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Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Posted: 27 Mar 2021 22:13
by k1234567890y
Sanskrit आर्य (ārya) /ˈɑːɾ.jɐ/ “noble, noble one” v.s. Proto-Finnic orja /ˈorjɑ/ "slave"

Also

English friend /fɹɛnd/ v.s. Swedish frände /frɛnˈdɛ/ "relative"

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Posted: 29 Mar 2021 19:26
by Vlürch
k1234567890y wrote: 27 Mar 2021 22:13Sanskrit आर्य (ārya) /ˈɑːɾ.jɐ/ “noble, noble one” v.s. Proto-Finnic orja /ˈorjɑ/ "slave"
At least commonly the Finnish term (also found in other Uralic languages) is considered a loanword from Proto-Indo-Iranian, because speakers of Proto-Uralic enslaved speakers of Proto-Indo-Iranian. So yeah, it's a false friend and unfortunate, but not a coincidence... which is what makes it even more unfortunate. [>_<]

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Posted: 30 Mar 2021 12:54
by k1234567890y
Vlürch wrote: 29 Mar 2021 19:26
k1234567890y wrote: 27 Mar 2021 22:13Sanskrit आर्य (ārya) /ˈɑːɾ.jɐ/ “noble, noble one” v.s. Proto-Finnic orja /ˈorjɑ/ "slave"
At least commonly the Finnish term (also found in other Uralic languages) is considered a loanword from Proto-Indo-Iranian, because speakers of Proto-Uralic enslaved speakers of Proto-Indo-Iranian. So yeah, it's a false friend and unfortunate, but not a coincidence... which is what makes it even more unfortunate. [>_<]
ik it is not a coincidence, but still list them because they are false friends.

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Posted: 01 Apr 2021 13:55
by Xonen
Vlürch wrote: 29 Mar 2021 19:26
k1234567890y wrote: 27 Mar 2021 22:13Sanskrit आर्य (ārya) /ˈɑːɾ.jɐ/ “noble, noble one” v.s. Proto-Finnic orja /ˈorjɑ/ "slave"
At least commonly the Finnish term (also found in other Uralic languages) is considered a loanword from Proto-Indo-Iranian, because speakers of Proto-Uralic enslaved speakers of Proto-Indo-Iranian.
Well, maybe. We know basically nothing about speakers of Proto-Uralic: who they were, where they lived and when they lived, exactly, are all still unanswered questions, AFAIU. So getting into specifics about their culture or policy towards other tribes is iffy, to say the least. Of course, there are certain more recent examples of a parallel connection between an ethnonym and slavery, so it's certainly plausible.


k1234567890y wrote: 30 Mar 2021 12:54ik it is not a coincidence, but still list them because they are false friends.
I'd say these are probably distinct enough in their modern forms that they're not that likely to get mixed up, but then, I haven't really had many discussions about slavery in Sanskrit (or about nobles in Finnish with native speakers of Sanskrit), so I guess I wouldn't really know. 🤔

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Posted: 08 Apr 2021 03:16
by Shemtov
Inter-Chinese false friends:
Mandarin [tʰai˧˩t͡ɕi˧˥]"Tai-chi" Cantonese: [tʰai˧˩t͡ɕi˧˥] or [tʰai˧˩t͡si˧˥] "Grape"