Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

A forum for translations, translation challenges etc. Good place to increase your conlang's vocabulary.
Post Reply
User avatar
LinguistCat
sinic
sinic
Posts: 325
Joined: 06 May 2017 07:48

Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

Post by LinguistCat »

So friends and I were having a discussion about a dream. My friend dreamed that their very toothy character was a dentist. In response, I wrote:

"If you have enough teeth, they make you a dentist by default."

I realized that there was some ambiguity between whether the teeth themselves made one a dentist, or if some unspecified, dentist-making group of people made you a dentist once you had enough teeth. And it's an odd sentence so why not use it for a translation challenge?

Please translate both:
1) "If you have enough teeth, they [the teeth] make you a dentist by default."
2) "If you have enough teeth, they [unspecified group] make you a dentist by default."

If you have a way to keep the ambiguity as well, that would be great too!
User avatar
Reyzadren
greek
greek
Posts: 684
Joined: 14 May 2017 10:39
Contact:

Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

Post by Reyzadren »

:con: griuskant (conversation without conscript)

oc es reca shuvi kaeng, zher raeses hurgi tisa es daega kaengstoene.
/'ɔtʃ 'əs 'rətʃa 'ʃuvi 'keŋ, 'ʒər 'resəs 'hurgi 'tisa 'əs 'dega 'keŋstɯnə/
if 4SG have-V enough-A teeth, then 3PL default-A cause-V 4SG become-V teeth.doctor-N

oc es reca shuvi kaeng, zher es hurgi aendaegan zhas kaengstoene.
/'ɔtʃ 'əs 'rətʃa 'ʃuvi 'keŋ, 'ʒər 'əs 'hurgi 'endegan ʒas 'keŋstɯnə/
if 4SG have-V enough-A teeth, then 4SG default-A TR-become-V-PASS T0 teeth.doctor-N
Image conlang summary | Image griushkoent thread
User avatar
Dormouse559
moderator
moderator
Posts: 2945
Joined: 10 Nov 2012 20:52
Location: California

Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

Post by Dormouse559 »

:con: Silvish can't maintain the ambiguity with this pair of sentences. For general expressions, it has the indefinite pronoun on, which I've used in the second sentence. The masculine third-person plural pronoun can be used as an indefinite, which introduces ambiguity if there is also a masculine plural noun it could refer to. That doesn't happen with these sentences because dan "tooth" is feminine.

S' que t' êya preu de dan, ella ffan de toû in dantistou par defâ.
[ske.tɛː.jəˈpʁø dəˈdɑ̃ŋ | ʔɛl.lɑˈfɑ̃ŋ dəˈtuː ʔɛ̃n.dɑ̃ˈti.stu pɑʁ.dəˈfɑː]
if SBRD 2S have-SBJV enough of tooth | 3.F-PL make.3P of 2S.DISJ INDEF dentist by default

If you have enough teeth, they [the teeth] make you a dentist by default.

S' que t' êya preu de dan, on fyé de toû in dantistou par defâ.
[ske.tɛː.jəˈpʁø dəˈdɑ̃ŋ | ʔɔ̃ˈfje dəˈtuː ʔɛ̃n.dɑ̃ˈti.stu pɑʁ.dəˈfɑː]
if SBRD 2S have-SBJV enough of tooth | INDEF_PRO make.3S of 2S.DISJ INDEF dentist by default

If you have enough teeth, they [unspecified group] make you a dentist by default.
User avatar
spanick
roman
roman
Posts: 1336
Joined: 11 May 2017 01:47
Location: California

Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

Post by spanick »

Weddisch does have an indefinite personal pronoun "man" but its use is both strongly associated with German and also with older speakers. "Dey can be used for either sentence, which maintains the ambiguity of the original English. In these two the only significant change is the pronoun, since plural verbs and the third person singular are conjugated identically.

1. If du hast enow tiet, dey standard du aan tóetdokter mekes.
2. If du hast enow tiet, man standard du aan tóetdokter mekes.
Last edited by spanick on 20 Apr 2019 05:11, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Lao Kou
mongolian
mongolian
Posts: 5089
Joined: 25 Nov 2012 10:39
Location: 蘇州/苏州

Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

Post by Lao Kou »

Image Géarthnuns

Öçek la sük nöiksüch frinalöküch hauwéböth sho, rhük la öçket höi sau nöikütezemars ban vanöi hetsugöf.
2SG-NOM AUX.PRES INDEF.PL tooth-ACC.PL enough-ACC.PL have-SPEC PTCL, 3PL-NOM AUX.PRES 2SG-ACC PTCL INDEF dentist-NOM PTCL.CAUS become tacitly.assent-CONCL
If you have enough teeth, they [the teeth] make you a dentist by default.

Öçek la sük nöiksüch frinalöküch hauwéböth sho, seth lav öçket höi sau nöikütezemars ban vanöi hetsugöf.
2SG-NOM AUX.PRES INDEF.PL tooth-ACC.PL enough-ACC.PL have-SPEC PTCL, 3SG-NOM AUX.PRES.IMPERS 2SG-ACC PTCL INDEF dentist-NOM PTCL.CAUS become tacitly.assent-CONCL
If you have enough teeth, they [unspecified group] make you a dentist by default.
If you have a way to keep the ambiguity as well, that would be great too!
Since the ambiguity is a fluke of English, I'm not sure why one would want to "keep" it or "get rid of" it.

For the second Géarthnuns sentence, "seth", the seventh declension third person singular pronoun, plus the auxiliary in the impersonal voice, covers the use of "man/men/on". If you change the auxiliary to the transcendent tense, it would add a gnomic vibe, which felt a little heavy-handed here.
道可道,非常道
名可名,非常名
Iyionaku
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2102
Joined: 25 May 2014 14:17

Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

Post by Iyionaku »

:con: Yélian

In Yélian, these sentences are unambiguous for two reasons.

1) Grammatical structure: In the first sentence, the referential subject plural pronoun den is used, which is always the object of the sentence before. In the second sentence, as Yélian is normally very rigid in keeping the original subject (if possible), the verb is put to the inverse voice.
2) Verb: Both sentences require different verbal constructions, there is no equivalent to the English "to make".

Vigo mubei o'restan, den sat pavibernasmasti pi tyabocei restiyvor.
[ˈviːxɔ̈ mʉˈbɛɪ̯ ɔ̈ˈɾestɐn, den sɐ‿ˌpaːʋɨˌbeɾnɐsˈmasti pi t͡ʃɐˈboːkɛɪ̯ ɾəsˈta̯iːʋɔ̈d̟]
if enough-have.2SG DEF.GEN=tooth-PL, 3SG.REF 2SG.OBL automatic-enable-3PL that POT-become-2SG dentist
If you have enough teeth, they automatically enable you to become a dentist.

Vigo mubei o'restan, cenʻit iandefasu restiyvor pavibernas.
[ˈviːxɔ̈ mʉˈbɛɪ̯ ɔ̈ˈɾestɐn, ˈkenʔɨt ɪ̯ɐnˈdeːɸʉ ɾəsˈta̯iːʋɔ̈d̟ ˌpaːʋɨˈbeɾnɐʃ]
if enough-have.2SG DEF.GEN=teeth, 3PL.OBL NEC-assign-JUS.INV.2SG dentist automatically
If you have enough teeth, they automatically (have to) assign you a dentist job.
Wipe the glass. This is the usual way to start, even in the days, day and night, only a happy one.
User avatar
lsd
greek
greek
Posts: 740
Joined: 11 Mar 2011 21:11
Contact:

Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

Post by lsd »

liaQJñõia
(man with a lot of teeth and taking care of a lot of teeth)
User avatar
Flavia
sinic
sinic
Posts: 361
Joined: 13 Apr 2021 14:53
Location: Sol III

Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

Post by Flavia »

:con: Cassiterian
Si t'avas mulas dianas, las ta fazan un dantis d'astanir.
Si t'avas mulas dianas, t'i fai un dantis d'astanir.

if 2SG=have-PRS.2SG many-PL teeth-PL, 3PL 2SG.ACC make-PRS.2SG INDEF dentist GEN default
if 2SG have-PRS.2SG many-PL teeth-PL, 2SG=be.2SG make-PASS INDEF dentist GEN default
XIPA
:pol: > :eng: > :esp: > :lat: > :fra: > :por: > :deu:
Abaniscen cancasirnemor
Esneirra973
sinic
sinic
Posts: 315
Joined: 12 Aug 2016 16:05

Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

Post by Esneirra973 »

:con: Biskainish

In Biskainish, it's entirely possible to leave the sentence ambiguous, but I decided to do both translations anyways:

Efyoḥyavin naf fọḥtuts, datuts dẹḥdwinyu yaz dyẹntas endanọrma.
/efjoɦjavin naf fɔɦtuts datuts dɛɦdwinju jaz djɛntas endanɔrma/
COND-have.2SG.PRES.PROG enough OBL-INDEF-tooth-PL, DEF-NOM-tooth-PL do.3PL.PRES.PROG-2SG.OBL as NOM-INDEF-dentist LOC-DEF-norm

Efyoḥyavin naf fọḥtuts, dei dẹḥdwinyu yaz dyẹntas endanọrma.
/efjoɦjavin naf fɔɦtuts deɪ dɛɦdwinju jaz djɛntas endanɔrma/
COND-have.2SG.PRES.PROG enough OBL-INDEF-tooth-PL, 3SG.ANIM.NOM do.3PL.PRES.PROG-2SG.OBL as NOM-INDEF-dentist LOC-DEF-norm

And here's the ambiguous version:

Efyoḥyavin naf fọḥtuts, dẹḥdwinyu yaz dyẹntas endanọrma.
/efjoɦjavin naf fɔɦtuts dɛɦdwinju jaz djɛntas endanɔrma/
COND-have.2SG.PRES.PROG enough OBL-INDEF-tooth-PL, do.3PL.PRES.PROG-2SG.OBL as NOM-INDEF-dentist LOC-DEF-norm
User avatar
prettydragoon
sinic
sinic
Posts: 442
Joined: 29 Jan 2012 10:22
Location: Third star on the left, straight on till tiffin
Contact:

Re: Translation challenge: If you have enough teeth...

Post by prettydragoon »

:con: Rireinutire

moyi piina kaku ukavo· sakupe yataropa piimomayamu teñekavo:
/ˈmoji ˈpiːnɑ ˈkɑku ˈukɑvo | ˈsɑkupe ˈjɑtɑɹopɑ ˈpiːmomɑjɑmu ˈteŋekɑvo/
moyi pii-na kaku u-ka-vo | saku-pe yataro-pa piimomaya-mu teñe-ka-vo ||
enough tooth-PTV who.REL.NOM have-PRS-INFR | that.R-EXESS assumption-ESS dentist-ACC make-PRS-INFR ||

"Who has enough teeth, she is made a dentist by default."

Ambiguity is preserved in the Rireinutire translation. To specify who or what will make you a dentist, you need to add a reference to them in the second clause, thus:

· sakupe siki yataropa piimomayamu teñekavo:
| that.R-EXESS this.NOM assumption-ESS dentist-ACC make-PRS-INFR ||
"... she is made a dentist by default by them [the teeth]."

· sakupe he yataropa piimomayamu teñekavo:
| that.R-EXESS 3P.R.NOM assumption-ESS dentist-ACC make-PRS-INFR ||
"... she is made a dentist by default by them [group of people]."

Translation challenge 43/100
Image
♀♥♀
What is this, how you say, Rireinutire?
Post Reply