The food that we were going to sell

A forum for translations, translation challenges etc. Good place to increase your conlang's vocabulary.
User avatar
Chagen
runic
runic
Posts: 3341
Joined: 03 Sep 2011 05:14
Location: Texas

The food that we were going to sell

Post by Chagen »

Somewhat of a complex sentence, this'll test your language's method of forming relative clauses and possible participles.

:eng: The food that we were going to sell can't be sold because our cook is gone.

:con: Pazmat:
Sunuibor Bentiz Wevōsc cjidim ixsunuovam malf na Weviri Vanpezri eovam.
sell-PTCPL.FUT.TRANS food 1PL-LOC be.3SG.NEU-DEON NEG-sell-PTCPL.INTRANS with-reason REL 1PL.POSS-ABSOL cook-person-ABSOL go-PTCPL.INTRANS
(Lit. "The food that was going to be sold by us should be un-sellable with the reason that our cook-person [is] gone)
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
Khemehekis
runic
runic
Posts: 2458
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by Khemehekis »

Ooh, good one!

Before I translate it, though, I'll need to know what "gone" means. Does it mean the chef is dead, or simply that the chef is away?
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
User avatar
Chagen
runic
runic
Posts: 3341
Joined: 03 Sep 2011 05:14
Location: Texas

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by Chagen »

It merely means "away". Notice that the Pazmat translation uses a participle form of "eya" ("to go/walk")
Nūdenku waga honji ma naku honyasi ne ika-ika ichamase!
female-appearance=despite boy-voice=PAT hold boy-youth=TOP very be.cute-3PL
Honyasi zō honyasi ma naidasu.
boy-youth=AGT boy-youth=PAT love.romantically-3S
User avatar
DanH34
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 179
Joined: 13 Jan 2012 01:12
Location: North of The Wall

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by DanH34 »

:eng: (Changing 'to sell' to 'to eat').
The food that we were going to eat cannot be eaten because our cook is gone.

:con: Zidhgebzhail
nent h[eb]ef zvilk gEntanotsh-hyn [by] har-Entanoips hong nentoz-zvaek upjom lIn-hyn.
nent-Ø h[eb]ef z-v-il-k g-Enta-n-o-tsh-hyn [b-y] Ø-Enta-n-oi-ps h-ong nent-oz-Ø-z-v-ae-k up-jom Ø-l-I-n-hyn.
food-ABS.SG.M.TOP SWITCH-REFERENT_[ABS.INAN]>ACC 3-1-ERG-PL.M PST-eat-SIMPLE-REALIS-INTENT-FOC [3.INAN-ABS.SG.M] PASSIVE-PRS-eat-SIMPLE-NEG_REALIS-ABILITY REL-CAUSATIVE food-man-ABS.SG.M-3-1-GEN-PL.M.TOP here-ABLATIVE.SG.M PRS-PRFT-go-SIMPLE-FOC
Food that we were going to eat, [it] cannot be eaten as a result of our cook-man has gone from here.

Elements in [square brackets] would only be required in the most formal usages.

Edit: Correcting errors caused by mental timeslips.
Last edited by DanH34 on 02 Mar 2013 10:28, edited 1 time in total.
Life's a bitch, then you die.

Zidhgebzhail Orthography
ol bofosh
greek
greek
Posts: 801
Joined: 27 Aug 2012 14:59
Location: tʰæ.ɹʷˠə.ˈgɜʉ̯.nɜ kʰæ.tə.ˈlɜʉ̯.nʲɜ spɛ̝ɪ̯n ˈjʏː.ɹəʔp

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by ol bofosh »

That is a good one. For a moment I thought Alahithian wouldn't do it, but...

Gelakurt fothel pa mamaj tha um tetoy erina gelakur pa nep shum zhutef fiyto.
/ge.ˈɭa.ˈkuɾt ˈfo.ʈeɭ pa ˈma.maɖʐ ʈa um ˈte.toj e.ˈɾi.ɳa ge.ˈla.kuɾ pa ɳep ʂum ˈʐu.tef ˈfij.to/
gelakur-t foth;el pa mama;j tha um tetoy erina gelakur pa nep shum zhutef fiy-t-o
sell-PRS-NEG ably;NEG DEF food;PL PASS 1PL.INC to.intend previously to.sell CONJ cause 1PL.POSS cook leave-PST-PRF
(lit. food (that) we intend previously to sell cannot be sold because our cook has left)

That's a double passive. The subject mamaj coming after the verb makes it a passive "The food can't be sold". Mamaj is followed by a relative clause marked with tha, which makes it passive.

Compare:
Mamaj um gelakur = food that sells us
Mamaj tha um gelakur = food that we sell

Tense marking is not allowed in relative clauses.
User avatar
atman
sinic
sinic
Posts: 408
Joined: 05 Dec 2012 17:04

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by atman »

Atlantika

Alfitos osin epasfolhezme folhestin dedine, gar mes magiros yapobense.
/'alfitos 'ɔsin ˌepasfo'ʎezme fo'ʎestin de'dine gar mes 'magiros japo'bɛnse/
food that-ACC PAST-PROSPECTIVE-sell-1PL sell-INF-ACC not-can-3SG, because our cook PAST-away-go-3SG
The food that we were going to sell can't be sold because our cook is gone.
Երկնէր երկին, երկնէր երկիր, երկնէր և ծովն ծիրանի.
User avatar
Xing
MVP
MVP
Posts: 4194
Joined: 22 Aug 2010 18:46

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by Xing »

|maː puːlu poːa miːe tewa teːpe miːe e paːŋi taː mia paː muːŋu|
/ma puːlu poːa miːe tewa teːpe miːe e paːŋi ta miapaːmuːŋu/
[mʲa ˈpuː.lu ˈpo̞ː.a ˈmʲiː.e̞ ˌtʲewa ˌtʲe.pʲeˈmʲiː.e̞ː ˈpʲaː.ŋɨ tʲa ˌmʲi.aˌpʲaːˈmuːŋ]

Ma pulu poa mie tewa telemie, e pangi ta miapamungu mai.
so can.NEG sell food PURP sale, PRS away SG cook 1p
"So the food for sale can't be sold, our cook being away"
User avatar
Lao Kou
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 5089
Joined: 25 Nov 2012 10:39
Location: 蘇州/苏州

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by Lao Kou »

Image Géarthnuns

Vaçte cha ömstens makhmalan lö menkadiz sho, va glomaps la, chanat makhlama lé nzhí shath sho, bat shath hekalokh.
['vaɕtɛ tʃa 'ømstɛ̃s max'malan 'lø mɛn'kadɪz 'ʃo, va 'glomaps 'la, 'tʃanat max'lama 'le n'ʒi 'ʃaθ ʃo, bat 'ʃaθ hɛ'kalox]
because DEF cook-NOM our-NOM AUX.PERF go.away PTCL, DEF food-NOM.NEG AUX.PRES, REL-ACC 1PL-NOM AUX.PAST ADV sell PTCL, PTCL.PASS sell can-CONCL
The food that we were going to sell can't be sold because our cook is gone.
Last edited by Lao Kou on 20 Mar 2016 16:01, edited 3 times in total.
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名
Khemehekis
runic
runic
Posts: 2458
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by Khemehekis »

Kankonian:

Seshui azid wir tzemauosen os wahazas tzemauiz daz seshit ad wir as mose.
food that_(obj.) 1pl sell-FUT-PST NEG be_able_to-PRS sell-PAS because chef to 1pl PRS away
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
User avatar
H.Á.
cuneiform
cuneiform
Posts: 108
Joined: 11 Nov 2012 00:08
Location: ˈsɔɪ̯t͡s.bʊɐ̯g̥

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by H.Á. »

:con: Næniusk

Vøgoménit noidak éstata súdi énaeltu ak súdiučuv ésti vøgoniu.
[ʋœ̀.jʊ.mɛæ̯.nít nʌ̀.ðɐk ɛ̀æ̯s.ta.tʰá sʊ̀u̯.d̠ʲ‿ɛæ̯.nǽl.tʏ ɑk sʊ̀u̯.ʑʏ.tʃ͡ʰʉʋ ɛ̀æ̯s.ti ʋœ̀.jʊ.n̠ʲú]
cook-(1.PL.POSS)-ABS be_away-SG-3 REL-CAUS sell.INF NEG-can.INF PART sell-FUT.1.PL-PROG REL-ACC food-ACC
vøgomén-it-0 noid-0-k ésta-ta súdi é-æltu ak súdi-uč-uv ésta-i vøgoni-u

= The food that we were going to sell can't be sold because our cook is gone.
hmeniajúsoin ázujum
onomatopoesia-INSTR potato

[laɪ̯f ɪz ɒːl̴ əˈbɐʊ̯t faɪ̯ndɪŋ pʰiːpl̩ wɪð ðə sɛɪ̯m ˈmɛn.təl dɪsˈɔː.də æz juː]
User avatar
Omzinesý
runic
runic
Posts: 2864
Joined: 27 Aug 2010 08:17
Location: nowhere [naʊhɪɚ]

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by Omzinesý »

The food that we were going to sell can't be sold because our cook is gone.

Pílterékja kàrta, gapùj káhtu teréhku kèn, thùhurù géhšymèrni.
pi-´-l-terek-ja kàrta ga-pùj ø-kaht-u tere<h>k<u> kèn t<h>ur-hu-` ge-h-ševmerni
PERFV-FUT-NEC-sell-NEG.EGOPH food.ABS GEN-NMLZ.ABS EVID-plan-POSIT.EGOPH we <CAUS>leave-ACTNOM-FOC GEN-CAUS-cook
Lit: (one) will not be able to sell the food, whose selling we are planning, because of cook's leaving.
User avatar
MrKrov
banned
Posts: 1929
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 02:47
Location: /ai/ > /a:/
Contact:

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by MrKrov »

:con: Pakbum:
ŋam som tʰol zuj jap ŋam re zuj xaws bos-pik ŋam ɣel
1 NEG can sell food 1 want sell because cook 1 go
The food that we were going to sell can't be sold because our cook is gone.
User avatar
Jackk
roman
roman
Posts: 1310
Joined: 04 Aug 2012 13:08
Location: Damborn, Istr Boral

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by Jackk »

:con: Chudihr

aŗeim ienfal tenuchal da pigute eno meaŗmisuŗ kúa fenucheis.
/aɻeim ienɸal tenuxal da pigute eno meaɻmiθuɻ kʷa ɸenuxeiθ/
[aʐɛjm jɛ̃ːɸaɫ ts͡enuɣaɫ də piɣutə ɛnɔ mjɑɻmiθuə kʷa βənuɣɛjθ]
aŗ<e-i>m i-e.nf-al ten-uch-al da p<i>g-ut-e eno me-aŗm-isuŗ kúa fen-uch-eis
food<DEF-ACC> SUBD-pl.want-1s.PERF hold-INV-INF NEG buy<pl>-ABIL-3p.IMP because.of make-food-PROF 1s.GEN come-INV-3s.PERF
The food that we were going to sell can't be sold because our cook is gone.
terram impūram incolāmus
hamteu n'un mont sug
let us live in a dirty world
User avatar
Visinoid
roman
roman
Posts: 910
Joined: 04 Aug 2011 05:13
Location: Sparta

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by Visinoid »

:fra:
La nourriture que nous allions vendre (ne) peut pas être vendue parce que/puisque notre cuisinier est parti.
[la nu.ʁi.ty:ʁ kə nu a.ljɔ̃ vɑ̃:dʁ nə pø pa ɛ:tχ vɑ̃:.dy paʁ.sə kə nɔtχ kɥi.zi.nje ɛ paʁ.ti]
the.FEM food that we go.PAST.IMPER sold.INF (NEG1) can.PRES NEG2 be.INF sold.PAST.PART.FEM because our cook be.PRES go.PAST.PART
:qbc:
La bouffe qu'on allait vend' peut pas êt' vendue parce que not' cuisinier est parti.
[la bʊf kɔ̃ a.lɛ vɑ̃͡ʊ̃n pø pɑ a͡ɛt vɑ̃͡ʊ̃.dzy pas.kə nɑt kɥi.zi.nje e paχ.tsi]
User avatar
prettydragoon
sinic
sinic
Posts: 251
Joined: 29 Jan 2012 10:22

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by prettydragoon »

:con: Rireinutire

:eng: The food that we were going to sell can't be sold because our cook is gone.
me kakimu añamu rohata nakikisiva· rohata hopokasevo· siñi meno añeya marapa yakave:
me kaki.mu aña.mu roha.ta na.ki.kisi.va roha.ta hopo.ka.se.vo siñi me.no añeya mara.pa ya.ka.ve
1P.NOM which.ACC food.ACC sell.INF intend.PST.SBJV.SENS sell.INF can.PRS.NEG.INFER because 1P.GEN cook.NOM away.ESS be.PRS.HSY
We cannot sell the food that we were going to sell because our cook is away.

I'm pleased I was able to use all three evidentials in this sentence:
SENS - the speaker has direct knowledge they were going to sell this food
INFER - she figures the food can't now be sold
HSY - the cook is gone, but the speaker didn't see or hear her leave
Image
♀♥♀
I too have a minicity.
User avatar
Lambuzhao
korean
korean
Posts: 5339
Joined: 13 May 2012 02:57

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by Lambuzhao »

:con: Iveriki -
Image

[hi t̪r̪o̞.fi: po̞:.liz̪.me̞͂.ni hyps hĩ:my an d̪y͂.nu:.t̪a]
[po̞:.lɛ̞jz̪.θɛ̞j gɐɾ hy ma.gwæ:j hĩ:my e̞.βaj.sɛ̞ɾ ]

DEF.F.NOM.SG nourishment-NOM.SG sell-FUT.PASS.PTCP.F.NOM.SG PRP 1PL.GEN NEG can-PRS.3SG sell-PRS.PASS.INF CNJ DEF.M.NOM.SG cook-NOM.SG 1PL.GEN <AOR>go<AOR>3SG

**NB - I will probably change this. The phrase about the chef smacks of a Genitive Absolute.
User avatar
Lambuzhao
korean
korean
Posts: 5339
Joined: 13 May 2012 02:57

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by Lambuzhao »

:con: Rozwi -

Zurveslivu ieneu œxyutošu, nu boyine done~qetl tōθ za θowo seliruzaine wa qutlēne.
[zuɾ.βes.ɫi.vʊ jẽ.nɛʊ ʊɐqʃ.ʝu.tɔ.ʃʊ| nu: bɔ.jĩ.ne dɔ̃.nɛ.qe.tɫ to:θ zɒ θɔ.wo se.li.ru:.zɒj.ne wɒ qu.tɬɛ̃:.ne]
cook<NMLZ>LOC.SG depart-PST.PTCP.LOC.SG NEG can-PRS.1PL INF=sell DEF.ACC.SG food-ACC.SG REL.INAN.ACC.SG sell-IMPFT.1PL CNJ sell<SBJV>NONPRS.1PL
With our chef gone, we cannot sell the food that we wanted to sell.

Zurveslivoa ieneu œxyutošoa, nu boyine done~qetl tōθ za θowo seliruzaine wa qutlēne.
[zuɾ.βes.ɫi.vʊɐ jẽ.nɛʊ ʊɐqʃ.ʝu.tɔ.ʃʊɐ| nu: bɔ.jĩ.ne dɔ̃.nɛ.qe.tɫ to:θ zɒ θɔ.wo se.li.ru:.zɒj.ne wɒ qu.tɬɛ̃:.ne]
cook<NMLZ>ABL.SG depart-PST.PTCP.ABL.SG NEG can-PRS.1PL INF=sell DEF.ACC.SG food-ACC.SG REL.INAN.ACC.SG sell-IMPFT.1PL CNJ sell<SBJV>NONPRS.1PL
With our chef gone, we cannot sell the food that we wanted to sell.



Zurvesliv ieneu œxyutos nu bæk done~qetl tōθ za θowo seliruzaine wa qutlēne.
[zuɾ.βes.ɫiv jẽ.nɛʊ ʊɐqʃ.ʝu.tɔs| nu: bæk dɔ̃.nɛ.qe.tɫ to:θ zɒ θɔ.wo se.li.ru:.zɒj.ne wɒ qu.tɬɛ̃:.ne]
Our chef, who left, cannot sell the food that we wanted to sell.


Some observations about this interesting challenge:

1) This just does not sound right in Rozwi. Having “food” be the subject\topic of the main clause this way, with people dancing all around it. It sounds too much like the food is (unable to be) selling itself. A speaker of Rozwi would say: “Someone (the cook, us) should be doing the selling!” It’s not impossible to say it Rozwi, and I did originally translate it with passive infinitives, impersonal subject, etc. It just doesn’t “feel” right. I imagine that Rozwi is more of an agent-driven language.

2) I have no preference (yet) in using a Locative Absolute or an Ablative Absolutein Rozwi. Both exist wild and free, in their constructed habitat.
User avatar
atman
sinic
sinic
Posts: 408
Joined: 05 Dec 2012 17:04

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by atman »

Lambuzhao wrote:2) I have no preference (yet) in using a Locative Absolute or an Ablative Absolutein Rozwi. Both exist wild and free, in their constructed habitat.
You could use both! Or maybe a few more, like Atlantika does: I use (when I remember that such constructions exist) the locative absolute for temporal clauses, the causal absolute for causal clauses, the instrumental absolute for conditional clauses and so on.
Երկնէր երկին, երկնէր երկիր, երկնէր և ծովն ծիրանի.
zyx3166
hieroglyphic
hieroglyphic
Posts: 60
Joined: 10 Jul 2013 12:27

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by zyx3166 »

Roguel:
The food that we were going to sell can't be sold because our cook is gone.
Nifixkiramnake jentec nifpetdisekimat paskepkorut cataceknedra.
sell-begin.to-PROG-1PL-ATTR food sell-PASS-POT-3SG-NEG cook-AGENT-1PL.GEN go-PFV-3SG-because
User avatar
Sangfroidish
greek
greek
Posts: 837
Joined: 29 Mar 2013 17:59
Location: Oxfordshire, UK

Re: The food that we were going to sell

Post by Sangfroidish »

Ei pánisso, das svu te samecer, samecethä thé, thrine ioge ai quinent.
[ɛj ˈpɑn.ɪsːɒ ðɑs sʋu tɛ ˈsɑm.ɜg.ɜr ˈsɑm.ɜg.ɜθ.æ θɛː ˈθr̥in.ɜ ˈjɔɣ.ɜ ɑj ˈcwin.ɜn̥t]
ART.DEF.IN food-ACC that 1.PL.INCL 3.SG.IN.ACC sell-COND sell-POT-NEG null.argument reason-ABL leave ART.DEF.AN cook-AGT
The food that we would be going to sell* cannot be sold, because the cook left.

*I'm aware this is nowhere near grammatical in English, but I can't think how to translate it back in a way that makes sense in English and retains the meaning of the original Vorýntel. :v
Post Reply