Search found 887 matches

by Xonen
02 Feb 2023 00:59
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: Peripheral Euro features
Replies: 16
Views: 1266

Re: Peripheral Euro features

No Finnish dialect has interdentals. Some apparently had at historical times. I believe he's referring to the Kven language, which does have /ð/ as a phoneme. Strictly speaking, the Pyssyjoki dialect of Kven (see here ): https://blogs.helsinki.fi/tkoukkar/files/2023/02/kventable.png The grapheme <đ...
by Xonen
08 Mar 2022 23:29
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
Replies: 1076
Views: 277310

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

There seems to be no limits to what linguists might call 'cognitive' Indeed, "cognitive linguistics" can mean several different things depending on who's (claiming to be) practising it. And then there's Cognitive Linguistics (capital initials), which is apparently pretty much entirely bas...
by Xonen
20 Feb 2022 17:12
Forum: Everything Else
Topic: The Sixth Conversation Thread
Replies: 712
Views: 190750

Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Sheumais ⇒ Hamish [O.O] Lenition out the wazoo Backdoor Fortition Y U do dat, Gaeliclangs?! An amazing, amazing mazazing, druidically enchanting group 'o' tongues are they, the whole Ghoidelic Bunch :!: And toss a caber my way if I'm wrong!!! Well, technically, I'm not sure if there's any fortition...
by Xonen
19 Feb 2022 02:03
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
Replies: 1076
Views: 277310

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Saami languages also use the genitive in an adverbial function in some cases, as in Inari lávvárdâh 'Saturday' vs. lávvárduv 'of Saturday', 'on Saturday'. Then there's the fact that at least some of these English and Swedish adverbs are descended from prepositional phrases, and some prepositions his...
by Xonen
18 Feb 2022 18:17
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here
Replies: 1076
Views: 277310

Re: (L&N) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Omzinesý wrote: 18 Feb 2022 16:56English (and Swedish in some words) has the -s in seas, besides, anyways...
It has probably been more productive. What did it code? Where does it derive from?
Genitive.
by Xonen
28 Jan 2022 22:45
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: False cognates
Replies: 902
Views: 324240

Re: False cognates

:lva: bet :eng: but I've spent the last dozen years or so under the impression that these were true cognates; I guess I just sort of assumed that, since Latvian has a whole bunch of Low German loanwords anyway, this must be one of them as well. But today, I went to Low German class and found out th...
by Xonen
26 Jan 2022 23:20
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: False cognates
Replies: 902
Views: 324240

Re: False cognates

:lva: bet :eng: but I've spent the last dozen years or so under the impression that these were true cognates; I guess I just sort of assumed that, since Latvian has a whole bunch of Low German loanwords anyway, this must be one of them as well. But today, I went to Low German class and found out the...
by Xonen
29 Nov 2021 16:42
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: Questions on Finnish and Estonian Phonology and Orthography [split]
Replies: 30
Views: 5147

Re: Questions on Finnish and Estonian Phonology and Orthography [split]

Can we really speak about "Standard Finnish" before 19th century? There were some religious texts, but was there really any standard way of reading them. I would guess everybody read them aloud according their own dialect. Of course, they were mostly read by priests whose L1 was usually S...
by Xonen
24 Nov 2021 00:13
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: Questions on Finnish and Estonian Phonology and Orthography [split]
Replies: 30
Views: 5147

Re: Questions on Finnish and Estonian Phonology and Orthography

However, if the sound change site Xonen linked is correct and the /t͡s/ -> /θ/ shift already happened between Proto-Finnic and Proto-Finnish, then the shift /*t͡s/ -> /*θ/ -> /*t͡s/ had to have happened at some point in those dialects... or alternatively the dialects where it remained /t͡s/ split o...
by Xonen
23 Nov 2021 23:51
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: Questions on Finnish and Estonian Phonology and Orthography [split]
Replies: 30
Views: 5147

Re: Questions on Finnish and Estonian Phonology and Orthography

Spanish had /t͡s̪/ > /s̪/ > /θ̟/ That was the one I could think of too, but didn't think it counts since it had an intermediate stage. Why would that matter? Just like speakers are unlikely to reject a sound change because their ancestors already had it, they're unlikely to reject a natural sequenc...
by Xonen
22 Nov 2021 23:28
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: Questions on Finnish and Estonian Phonology and Orthography [split]
Replies: 30
Views: 5147

Re: Questions on Finnish and Estonian Phonology and Orthography

The modern standard pronunciations were established in the 19th century, so the relevant Swedish influence is 19th century Swedish-speaking intelligentsia getting caught up in Finnish nationalism and starting to learn Finnish. It has absolutely nothing to do with Old Swedish or Vikings or even Agri...
by Xonen
22 Nov 2021 21:26
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
Replies: 880
Views: 273798

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Gutnish päiku "girl" v.s. Swedish pojke "boy" Not sure if they are cognates though Seems like päiku would more likely be a cognate of Swedish piga 'maid', from Old Norse píka (but I don't know for sure). It's apparently possible both of these are originally loans from Finnish (o...
by Xonen
21 Nov 2021 22:38
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: Questions on Finnish and Estonian Phonology and Orthography [split]
Replies: 30
Views: 5147

Re: Questions on Finnish and Estonian Phonology and Orthography

*/ʃt/ > /ht/ has happened in Finnic, along with general /ʃ/ > /h/: lehti 'leaf' < * lešte , heinä 'hay' < * šaina etc. But this happened at some stage in Proto-Finnic Somehow I managed to completely forget about that. [:$] Maybe subconsciously I was partially thinking of that, though... it having h...
by Xonen
19 Nov 2021 21:03
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: Questions on Finnish and Estonian Phonology and Orthography [split]
Replies: 30
Views: 5147

Re: Questions on Finnish and Estonian Phonology and Orthography

On the other hand, it may be the case that <z> is normally pronounced /ts/ (as in German) in Finnish, but /s/ in Estonian. Not just "may", that is indeed actually the case. Although neither language actually uses <z> in its normal orthography; again, proper nouns (primarily foreign ones) ...
by Xonen
18 Nov 2021 23:29
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: Questions on Finnish and Estonian Phonology and Orthography [split]
Replies: 30
Views: 5147

Re: False cognates

it's generally assumed that it was actually /θ/ or /θ:/ (/ts/ in Finnish being a dialectalism that has since spread to the standard language, possibly partially as a spelling pronunciation). I keep hearing this, but with time I've gotten very sceptical about it because I've never heard a single arg...
by Xonen
18 Nov 2021 21:10
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: False cognates
Replies: 902
Views: 324240

Re: False cognates

The tangent that grew out of the Ievan Polkka discussion has been split off into its own thread.
by Xonen
17 Nov 2021 23:10
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: Questions on Finnish and Estonian Phonology and Orthography [split]
Replies: 30
Views: 5147

Re: False cognates

That was something that confused me about the lyrics in the booklet for Ajattara's album Äpäre . I'd have to did it out, but I'm sure it used < c > in place of < k > in almost all instances, possibly except where < k > came after another consonant (where it would remain < k >)? I'm not familiar wit...
by Xonen
16 Nov 2021 21:54
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: False cognates
Replies: 902
Views: 324240

Re: False cognates

Another unusual example: English "Rat-a-tat" vs Finnish "Hra-ca-ca" (most prominently known in Ievan Polkka) It's an ambiguous example though, as these words don't actually mean anything, they're normally just filler words used for metrical or rhyming purposes in poetic/musical ...
by Xonen
15 Nov 2021 20:47
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: False cognates
Replies: 902
Views: 324240

Re: False cognates

Another unusual example: English "Rat-a-tat" vs Finnish "Hra-ca-ca" (most prominently known in Ievan Polkka) It's an ambiguous example though, as these words don't actually mean anything, they're normally just filler words used for metrical or rhyming purposes in poetic/musical ...
by Xonen
10 Oct 2021 18:36
Forum: Linguistics & Natlangs
Topic: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences
Replies: 880
Views: 273798

Re: False friends and other unfortunate coincidences

Why do people so often assume there were loans? It could just as well be, with such a simple concept, that the word is original to both branches of Indo-Uralic and developed according to now-lost rules, likely changing much more on the IE side than on the Uralic side, from the original root. Again,...