(Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
Yes. Some Uralic languages (such as Nents, Nganasan, Khanty and Mansi) show object agreement only in number, while subject agreement is, as in all Uralic languages, in person and number. There is no gender in these languages.
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- LinguoFranco
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
So, does the morphological typology of a language and the complexity of tone melodies show any correlation?
Like, is an analytic language more like to just have HL and LH, while an agglutinative language has LHL?
Like, is an analytic language more like to just have HL and LH, while an agglutinative language has LHL?
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
In terms of strict universals, the answer is probably no. You could check WALS for tendencies.
Diachronically, the shortening of words (by vowel elision etc) often leads to contours or floating tones. The same processes often lead to a loss of affixes. This could lead to complex tone systems being more common in analytic languages.
Diachronically, the shortening of words (by vowel elision etc) often leads to contours or floating tones. The same processes often lead to a loss of affixes. This could lead to complex tone systems being more common in analytic languages.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
Absolutely reasonable, no correlation implied, but c.f. Oklahoma Cherokee.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
Also, tone melodies are part of a relatively abstract analysis and not easily comparable across languages.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
I don't remember if we have discussed this before.
Which languages have both incorporation and noun classes / genders?
How do they interact? What happens to noun class markers when the noun is incorporated?
Which languages have both incorporation and noun classes / genders?
How do they interact? What happens to noun class markers when the noun is incorporated?
My meta-thread: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5760
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
You could try to get ahold of a copy of Mithun's The evolution of noun incorporation; one of the four types of incorporation she posits is Classificatory Incorporation, but I can't remember how much the kind of noun classifiers she talks about are the sort you're interested in. Definitely not all of them, but there might be some useful examples?
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- VaptuantaDoi
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
In general NI tends never to bring any modifiers, bound or otherwise, with the noun, so noun class markers will probably be dropped (NI nouns also quite often reduced from their free forms, or even suppletive). For instance there's the Australian language Bininj-gun-Wok:
baginjeŋ gunganj
3sg.SUBJ/3sg.OBJ-cook-PAST.PERF class:IV-meat
"S/he cooked (the) meat"
baganjginjeŋ
3sg.SUBJ/3sg.OBJ-meat-cook-PAST.PERF
"S/he meat-cooked" (="s/he cooked (the) meat")
I don't think it's actually all that common for polysynthetic languages to have noun classes; they're characteristic of dependent-marking languages, while polysynthetic languages tend to be strongly head-marking. But as Bininj-gun-Wok shows, it's still possible.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
But Bantu languages have noun classes and are strongly head-marking right?VaptuantaDoi wrote: ↑01 Mar 2024 07:38
I don't think it's actually all that common for polysynthetic languages to have noun classes; they're characteristic of dependent-marking languages, while polysynthetic languages tend to be strongly head-marking. But as Bininj-gun-Wok shows, it's still possible.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
True. It's not a very strong corellation.Creyeditor wrote: ↑01 Mar 2024 07:45But Bantu languages have noun classes and are strongly head-marking right?VaptuantaDoi wrote: ↑01 Mar 2024 07:38
I don't think it's actually all that common for polysynthetic languages to have noun classes; they're characteristic of dependent-marking languages, while polysynthetic languages tend to be strongly head-marking. But as Bininj-gun-Wok shows, it's still possible.
Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
I was looking for something else but found a Coptic example. The gender marker t- is preserved.VaptuantaDoi wrote: ↑01 Mar 2024 07:38
In general NI tends never to bring any modifiers, bound or otherwise, with the noun, so noun class markers will probably be dropped (NI nouns also quite often reduced from their free forms, or even suppletive).
a-f-kô n-t-sêfe
PST-3SGM-put ACC-DEF.FSG-sword
'He put the sword.'
a-f-ka-t-sêfe
PST-3SGM-put-DEF.FSG-sword
'He put the sword.'
The author seems to see ka as a derivational affix (though he speaks about a lexical affix.) https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source= ... zP2tiuQN9i
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
If a language only has a singular/plural distinction, but descended from a proto-lang that marked dual and Paucal (3-5) on the noun, how naturalistic would it be to say that if a noun phrase has 2-5 as a numeral, the language does not require plural marker on the noun? Or is the opposite more natural? Or would it be up to the conlanger?
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
*shrugs*Shemtov wrote: ↑05 Mar 2024 22:48 If a language only has a singular/plural distinction, but descended from a proto-lang that marked dual and Paucal (3-5) on the noun, how naturalistic would it be to say that if a noun phrase has 2-5 as a numeral, the language does not require plural marker on the noun? Or is the opposite more natural? Or would it be up to the conlanger?
What happened to the dual and paucal? If they merged phonologically into the singular, then of course you'd use the singular where previously you'd used dual and paucal. If they merged phonologically into the plural, then you'd use the plural. If they simply became less popular and were replaced by the plural spreading its function, then the plural would have spread its function to the situations where previously you'd have used the dual and the paucal.
I find it hard to imagine people simply replacing the paucal with the singular for no reason.
However, perhaps the dual might be replaced by the singular, given that its use is often restricted to natural pairs, which form a natural entity.
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
How unusual would it be for a language to have phonemic breathy voiced stops, but no regular voiced nor aspirated stops?
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
This sounds unusual but not impossible. One way to think of it would be that voicing is contrastive and breathy voice is just an allophonic process that applies to voiced stops before vowels, which is still unusual but maybe not as unusual.
IMHO, it would be easier to say that vowels are contrastively breathy or non-breathy but this contrast is neutralized after certain consonant (i.e. all non-[voiced stops]).
IMHO, it would be easier to say that vowels are contrastively breathy or non-breathy but this contrast is neutralized after certain consonant (i.e. all non-[voiced stops]).
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
Would basically be the opposite of languages that contrast between aspirated voiceless and unaspirated voiced stopsLinguoFranco wrote: ↑12 Mar 2024 19:13 How unusual would it be for a language to have phonemic breathy voiced stops, but no regular voiced nor aspirated stops?
Instead of stop[+aspirated][-voiced] vs stop[-aspirated][+voiced], you'd be having stop[-aspirated][-voiced] vs stop[+aspirated][+voiced]
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
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The longing of the spirit can never be stilled.” ― St. Hildegard von Bingen
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
Like diachronically?
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
Yeah, like where could I go from the 2440 vowels? They aren't set in stone, they're just what I have now.
“Like billowing clouds, Like the incessant gurgle of the brook,
The longing of the spirit can never be stilled.” ― St. Hildegard von Bingen
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
I don't think this looks like 416 years' worth of sound changes... most of them are pretty minuscule. Maybe some contextual changes? With every lexical set remaining undivided and only one merger, it just looks like a slightly weird 2024 English accent.