each other
each other
The children met each other.
They were playing with each other.
They talked with each other.
:roc: 孩子們對方見面。 Multiple sides acting towards a single goal.
他們一起玩耍。 Subject as a single entity.
他們互相談話。 Indicates reciprocal action.
Proto-Vdangku
Zongdiz xhunt igviadān.
Ozoniatān.
Xhunt vdangiakān.
They were playing with each other.
They talked with each other.
:roc: 孩子們對方見面。 Multiple sides acting towards a single goal.
他們一起玩耍。 Subject as a single entity.
他們互相談話。 Indicates reciprocal action.
Proto-Vdangku
Zongdiz xhunt igviadān.
Ozoniatān.
Xhunt vdangiakān.
力在公蝦米????
flags
flags
Re: each other
I'll just give a minimal pair here:
Midhera:
carha-za (chat-3pl.P) - They chatted.
carha-le (chat-RECIP) - They chatted with each other.
(The verb root "carha" means to talk about nothing in particular just to pass the time. "Chat" is the closest translation for this I suppose.)
Midhera:
carha-za (chat-3pl.P) - They chatted.
carha-le (chat-RECIP) - They chatted with each other.
(The verb root "carha" means to talk about nothing in particular just to pass the time. "Chat" is the closest translation for this I suppose.)
Re: each other
I was thinking about this the other day. Thought of making a case that indicates the Verb goes both ways.
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Re: each other
Amjati has a reflexive case. Sorry you're too late for that.
Re: each other
The children met each other.
They were playing with each other.
They talked with each other.
-----
:roc: 孩子們對方見面。 Multiple sides acting towards a single goal.
他們一起玩耍。 Subject as a single entity.
他們互相談話。 Indicates reciprocal action.
-----
Proto-Vdangku
Zongdiz xhunt igviadān.
Ozoniatān.
Xhunt vdangiakān.
-----
Kassunetian
Fezok twammugaasii
fezo-k twamm-u-gaa-sii
child-PL greet-AORIST-RECIPROCAL-3PL.DEF
Liyekkahasri
liyekk-aha-sri
play-IMPERFECT-3PL.REFLEXIVE
Moyeusri
moy-eu-sri
talk-AORIST-3PL.REFLEXIVE
They were playing with each other.
They talked with each other.
-----
:roc: 孩子們對方見面。 Multiple sides acting towards a single goal.
他們一起玩耍。 Subject as a single entity.
他們互相談話。 Indicates reciprocal action.
-----
Proto-Vdangku
Zongdiz xhunt igviadān.
Ozoniatān.
Xhunt vdangiakān.
-----
Kassunetian
Fezok twammugaasii
fezo-k twamm-u-gaa-sii
child-PL greet-AORIST-RECIPROCAL-3PL.DEF
Liyekkahasri
liyekk-aha-sri
play-IMPERFECT-3PL.REFLEXIVE
Moyeusri
moy-eu-sri
talk-AORIST-3PL.REFLEXIVE
Re: each other
Not reflexive. That's when it goes back to the Subject.Ossicone wrote:Amjati has a reflexive case. Sorry you're too late for that.
>:l
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Re: each other
Reflexive and reciprocal can be easily mashed together. :P
Re: each other
Silence!Ossicone wrote:Reflexive and reciprocal can be easily mashed together. :P
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Re: each other
But they don't have to be.Ossicone wrote:Reflexive and reciprocal can be easily mashed together. :P
Besides; it'd be a voice, not a case, right?
"Reflexive" and "reciprocal", when applied to verbs, are voices.
Some languages can't show reflex and recip by inflecting the verb; instead they have special pronouns. "Reflexive" and "reciprocal", when applied to pronouns, are more like persons than like cases IMO.
But "reflexive" and "reciprocal" don't apply to nouns (nor adjectives, but most importantly not to nouns); so they aren't cases. (Unless they're pronoun-only cases, and as I've said I think they're more like "persons" than like "cases" when they apply to pronouns.)
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Re: each other
Eldin, I PM'd you about the reflexive case for nouns in Amjati. (And it is only for reflexives and not reciprocals.)
But maybe you were talking about Valoski's idea.
But maybe you were talking about Valoski's idea.
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Re: each other
I'm not sure anymore what I was talking about. :oops:Ossicone wrote:But maybe you were talking about Valoski's idea.
But, I think that yes, I think I was talking about Valoski's idea of a case that shows the verb goes both ways; if the marker is on the verb it's not a case, it's a voice.
Oh, yes. You have a case that marks its noun as both-agent-and-patient.Ossicone wrote:Eldin, I PM'd you about the reflexive case for nouns in Amjati. (And it is only for reflexives and not reciprocals.)
If one said "Jack-AGT.PAT and Jill-AGT.PAT were kissing", that could be taken either as "Jack and Jill were kissing each other" or "Jack and Jill were kissing themselves". If a language mandatorily* disambiguates it might do so by some other means; perhaps just an extra particle in one clause or the other, or perhaps a voice-marking on the verb in one clause or the other; or perhaps a different form of "and" depending on whether reciprocal or reflexive were meant.
*
Edit: :
Any language could disambiguate optionally, if not obligatorily. Some languages might require the speaker to distinguish between reflexive and reciprocal; others might merely allow it. But it's possible the only means a language provides would be quite wordy: e.g.
"Jack was kissing Jack and Jill was kissing Jill" (reflexive)
vs
"Jack was kissing Jill and Jill was kissing Jack" (reciprocal).
Any language could disambiguate optionally, if not obligatorily. Some languages might require the speaker to distinguish between reflexive and reciprocal; others might merely allow it. But it's possible the only means a language provides would be quite wordy: e.g.
"Jack was kissing Jack and Jill was kissing Jill" (reflexive)
vs
"Jack was kissing Jill and Jill was kissing Jack" (reciprocal).
But as you said in Amjati only the "themselves" interpretation is allowed.
So how in Amjati do you mark reciprocals as opposed to reflexives?
Your PM shows several reflexives, but no reciprocals.
Last edited by eldin raigmore on 31 Aug 2011 19:20, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: each other
I think reciprocals were going to be regularly marked as ERG/ABS or ERG/DAT. I never really decided.
Re: each other
Kala:
kanku ke ntahim pesoye
3P.RECP TOP children meet.PA
The children met each other.
kanku yotiye
3P.RECP play.PA
They were playing with each other.
kanku kalaye
3P.RECP talk.PA
They talked with each other.
kanku ke ntahim pesoye
3P.RECP TOP children meet.PA
The children met each other.
kanku yotiye
3P.RECP play.PA
They were playing with each other.
kanku kalaye
3P.RECP talk.PA
They talked with each other.
g
o
n
e
o
n
e
Re: each other
Wattētexu:
Ko mmōta nāre /Ko mmōta nāre xā raxā
Me maitā xō /Me maitā xō llē raxā
Me kela xō /Me kela xō llē rakā
Ko mmōta nāre /Ko mmōta nāre xā raxā
Me maitā xō /Me maitā xō llē raxā
Me kela xō /Me kela xō llē rakā
Re: each other
The children met each other.
They were playing with each other.
They talked with each other.
Selinki [s"e:liNki]
Ladnem gostraomo go prom-promae
[l"aDnem g"os:trao:mo go pr"om prom"ae]
child-PL meet-PST-3PL with each-other-GEN
Dmo pajeomo go prom-promae
[Dmo paj"e:omo go pr"om prom"ae]
They play-PST-3PL with each-other-GEN
Dmo gomo go prom-promae
[Dmo g"o:mo go pr"om prom"ae]
They talk-PST-3PL with each-other-GEN
They were playing with each other.
They talked with each other.
Selinki [s"e:liNki]
Ladnem gostraomo go prom-promae
[l"aDnem g"os:trao:mo go pr"om prom"ae]
child-PL meet-PST-3PL with each-other-GEN
Dmo pajeomo go prom-promae
[Dmo paj"e:omo go pr"om prom"ae]
They play-PST-3PL with each-other-GEN
Dmo gomo go prom-promae
[Dmo g"o:mo go pr"om prom"ae]
They talk-PST-3PL with each-other-GEN
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Re: each other
Don't we already have a thread in Conlangs about Reflexives and Reciprocals?xinda wrote: The children met each other.
They were playing with each other.
They talked with each other.
:roc: 孩子們對方見面。 Multiple sides acting towards a single goal.
他們一起玩耍。 Subject as a single entity.
他們互相談話。 Indicates reciprocal action.
Proto-Vdangku
Zongdiz xhunt igviadān.
Ozoniatān.
Xhunt vdangiakān.
Should this thread should be locked and re-directed to that other thread?
Or do the Translations deserve a separate thread?
Or do Reciprocals all by themselves (without Reflexives) deserve a separate thread?
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Re: each other
Two men saw each-other
Man and woman saw each-other.
Zidhgebzhail
ozilt gAin-ok
ozil aziedzhila gAin-ok
Spoiler:
Re: each other
Mīrna
Tinar tali can tinar.
child play with child
[tɪnɐr tɐlɪ ʦɐn tɪnɐr]
Nāy vakar can nāy.
3 play with 3
[naːʝ vɐkɐr ʦɐn naːʝ]
Nāy vinvār can nāy.
3 talk with 3
[naːʝ vɪnvaːr ʦɐn naːʝ]
Tinar tali can tinar.
child play with child
[tɪnɐr tɐlɪ ʦɐn tɪnɐr]
Nāy vakar can nāy.
3 play with 3
[naːʝ vɐkɐr ʦɐn naːʝ]
Nāy vinvār can nāy.
3 talk with 3
[naːʝ vɪnvaːr ʦɐn naːʝ]