s'Illaent - A Featural Script [Updated Sept 9!]

Discussions about constructed worlds, cultures and any topics related to constructed societies.
User avatar
Ilaeriu
sinic
sinic
Posts: 233
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 02:42
Location: Canada, eh?

s'Illaent - A Featural Script [Updated Sept 9!]

Post by Ilaeriu »

I've been working on an extensive and irregular syllabary over the past month or so for my conlang Aentoui. However, yesterday I had a whim to make a featural script for it.

This is still a work in progress. I happily accept any praise, criticism, full-blown rants, monetary gifts or suggestions.

Background/Basic Info
Aesthetically, I wanted it to look very curvy and flowy. Naturally Tengwar was one of the inspirations, but I don't think s'Illaent looks too much like Tengwar at all.

I started by arranging my phonemes into a neat table. If you look below, you'll notice that quite a few of the phonemes are in incorrect or odd positions, but that's just to make them all fit evenly, so please don't bag on me for that.

History
Erm... Not much history for it yet. All I know is that a person invented this script a century or so before my story will take place, so yeah... I'll fill this out later.

Oh, and also, it's named "Luraesaka s'Illaent", or "Modern Script." Often shortened to "s'Illaent", or "Modern."

Letters
Underneath each character I give the standard romanization, followed by its XSAMPA equivalent.

Image

A dotted consonant marks palatalization, while dotted vowels are doubled/lengthened.
I also have no punctuation yet, but I'm working on that.

Explaining the Featural-ness of it
Basic Structure
As you can see, all characters have some sort of basic circle or semi-circle, and nearly all have some sort of stem. I have yet to come up with in-universe names for them, so for ease of use I'll call the former the core and the latter the stem.

How each letter relates to another
Note that the front column will differ slightly from the other two, usually involving some sort of merging of the middle and back characters for that particular method of articulation.

The stopscan be considered the basic characters for their column. The rest of the characters derive from the stop character in the same location of articulation. (Haha, rhymes. >_>)

Stops can be made into nasals by simply adding a horizontal stroke or bar at the end of the stem.

The approximants replace the long, curved stem of the stop with a short, straight line and move it to the opposite side. The core remains the same.

The fricatives are simply derived by doubling the core stroke.

The open vowels replace the semi-circular core with a full circle. Usually a writer will merge the stem and core of these characters into one, smooth stroke.

Open vowels are made closed vowels by adding a bar, in a similar manner stops are made nasals.

Samples
Here's a sample for version 2: the first line from the Tower of Babel passage. I really like it now, I think it looks much better than v1. Of course, comments/criticism are still greatly appreciated.

Image
Transliteration:
Nun jaigu namaonaannir nauuaka mahal io al atuimunnir akuraka io.

nun jaigu namao-naa-nnir nauuaka mahal io al atu-imun-nnir akuraka io
in beginning REMOTE.PAST-have-CESSATIVE humanity language one and PAST-imun-nnir akuraka io

"In the beginning, man had one language and shared one speech."
or
"In the beginning, the world had one language and a common speech."

For a longer text, here is a rendering of the Pater Noster:
Spoiler:
Image
Last edited by Ilaeriu on 30 Sep 2010 04:04, edited 6 times in total.
Image

(in order of proficiency from greatest to least)
Native :eng: | Fluent :tgl: | Learning :esp: · :kor: · :zho: · :qbc: | Want to learn :lat: · :jpn: · :ara:
User avatar
Ossicone
vice admin
vice admin
Posts: 2909
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 05:20
Location: I've heard it both ways.
Contact:

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Incomplete)

Post by Ossicone »

I like it so far. Usually, I don't enjoy rotated characters, but here I think the aesthetic overrides that.
I know you haven't settle on the vowels and stuff yet, but I would like to see some word/sentence samples. My warning is that individually nice characters don't always make a cohesive and eye-pleasing script. My only suggestion is that simple is usually best.
User avatar
Sankon
sinic
sinic
Posts: 357
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 02:06
Location: At the computer

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Incomplete)

Post by Sankon »

You could just place a dot in the middle of the characters for palatalization:

Image
masako
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1813
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 16:42

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Incomplete)

Post by masako »

Samples/examples please.
g

o

n

e
User avatar
CMunk
greek
greek
Posts: 509
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 15:47
Location: Denmark
Contact:

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Incomplete)

Post by CMunk »

Sankon wrote:You could just place a dot in the middle of the characters for palatalization
I was just thinking that
Native: :dan: | Fluent: :uk: | Less than fluent: :deu:, :jpn:, :epo: | Beginner: Image, :fao:, :non:
Creating: :con:Jwar Nong, :con:Mhmmz
User avatar
Ilaeriu
sinic
sinic
Posts: 233
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 02:42
Location: Canada, eh?

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Incomplete)

Post by Ilaeriu »

So I've settled on a new batch of characters. I've replaced half of the consonants with these new characters, and use the original characters to make up the new vowel set. I have a symbol for every phoneme now, so technically it's complete. It is still, however, a work-in-progress. I'm not overwhelmingly happy for all the character shapes, nor how some of the horizontal strokes look when next to each other, etc., so I'll be tweaking it every now and then.

@Ossicone: Thanks! Same here, especially since it can be confusing for readers. I tried to minimize the mirroring here. And I agree, simplicity is beauty.

@Sankon: Good idea! I was playing around with dots/lines over and under the characters, but I just didn't like how it looked. I never thought to put it inside the circle lol. Thanks, I'm using that idea :D

@Sano and Ossicone: I'm editing a sample sentence into the OP now.

Also, does anyone think that 't' and 'a' look too similar?
Image

(in order of proficiency from greatest to least)
Native :eng: | Fluent :tgl: | Learning :esp: · :kor: · :zho: · :qbc: | Want to learn :lat: · :jpn: · :ara:
User avatar
Micamo
MVP
MVP
Posts: 5671
Joined: 05 Sep 2010 19:48
Contact:

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Incomplete)

Post by Micamo »

Ilaeriu wrote:Also, does anyone think that 't' and 'a' look too similar?
In careful writing not really, but you also have to remember scripts will be written by actual people. If the person writing it is in a hurry I can see t and a getting mixed up very easily.

As for the script itself it's a bit of a mess: Too much repetitive use of the central circle as an element.
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

My shitty twitter
User avatar
Ossicone
vice admin
vice admin
Posts: 2909
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 05:20
Location: I've heard it both ways.
Contact:

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Incomplete)

Post by Ossicone »

Micamo wrote:
Ilaeriu wrote:Also, does anyone think that 't' and 'a' look too similar?
In careful writing not really, but you also have to remember scripts will be written by actual people. If the person writing it is in a hurry I can see t and a getting mixed up very easily.

As for the script itself it's a bit of a mess: Too much repetitive use of the central circle as an element.
Agreed. Perhaps instead of the central circle fo the vowels a solid dot could be used. That way it'll be clearer and less repetitive.
User avatar
Ossicone
vice admin
vice admin
Posts: 2909
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 05:20
Location: I've heard it both ways.
Contact:

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Incomplete)

Post by Ossicone »

Also, maybe the lower part of /n/ could be shorter than the top and the lower part of /ŋ/ could be longer. Same for the top of /n/ and the top of /m/. This also serves to disambiguate the characters and create some vertical intrigue.

I'm not sure if I'm sold on the bars merging. I think it'll get very busy and unclear.
User avatar
Ilaeriu
sinic
sinic
Posts: 233
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 02:42
Location: Canada, eh?

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Incomplete)

Post by Ilaeriu »

Actually, the circles were what I liked most about this script. Although looking back it does seem like overkill.

@Micamo: Good point. I think I'll remove the circle in 't' altogether, making it one smooth stroke. That will also remove one of the circle characters.

@Ossicone: Exactly what do you mean by a solid dot? As in simply fill the space with black?
Also a bit confused about the bit with the nasals. Like sort of squash /n/ so it's shorter and then lengthen /m/ and /N/?

Or, what do you guys think about leave the circles open? For example, that'll leave /ei/ looking somewhat like a C. I'll try it and see how it comes out.
Image

(in order of proficiency from greatest to least)
Native :eng: | Fluent :tgl: | Learning :esp: · :kor: · :zho: · :qbc: | Want to learn :lat: · :jpn: · :ara:
User avatar
Micamo
MVP
MVP
Posts: 5671
Joined: 05 Sep 2010 19:48
Contact:

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Incomplete)

Post by Micamo »

Another important thing: What tool did you intend this script to be written with? This is very important for your conscript's design: Chinese, for example, was originally designed to be written with a calligraphic brush. You can even see how the popular styles of writing our own alphabet have changed as the available writing tools have changed.
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

My shitty twitter
User avatar
Ilaeriu
sinic
sinic
Posts: 233
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 02:42
Location: Canada, eh?

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Incomplete)

Post by Ilaeriu »

Horse-tail brushes. (Oddly specific, I know. :D)

You know, now that you mention it, I think I might have some of the strokes wrong then. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I remember that it's hard to write in a backwards (that is, right-to-left) direction with those pens, right? That's why the o's and such in medieval manuscripts (as well as the circles in my script) are not exactly circles, they're actually two strokes.
I made the circles with that in mind, but I'm trying to think now if the "back" column stems would be hard/impossible to write with such instruments. Would brushes be able to write in that direction?
Image

(in order of proficiency from greatest to least)
Native :eng: | Fluent :tgl: | Learning :esp: · :kor: · :zho: · :qbc: | Want to learn :lat: · :jpn: · :ara:
User avatar
Ossicone
vice admin
vice admin
Posts: 2909
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 05:20
Location: I've heard it both ways.
Contact:

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Incomplete)

Post by Ossicone »

Ilaeriu wrote:Actually, the circles were what I liked most about this script. Although looking back it does seem like overkill.

@Micamo: Good point. I think I'll remove the circle in 't' altogether, making it one smooth stroke. That will also remove one of the circle characters.
After further thought I was going to suggest removing the circles from the middle group too.They're a pain to write too.
Ilaeriu wrote:@Ossicone: Exactly what do you mean by a solid dot? As in simply fill the space with black?
Also a bit confused about the bit with the nasals. Like sort of squash /n/ so it's shorter and then lengthen /m/ and /N/?
Yes, that's what I meant. But when I was trying to draw a picture for you it didn't turn out well. So I change my mind. As for the dot see pics below.

Also, here's what I ended up with after trying to write your script quickly. It's the first 3 words of your sample. The n really ended up more like a backwards ʃ. Feel free to completely disregard this.

Image

Image
User avatar
Micamo
MVP
MVP
Posts: 5671
Joined: 05 Sep 2010 19:48
Contact:

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Work in Progress)

Post by Micamo »

Ooh, ossicone did a good job simplifying your script.

As for the brushes... I don't really know much about that :p

This may be hard for you to do but if at all possible, get the tool you expect your conpeople to write with and practice trying to write your script quickly with it. The relevant information will become apparent to you in no time.
My pronouns are <xe> [ziː] / <xym> [zɪm] / <xys> [zɪz]

My shitty twitter
User avatar
Ilaeriu
sinic
sinic
Posts: 233
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 02:42
Location: Canada, eh?

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Work in Progress)

Post by Ilaeriu »

I really like it also! Thanks! I especially like how the circles became spirals again. That's how it originally came out when I did it on paper, but I thought it would look nicer as circles. Now I realize it was better as those open spirals :D

I'm not too sure about those dots, though. They seem like they could get quickly lost, both in reading and writing.

I like how the n turned out, actually. I wanted to do that for t, as I mentioned.

Overall, it looks very nice. And I know you did it quickly, but the sizing and line seems a bit non-uniform, while I liked the script's original uniformity. I know that writing a script over and over quickly is a good way to simplify characters, though.
And I think it would work with these calligraphy brushes, wouldn't they?

By the way, what program did you use? Inkscape?

Anyway, I'll edit the font tomorrow. It's getting a bit late and I have school tomorrow. I haven't even started my math homework. Oh the joys of Mondays. >_<
Image

(in order of proficiency from greatest to least)
Native :eng: | Fluent :tgl: | Learning :esp: · :kor: · :zho: · :qbc: | Want to learn :lat: · :jpn: · :ara:
User avatar
Ossicone
vice admin
vice admin
Posts: 2909
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 05:20
Location: I've heard it both ways.
Contact:

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Work in Progress)

Post by Ossicone »

Ilaeriu wrote:I really like it also! Thanks! I especially like how the circles became spirals again. That's how it originally came out when I did it on paper, but I thought it would look nicer as circles. Now I realize it was better as those open spirals :D

I'm not too sure about those dots, though. They seem like they could get quickly lost, both in reading and writing.

I like how the n turned out, actually. I wanted to do that for t, as I mentioned.

Overall, it looks very nice. And I know you did it quickly, but the sizing and line seems a bit non-uniform, while I liked the script's original uniformity. I know that writing a script over and over quickly is a good way to simplify characters, though.
And I think it would work with these calligraphy brushes, wouldn't they?

By the way, what program did you use? Inkscape?

Anyway, I'll edit the font tomorrow. It's getting a bit late and I have school tomorrow. I haven't even started my math homework. Oh the joys of Mondays. >_<
1. Yeah, sizing and line is not my thing. Not even in my normal handwriting.

2. I used inkscape because I find it fun using the ink pen tool.

3. Go do your homework!
masako
mayan
mayan
Posts: 1813
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 16:42

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Work in Progress)

Post by masako »

Ossicone, your skills are indeed enviable.
g

o

n

e
User avatar
Ilaeriu
sinic
sinic
Posts: 233
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 02:42
Location: Canada, eh?

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script (Work in Progress)

Post by Ilaeriu »

@Ossicone:
1. Don't worry, my normal handwriting is barely legible too :D.
2. There's an ink pen tool? *facepalm* I wish I knew that before meticulously making these characters from curved lines. Thanks lol.
3. Okay, okay, I'll do it! :P

@Sano: Quite.
Image

(in order of proficiency from greatest to least)
Native :eng: | Fluent :tgl: | Learning :esp: · :kor: · :zho: · :qbc: | Want to learn :lat: · :jpn: · :ara:
User avatar
Ilaeriu
sinic
sinic
Posts: 233
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 02:42
Location: Canada, eh?

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script [Updated Sept 9!]

Post by Ilaeriu »

I've updated the script. One major change is that front characters and middle characters have switched. Also, there was room for ambiguity between /a/ and /b/ (then /t/) and /@/ and /m/ (then /n/). Thus, I changed the characters for /b/ and /m/ to something less ambiguous but still hopefully keeping with the style and function of the script. I've also redone all the characters in Inkscape with the calligraphy tool, that I found thanks to Ossicone :D Finally, the circles were made into open spiral-esque shapes and all slants were made parallel, which I think improves the overall look.

Please, comments and criticism are always welcome :D
Image

(in order of proficiency from greatest to least)
Native :eng: | Fluent :tgl: | Learning :esp: · :kor: · :zho: · :qbc: | Want to learn :lat: · :jpn: · :ara:
User avatar
Ossicone
vice admin
vice admin
Posts: 2909
Joined: 12 Aug 2010 05:20
Location: I've heard it both ways.
Contact:

Re: s'Illaent - A Featural Script [Updated Sept 9!]

Post by Ossicone »

It looks much nicer as a whole now!

The center dots seem to get a bit lost though. Maybe make them bigger, or change it to a slash like ø ?

'a' seems to be a pretty common maybe leave it as an open circle like 's' now but with a dot or slash? Because it is so common, the double tails can look repetitious. (I know there's a pattern, but I think frequency would play a bigger role.)

However, looking at it now, I can truly believe people can read that without much ambiguity. And that they can write it easily.
Post Reply