Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Discussions about constructed worlds, cultures and any topics related to constructed societies.
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Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Khemehekis »

Linguifex wrote: 06 Dec 2020 13:26 It is a…I guess at its core it's a platformer or obstacle-course game?…that was designed so that failure was fun.
Interesting. Indie developer? I haven't played video games in over two decades, so I don't know much about the contemporary ones.
Linguifex wrote:
Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:43
Linguifex wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:26So Proto-Taltic was devised when a user on the ZBB got a wonderful gleb phonology where vowels outnumbered consonants two-to-one. The only consonants were /t k kʷ s l/ (well, sort of; the allophony rules inadvertently phonemicized a sixth phoneme, /tʷʲ/); other than that, you had your basic ten-vowel system. Grammar-wise, PTa is highly synthetic and basically exclusively prefixing.
Amazing backstory! Xavante has an equal number of vowels and consonants. If you count the long vowels and diphthongs as separate phonemes, Hawaiian's even Taltickier than Proto-Taltic, though.
Ah, PTa only had the monophthongs. Any "diphthongs" are sequences of unit vowels in hiatus.
I knew Proto-Taltic didn't have diphthongs. I just meant Hawaiian outfoes Proto-Taltic at having a high vowel-to-consonant ratio.
Linguifex wrote:
Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:43
Linguifex wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:26There was also inalienable possession. Body parts were inalienably possessed, as were the following:

*kɤs "basket"
*tu "home(town)"
*ɯitʲ "soul"
*kitʲʷ "tunic, shirt"
*kʷɔtɔɛtʲ "property, premises"
*ke "voice"
*kulsɯkʷ "meal"
*leɕakʷ "grave"
*ɔɯs "birth"
*ɔkɤlɔ "death"
Beautiful! I was surprised to see "basket" was inalienable. There must be some cultural story behind that. Were the Proto-Talts a people who always walked around with fruit baskets on their heads, perhaps?
I am not sure yet, though that would make sense. Coming from a very mountainous region as they do I could see it.
Cool! [B)] It'll just take a little more work on the conculture to figure this out.
Linguifex wrote:
Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:43 Always nice to find something that works and make things "click" like a functioning seatbelt. And I've had a lot of fun these past few minutes saying "Ítöð" over and over to myself. It's like Almea or Yeola -- a whole world!
Seeing this was extremely gratifying. Thank you.
You're welcome!
Linguifex wrote: OK, so having run things through Shagomir's Planet Calculator:
This?

https://www.reddit.com/r/worldbuilding/ ... formation/

I think I could use that!
Linguifex wrote:- A day on Ítöð is a bit over 26 hours long (the solar day is 26.12 hours; the sidereal day, 26.02).
- A local year is 253.1 local days, or almost 275.5 Earth days.
- Radius and mass are both ~102% that of Earth. Density is 96%; gravity, 98%.
- There's two moons. The inner moon is about 390'000 km from the planet and orbits in 28.12 local days. The outer moon is some 692'000 km from the planet and it orbits in 65.62 local days. This essentially works out to a stable 3:7 resonance, if I read Wikipedia correctly.
- SolStation reports a variability of 10.137 Earth days (or about 9.35 days on Ítöð).
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Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by Khemehekis »

Linguifex wrote: 10 Dec 2020 06:01 sëtó 'zơdo-fruit' > isotó 'zơdo-fruits'
The word zơdo reminds me of zuqo. A zuqo is a Hapoish fruit; it has a hard, spiky peel, like a pineapple or a durian.
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Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

I should probably write some about CT measure words.

I want CT to have a rich supply of measure words. These will in some descendants turn into a classifier or noun-class system. Notably they all end in a nasal n which assimilates to a following consonant. This list will probably be expanded later as I get ideas for them.

átsn – people as resources (e.g. troops, staff, aides, volunteers, assistants, organizational members); livestock, agricultural animals
ðín – arms, weapons one person can operate
ðukn – servings of foodstuffs that include meat as an ingredient
ekhín – bodily functions/actions, body parts
érn – ordnance, weapons that take multiple people to operate
ësín – musical instruments
gén – people (generally)
gîn – potable liquids, drinks, beverages
gugn – stories, songs, recitals, debates, artistic or rhetorical performances
ĝen – wide objects
ĝïsn – buildings, divisions of buildings, rooms, architectural elements
héon – lights, radiation sources
hikn – cities, regions, areas, nations, geopolitical entities
ían – yellow plants
itłon – government officials, religious leaders, celebrities
în – works of art (except statues of persons)
îsn – events, occurrences, dates, schedules, routine happenings
kaln – freshwater fish
katn – agricultural or earthworking tools
kôn – violent acts; flaws, defects
lárn – containers, vessels
lën – miscellaneous, general, not otherwise specified
łên – construction tools
łíln – insects, parasites, shellfish
nekn – statues of persons
nôg – long objects
on – saltwater fish
sîrn – clouds, birds, celestial objects
tatsn – articles of clothing
ugn – black plants
ûrn – documents

kihê kôĝ kiĝgô ðáraʕ ü
six MW.violence theft serious DEF
'the six great thefts'

----

So here's the tentative layout of the system:

0 AU – Xi Boötis A
0.45 AU – Planet one (ersatz Mercury?)
0.8 AU – Ítöð
1.14 AU – Planet three (kind of a Mars-like planet)
1.8 AU – Asteroid belt
3.2 AU – Icy planet

Why no gas giants? Because they orbit Xi Boötis B; per SolStation it has at least one companion in a torch orbit. This is actually relevant to and important for my purposes—such a planet could be a candidate for a helium planet, which would provide a fantastic source of helium-3. This drives the plot in that whoever can get there first and keep control of it would have a monopoly on the helium-3 supply. Xi Boötis B gets reasonably close at its periapsis (supposedly about 16.5 AU, a little closer than Uranus), and in any event reaching it at its apoapsis (50.7 AU, a little farther out than Pluto gets) isn't too terrible with atomic rockets.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

I actually think I'm going to switch up the last two entries in the planet list…3.2 AU is pretty close to the maximum stable orbital distance around Xi Boo A, per the august Dr. Wik E. Pedia, so I figure it makes sense that maybe nothing got big enough to clear the neighborhood. Also there's evidence of such a belt around Xi Boo A and I figure I might as well put one there. Would make sense to mine for volatiles and generally have some fun with rockets there.

0 AU – Xi Boötis A
0.45 AU – Planet one (ersatz Mercury?)
0.8 AU – Ítöð
1.14 AU – Planet three (kind of a Mars-like planet)
1.8 AU – Planet four (depressing ice ball)
3.2 AU – Asteroid belt

As for Xi Boo B…

0 AU – Xi Boötis B
0.04 AU – Náiráð
? – Other gas planet with an oxygenated moon used as a refining base, probably in a weird orbit

Náiráð is the helium planet, in-universe named after a deity in the pantheon of the Patchwork States (god of destruction, heat, and fire, later shoehorned into rocketeering), out-of-universe named after Winchell "Nyrath" Chung, creator of Atomic Rockets. I figured it a good a name as any, and might as well give the guy a shout-out since I made such extensive use of his work in doing the background work on all this. In-story its significance lies in the fact that it's a wonderful source of helium-3, far better than any of the balls of rock that orbit the A star. All the hydrogen got blown off so there's less filtering to do.

The downside is, the blasted planet is in a torch orbit (the period is a couple hours short of four Earth days), which makes things somewhat difficult logistically speaking. To say it's hot is an understatement. I surmise that the actual hot spot on the planet isn't dead center but offset somewhat; I seem to recall there's at least one similar exoplanet. It's pretty much all whites and grays, except the eye of the mega-hurricane on the day side is a deep jet black. I don't know whether or not it'd be hot enough for the night side to glow. To get there from the second planet's moon, you have to bleed off a lot of energy to get in close enough, which is somewhat of a downer. But hey, energy monopoly.

As for the second planet, I'm guessing it'll be in a weird orbit thanks to the migration of Náiráð. Not exactly sure what that'll look like as of yet.

----

Tim Ar bladeships (nketegru ar, from nke 'type of bladed weapon' + tegru 'ship, vessel', so named because they cut through space like a knife) are multipurpose in nature, but the most important use case is that they're designed to be able to quickly shuttle people and cargo to and from Náiráð. To that end, they use Zubrin's nuclear salt water engines (NSWRs). If they blew off everything in an epic blaze of glory they could get up to one or two percent lightspeed, though that would be idiotic.

As it stands, they're torchships. The relevant uranium is blown out the back of the ship at well above escape velocity so they don't have to worry about it hanging around and poisoning the system.

Bladeships have several things going for them:
- You don't dare attack one in orbit (either from another in-orbit ship or from a terrestrial source) because the propulsion system is just as likely to ruin your day as it is the ship's if the engine is damaged, and in any case they're armed to the teeth themselves. Not that it's strictly-speaking necessary, as if the business end is pointed at you you're likely to suffer existence failure if they so much as burp the engines.
- Notwithstanding the uranium or plutonium required to power the thing, you can use your basic water as the reaction mass.
- High specific impulse and high thrust. Launch windows? Where we're going, we don't need launch windows. And you can get there in style, accelerating—in the scientific sense of the word—all the way, except for the brief skew flip in the middle.
- Mass budgets aren't as much of a concern, and you can shuffle along with large payloads and/or many personnel.
- If nothing else, they're impressive and terrifying. Only the Tim Ar have them, and woe betide you if you forget it.

Bladeship names tend to be overly grandiose, anthropomorphized, and (at least in theory) badass, though whoever names the ships tries too hard. Translations include:
- My Footprint Is Destruction
- I Lay Waste to Continents
- My Voice Brings Ruin
- I See All
- The Moons Are My Respite
- I Bring Light to Worlds
- The Wind Is My Brother
- In My Shadow is Terror
- I Extinguish Nations
- Lightning Obeys Me
- Mountains Burn Beneath Me
- In My Reflection Is Death
- The Night Fears Me
- Submit to Me and Live
- I Give No Quarter
- The World Disappoints Me
- I Cause Mass Extinctions
- Attack Me and Die
- I Spread Fire Between the Stars
- On My Shoulders Is Civilization
- Provoke Me Not
- I Command the Meteor
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

I was typesetting some stuff set in Twin Aster for a creative exercise given me by my mentor, and I discovered the font's character support is lacking (I really, really like the TT Marxiana family in a two-column setup. It's super neat), so I have decided to redo the romanization of CT (as it's the language that will primarily be encountered in my work, I suspect) as follows:

/m n ŋ/ m n ĝ
/t k/ t k
/θ s ɬ x h/ ð s ł ḫ h
/ɹ l ʕ/ r l g

Vowels are the same as before.

Some nketeḫru ar names in the original:

Ágeuḫtúðtáḫkitléiłĝ'us
áge uḫtúð táḫkitl éił n ĝus
COP destroy footprint within GEN 1SG
'In My Footprint Is Destruction'

Nïḫtíðííhrĝus
nïḫtíðí /hír ĝus
sack land/PL 1SG
'I Lay Waste to Continents'

Laghárïsakarésámanüĝ'us
laghá rïsakaré sáman ü n ĝus
cause.VBLZ disaster.area voice DEF GEN 1SG
'My Voice Brings Ruin'

Genrmrłámûsĝus
genr mr łá mûs ĝus
observe all.DIST and.N all.PROX 1SG
'I See All'

Ágeðénrüĝ'uséĝtisłámïsteḫ
áge ðénr ü n ĝus Éĝtis łá Mïsteḫ
COP rest DEF GEN 1SG larger.moon and.N smaller.moon
'The Moons Are My Respite'

Lagháikmĝusítöðséḫar
laghá ikm ĝus ítöð séḫ ar
cause.VBLZ daylight 1SG world for PL
'I Bring Light to Worlds'

Ágehöĝ'usḫuúü
áge hö n ĝus ḫuú ü
COP brother GEN 1SG wind DEF
'The Wind Is My Brother' (The missing ü there is not a typo; this moniker suggests there may be brothers other than the wind as well)

Ágeáłiikránéiłüĝ'us
áge áłi ikrán éił ü n ĝus
COP terror shadow within DEF GEN 1SG
'In My Shadow Is Terror'

Mértakontákĝus
mértak /noták ĝus
cull country/PL 1SG
'I Extinguish Nations'

Hétrágĝusïlaĝüar
hétrág ĝus ïlaĝ ü ar
obey 1SG lightning DEF PL
'Lightning Obeys Me'

Intëĝ'sekáhrakĝusgú
intëĝ ĝsek /hárak ĝus gú
RFLX burn mountain/PL 1SG under
'Mountains Burn Beneath Me'

Ágenáaḫlteĝtaðéiłüĝ'us
áge náaḫl teĝtað éił ü n ĝus
COP kill reflect.image within DEF GEN 1SG
'In My Reflection Is Death'

Téhráłiḫiłámĝushaekáhnü
téhr áłi ḫiłám ĝus hae káhn ü
feel.emotion fear come.from.ATEL 1SG REL night DEF
'The Night Fears Me'

Taĝkeiĝusöðtöhír
taĝkei ĝus öð töhír
submit.to 1SG and.V survive
'Submit to Me and Live'

Níirahðálsëosréamĝus
níir /haðál sëos réam
accept person.NMLZ surrender none.MED 1SG
'I Give No Quarter'

Trmaĝtéĝ'usítöðü
tr maĝtéĝ ĝus ítöð ü
cause.state.VBLZ disappointment 1SG world DEF
'The World Disappoints Me'

Trtiúlóðharmûsĝus
tr tiúl /ðóhar mûs ĝus
cause.state.VBLZ null species/PL all.PROX 1SG
'I Cause Mass Extinctions'

Háḫáðĝusöðsihtí
háḫáð ĝus öð sihtí
lash.out.at 1SG and.V die
'Attack Me and Die' (this wouldn't be understood as 'I attack and die' because háḫáð kind of forces the first argument to be parsed as an object)

Sôłĝtekĝusutihénsïrsîü
sôł ĝtek ĝus /tühén sïrsî ü
spread fire 1SG star/PL among DEF
'I Spread Fire Between the Stars'

Ágeúhtrkehsélüekmárlüĝ'us
áge úh tr kehsél ü /kemár l ü n ĝus
COP PASS cause.state.VBLZ proper DEF shoulder/PL on DEF GEN 1SG
'On My Shoulders Is Civilization'

Ðênkoĝusr
ðênko ĝus r
agitate 1SG NEG
'Provoke Me Not' (kind of playing with the syntax a bit; it would have the sense of 'provoke not me', but this is done to emphasize that ĝus is not the subject)

Tiḫkóramsnáĝus
tiḫkór /masná ĝus
command shooting.star/PL 1SG
'I Command the Meteor' (actually kind of a double-meaning here, as masná also means 'bullet', 'missile', or 'projectile')
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by Creyeditor »

Wow, these are some badass names. Are all their names like that?
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Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by eldin raigmore »

Creyeditor wrote: 25 Jan 2021 13:53 Wow, these are some badass names. Are all their names like that?
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Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

eldin raigmore wrote: 25 Jan 2021 15:20
Creyeditor wrote: 25 Jan 2021 13:53Wow, these are some badass names. Are all their names like that?
[+1]
Frequently, yes. Personal names native to CT tend to be nominalized sentences and have a bias towards the grandiose, e.g. Éðenḫuúühé:

Éðenḫuúühé
éðen ḫuú ü hé
drive wind DEF 3SG
'he rides the wind'

The major difference is that personal names tend to use the third-person pronoun in them; it is extremely rare for a personal name to use the first-person ĝus.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

So basically what happened with the plurals was, back in the day there was this pluralizing particle *aɹ in PTO. As a function word, it eroded into something like *ɐɹ or *əɹ and ended up having some sort of sandhi effect on the following initials when it was of shape CV-. Basically:

aɹ#CV → ə=CV (maybe via → V=CV?) → #VC

----

I was typesetting my CT grammar doc in LaTeX today and I noticed something about the plurals. It makes me want to make Eastern and Central CT a clade where initial high vowels delete except before CC. Why? Because this:

tük 'heap' ~ utiktük ~ tik
tël 'field of study' ~ itoltël ~ tol
ḫêł 'mess' ~ iḫółḫêł ~ ḫół
kïrï 'child' ~ ikurikïrï ~ kuri

This causes the vowel alternation to be the sole arbiter of whether or not it's plural.

Eastern Tim Ar also has the quirk of labializing velars before rounded vowels and then simplifying the hybrid vowels, so we'd get alternations like kuru ~ puru and ḫół ~ fół.

----

So, redoing changes to Central Tim Ar in light of this:

[- cons + hi] → Ø / #_ ! _CC unless it's _NC in which case NC assimilates and becomes a prenasalized stop
æ → a
h → s / E_
h → f / B_
h → Ø
m n ŋ → mb nd ŋg / _{a,ʕ}
ʕ → ŋ / _%
ʕ → Ø / [+ cons + vc]_, _[+ cons + vc]
ʕ → h
ɤ ɯ → o u
d g → z ɣ / V_
{zɹ,ɹz,ɮɹ,ɹɮ} {zl,lz,ɮl,lɮ} → ɹː lː
t d → ts dz / _E
ai ay au → e ø o
a → Ø / _V
i y u → ts tf f / _V
á é ǿ í ý ó ú → ɨ i̯a i̯a i̯e i̯ø u̯a u̯o
ɣVɣ → ɣV
F → Ø / _#
ɬ ɮ → ʃ l
θ ð → s ɹ
{ɹ,l} → ʃ / _#
ei øy ou → e ø o
N → Ø / _F
V → Ø / Vɣ_
sts zdz → st zd vel. sim.

So Tim Ar /tìm àɹ/ becomes [tsimbaʃ] Tzimbach. Let's see some other words…

mkíḫ [m̩gíx] 'group of provinces' → [ŋ̩gi̯e] ngie
hagm [haʕm̩] 'region' → [ahm̩] ahm
kǽmr [kámɹ̩] 'city' → [kɨmʃ] câmch
iteĝ [ìdèŋ] 'table' → [tseŋ] tzeng
haðál [hàðál] 'person' → [azɨʃ] azâch
kuasa [kùàzà] 'landmark' → [kfz] cfaza
síkna [sígnà] 'white' → [si̯ei̯nda] sieinda
hún [hún] 'black' → [u̯on] uon
kiĝ [kìŋ] 'red' → [kiŋ] quing
ténḫo nihít [ténɣò nìhít] 'ninety' → [tsi̯ai̯nisi̯et] tziainisiet
ténḫo [ténɣò] 'one hundred' → [tsi̯ai̯] tziai
ténḫo kahál [ténɣò kàhál] 'one hundred ten' → [tsi̯ai̯ɨʃ] tziaiâch (ooh, I really like this)
kátgïn [kádʕɯ̀n] 'wallet, purse' → [kɨzun] câzun
îĝté [ɯ́ŋdé] 'snack, light meal' → [ndzi̯a] ndzia
naá [nàá] 'bread' → [ndɨ] ndâ
höhsë [hø̀hsɤ̀] 'four' → [øsso] œsso
uḫtúð [ùxtúθ] 'destroy' → [stu̯o] stuo
kólïs [kólɯ̀s] 'copper' → [ku̯alu] qualu
gákłi [ʕákɬì] 'silver' → [hɨkɬi] hâcchi
ûn [ýn] 'gold' → [i̯œn] iœn
łeðáĝ [ɬèðǽŋ] 'be in front of' → [ʃeɹɨŋ] cherâng
hatraák [hàdɹàák] 'distend' → [aɹːɨk] arrâc
kîtren [kɯ́dɹèn] 'report to' → [ku̯oɹːen] quorren
uhḫa [ùhxà] 'tie up, bind, fasten' → [xa] gha
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Let's try some changes to Eastern Tim Ar, shall we?

[- cons + hi] → Ø / #_
V → Ø / [+ same V](C)_# (tone not important for this rule)
ŋ k g x ɣ → m p b f v / _{y,ø,u,o}
y ø ɯ ɤ → i e u o
æ → e
{θ,ð} → j
ʕ → Ø / V_
ʕ → j
VjV → Vj for same V, with contour assimilation
VV → V for same V, with contour assimilation
C̩ → Ce (takes the same tone as the preceding vowel in the word, if any; otherwise goes to low tone)
V(h) → Ø / _V
ks kɬ → st st
Nasal assimilation to following obstruents, otherwise homorganic stop insertion
{p,b} {t,d} {k,g} → w j ʕ / V_%
e…e i…i a…a o…o u…u → je…e je…i ʕa…a wo…o wo…u
s z ɬ ɮ → ʃ ʒ s z
Final high syllable attracts stress, otherwise stress the penult where it exists, then dump tones
i u → je jo / _{x,ɣ,ŋ}
{x,ɣ} → Ø / _%
e o i u → a a e o / _ʕ, ʕ_
kj gj → ʃ ʒ
Stressed in the penult:
a e o → aj ej oj / _…e
a e o → aw ew ow / _…o
e o → i u / posttonic ultima
ij aʕ uw → je ʕa wo /
{ɹ,l} → j / _#
ʕ → Ø / _V{w,j}
ʕC → Cː
C → Ø / _ʕ
h → Ø / #_Vj
h → j / #_
V → Ø / before same V unless this would delete the stressed vowel, in which case delete the unstressed one instead
t d k g → s z ʃ ʒ / _{j,i}

mkíḫ [m̩gíx] 'group of provinces' → [miˈʒe] migié
hagm [haʕm̩] 'region' → [ˈajmi] ájmi
Tim Ar [tìm àɹ] → [ˈsjama] Sjáma
kámr [kǽmɹ̩] 'city' → [ʃimˈbɹe] cimbré
síkna [sígnà] 'white' → [ˈʃenna] ciénna
hún [hún] 'black' → [jun] jun
kiĝ [kìŋ] 'red' → [ʃeŋ] cieng
ténḫo nihít [ténɣò nìhít] 'ninety' → [simvoˈnje] simvonjé
ténḫo [ténɣò] 'one hundred' → [ˈtemvu] témvu
ténḫo kahál [ténɣò kàhál] 'one hundred ten' → [sjamˈva] sjamvá
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Man in Space
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Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

I think I have some decent changes to Western Tim Ar:

m → w
m̩ n̩ ŋ̩ ɹ̩ l̩ → u a i e o
Nasal assimilation
θ ð → f v
ɹ l → s ɬ / _#
æ → je
n t d s z ɬ ɮ ɹ l → ɲ tʲ dʲ ʃ ʒ ɬʲ ɮʲ j ʎ / _{e,i}
h → ʃ / _E
ø y → e i
ɤ ɯ → ə ɨ
t tʲ d dʲ → ts tʃ dz dʒ / _{i,ɨ,u}
i ɨ u → e ə o / #(C)_(C)(C)a
i…i ɨ…ɨ u…u → i…je ɨ…jə u…jo
{xt,kt} → ks
hV → Ø / _…V
h → Ø
penult deletion in trisyllables+
i ɨ u → ja ja wa / [- cons + hi]…_
{ew,əw} {iw,ɨw} → ow uw
Initial high vowels add their tone to the second syllable, then delete
Same V, different tone → contour tone
{x,ɣ} → w / _%
ɬʲ ɮʲ → ʃ ʒ
a…a → a…e
x ɣ → k g / _V
e…o ə…o → e…we ə…wə / _(C)#
i ɨ u → e ə o / ʕ_, _ʕ
ʕ → j

mkíḫ [m̩gíx] 'group of provinces' → [gjǎw] gyǎu
hagm [hàʕm̩] 'region' → [jò] jo
Tim Ar [tìm àɹ] → [tʃòwàs] Tšowas
kámr [kǽmɹ̩] 'city' → [kjówè] kyówe
iteĝ [ìdèŋ] 'table' → [dʲèŋ] jeng
haðál [hàðál] 'person' → [váɬ] váł
kuasa [kùàzà] 'landmark' → [kùàzè] kuaze
síkna [sígnà] 'white' → [ʃégnà] šégna
hún [hún] 'black' → [ún] ún
kiĝ [kìŋ] 'red' → [kìŋ] king
ténḫo nihít [ténɣò nìhít] 'ninety' → [tʲéŋgòɲʃjét] céngoñšyét
ténḫo [ténɣò] 'one hundred' → [tʲéŋgwè] céngwe
ténḫo kahál [ténɣò kàhál] 'one hundred ten' → [tʲéŋgòkáɬ] céngokáł
kátgïn [kádʕɯ̀n] 'wallet, purse' → [kádjə̀n] kádyën
îĝté [ɯ́ŋdé] 'snack, light meal' → [ɲdʲé] ñjé
naá [nàá] 'bread' → [nǎ]
höhsë [hø̀hsɤ̀] 'four' → [ʃèsə̀] šesë
uḫtúð [ùxtúθ] 'destroy' → [ksjǒf] ksyǒf
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
User avatar
Man in Space
roman
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Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Think I did some good changes to Proto-Southern Tim Ar…

m̩ n̩ ŋ̩ ɹ̩ l̩ → mə nə ŋə ɹə lə
m n ŋ → b d g
k g → tʃ dʒ / _E
V{x,ɣ,h} → Vː
h → j / #_
{θ,ð} → n
VːV → Vː, tone retracts to previous syllable
C → [+ vc] / V_V
ɣ → j
b d g → β ɹ j / V_V
ə → i / CC_#
ə → Ø
æ → jo
j → Ø / {tʃ,dʒ}_
ɯ ɤ → ə a / a…_
ɯ ɤ → i e / B…_
ɯ ɤ → jə ja
ø y → jaw jew (vel sim.)
jj → dʒ
e i → ja je / _(C)(C)j
Vʕ → Vˀ / _C
ʕV → Vˀ
b d g → β ɹ j / V_V
a (→ ɐj) → oj / a…_
V → Ø / _V
{ɹ,l} → n / _#

mkíḫ [m̩gíx] 'group of provinces' → [bjíː] byíí
hagm [hàʕm̩] 'region' → [hàːˀβ] haaˀv
Tim Ar [tìm àɹ] → [tìβàn] Tivan
kámr [kǽmɹ̩] 'city' → [tʃóbɹí] chóbrí
iteĝ [ìdèŋ] 'table' → [ìɹèg] ireg
haðál [hàðál] 'person' → [jànójn] yanóin
kuasa [kùàzà] 'landmark' → [kàzòj] kazoi
síkna [sígnà] 'white' → [sígdà] sígda
hún [hún] 'black' → [húd] húd
kiĝ [kìŋ] 'red' → [tʃìg] chig
ténḫo nihít [ténɣò nìhít] 'ninety' → [tjádjòɹíːt] tyádyoríít
ténḫo [ténɣò] 'one hundred' → [tjádjò] tyádyo
ténḫo kahál [ténɣò kàhál] 'one hundred ten' → [tjádjòjáːn] tyádyoyáán
kátgïn [kádʕɯ̀n] 'wallet, purse' → [káɹə̀ˀd] kárəˀd
îĝté [ɯ́ŋdé] 'snack, light meal' → [jə́gdé] yә́gdé
naá [nàá] 'bread' → [dój] dói
höhsë [hø̀hsɤ̀] 'four' → [dʒaːwzjòj] yaauzyòi
uḫtúð [ùxtúθ] 'destroy' → [ùːɹún] uurún
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
Khemehekis
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Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by Khemehekis »

Congratulations on your new name, Man in Space!
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 70,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Location: Ohio

Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Khemehekis wrote: 15 Feb 2021 16:46 Congratulations on your new name, Man in Space!
Thank you!

I should start the CT writing system. But to that end I have a question: Hieroglyphics or cuneiform? Maybe one then the other, the cuneiform being simplified hieroglyphs…how does that sound?
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
Khemehekis
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Posts: 2641
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space's conworld megathread)

Post by Khemehekis »

Man in Space wrote: 16 Feb 2021 07:03
Khemehekis wrote: 15 Feb 2021 16:46 Congratulations on your new name, Man in Space!
Thank you!
You're welcome!
I should start the CT writing system. But to that end I have a question: Hieroglyphics or cuneiform? Maybe one then the other, the cuneiform being simplified hieroglyphs…how does that sound?
That sounds like an original idea!
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 70,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
User avatar
Man in Space
roman
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Posts: 998
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 08:07
Location: Ohio

Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Khemehekis wrote: 16 Feb 2021 07:06
Man in Space wrote: 16 Feb 2021 07:03I should start the CT writing system. But to that end I have a question: Hieroglyphics or cuneiform? Maybe one then the other, the cuneiform being simplified hieroglyphs…how does that sound?
That sounds like an original idea!
I'm both looking forward to this and dreading it.

Quick note on CT: Might make a small Northern branch too with the dentals shifting to /x/.

--------

Because it's about time I tackle this: Täptäg.

I want to get to this:

/m m̥ n n̥ ɲ ɲ̊/
/p pʲ pʰ pʲʰ b bʲ b̥ b̥ʲ t tʲ tʰ tʲʰ d dʲ d̥ d̥ʲ c cʰ ɟ ɟ̊ k kʰ g g̊/
/s z ʃ ʒ/
/w j/

/u o ɑ æ e i/

Let's see if we can.

I just randomly came up with two word shapes I like: bhorgeat /b̥oɾɟɑt/ and geuha /ɟuɦɑ/. This in addition to Täptäg /tæptæg/ itself.

I think it'd be amusing if the original language was obligate CV, because I want to get clusters out of it.

m n
p b t d k kʷ g gʷ
s
ɹ

a ɛ e ɪ i ɔ o ʊ u

V → Ø / #_
s → h
i ɪ u ʊ → e ɛ o ɔ / a…_
V → Ø / V{r,m,n}_C
CVR → CʰV / _%
ɹ → n
i u e o → ɪ ʊ ɛ ɔ / _a
p b t d k g kʷ gʷ → ɸ β s ɾ x ɣ xʷ ɣʷ / V_{e,o,i,u}
ɛ ɔ ɪ ʊ → e o i u
Vowel affectation in stressed syllables
- i u → e o / when an a is in the following syllable
- a → æ if conditioned by front vowels, ɑ otherwise
- e…e i…i o…o u…u → depends on the stressed syllable but the outcomes for the stressed syllables are je ji jo ju
T K → Tʲ Ḱ / _{i,j}
{K,Ḱ}ʷ → P
[-vc]V[-vc] [+vc]V[+vc] → [-vc]V[+vc] [+vc]V[-vc] / _V#
Strong syncope: Every second syllable deletes
h → ɦ

I'll probably have to come up with some other changes later to make the spelling system work right…might have velars obligatorily palatalize before front vowels, just preserving the contrast in front of the back vowels? Might have the palatalized labials affricate instead like in Ryukyuan…

*buɹadigiatʊ → buɹdegɪatɔ → b̥uɾegɪatɔ → b̥uɾegiato → b̥uɾeɟato → b̥uɾeɟɑto → b̥uɾɟɑt → b̥oɾɟɑt bhorgjat
*gɪusua → giuhʊa → ɟuhoa → ɟuhoɑ → ɟuɦɑ gjuha
*tapɪtakɛ → tapitake → tæpitæke → tæpitæge → tæptæg Täptäg

So these changes as stated should give something like this:

/m m̥ n n̥ ɲ ɲ̊/ m mh n nh ñ ñh
/p pʰ b b̥ t tʲ tʰ tʲʰ d dʲ d̥ d̥ʲ c cʰ ɟ ɟ̊ k kʰ g g̊/ p ph b bh t tj th tjh d dj dh djh kj kjh gh gjh k kh g gh
/tʃ tʃʰ dʒ d̥ʒ/ č čh j jh
/s ʃ ɦ/ s š h
/ɾ ɾ̥/ r rh
/w j/ v j

/u o ɑ æ e i/ u o a ä e i

/d̥ʲɑngi/ djhangi
/estʲʰuɹi/ estjhuri
/mɑɲ̊æ/ mañhä
/n̥ostʰuɾɑ/ nhosthura
/dʒægɑɲ̊ɟɑn/ jägangjan
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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