Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

The planets in the Írödian system are named, in CT, after personal attributes or characteristics:

0.45 AU – Tahkë (introversion)
0.8 AU – Íröd (that just means 'ground'; it's the odd one out, for obvious reasons)
1.14 AU – Tuhêge (attention-seeking)
1.8 AU – Lohsi (extraversion)
3.2 AU – Łe n Edar (asteroid belt; lit. 'river of thoughts/ideas' < plural of dehr 'to think')

When they discovered planets around the Xi Boötis B, they kept the theme:

0.04 AU – Náirad (wisdom, street smarts)
0.95 AU – Kôl (intelligence, book smarts)

Xi Boötis A is just Hagkün 'sun'. Xi Boötis B is Hadál Iénhu n Taád 'King-of-the-Sky'.

The twin moons of Íröd are Hö Éĝris ('older brother'; larger, farther out) and Hö Mïsteḫ ('younger brother'; smaller, closer in).

As you might guess, dehr 'idea' also means 'asteroid', and 'brother' is also used with the meaning 'moon, natural satellite'.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

There are four main ways to write CT (the "four modes", Höhsë ü gûrn Ahsaha), divisible into two pairs (eastalri, sg. gestalri):

Gestalri n ḫisí (image-based)
Sasaha n orón (color mode) – The OG system of Tim Ar writing, which saw a revival when Bleffys Udd came around and reëstablished the empire. Sort of like Aztec hieroglyphs; color is meaningful and everything is little stylized drawings. Supplanted by other scripts and modes back in the day, it has seen a resurgence as a sort of blend of visual art, graphic design, calligraphy, and floriography.
Sasaha n maḫneḫ (hieroglyphic mode) – Your bog-standard hieroglyphics. Black-and-white. Essentially Egyptian with the serial glyphs filed off.

Gestalri n oisog (cuneiform-based)
Sasaha n Atki (Atskian mode) – Some upstart named Atki is credited with creating this in frustration after the eastalri n ḫisí were reserved for the upper crust. Originated from Monumental Khaya hieroglyphic phonetic complements.
Sasaha n Lemhár (Levarian mode) – Sort of a calligraphic or stylized version of Atskian mode. No horizontal lines, and lines are canted by 30° from horizontal (left-to-upper-right diagonal), with individual blocks kind of sideways-stacked—think something like "////" for the layout, though each slash/block is much less vertical.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Some Easter eggs for CBB'ers who've been supportive of me. Not a comprehensive list, and some who have presence on the ZBB have been acknowledged there; if you object, please so state.

łímo hero (shimobaatar, with a detour through Mongolian for "baatar")
gestalri pair; binary (gestaltist)
lór power of 10, logarithm (loglorn)
kréed feedback, results, opinion, status, estimation, evaluation; to test, to evaluate, to try out; to survey, to gauge, to solicit opinion (Creyeditor)
lémrilas balloon (elemtilas)
san military uniform, combat dress (sangi39)
eldin more (eldin raigmore)
ḫemehé pale, pallid, flushed (Khemehekis; the connotation came from a comment he made about something)
karénü to count, to count off, to enumerate (k1234567890y)
tírus flavor, taste (Titus Flavius)
tihtus small mark, scratch, ding, nick, notch (Titus Flavius again, again from a comment)
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Redid some dates thanks to Fantasy Calendar. Still not sure how to account for the difference in day lengths but what's here should be a relatively nearby date rendered in various conventions.

1 Öshë Msaĝ, 906 CYY
161 Olsuóguóno Luígina Untúgsiálguí RD
Ôaiay 1:6, 1533 CÔB
Muôn 2 Danggan, 3483 YBI
Urdme 8, 1625 TFY
XIV Agánni, MMDCXXXII ASV
Śaśer 23, 3492 CC
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Surface forms of CT plurals

This is a problem that's been bugging me for a while. Might as well try to write some formal rules for it…

When it comes to the CT "decompositional" plurals, you form plurals by metathesizing the first CV sequence:
tagóm 'ingot, bar' > argóm 'ingots' (the t > r thing is regular)
mírín 'brick' > ímrín 'bricks'

First, the easy one out of the way: No geminates. If you'd get a geminate sequence between vowels, replace it with coda h.
kagor 'furnace; (later) rocket engine, thruster' > ahgor 'furnaces' ([sup]X[/sup]aggor)
ríre 'hair, filament, follicle, strand, string' > íhre 'hairs'

For purposes of pluralization, g and h often pattern together as "laryngeals" ("H" below) and are given to vocalizing to a.
HVC₂C₃- > VaC₂C₃-
C₁VHC₃- > VC₁aC₃-
C₁VC₂H- > VC₁C₂a-

If the word begins with h, you know you're in for a grand time.
hVCC- > VhCC-
- Underlying tr, lr, and kr become ts
- Similarly, underlying tl, rl, and kl become
Then h deletes.

This can actually be generalized, as certain sequences with /h/ are more or less easy to resolve via a common pathway:
C₁V{h,g}C₃- > (via an intermediate VC₁{h,g}C₃- >) VC₁aC₃
C₁V{h,g}C₃- > (via an intermediate VC₁{h,g}C₃- >) VC₁aC₃

Remember how above I mentioned that geminates become coda /h/? That interferes here too.
nínlug 'trough' > íanlug ([sup]X[/sup]ínnlug)

These rules in combination sometimes lead to incredible results:
gig SCAPE > iha PL/SCAPE
ter 'woman' > ehr 'women'

If the second consonant would be a syllabic resonant (other than g), let it so stand:
lémrilas 'balloon' > élmrilas 'balloons'

Other final clusters and medial triconsonantal clusters are also disallowed and supported by an epenthetic i:
ĝar (underlying ĝat) 'bell, whistle, signifier, alarm, klaxon' > aĝri ([sup]X[/sup]aĝt)
sadĝa 'taffy bar' > asdiĝa 'taffy bars'
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

So I really want the Tim Ar to have an involved caste system (tël hugú, roughly 'census-ology'). I'm not sure how this develops aside from a few facets: I do know that the Caber dynasties had some influence in it and that a few millennia later Bleffys Udd has a hand in propping it up. The form I want it to have is basically a three-metric scheme: What I term méri 'origin', akrár 'station', and këmêm 'guild'. (I don't use "race/ethnicity", "varna", and "jati"; that wouldn't quite map.)

Méri

The term méri (pl. émri) is here glossed as 'origin'. It's not exactly race or ethnicity—the classifications aren't strictly by blood quantum/genetic, though that is a component of the system. From most to least prestigious:

- hía (< CK fi-a 'person of ten')
- uíráha (< CK wita-ha 'person of the mountain')
- konrín ('northerner')
- kía (< CK ki-a 'person of six')

The descriptor hía corresponds to the various descendants of the PTO cultural complex: The Tim Ar themselves, the O, the gPangin, and related peoples. Uíráha is a general term for certain favored peoples in the Empire (the hía themselves are actually a subset of uíráha, but they're worth mention separately), while the term konrín was appropriated by Bleffys Udd to refer to certain groups within the Empire who had willingly submitted to assimilation or were otherwise entrenched by that time; kía is basically a wastebasket taxon for "none of the above".

Specific uíráha constituents include the Caber (kên), the Täptäg (támreg), the peoples of the Mziddyun (all thrown together as sáĝir), the Kgáweq' (láhiḫ—and that is actually a cognate term), and those known as eglór—persons of one- to three-quarters hía heritage, regardless of any other ethnic makeup. It is sometimes possible for one to get "promoted" from eglór status to hía. (The Tim Ar have a system similar to plaçage—you can enter into a semi-formal arrangement with a member of another guild, station, or origin; this gives your placée and family some legal recourse upon your death and in some cases it was able to secure a legal status of hía for your children.)

Being from a specific méri limited your options in society quite a bit vis-à-vis social stratification (q.v.).

Akrár

Akrár, here glossed 'station', is roughly analogous to what you would consider social class in Western-style systems. The following stations exist; I've given some general examples of occupations whose guilds you'll find as members, though this is not a comprehensive list.

- oími (aristocracy) – administrative, land-owning, judges, legislators, gigabusiness, old money, hawaladars, high military officers, supra-local politicians
- oisog (academics) – lawyers, investigators, accountants, bankers, scientists, apothecaries, engineers, architects, educators, researchers, journalists, archivists, historians, military intelligence, creative arts
- łores (commoners) – white-collar jobs, desk jobs, office jobs
- kalahíes (vulgar commoners) – pink-collar jobs, jobs in the service industry, creatives, the gig economy as primary, law enforcement
- soł (thralls) – blue-collar jobs, manual labor, agricultural workers, the energy industry, mining, professional sports
- uígúa (untouchables) – the dirty jobs

You do find military among the ranks of the oími, oisog, and łores—or really most of the stations—but many of the actual boots on the ground (think the front-liners, the marines, black ops, SEALs) are considered uígúa, at least temporarily. Military service often presents roads for advancement of social status; it's one of the few ways that basically anyone has a chance to climb the social ladder. While deployed, the soldier is considered uígúa. If he musters out with a sufficient track record or demonstration of skill, he can often be "promoted" or "assigned" to an appropriate guild (q.v.). Similarly, while being educated, practitioners of medical care are considered uígúa. Medical work is another rare means by which one can be "promoted" or "assigned", though it's also somewhat more difficult to do so this way. (There are also medical guilds that just happen to be uígúa.)

To a first approximation, the difference between łores and kalahíes is, in many respects, "Would this job hire me without five years of experience/a Bachelor's degree"? Continuing this thread, you can think of oisog kind of like Master's- or Doctorate-level. The soł are often chattel; even if they're not formally owned by another (or the state), they're heavily discriminated against regardless. However, even they are considered better off than the uígúa—this descriptor covers jobs of the sort oft featured on Dirty Jobs with Mike Rowe and also includes death-, disease-, and bodily-fluid-related professions generally. This deserves special mention because there are very strict rules on hygiene, so you'll get things like an oisog doctor ordering around some uígúa attendants who do the actual work with the (contagious) patient. This causes much needless overcomplication. (The term uígúa itself comes from Classical Khaya wiqhu-a 'people of 12', from the base in which the Khaya counted. As you might guess, the Tim Ar ended up Uno Reverse Carding them.)

The interplay between méri and possible akrár works this way:
- Hía can be oími, oisog, or łores
- Uíráha can be oisog, łores, or kalahíes
- Konrín can be łores, kalahíes, or soł
- Kía can be kalahíes, soł, or uígúa

Këmêm

The këmêm (pl. egumêm), or 'guild', is the endogamous extended unit to which one belongs and within which one is generally expected to marry. There are too many of these to list, and they operate to varying degrees of specificity. For example, the Úulïd guild are expected to become master chefs, whereas the Tálgahkáhan are specifically theoretical and megastructural engineers, and the Îłtáaî are daredevils and performance artists; on the other hand, you get guilds like the Këlogmê, who constitute basically all restaurant personnel within a given major metropolitan area. In some cases, a locative element is present to one degree of specificity or another; a number of egumêm originated from regional (or sometimes even intra-city!) professional societies, trade guilds, or unions.

You're supposed to marry within your këmêm; any children of that union will be of the same këmêm. However, it is acknowledged that children from mixed-këmêm unions will exist; the rules regarding plaçage are still being ironed out, but generally you default to the méri, akrár, and këmêm of your mother. The exception to this is if the father is at least half-hía (i.e. at least one grandfather was hía); in some situations this can "override" expectations of heritability—though often only in legal force upon reaching adulthood or upon death of the father. You can make one of your placée's children your primary heir, but you'll only do this if a) you have no legitimate children of your own or b) you have judged your legitimate heirs unworthy—though such a move is not to be taken lightly; you're basically insinuating that your flesh and blood is such a failure that you had to go outside the guild to find someone suitable.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

I found this on Wikipedia the other day. Guess what the tactical spacesuits look like now (though maybe without so many eyeholes)?
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

I would like to request the assistance of the board at large.

This is a geographic map of Íröd:

Image

This is a climate map:

Image

Per advice from the ZBB, the generator I used appears to have ignored elevation when determining the climate. Would anyone here be willing to help me figure out a reasonable climate map?

I'm also trying to figure out plausible migrational patterns for the adasar once they started expanding from their origin. Currently, their Urheimat is in the valley system in the center of the Burning Mountains:

Image

The immediate question is, is a crossing of the mountains northerly a reasonable operation, or would it be more likely to go all the way to the lower elevation section near the west coast and then hug the north coast once they reached it?

More generally speaking: What are some things I should keep in mind when trying to figure plausible emigration waves? What are the characteristics of likely routes?
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Keenir »

Man in Space wrote: 01 Jun 2023 00:14The immediate question is, is a crossing of the mountains northerly a reasonable operation, or would it be more likely to go all the way to the lower elevation section near the west coast and then hug the north coast once they reached it?
Split the difference, maybe? Part of the migratory group wants to skirt the edge of the mountains, and have lots of yummy gourds to munch on...while the other part wants to see just how far they can climb up the mountain of We Are Proving Ourselves with its succulent herds.
More generally speaking: What are some things I should keep in mind when trying to figure plausible emigration waves? What are the characteristics of likely routes?
Is there something to hunt or gather or fish for? (and while a map may advise on that, its your call)
At work on Apaan: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4799
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

I've made a tentative new climate map (key from here):

Image
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

So what we got here is a basic political map. Red is the Tim Ar, green the Tlar Kyanà, and purple the Confederacy of the Violet Sun:

Image
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Tinkering with the imperial layout somewhat.

Image
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Crossposting this from the Conworld Random Thread.

The Tim Ar system of administrative divisions is…messy.

The "main line of succession":
- At the top you have the kedén îktu 'empire'.
- Next comes the mgíḫ 'viceroyalty' (of which there are five: ).
- Below that, you have the êu 'theme'.
- The ḫôrág 'riding' is a handful of smaller divisions (typically three to seven make up a theme).
- After the riding is the łiłtúge 'canton'
- At the bottom is the kámr 'city'.
- As a bonus, there is concept of the kámr ḫér 'free city', which is a city directly answering to the theme. There are two, both in the Core Imperium: Ágmrgámr (the City of Cities), the capital, and Írödkámr (World City), a sort of city-sized UN zone.
- There is also the concept of the ares ḫér úh iénhu 'special administrative zone'. These skip straight to the kámr level (i.e., there are no intervening divisions). There are two of these, namely Ḫurgéłis (Hurkélis) and Msíriún (the Mziddyun).

It wouldn't be a good, realistic system without the omustá (sg. moustá), which add more than a few wrinkles:

- There's one úh neém 'condominium', Úh Neém Támreg (the Täptäg Condominium). The condominium is divisible into a smaller unit, the sanhián 'prefecture', and thence the city. Some prefectures are coterminous with cities.
- The ninráḫ 'banner' is a military state or junta that has been incorporated. There are four: Ákłi (Oqsh), Kal Iháni, Teherís (Deverris), and Uúrlatłára (Wur Jara). These are divisible into a smaller unit called an en n'éarig 'vingtaine' and thence the city.
- There are also the concept of the arëm 'castellany' and the káirén 'palatinate', former city-states or similar, smaller entities that merged with the empire willingly—so they got perks/special privileges. The difference between the two is whether there was a significant garrison or not at the time of annexation. Where required, these are split into the ûl 'quarter' or 'district' level.
- The lone dołar î sagïs 'papal state' divides into the ómakses 'circle', then the kástïs 'moot', then the city.
- The łektóron 'dependency' is a constituent state that has been absorbed and is not otherwise specified. These divide into the province (úh dohár) and the county (lûg) before the city.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Image

Once more with mountains:

Image
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Creyeditor »

Wow, these maps look really cool. I like the new style.
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by WeepingElf »

Yes, those maps rock.
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by shimobaatar »

Man in Space wrote: 06 Nov 2022 05:48 łímo hero (shimobaatar, with a detour through Mongolian for "baatar")
There's a lot of very interesting & impressive stuff here! Hopefully I'll have more time to properly read things over & comment on them soon, but for now I just wanted to express my appreciation for this. [:D]
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Image
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

shimobaatar wrote: 11 Jul 2023 23:35
Man in Space wrote: 06 Nov 2022 05:48 łímo hero (shimobaatar, with a detour through Mongolian for "baatar")
There's a lot of very interesting & impressive stuff here! Hopefully I'll have more time to properly read things over & comment on them soon, but for now I just wanted to express my appreciation for this. [:D]
[<3]
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Man in Space
roman
roman
Posts: 1304
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 08:07
Location: Ohio

Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

WIP:

Image
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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