Page 40 of 46

Re: False cognates

Posted: 27 Jan 2021 16:47
by All4Ɇn
eldin raigmore wrote: 26 Jan 2021 03:12 I seriously thought (still think?) “lazuli” had etymology in common with “azure”?
Those two have the same origin etymologically. Azure comes from French which dropped the initial /l/, perceiving it to be the definite article.

Re: False cognates

Posted: 27 Jan 2021 17:09
by WeepingElf
All4Ɇn wrote: 26 Jan 2021 02:11 :chn: 吠瑠璃 fèi liú lí "lapis lazuli" & :jpn: 瑠璃 ruri "lapis lazuli"
:eng: (lapis) lazuli
liú lí and ruri are both remarkably similar sounding to lazuli but are etymologically unrelated. The Chinese and Japanese word comes from Sanskrit while the English one comes from Persian.
But Sanskrit and Persian are related languages - not knowing the actual words, are they perhaps cognate?

Re: False cognates

Posted: 27 Jan 2021 17:43
by Pabappa
I doubt it. For one thing the final -i in the English is clearly from Latin, not the original Persian, so that brings the intersection down to just two phonemes, /ul/, unless we count /z ~ l/ as an intersection. The etymology given on Wiktionary eliminates even this correspondence, and although with words like this ... Wanderworts i guess .... I always allow for the possibility that we just don't know for sure, I dont think it's likely.

Re: False cognates

Posted: 27 Jan 2021 19:58
by Shemtov
Pabappa wrote: 27 Jan 2021 17:43 I doubt it. For one thing the final -i in the English is clearly from Latin, not the original Persian, so that brings the intersection down to just two phonemes, /ul/, unless we count /z ~ l/ as an intersection. The etymology given on Wiktionary eliminates even this correspondence, and although with words like this ... Wanderworts i guess .... I always allow for the possibility that we just don't know for sure, I dont think it's likely.
Checking on it, the Sanskrit originally meant "Beryl", and is of "unknown origin" itself, while the Persian is tracible to an established PIE root.

Re: False cognates

Posted: 27 Jan 2021 20:18
by WeepingElf
I see.

Re: False cognates

Posted: 31 Jan 2021 22:31
by All4Ɇn
:hun: metsz "cut"
:deu: Metzger "butcher"

Re: False cognates

Posted: 02 Feb 2021 04:24
by Khemehekis
Here's a pair of false cognates between two conlangs by the same person, but it's complete coincidence!

I just noticed these words borrowed from roots (the way we borrow from Latin and Greek or Japanese borrows from Chinese) in some other language in my Kankonian dictionary spreadsheet file:

protium zipto
deuterium dukhto
tritium klankhto

So apparently some other language in the Lehola Galaxy made zip- its root for one, dukh- is root for two, and klankh- its root for three.

These were words between #33,630 and #33,640, so they would have been created in 2012.

And then, as you can see, Nachtuil invented the word zip for "one" when reverse-diachronizing my Txabao from his Kojikeng for me!:

viewtopic.php?f=6&t=7005&p=295167&hilit ... ao#p295167

Re: False cognates

Posted: 08 Feb 2021 07:46
by k1234567890y
Japanese -な (an adjectival ending) v.s. Czech/Slovak(and other cognates in other Slavic languages) -ná (feminine form of -ný, an adjectival ending)

Re: False cognates

Posted: 17 Feb 2021 04:41
by k1234567890y
Japanese /ɯ̟ᵝɕi/ "cattle" v.s. Old Norse uxi "ox"

Re: False cognates

Posted: 23 Feb 2021 23:28
by Khemehekis
:isr: לב lev (heart) and :eng: love

Some crackpot sites say the Hebrew "lev" is the etymon of the English "love". The same kind of sites that say "nature" comes from the Egyptian goddess Neter.

Re: False cognates

Posted: 24 Feb 2021 17:10
by All4Ɇn
:eng: thou (formerly þou)
:eng: you

Given that thou was formerly written as þou and thus could also look like you (like þe/ye) it's easy to think that you was originally just a spelling pronunciation of þou when þ resembled y.

Re: False cognates

Posted: 25 Feb 2021 02:37
by k1234567890y
Japanese benjo (便所) “toilet” v.s. Spanish baño “toilet”

Re: False cognates

Posted: 26 Feb 2021 21:20
by Xonen
All4Ɇn wrote: 24 Feb 2021 17:10 :eng: thou (formerly þou)
:eng: you

Given that thou was formerly written as þou and thus could also look like you (like þe/ye) it's easy to think that you was originally just a spelling pronunciation of þou when þ resembled y.
Better yet, it appears that the spelling <you> could in fact be used for either in Middle English.

Re: False cognates

Posted: 09 Mar 2021 04:40
by k1234567890y
English Chad (“alpha-male” in internet slang) v.s. Palauan chad “person”

They actually would be pronounced differently.

also Latin sol “sun” v.s. Palauan sils “sun”

Re: False cognates

Posted: 27 Mar 2021 15:29
by k1234567890y
got a wave of false cognates:

Manchu boljon "wave" /pɔl.t͡ʃɔn/ v.s. Icelandic bylgja /ˈpɪlca/ "wave"

Chinese /lɑŋ⁵¹/ "wave" v.s. Icelandic hrönn /r̥œnː/ "wave"

Re: False cognates

Posted: 31 Mar 2021 07:35
by Shemtov
A great orthographic one:
:eng: <Like> in its meaning of "similar" :haw: <Like> "id."

Re: False cognates

Posted: 07 Apr 2021 02:30
by Pabappa
English egg ≠ Luganda eggi "egg"

https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/eggi#Luganda

Re: False cognates

Posted: 07 Apr 2021 21:02
by Shemtov
k1234567890y wrote: 27 Mar 2021 15:29 got a wave of false cognates:


Chinese /lɑŋ⁵¹/ "wave" v.s. Icelandic hrönn /r̥œnː/ "wave"
Zhengzhang reconstructs the Old Chinese form as /*raːŋs/, and the non-Mandarin reflexes often have /ɔ/ as the vowel, so sometimes it's even closer.

Re: False cognates

Posted: 09 Apr 2021 14:18
by k1234567890y
Another one:

English know and Old Chinese "scholar, Confucianism" (Old Chinese pronounciation, as given by Baxter–Sagart: /*no/)
Shemtov wrote: 07 Apr 2021 21:02
k1234567890y wrote: 27 Mar 2021 15:29 got a wave of false cognates:


Chinese /lɑŋ⁵¹/ "wave" v.s. Icelandic hrönn /r̥œnː/ "wave"
Zhengzhang reconstructs the Old Chinese form as /*raːŋs/, and the non-Mandarin reflexes often have /ɔ/ as the vowel, so sometimes it's even closer.
yeah, you are right

Re: False cognates

Posted: 15 Apr 2021 05:51
by ɶʙ ɞʛ
Ndok Aisô Sagibleu /saɣiblɛw/ "decadence" vs French Sacre bleu /saq͡χ(ə) blø/

Of course, any "cognate" between a natlang and a conlang is guaranteed to be false.