that works. So your reasoning would be that at a previous stage they were different phonemes that then gradually lost the distinction in most environments?

Any natlang precedents?

[kanejam]

Not only is that perfectly realistic, but it makes the phonotactics a lot more interesting. Chinese /y/ and /u/ is only phonemic after /n/ and /l/ or word initially. Otherwise /y/ occurs only after alveolo-palatals and /u/ occurs everywhere else. Another example is that a lot of languages with palatal stops contrast them with Belarus velars only before back vowels (like Icelandic and, I think, Greek).

In your case it could be that different phonemes converged except in that one environment, or that one phoneme with different allophones has only just started becoming phonemic. You would have to expand the phonological history of the language to know how plausible it is.

[DesEsseintes]

Cheers Kanejam

I'm actually all-too familiar with most of the languages you give as examples, yet completely failed to connect any of those to Nınuıntı r/l. That's what happens when one doesn't actually have a linguistics background, I guess.

[Jackk]

Is initial /mʀ-/, /ml-/ => /bʀ-/, /bl-/ plausible?

This would lead to things like this:

mori "He dies" /ˈmore/> mō /ˈmoː/
moruti "He is mortal" /moˈruti/ > brut /ˈbʀut/ "finite"

Is anything like this attested?

[Click]

I don't know whether it's attested, but it's fine. /mʀ-/ /ml-/ → /bʀ-/ /bl-/ is a simple dissimilation.

[Jackk]

I don't know whether it's attested, but it's fine. /mʀ-/ /ml-/ → /bʀ-/ /bl-/ is a simple dissimilation.

Thanks for the advice! I just find making originally related word look completely unrelated really interesting, and I wondered if perhaps I had gone too far :)

[thetha]

You could have /mbl-mbr/ as a midpoint to make it even more naturalistic.

[Egerius]

You could have /mbl-mbr/ as a midpoint to make it even more naturalistic.

And there will be a mild Spanish flavor.

[Avjunza]

I've got a tripartite system for my pronouns, with Ergative, Accusative, Absolutive and Dative forms, the last two being identical except for first person exclusive.

What's most likely to be the unmarked form, Ergative or Accusative or Absolutive?

[Fanael]

The one used for the argument of an intransitive verb.

[eldin raigmore]

The one used for the argument of an intransitive verb.

The original meanings of "nominative" and "absolutive" -- among the reasons for which those labels were chosen as names for those cases -- was that they were the unmarked ("absolute") form of the noun ("nomin-").
Greenberg's got a Universal that says "if there is an unmarked case, then among its meanings is 'the Subject (or Sole argument) of intransitive clauses'".
So IMO "nominative" and "absolutive" are synonyms; we're just in the habit of contrasting ergative with "absolutive" but of contrasting accusative with "nominative".
The three main cases of a tripartite-alignment system would be:

• nominative/absolutive (for only participant of one-participant clauses)
• ergative (for agents)
• accusative (for patients).

Languages with a "marked nominative" would throw a monkey-wrench into my reasoning, though. I think "marked nominative" is a contradiction in terms, like a "clothed nude".
But nothing prevents a tripartite-aligned language from having three marked cases; an intransitive case, an agent (or ergative) case, and a patient (or accusative) case.
It's just not the usual pattern. Economy-of-speech makes it likelier that the intransitive case is re-used for one of the transitive cases, and that the intransitive case be an (and the) unmarked case.

[Stammalor]

Not really the right forum, but many of you are very creative wich is something I need right now. I am having problem with coming up with a name for a character. It doesn't have any criteria based on culture but it needs to be:
1) recognizable
2) not to long (I Think four syllables is enought)
3) Badass and kinda (or very!) scary

If any one of you have read Stephen King (or Cracked.com) you know that he likes to sometimes describe ancient evil och scary things by using modern things and popular culture and it is something like that I am trying.

I should mention that the character is Swedish so it has to be reletable for swedes, thus it is okey for it have English references, but maybe not japanese, but if it sounds AND means something awesome then I see no problem with it. So far I have thought of the following names (in Swedish)

Fear
Panzerman
Nightmare
Loki (the norse god)
Wrath
Bad/big/evil wolf
Hunter (or actually a shorter version, "Jäger" instead of the correct "Jägare")

All help is appreciated

[Click]

Not really the right forum, but many of you are very creative and thus capable.

Creativity does not equal capability. I constantly get new ideas so I can't finish working on anything.

[Aevas]

If any one of you have read Stephen King (or Cracked.com) you know that he likes to sometimes describe ancient evil och scary things by using modern things and popular culture and it is something like that I am trying.

Could you elaborate on this perhaps? I don't quite understand what you mean by this. Ancient monsters etc being named after contemporary characters/concepts?

Hunter (or actually a shorter version, "Jäger" instead of the correct "Jägare")

In case you didn't know, Jäger is the German word.

[Sr. Día]

What if a language didn't have a word for "to be," only "to not be"?

It could make for some interesting circumlocutions when there isn't a good "opposite" word.

Or do you think that would just collapse into being "to be" and kinda invert the meaning of the nouns?

[kanejam]

@Sr Día, maybe you could have a zero copula for the positive form of 'be' and then the verb 'not be' could just be an irregular negative of a verb that's disappeared in the positive.

@Stammalor, Fear, Nightmare and Hunter sound sort of lame in English, but I suppose since it's aimed at swedes this wouldn't really matter. Wrath or Loki sounds cooler but still they all seem a bit cliché. Bad Wolf reminds me of Doctor Who Panzerman sounds really good, even though I don't know what it means (Panther man?). It sort of sounds like a cousin to Slenderman or Bogeyman.

[Stammalor]

I know jäger is a german word but since it is aimed at swedes ans the swedish word is really similer I just didn't mention it. Panzerman is also suppose to be german-ish, "panzer" meaning "tank" (if my school german isn't failing me) and thus Panzerman would be like Tank-man or something :)

With the whole ancient evil and pop-culture I meant that in several of his stories (and many that isn't his) a very cruel and old evil takes the form or name of something more in line with modern culture. Rather than having a villain named natlhuk'qet who is a big smokey spider, you could have a big biker with black beard, every piece of nail on his clothes that he could find and sunglasses where his true nature (the smokey spider) where only hinted, thus creating a scary character that fits in our world and culture but at the same time hints to something worse that we have no knowledge of. Do I explain my idea well? :s

It is suppose to be for a theater piece of sorts and I want the character to have a name that just makes you shiver a little bit just by saying it, kinda like if the character had Lordi or AC/DC as his personal background band where ever he went For example so did one girl a character that was a twist of the queen from Alice in Wonderland, she called hersef "Hjärter Drama" (hearts of Drama"), it was a wordplay of her swedish name (Hjärter dam "heart dame").

If you met someone who made a scary/impressing impression on you and he told you that his name was X, and you thought "no way i'm gonna joke with this guy", then what would that guy's name be? It doesn't matter if it is a bit otherwordly or not an actual name, it is okey to joke around with it (For exemple, another girl named herself "cock teaser").
:)

By the way, they give you a title before tour name so "Mister Black" doesn't really work that well since it would be two titles beside each other

[sangi39]

...kinda like if the character had Lordi or AC/DC as his personal background band where ever he went...

On a related note, but not actually about the main question...

I've personally been falling towards Saatana Palvoo Meitä by Ajattara, but any of the following, I think, would still work better than the Hard Rock ~ Heavy Metal of AC/DC or Lordi:

KING by Satyricon
Satan's Sword by Behemoth
The Chosen Legacy by Dimmu Borgir
Empire or Year of the Snake by Chimaira
Ruin or Break You by Lamb of God

That's just my opinion but I don't think AC/DC or Lordi are either heavy enough and/or dark enough to portray something that's actually "evil" (then again, I don't think Extreme Metal is "evil" either, it's FREAKIN' AWESOME \m/ :D )

[Lao Kou]

What if a language didn't have a word for "to be," only "to not be"?
Or do you think that would just collapse into being "to be" and kinda invert the meaning of the nouns?

Having to negate negation or otherwise circumlocute for basic identification, a = b sentences seems to me a major league drag:

<Knock, knock>
"Who isn't it?"
"It's not not your mother."

<pointing out a kitten to a 2-year-old>
"Look, it's not a puppy!"

In my hands, that would go to zero copula quite quickly, and if any collapsing occurred, it would be "not be" becoming the generic negative marker, a special negative like "нет" or "没", or via sentences like, "It's not that I don't want to go.", maybe morph into some sort of mood marker. That said:

It could make for some interesting circumlocutions when there isn't a good "opposite" word.

Both Chinese and Japanese (and so, I presume, Korean) have sentences along the lines of "I can't not go." for "I must go." (which, though not the most common strategy, is also available in English with the right intonation). So yes, with a dedicated word for "not be", interesting circumlocutions could abound (litotes: "It's not not interesting..."; "Smith is not an uncommon name.") ("Jolt, it's not the uncola!"), but is that a pragmatics game I'd like to play to determine if what I'm about to step in is poison ivy or not?