How NOT to Conworld.

[Qaar]

What is Warhammer already? I've only heard the thing in the title of a video-game. @_@

You paint figures, then take them to a shop that sells the figures, and play a complicated game with them. It could be understood as incredibly nerdy by most.

You mean like some of my friends who play DnD... -_-'

Worse
Nerdy guys who go "Pew pew I blast you with my proton antineutrino plasma gattling machine cannon that destabilises your armour's proton lattice and strips you naked"

[Ollock]

What is Warhammer already? I've only heard the thing in the title of a video-game. @_@

You paint figures, then take them to a shop that sells the figures, and play a complicated game with them. It could be understood as incredibly nerdy by most.

You mean like some of my friends who play DnD... -_-'

No, the table-top Warhammer games are a little different. Rather than individual characters, you control entire armies made up of figures. I imagine it's a rather expensive hobby.

[Qaar]

You mean like some of my friends who play DnD... -_-'

No, the table-top Warhammer games are a little different. Rather than individual characters, you control entire armies made up of figures. I imagine it's a rather expensive hobby.

Yes, more like this.
An Axis-and-Allies with orcs and pseudo-Catholic spacenazis and a huge pricetag since it requires you to collect everything you'll need instead of providing you with it.

[Zumir]

Also, universally sadomasochistic space pirates. Did I mention the sadomasochistic space pirates?

[Qaar]

Also, universally sadomasochistic space pirates. Did I mention the sadomasochistic space pirates?

Oh yes, those too.
And Soldiernuns.

[Veris]

On topic: If a conculture has completely equal gender roles in everything, no concept of property, and complete polyamory with omnipresent bisexuality, it's completely unsalvageable.

That usually falls under my number six, heh.

What's wrong with elves, as long as they aren't just the generic perfect ones?

Nothing's wrong with elves. I'm describing things that make me lose interest in a conworld, not things that are "bad." Now, if you want to ask me why they turn me off -- nothing says "unoriginal" quite like elves. It's just...so lazy, so cliché. "They're exactly like humans, except they have pointy ears, live for thousands of years and are way smarter and kinder and more civil and more magical than humans." Gee. Fascinating. "Came up with that all by yourself, eh?" is my response.

I always found conworlding a damn sight harder than conlanging. Then again, I like to focus on tiny details of things before actually doing the important stuff. Procrastination, my friends.

Huh. I feel the exact opposite. You can conworld ad hoc, but to conlang you sorta have to understand linguistics. I mean, you don't really HAVE to, but if you don't, you'll just end up making a cipher of your 1lang.

Balancing out scope, just looking at rawly how difficult something is, I'd vote for conlanging. Conworlding is certainly more time-consuming, but ultimately you can just come up with a list of kings, funny names and scribble a map and you've got a conworld. Nothing impressive, but it would be a world. To make a conlang that's actually a language (as long as you're not just making a cipher or just mix-matching pieces of existing langs) takes a lot of work and knowhow and study.

So if I use emoticons does that make my conworld worse? O: ):
Who care about emoticons, what matters is content...
Sorry for commenting the least important thing you referred but oh well...

I'm talking about when you professionally present your conworld. Like, imagine if the Almeopedia was peppered every ten lines with an emoticon.

Also, universally sadomasochistic space pirates. Did I mention the sadomasochistic space pirates?

Oh yes, those too.
And Soldiernuns.

IMO, still preferable to the Loli-Pope.

[Micamo]

Jaela was designed because every D&D player is a closet pedophile.

[Trailsend]

Huh. I feel the exact opposite. You can conworld ad hoc, but to conlang you sorta have to understand linguistics. I mean, you don't really HAVE to, but if you don't, you'll just end up making a cipher of your 1lang.

I think this goes both ways. To conworld you sorta have to understand anthropology, ethnography, sociology, economics, biology, climatology, etc. (barring any rewritten rules of physics, but even then). You don't really HAVE to, but if you don't, you'll just end up making a cipher of your native culture or someone else's conworld (like, say, Tolkien's elves).

Conworlding is certainly more time-consuming, but ultimately you can just come up with a list of kings, funny names and scribble a map and you've got a conworld. Nothing impressive, but it would be a world.

Similarly, you can come up with a list of phonemes, funny grammar twists and scribble a Lord's Prayer translation and you've got a "conlang." Nothing impressive, but it would be a language.

I would say that making a conworld that's actually a working world takes a lot of work, knowhow, and study, especially since doing so draws on so many diverse fields.

[Ànradh]

Warhammer? Oh yeah, it's so expensive I gave up on it years ago, and I always assumed I was a nerd but some of the guys who frequent the stores... Yikes.
There are a number of things that annoy me lore-wise, but it was a lot of fun and tended to remain (fairly) consistent as the game evolved. Number one annoyance? They would speak of things like 'the Eldar language' when the Eldar are a galaxy spanning race. :|

I only have humans in my conworld because the original intent behind it was as background lore for a video-game or tabletop RPG or something similar and I knew at least some people would bitch if they had to be the funny looking creature with absolutely no sex-appeal.
Similar reasoning behind making all the sapient species humanoid (a decision which actually still annoys me a little); can you imagine the hell a design team would have to go through to create equipment for something resembling the love-child of an octopus and a tortoise? Or the homes? Especially when you had a member from another race visit?

[Zumir]

IMO, still preferable to the Loli-Pope.

Oh my god, that's just terrible. Never remind me of it again.
Anyway, back on topic. One of the things that annoys me most in fantasy is the tendency to have species be equivalent to civilizations, made even worse if those "races" are clearly identifiable as actual cultures.

[joey]

Deal-Breakingly Bad
4. A map with tons of unpronouncable, discordant names. Nothing personal, but like this. My ten-year-old nephew, who just started conworlding, makes stuff like that, and I only appreciate it 'cause he's my nephew, and is young. Someone in their twenties or thirties (or god-forbid, fourties) should be able to do better. Either way, my interest nosedives when I see something like that.

Whoa, whoa, whoa. What's wrong with those names? Anyone can pronounce them. Sure there are some cs and xs and umlauts, but those are far from essential in determining an estimated pronunciation for a casual observer. Plus, they're all from fully-developed, fully-explained conlangs with fully-developed, fully-explained orthographies created by the mapmaker, Mark Rosenfelder, here.

[joey]

If that turns you off, what turns you on?

[MrKrov]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. What's wrong with those names? Anyone can pronounce them. Sure there are some cs and xs and umlauts, but those are far from essential in determining an estimated pronunciation for a casual observer. Plus, they're all from fully-developed, fully-explained conlangs with fully-developed, fully-explained orthographies created by the mapmaker, Mark Rosenfelder, here.

I picked "Nagbe" off the map at random and plugged it into the Almeopedia.

Mgunikpe languages constitute a single, distinct family, and include Nagbe (to the west of the Kra) and Gunik (on the frigid east coast of Luduyn). Nothing is known of them, presently.
Mgunikpe is an Old Skourene word; Nagbe and Gunik are modern derivatives, all apparently imitations of the native ethnonyms.

Make of that what you will. I can pick another one at random if you want?

If that turns you off, what turns you on?

That is a terrible question.

[joey]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. What's wrong with those names? Anyone can pronounce them. Sure there are some cs and xs and umlauts, but those are far from essential in determining an estimated pronunciation for a casual observer. Plus, they're all from fully-developed, fully-explained conlangs with fully-developed, fully-explained orthographies created by the mapmaker, Mark Rosenfelder, here.

I picked "Nagbe" off the map at random and plugged it into the Almeopedia.

Mgunikpe languages constitute a single, distinct family, and include Nagbe (to the west of the Kra) and Gunik (on the frigid east coast of Luduyn). Nothing is known of them, presently.
Mgunikpe is an Old Skourene word; Nagbe and Gunik are modern derivatives, all apparently imitations of the native ethnonyms.

Make of that what you will. I can pick another one at random if you want?

It's all right there. The language is Old Skourene. Nagbe and Gunik are Skourene place-names that imitate the native place-names. Nothing is known of Nagbe and Gunik, but they're still fully pronounceable. (They even have all-English letters, and the consonant cluster "-gb-" is nothing new—say "big boy.") What about them makes the author squirm?

If that turns you off, what turns you on?

That is a terrible question.

Um.... okay. Then allow me to elucidate. I'm asking the author to provide us with an example of a conworld political map that meets his tastes.

EDIT: didn't realize I wasn't talking to the thread author

[MrKrov]

It's all right there. The language is Old Skourene. Nagbe and Gunik are Skourene place-names that imitate the native place-names.

And since those are imitations, what fully-developed, fully-explained conlangs would I go to learn about what they are imitated from?

Plus, they're all from fully-developed, fully-explained conlangs with fully-developed, fully-explained orthographies

This is the bit I had an objection. You don't need to be a little patronizing bitch about pronunciation. If you really need one:

Dhekhnami

That clearly wasn't developed when published on the map, the conlang behind it still isn't published, nor is it obvious what pronunciation is correct upon observation. Maybe there's a /ð/, maybe not. Maybe there's a /x/, maybe it's a /k.h/ cluster. The map won't tell you.

Um.... okay. Then allow me to elucidate. I'm asking the author to provide us with an example of a conworld political map that meets his tastes.

Number 7 for the dense. Your elucidation wasn't needed.

[Thakowsaizmu]

Jaela was designed because every D&D player is a closet pedophile.

What the hell is a jaela? And it's better than being one of those people who likes dragons. People who like them all have Oedipus complexes...

[Avjunza]

Jaela was designed because every D&D player is a closet pedophile.

What the hell is a jaela? And it's better than being one of those people who likes dragons. People who like them all have Oedipus complexes...

Bro, dragons aren't that bad. It's only when someone goes and fills their conworld with them, or use the extremely stereotypical treasure-hoarding princess-kidnapping dragons, or ffs human(oid)s that transform into dragons *facepalm* or have dragon riders and shit that it's actually lame.

More on topic, I've never seen a conworld where the person actually says point blank something like "btw this shits about to blow your mind", but I have seen plenty of conworlds where if they'd dropped acid and written it all down they would have something almost as fucked up.

As for jaela and D&D...I've never played, I never will.

[Qaar]

Jaela was designed because every D&D player is a closet pedophile.

What the hell is a jaela?

I second that

And it's better than being one of those people who likes dragons. People who like them all have Oedipus complexes...

That's not nice =/

[Qaar]

If that turns you off, what turns you on?

That is a terrible question.

Terrible indeed >_>

[Avjunza]

I think it's a hilarious question.