Languages with interesting phonotactics

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k1234567890y
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Re: Languages with interesting phonotactics

Post by k1234567890y »

Zekoslav wrote:
05 Oct 2019 10:01

Allowing /s/ + stop clusters to begin a syllable is actually one of Indo-European peculiarities, since these clusters also go against the sonority hierarchy. In that context Western Romance languages which put a vowel before these clusters are actually making things more normal!
lol sounds interesting, thanks for telling (:
Ser wrote:
04 Oct 2019 23:46
k1234567890y wrote:
04 Oct 2019 17:36
In Old Church Slavonic, all syllables must end in a vowel, while there are consonant clusters. So words like kostь "bone(nom.sg)" is rendered as ko-stь instead of kos-tь
Well, lots of languages are also commonly analyzed with their [st] medial clusters analyzed as onsets, because they allow initial st-, e.g. this is how Italian is usually analyzed. The fun thing about Old Church Slavonic is that even clusters with consonants of the same MOA like [gd] or that go against the sonority hierarchy like [ʒd] as in къгда kŭgda 'when' and дъждь dŭždĭ 'rain' are best analyzed as [kʊ.gda] and [dʊ.ʒdɪ].

This gives Old Church Slavonic a very odd character with mostly CCV and CV syllables, plus the occasional CCCV syllable (where the last C is a [v] or [j] glide):

нѣколико [næ.ko.li.ko] 'some'
срьдьце [srɪ.dɪ.tse] 'heart'
оучител҄ь [u.tʃi.te.lʲɪ] 'teacher'
дльгъ [dlɪ.gʊ] 'long'
чловѣкъ [tʃlo.væ.kʊ] 'person'
оударити [u.da.ri.ti] 'to hit'
хвостъ [xvo.stʊ] 'tail'
хлѣбъ [xlæ.bʊ] 'bread'
женихъ [ʒe.ni.xʊ] '(bride)groom'
стоуденъ [stu.de.nʊ] 'cold'
змиꙗ [zmi.ja] 'snake'
гвоздь [gvo.zdɪ] 'nail (to build things with)'
костьѭ [ko.stɪ.jõ] 'with a/the bone'
гоубител҄ьство [gu.bi.te.lʲɪ.stvo] 'destruction'
землꙗ [ze.mlja] 'soil'
you are right, thanks for telling (:
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.

Nortaneous
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Re: Languages with interesting phonotactics

Post by Nortaneous »

Zekoslav wrote:
05 Oct 2019 10:01
Allowing /s/ + stop clusters to begin a syllable is actually one of Indo-European peculiarities, since these clusters also go against the sonority hierarchy. In that context Western Romance languages which put a vowel before these clusters are actually making things more normal!
It's not that weird -- in many languages in the Tibetic linguistic area, for example, every cluster that isn't of the form CR violates the sonority hierarchy! Typically you have (sonority-violating) FC NC and (sonority-compliant) CR, e.g. /sp- mp- pr-/, but you don't have (sonority-compliant) PF PN FN etc.

My guess is that there are more languages that allow FP- but prohibit PF- than vice versa. This might also hold for NP- and PN-, but NP- can often be analyzed as units. (Of course, not all languages necessarily have grounds for distinguishing between consonants and clusters...)

Solarius
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Re: Languages with interesting phonotactics

Post by Solarius »

IIRC there's a Qiangic language which recently underwent monosyllabicization, but in such a way that the permitted clusters were identical in onset and coda--i.e. [ClaCl] was valid but [ClalC] wasn't.
Check out Ussaria!

Nortaneous
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Re: Languages with interesting phonotactics

Post by Nortaneous »

Solarius wrote:
22 Oct 2019 21:49
IIRC there's a Qiangic language which recently underwent monosyllabicization, but in such a way that the permitted clusters were identical in onset and coda--i.e. [ClaCl] was valid but [ClalC] wasn't.
Ronghong Qiang, described in LaPolla's grammar

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