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Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
- DesEsseintes
- mongolian
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- Joined: 31 Mar 2013 13:16
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/m n/ m n
/p b t d k g/ p b t d k g
/f v s z ʃ ʒ x h/ f v s z š ž x h
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ/ c j č ǰ
/l j w/ l y w
/r/ r
/i iː u uː e eː o oː a aː/ I ī u ū e ē o ō a ā
/p b t d k g/ p b t d k g
/f v s z ʃ ʒ x h/ f v s z š ž x h
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ/ c j č ǰ
/l j w/ l y w
/r/ r
/i iː u uː e eː o oː a aː/ I ī u ū e ē o ō a ā
- DesEsseintes
- mongolian
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- Joined: 31 Mar 2013 13:16
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Oniihek phonology: smol language I came up with because I can’t sleep
/n/ n
/t t͡ʃ k ʔ/ t c k ’
/s h/ s h
/r w/ r w
/a e i o/ a e i o
/ai/ ai
/a i o/ have long counterparts, written doubled
/ai/ is the long counterpart to /e/
/e/ is also the epenthetic vowel
CC clusters are common and largely unrestricted
’CC clusters are also permissible
→ nʔC rʔC wʔC clusters are formed when first C is a voiced continuant
Aesthetic:
on’weriirek
hwan’seriirek
o’htewer
aire’haat
iicrawek → iicrawkew
ckoorwak
/n/ n
/t t͡ʃ k ʔ/ t c k ’
/s h/ s h
/r w/ r w
/a e i o/ a e i o
/ai/ ai
/a i o/ have long counterparts, written doubled
/ai/ is the long counterpart to /e/
/e/ is also the epenthetic vowel
CC clusters are common and largely unrestricted
’CC clusters are also permissible
→ nʔC rʔC wʔC clusters are formed when first C is a voiced continuant
Aesthetic:
on’weriirek
hwan’seriirek
o’htewer
aire’haat
iicrawek → iicrawkew
ckoorwak
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ņ/ñ/ny~ni~n ŋ/ŋ/nh
/p b t d k g ʔ/ p b t d k g ʼ/h/q
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ x~h ɣ/ f v s z ç/š/sy~si~s ʒ/ž/zy~zi~z ķ/x/h ģ/ď/gh~dd~g
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ/ c/c/c ż/ź/dz ŧ/č/ty~ti~t đ/x/dy~di~d
/l ʎ~ɟ~ʝ j~ʝ~ʑ ɰ~w~ɣʷ/ l y/j/y~ll~i j/y/j~ź~y w/w/gu~gw~w~u
/ɾ r/ r ŗ/ŕ/rr~r
/ɮ/ ź/ŀ/zl
/i ɯ u ʊ e ɤ o ə ɛ ʌ ɔ æ a~ɑ~ɐ ɒ/ i ï/û/ú u ö/õ/ù e/é/é ü/ã/ò o/ó/ó è/â/è é/e/e ä/ŭ/à ó/o/o æ a ò/ă/á
/Vː/ Vh/V̄/VV
This is Birdish updated. The first letter is Modern Standard, second is Central, and third is Coastal.
/p b t d k g ʔ/ p b t d k g ʼ/h/q
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ x~h ɣ/ f v s z ç/š/sy~si~s ʒ/ž/zy~zi~z ķ/x/h ģ/ď/gh~dd~g
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ/ c/c/c ż/ź/dz ŧ/č/ty~ti~t đ/x/dy~di~d
/l ʎ~ɟ~ʝ j~ʝ~ʑ ɰ~w~ɣʷ/ l y/j/y~ll~i j/y/j~ź~y w/w/gu~gw~w~u
/ɾ r/ r ŗ/ŕ/rr~r
/ɮ/ ź/ŀ/zl
/i ɯ u ʊ e ɤ o ə ɛ ʌ ɔ æ a~ɑ~ɐ ɒ/ i ï/û/ú u ö/õ/ù e/é/é ü/ã/ò o/ó/ó è/â/è é/e/e ä/ŭ/à ó/o/o æ a ò/ă/á
/Vː/ Vh/V̄/VV
This is Birdish updated. The first letter is Modern Standard, second is Central, and third is Coastal.
- DesEsseintes
- mongolian
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- Joined: 31 Mar 2013 13:16
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
I’m wreaking havoc with Híí diachronics again, and here is my latest sketch for Middle Híí, the last common ancestor of Híí Proper and Húú.
*ð is back, and though it largely merges with *j, there are also reflexes in dd in Húú.
I’ll post the latest version of Húú if it becomes anything more than a scribbled mess.
Code: Select all
*m *n
*t *ts *tł *tʃ *k *kw *ʔ
*s *ł *ʃ *x *xw *h
*ð *l *j *ɣ *w
*a *e *i
I’ll post the latest version of Húú if it becomes anything more than a scribbled mess.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/m n ŋ/ m n ŋ
/p b t̟ d̟ t̪ d̪ c ɟ k g ʔ/ p b ṭ ḍ t d ḱ ǵ k g '
/f v θ̟ ð̟ s̪ z̪ ʃ ʒ ʕ h/ f v ṣ ẓ s z ś ź ğ h
/l ʎ j ɥ ʟ ɰ w/ l ĺ y ẃ ł ý w
/r/ r
/i y ɨ u e ø ə o ɛ œ ɜ ʌ ɔ ɑ/ i ü ï u e ö ë o è ȍ ä ȅ ò a
/i u e o ɛ ɔ ɑ/ > /ɨ y ə ø ʌ œ ɜ/
/p b t̟ d̟ t̪ d̪ c ɟ k g ʔ/ p b ṭ ḍ t d ḱ ǵ k g '
/f v θ̟ ð̟ s̪ z̪ ʃ ʒ ʕ h/ f v ṣ ẓ s z ś ź ğ h
/l ʎ j ɥ ʟ ɰ w/ l ĺ y ẃ ł ý w
/r/ r
/i y ɨ u e ø ə o ɛ œ ɜ ʌ ɔ ɑ/ i ü ï u e ö ë o è ȍ ä ȅ ò a
/i u e o ɛ ɔ ɑ/ > /ɨ y ə ø ʌ œ ɜ/
- DesEsseintes
- mongolian
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- Joined: 31 Mar 2013 13:16
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/m n/ m n
/t t͡ʃ d͡ʒ k g ʔ/ t c j k g ’
/s/ s
/v r/ v r
/a e o/ a e o
Permissible clusters are nC vC rC ’C.
Permissible geminates are thus mm nn vv rr but all are underlyingly clusters.
Vowels can occur in hiatus ad nauseam.
A voicing contrast in dorsal occlusives!? Feels so wrong and yet so right...
t c k only occur in clusters word-medially.
/t t͡ʃ d͡ʒ k g ʔ/ t c j k g ’
/s/ s
/v r/ v r
/a e o/ a e o
Permissible clusters are nC vC rC ’C.
Permissible geminates are thus mm nn vv rr but all are underlyingly clusters.
Vowels can occur in hiatus ad nauseam.
A voicing contrast in dorsal occlusives!? Feels so wrong and yet so right...
t c k only occur in clusters word-medially.
-
- greek
- Posts: 675
- Joined: 14 Aug 2010 13:28
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Also various dialects of English - some AmE has PRICE monophthongization but doesn't merge this with FATHER, giving [æ a ɑ] for TRAP, PRICE, FATHER; other AmE apparently has the TRAP-BATH split with [a] for BATH, so [æ a ɑ] for TRAP, BATH, FATHER.DesEsseintes wrote: ↑02 Sep 2019 17:00The Hamont dialect of Limburgish has previously been cited on this forum as a language that distinguishes front, central and back low vowels.Zekoslav wrote: ↑02 Sep 2019 11:48 I'm not sure about this, but I seem to remember that no languages distinguishing a front and a central /a/ is precisely the reason why no separate symbols for the two exist in IPA. However, a language that does distinguish them may have been discovered since the invention of the IPA.
/p t k g/ is attested - mostly I think in Papuan where /b d/ are more prone to lenition, although some cases of this in PHOIBLE have mistranscribed /ɣ/.DesEsseintes wrote: ↑11 Nov 2019 19:18 A voicing contrast in dorsal occlusives!? Feels so wrong and yet so right...
The Rotokas consonant inventory is sometimes given as /p t k β ɾ g/. But /g/ is pretty rare in Rotokas. Buin is a clearer case. It's also been claimed for Mekeo, but many things have been claimed for Mekeo.
There's also /b t k g/, attested in Bwaidoka, but there are other stops - the full inventory is /b bʷ t k g kʷ/.
Speaking of Papuan languages, another thing you can do is lenite all non-glottal plosives except in ʔ_ N_, analyze the lenited forms as basic, and get a plosive inventory of /ʔ/. The consonants of Ontena Gadsup are /ʔ ɸ β s x m n r j/.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
hīc sunt linguificēs. hēr bēoþ tungemakeras.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
The tables in the Organized Phonology Data papers aren't accurate - they often omit prenasalized stops and sometimes they contain even more glaring errors. Elsewhere in that paper it's stated that Bwaidoka has a /d/ as well (which isn't surprising, seeing as all other Austronesian languages in Milne Bay have /b t d k g/ or /p b t d k g/.Nortaneous wrote: ↑12 Nov 2019 19:55 There's also /b t k g/, attested in Bwaidoka, but there are other stops - the full inventory is /b bʷ t k g kʷ/.
Onobasulu, on the other hand, has /b d k g/.
Buin seems to have /p t k g/, but I recall reading (in another source) that /g/ can be pronounced [ɣ].
- VaptuantaDoi
- roman
- Posts: 1081
- Joined: 18 Nov 2019 07:35
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Some ideas for the smallest possible inventory for a Romlang while still looking and sounding normal. A couple of possible routes:
1. Dalmatian (15)
/p t k b d g m n f s l r/
/i u a/
2. Iberian (17)
/p t k β~b d~ð g m n s h l ɾ/
/i u e o a/
3. Gallo-Romance (14)
/m n p t d k s v l ʁ/
/i ɛ o a/
4. Southern Romance (17)
/m n p t k v d g f s l ɾ/
/i u e o a/
1. Dalmatian (15)
/p t k b d g m n f s l r/
/i u a/
Spoiler:
/p t k β~b d~ð g m n s h l ɾ/
/i u e o a/
Spoiler:
/m n p t d k s v l ʁ/
/i ɛ o a/
Spoiler:
/m n p t k v d g f s l ɾ/
/i u e o a/
Spoiler:
-
- greek
- Posts: 675
- Joined: 14 Aug 2010 13:28
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Papuan languages sometimes get like that. Kobon has a voicing contrast in affricates but not plosives - its full consonant inventory is:
Code: Select all
tɕ
b d dʑ g
ɸ s x h
m n ɲ ŋ
l ʎ
w ɾ ɽ j
b > p / #_
ɸ > p / _#
d > t / #_
And initial devoicing is optional.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/b t ɟ g ʔ/ b t c g k
/ɸ s z ʒ ɣ h/ f s z x q h
/l ʎ j w/ l j y w
/r/ r
/i u e o a/ i u e o a
/m n ŋ/ ⟨m n ŋ⟩
/p b t d k g ʔ/ ⟨p b t d k g '⟩
/f v s z x ɣ h/ ⟨f v s z ĥ ǧ h⟩
/ʦ ʣ/ (c j⟩
/l j ɰ w/ ⟨l y ỹ w
/ɾ/ ⟨ř⟩
/r/ ⟨r⟩
/Cʲ/ ⟨ĭ⟩
/i y u ʊ e ø ə o ɛ ʌ ɔ a ɒ/ ⟨i ü u ŭ e ö ê o ĕ ô ŏ a å⟩
/Vː/ ⟨V̄⟩
I like this for Proto-Birdic, I tweaked it with some spellings used in modern Birdish.
/ɸ s z ʒ ɣ h/ f s z x q h
/l ʎ j w/ l j y w
/r/ r
/i u e o a/ i u e o a
/m n ŋ/ ⟨m n ŋ⟩
/p b t d k g ʔ/ ⟨p b t d k g '⟩
/f v s z x ɣ h/ ⟨f v s z ĥ ǧ h⟩
/ʦ ʣ/ (c j⟩
/l j ɰ w/ ⟨l y ỹ w
/ɾ/ ⟨ř⟩
/r/ ⟨r⟩
/Cʲ/ ⟨ĭ⟩
/i y u ʊ e ø ə o ɛ ʌ ɔ a ɒ/ ⟨i ü u ŭ e ö ê o ĕ ô ŏ a å⟩
/Vː/ ⟨V̄⟩
I like this for Proto-Birdic, I tweaked it with some spellings used in modern Birdish.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/p b t d k g q ɢ ʔ/ <p b t d k g q ǧ '>
/f v s z ʃ ʒ ç ʝ ɕ ʑ x ɣ h/ <f v s z š ž ś ź ṡ ż x ʒ h>
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ ʨ ʥ/ <ţ ḑ ť ď ṫ ḋ>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ñ ń>
/l ʎ j ɥ ɰ ɰ͝j w/ <l l̃ j y w̄ w̃ w>
/ɾ/<r>
/r/ <rr>
/ɮ͎ ʎ̝͎/ <ḷ ł>
/i ʉ u ʊ e ø ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ʌ ɔ a ɒ/ <i ü u ǜ e ö ë o ø è ö̀ ø̀ ë̀ ò a ä>
/Vː/ <◌̱>
Ancient Birdic.
/f v s z ʃ ʒ ç ʝ ɕ ʑ x ɣ h/ <f v s z š ž ś ź ṡ ż x ʒ h>
/ʦ ʣ ʧ ʤ ʨ ʥ/ <ţ ḑ ť ď ṫ ḋ>
/m n ɲ ŋ/ <m n ñ ń>
/l ʎ j ɥ ɰ ɰ͝j w/ <l l̃ j y w̄ w̃ w>
/ɾ/<r>
/r/ <rr>
/ɮ͎ ʎ̝͎/ <ḷ ł>
/i ʉ u ʊ e ø ɤ o ə ɛ œ ɜ ʌ ɔ a ɒ/ <i ü u ǜ e ö ë o ø è ö̀ ø̀ ë̀ ò a ä>
/Vː/ <◌̱>
Ancient Birdic.
- LinguoFranco
- greek
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Here's a vowel system I've been using and I want thoughts about its naturalism and balance. I actually kinda like the system.
/i ɯ u/
/e ɤ o/
/a/
/i ɯ u/
/e ɤ o/
/a/
- Creyeditor
- MVP
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Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Looks very okay, it's basically a standard 5 vowel system plus back rounded vowels. I think some phonologists would use the IPA symbols for centrals vowels instead, but that does not really make a difference, I guess.
Creyeditor
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
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Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
1 2 3 4 4
Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Creyeditor wrote: ↑28 Dec 2019 18:43 Looks very okay, it's basically a standard 5 vowel system plus back rounded vowels. I think some phonologists would use the IPA symbols for centrals vowels instead, but that does not really make a difference, I guess.
The user formerly known as "shimobaatar".
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- LinguoFranco
- greek
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- Location: U.S.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Thanks! My concern was with having the back vowels outnumbering the front vowels, which I know is unusual among natural languages.Creyeditor wrote: ↑28 Dec 2019 18:43 Looks very okay, it's basically a standard 5 vowel system plus back rounded vowels. I think some phonologists would use the IPA symbols for centrals vowels instead, but that does not really make a difference, I guess.
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
/m n ŋ ŋʲ~ɲ/ m n ŋ ń
/p b t d k g/ p b t d k g
/f v θ~ð s z x~h ɣ~w/ f v þ/ð s z h w
/l j/ l y
/r/ r
/i u ʊ e o ʌ a ɒ/ i u ü e o å a ô
Stress is marked with an acute accent.
/p b t d k g/ p b t d k g
/f v θ~ð s z x~h ɣ~w/ f v þ/ð s z h w
/l j/ l y
/r/ r
/i u ʊ e o ʌ a ɒ/ i u ü e o å a ô
Stress is marked with an acute accent.
- DesEsseintes
- mongolian
- Posts: 4331
- Joined: 31 Mar 2013 13:16
Re: Random phonology/phonemic inventory thread
Spent what free time I had over the last two days toying with this Arabic-inspired phonology. I like many things about it, not least the romanisation. I want to come up with another romanisation that doesn’t disallow digraphs unlike this one.
/m n ŋ/ m n ṅ
/t t͡ɕ k q ʔ/ t ć k q ’
/b d d͡ʑ g ɢ/ b d j g c
/sˤ s ɕ x h/ ṣ s ś x h
/(β) zˤ z ʑ ɣ/ v ẓ z ź ġ
/θˤ ɬ ʟ̥/ þ ł ƛ
/ðˤ l ʟ/ đ l λ
/r j w/ r y w
The language probably has vowels, too.
/m n ŋ/ m n ṅ
/t t͡ɕ k q ʔ/ t ć k q ’
/b d d͡ʑ g ɢ/ b d j g c
/sˤ s ɕ x h/ ṣ s ś x h
/(β) zˤ z ʑ ɣ/ v ẓ z ź ġ
/θˤ ɬ ʟ̥/ þ ł ƛ
/ðˤ l ʟ/ đ l λ
/r j w/ r y w
The language probably has vowels, too.
Edit: Although I probably won’t spend much time developing this, I decided this phonology should be used in a mostly analytical isolang because that is the last thing it looks like it should be.