Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...
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Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...
So friends and I were having a discussion about a dream. My friend dreamed that their very toothy character was a dentist. In response, I wrote:
"If you have enough teeth, they make you a dentist by default."
I realized that there was some ambiguity between whether the teeth themselves made one a dentist, or if some unspecified, dentist-making group of people made you a dentist once you had enough teeth. And it's an odd sentence so why not use it for a translation challenge?
Please translate both:
1) "If you have enough teeth, they [the teeth] make you a dentist by default."
2) "If you have enough teeth, they [unspecified group] make you a dentist by default."
If you have a way to keep the ambiguity as well, that would be great too!
"If you have enough teeth, they make you a dentist by default."
I realized that there was some ambiguity between whether the teeth themselves made one a dentist, or if some unspecified, dentist-making group of people made you a dentist once you had enough teeth. And it's an odd sentence so why not use it for a translation challenge?
Please translate both:
1) "If you have enough teeth, they [the teeth] make you a dentist by default."
2) "If you have enough teeth, they [unspecified group] make you a dentist by default."
If you have a way to keep the ambiguity as well, that would be great too!
Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...
griuskant (conversation without conscript)
oc es reca shuvi kaeng, zher raeses hurgi tisa es daega kaengstoene.
/'ɔtʃ 'əs 'rətʃa 'ʃuvi 'keŋ, 'ʒər 'resəs 'hurgi 'tisa 'əs 'dega 'keŋstɯnə/
if 4SG have-V enough-A teeth, then 3PL default-A cause-V 4SG become-V teeth.doctor-N
oc es reca shuvi kaeng, zher es hurgi aendaegan zhas kaengstoene.
/'ɔtʃ 'əs 'rətʃa 'ʃuvi 'keŋ, 'ʒər 'əs 'hurgi 'endegan ʒas 'keŋstɯnə/
if 4SG have-V enough-A teeth, then 4SG default-A TR-become-V-PASS T0 teeth.doctor-N
oc es reca shuvi kaeng, zher raeses hurgi tisa es daega kaengstoene.
/'ɔtʃ 'əs 'rətʃa 'ʃuvi 'keŋ, 'ʒər 'resəs 'hurgi 'tisa 'əs 'dega 'keŋstɯnə/
if 4SG have-V enough-A teeth, then 3PL default-A cause-V 4SG become-V teeth.doctor-N
oc es reca shuvi kaeng, zher es hurgi aendaegan zhas kaengstoene.
/'ɔtʃ 'əs 'rətʃa 'ʃuvi 'keŋ, 'ʒər 'əs 'hurgi 'endegan ʒas 'keŋstɯnə/
if 4SG have-V enough-A teeth, then 4SG default-A TR-become-V-PASS T0 teeth.doctor-N
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Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...
Silvish can't maintain the ambiguity with this pair of sentences. For general expressions, it has the indefinite pronoun on, which I've used in the second sentence. The masculine third-person plural pronoun can be used as an indefinite, which introduces ambiguity if there is also a masculine plural noun it could refer to. That doesn't happen with these sentences because dan "tooth" is feminine.
S' que t' êya preu de dan, ella ffan de toû in dantistou par defâ.
[ske.tɛː.jəˈpʁø dəˈdɑ̃ŋ | ʔɛl.lɑˈfɑ̃ŋ dəˈtuː ʔɛ̃n.dɑ̃ˈti.stu pɑʁ.dəˈfɑː]
if SBRD 2S have-SBJV enough of tooth | 3.F-PL make.3P of 2S.DISJ INDEF dentist by default
If you have enough teeth, they [the teeth] make you a dentist by default.
S' que t' êya preu de dan, on fyé de toû in dantistou par defâ.
[ske.tɛː.jəˈpʁø dəˈdɑ̃ŋ | ʔɔ̃ˈfje dəˈtuː ʔɛ̃n.dɑ̃ˈti.stu pɑʁ.dəˈfɑː]
if SBRD 2S have-SBJV enough of tooth | INDEF_PRO make.3S of 2S.DISJ INDEF dentist by default
If you have enough teeth, they [unspecified group] make you a dentist by default.
S' que t' êya preu de dan, ella ffan de toû in dantistou par defâ.
[ske.tɛː.jəˈpʁø dəˈdɑ̃ŋ | ʔɛl.lɑˈfɑ̃ŋ dəˈtuː ʔɛ̃n.dɑ̃ˈti.stu pɑʁ.dəˈfɑː]
if SBRD 2S have-SBJV enough of tooth | 3.F-PL make.3P of 2S.DISJ INDEF dentist by default
If you have enough teeth, they [the teeth] make you a dentist by default.
S' que t' êya preu de dan, on fyé de toû in dantistou par defâ.
[ske.tɛː.jəˈpʁø dəˈdɑ̃ŋ | ʔɔ̃ˈfje dəˈtuː ʔɛ̃n.dɑ̃ˈti.stu pɑʁ.dəˈfɑː]
if SBRD 2S have-SBJV enough of tooth | INDEF_PRO make.3S of 2S.DISJ INDEF dentist by default
If you have enough teeth, they [unspecified group] make you a dentist by default.
Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...
Weddisch does have an indefinite personal pronoun "man" but its use is both strongly associated with German and also with older speakers. "Dey can be used for either sentence, which maintains the ambiguity of the original English. In these two the only significant change is the pronoun, since plural verbs and the third person singular are conjugated identically.
1. If du hast enow tiet, dey standard du aan tóetdokter mekes.
2. If du hast enow tiet, man standard du aan tóetdokter mekes.
1. If du hast enow tiet, dey standard du aan tóetdokter mekes.
2. If du hast enow tiet, man standard du aan tóetdokter mekes.
Last edited by spanick on 20 Apr 2019 05:11, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...
Géarthnuns
Öçek la sük nöiksüch frinalöküch hauwéböth sho, rhük la öçket höi sau nöikütezemars ban vanöi hetsugöf.
2SG-NOM AUX.PRES INDEF.PL tooth-ACC.PL enough-ACC.PL have-SPEC PTCL, 3PL-NOM AUX.PRES 2SG-ACC PTCL INDEF dentist-NOM PTCL.CAUS become tacitly.assent-CONCL
If you have enough teeth, they [the teeth] make you a dentist by default.
Öçek la sük nöiksüch frinalöküch hauwéböth sho, seth lav öçket höi sau nöikütezemars ban vanöi hetsugöf.
2SG-NOM AUX.PRES INDEF.PL tooth-ACC.PL enough-ACC.PL have-SPEC PTCL, 3SG-NOM AUX.PRES.IMPERS 2SG-ACC PTCL INDEF dentist-NOM PTCL.CAUS become tacitly.assent-CONCL
If you have enough teeth, they [unspecified group] make you a dentist by default.
For the second Géarthnuns sentence, "seth", the seventh declension third person singular pronoun, plus the auxiliary in the impersonal voice, covers the use of "man/men/on". If you change the auxiliary to the transcendent tense, it would add a gnomic vibe, which felt a little heavy-handed here.
Öçek la sük nöiksüch frinalöküch hauwéböth sho, rhük la öçket höi sau nöikütezemars ban vanöi hetsugöf.
2SG-NOM AUX.PRES INDEF.PL tooth-ACC.PL enough-ACC.PL have-SPEC PTCL, 3PL-NOM AUX.PRES 2SG-ACC PTCL INDEF dentist-NOM PTCL.CAUS become tacitly.assent-CONCL
If you have enough teeth, they [the teeth] make you a dentist by default.
Öçek la sük nöiksüch frinalöküch hauwéböth sho, seth lav öçket höi sau nöikütezemars ban vanöi hetsugöf.
2SG-NOM AUX.PRES INDEF.PL tooth-ACC.PL enough-ACC.PL have-SPEC PTCL, 3SG-NOM AUX.PRES.IMPERS 2SG-ACC PTCL INDEF dentist-NOM PTCL.CAUS become tacitly.assent-CONCL
If you have enough teeth, they [unspecified group] make you a dentist by default.
Since the ambiguity is a fluke of English, I'm not sure why one would want to "keep" it or "get rid of" it.If you have a way to keep the ambiguity as well, that would be great too!
For the second Géarthnuns sentence, "seth", the seventh declension third person singular pronoun, plus the auxiliary in the impersonal voice, covers the use of "man/men/on". If you change the auxiliary to the transcendent tense, it would add a gnomic vibe, which felt a little heavy-handed here.
☯ 道可道,非常道
☯ 名可名,非常名
☯ 名可名,非常名
Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...
Yélian
In Yélian, these sentences are unambiguous for two reasons.
1) Grammatical structure: In the first sentence, the referential subject plural pronoun den is used, which is always the object of the sentence before. In the second sentence, as Yélian is normally very rigid in keeping the original subject (if possible), the verb is put to the inverse voice.
2) Verb: Both sentences require different verbal constructions, there is no equivalent to the English "to make".
Vigo mubei o'restan, den sat pavibernasmasti pi tyabocei restiyvor.
[ˈviːxɔ̈ mʉˈbɛɪ̯ ɔ̈ˈɾestɐn, den sɐ‿ˌpaːʋɨˌbeɾnɐsˈmasti pi t͡ʃɐˈboːkɛɪ̯ ɾəsˈta̯iːʋɔ̈d̟]
if enough-have.2SG DEF.GEN=tooth-PL, 3SG.REF 2SG.OBL automatic-enable-3PL that POT-become-2SG dentist
If you have enough teeth, they automatically enable you to become a dentist.
Vigo mubei o'restan, cenʻit iandefasu restiyvor pavibernas.
[ˈviːxɔ̈ mʉˈbɛɪ̯ ɔ̈ˈɾestɐn, ˈkenʔɨt ɪ̯ɐnˈdeːɸʉ ɾəsˈta̯iːʋɔ̈d̟ ˌpaːʋɨˈbeɾnɐʃ]
if enough-have.2SG DEF.GEN=teeth, 3PL.OBL NEC-assign-JUS.INV.2SG dentist automatically
If you have enough teeth, they automatically (have to) assign you a dentist job.
In Yélian, these sentences are unambiguous for two reasons.
1) Grammatical structure: In the first sentence, the referential subject plural pronoun den is used, which is always the object of the sentence before. In the second sentence, as Yélian is normally very rigid in keeping the original subject (if possible), the verb is put to the inverse voice.
2) Verb: Both sentences require different verbal constructions, there is no equivalent to the English "to make".
Vigo mubei o'restan, den sat pavibernasmasti pi tyabocei restiyvor.
[ˈviːxɔ̈ mʉˈbɛɪ̯ ɔ̈ˈɾestɐn, den sɐ‿ˌpaːʋɨˌbeɾnɐsˈmasti pi t͡ʃɐˈboːkɛɪ̯ ɾəsˈta̯iːʋɔ̈d̟]
if enough-have.2SG DEF.GEN=tooth-PL, 3SG.REF 2SG.OBL automatic-enable-3PL that POT-become-2SG dentist
If you have enough teeth, they automatically enable you to become a dentist.
Vigo mubei o'restan, cenʻit iandefasu restiyvor pavibernas.
[ˈviːxɔ̈ mʉˈbɛɪ̯ ɔ̈ˈɾestɐn, ˈkenʔɨt ɪ̯ɐnˈdeːɸʉ ɾəsˈta̯iːʋɔ̈d̟ ˌpaːʋɨˈbeɾnɐʃ]
if enough-have.2SG DEF.GEN=teeth, 3PL.OBL NEC-assign-JUS.INV.2SG dentist automatically
If you have enough teeth, they automatically (have to) assign you a dentist job.
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...
liaQJñõia
(man with a lot of teeth and taking care of a lot of teeth)
(man with a lot of teeth and taking care of a lot of teeth)
Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...
Cassiterian
Si t'avas mulas dianas, las ta fazan un dantis d'astanir.
Si t'avas mulas dianas, t'i fai un dantis d'astanir.
if 2SG=have-PRS.2SG many-PL teeth-PL, 3PL 2SG.ACC make-PRS.2SG INDEF dentist GEN default
if 2SG have-PRS.2SG many-PL teeth-PL, 2SG=be.2SG make-PASS INDEF dentist GEN default
Si t'avas mulas dianas, las ta fazan un dantis d'astanir.
Si t'avas mulas dianas, t'i fai un dantis d'astanir.
if 2SG=have-PRS.2SG many-PL teeth-PL, 3PL 2SG.ACC make-PRS.2SG INDEF dentist GEN default
if 2SG have-PRS.2SG many-PL teeth-PL, 2SG=be.2SG make-PASS INDEF dentist GEN default
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Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...
Biskainish
In Biskainish, it's entirely possible to leave the sentence ambiguous, but I decided to do both translations anyways:
Efyoḥyavin naf fọḥtuts, datuts dẹḥdwinyu yaz dyẹntas endanọrma.
/efjoɦjavin naf fɔɦtuts datuts dɛɦdwinju jaz djɛntas endanɔrma/
COND-have.2SG.PRES.PROG enough OBL-INDEF-tooth-PL, DEF-NOM-tooth-PL do.3PL.PRES.PROG-2SG.OBL as NOM-INDEF-dentist LOC-DEF-norm
Efyoḥyavin naf fọḥtuts, dei dẹḥdwinyu yaz dyẹntas endanọrma.
/efjoɦjavin naf fɔɦtuts deɪ dɛɦdwinju jaz djɛntas endanɔrma/
COND-have.2SG.PRES.PROG enough OBL-INDEF-tooth-PL, 3SG.ANIM.NOM do.3PL.PRES.PROG-2SG.OBL as NOM-INDEF-dentist LOC-DEF-norm
And here's the ambiguous version:
Efyoḥyavin naf fọḥtuts, dẹḥdwinyu yaz dyẹntas endanọrma.
/efjoɦjavin naf fɔɦtuts dɛɦdwinju jaz djɛntas endanɔrma/
COND-have.2SG.PRES.PROG enough OBL-INDEF-tooth-PL, do.3PL.PRES.PROG-2SG.OBL as NOM-INDEF-dentist LOC-DEF-norm
In Biskainish, it's entirely possible to leave the sentence ambiguous, but I decided to do both translations anyways:
Efyoḥyavin naf fọḥtuts, datuts dẹḥdwinyu yaz dyẹntas endanọrma.
/efjoɦjavin naf fɔɦtuts datuts dɛɦdwinju jaz djɛntas endanɔrma/
COND-have.2SG.PRES.PROG enough OBL-INDEF-tooth-PL, DEF-NOM-tooth-PL do.3PL.PRES.PROG-2SG.OBL as NOM-INDEF-dentist LOC-DEF-norm
Efyoḥyavin naf fọḥtuts, dei dẹḥdwinyu yaz dyẹntas endanọrma.
/efjoɦjavin naf fɔɦtuts deɪ dɛɦdwinju jaz djɛntas endanɔrma/
COND-have.2SG.PRES.PROG enough OBL-INDEF-tooth-PL, 3SG.ANIM.NOM do.3PL.PRES.PROG-2SG.OBL as NOM-INDEF-dentist LOC-DEF-norm
And here's the ambiguous version:
Efyoḥyavin naf fọḥtuts, dẹḥdwinyu yaz dyẹntas endanọrma.
/efjoɦjavin naf fɔɦtuts dɛɦdwinju jaz djɛntas endanɔrma/
COND-have.2SG.PRES.PROG enough OBL-INDEF-tooth-PL, do.3PL.PRES.PROG-2SG.OBL as NOM-INDEF-dentist LOC-DEF-norm
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Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...
Rireinutire
moyi piina kaku ukavo· sakupe yataropa piimomayamu teñekavo:
/ˈmoji ˈpiːnɑ ˈkɑku ˈukɑvo | ˈsɑkupe ˈjɑtɑɹopɑ ˈpiːmomɑjɑmu ˈteŋekɑvo/
moyi pii-na kaku u-ka-vo | saku-pe yataro-pa piimomaya-mu teñe-ka-vo ||
enough tooth-PTV who.REL.NOM have-PRS-INFR | that.R-EXESS assumption-ESS dentist-ACC make-PRS-INFR ||
"Who has enough teeth, she is made a dentist by default."
Ambiguity is preserved in the Rireinutire translation. To specify who or what will make you a dentist, you need to add a reference to them in the second clause, thus:
· sakupe siki yataropa piimomayamu teñekavo:
| that.R-EXESS this.NOM assumption-ESS dentist-ACC make-PRS-INFR ||
"... she is made a dentist by default by them [the teeth]."
· sakupe he yataropa piimomayamu teñekavo:
| that.R-EXESS 3P.R.NOM assumption-ESS dentist-ACC make-PRS-INFR ||
"... she is made a dentist by default by them [group of people]."
Translation challenge 43/100
moyi piina kaku ukavo· sakupe yataropa piimomayamu teñekavo:
/ˈmoji ˈpiːnɑ ˈkɑku ˈukɑvo | ˈsɑkupe ˈjɑtɑɹopɑ ˈpiːmomɑjɑmu ˈteŋekɑvo/
moyi pii-na kaku u-ka-vo | saku-pe yataro-pa piimomaya-mu teñe-ka-vo ||
enough tooth-PTV who.REL.NOM have-PRS-INFR | that.R-EXESS assumption-ESS dentist-ACC make-PRS-INFR ||
"Who has enough teeth, she is made a dentist by default."
Ambiguity is preserved in the Rireinutire translation. To specify who or what will make you a dentist, you need to add a reference to them in the second clause, thus:
· sakupe siki yataropa piimomayamu teñekavo:
| that.R-EXESS this.NOM assumption-ESS dentist-ACC make-PRS-INFR ||
"... she is made a dentist by default by them [the teeth]."
· sakupe he yataropa piimomayamu teñekavo:
| that.R-EXESS 3P.R.NOM assumption-ESS dentist-ACC make-PRS-INFR ||
"... she is made a dentist by default by them [group of people]."
Translation challenge 43/100