Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Discussions about constructed worlds, cultures and any topics related to constructed societies.
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Creyeditor wrote: 30 Apr 2021 11:24The cuneiform looks cool. Was it inspired by qny particular script? Ugaritic, maybe?
Sumerian proper, due to the range of degrees over which the stylus can be angled.

----

I have decided to redo, or am considering redoing, some aspects of CT.

- Changing the romanization of /θ/ from ð to z.
- Changing the romanization of /ɬ/ from ł to ś.
- As it stands now, CT has two plosives, /t k/. I'm thinking of making /t/ be more like /t ~ ɹ ~ n/, with [ɹ] being an allophone that shows up in most environments. This contrasts with true initial /ɹ/, so the /t ɹ/ distinction is maintained only in initial position. (You still might get some surface [t] thanks to loanwords or what have you.)
-- /t/ surfaces as [n] before an instance of /ɹ/ or /l/ (phonetically probably [ndɹ ndl]).
-- A corollary of this: Syllables with /ɬ/ are written using the glyphs for /l/ (CT cuneiform was imported from simplified Khaya glyphs). If I go the mostly-collapsing-/t/-and-/ɹ/ route, I might be able to get away with a defective writing system using only the /ɹ/-glyphs. (And maybe, just maybe, I can write /k/ using the glyphs for /ʕ/- or /x/-syllables? Or is that too defective?)
-- I'm thinking of keeping /t/ in sequences where it precedes an alveolar fricative, and possibly after /n/. Though I might make /nt θt st ɬt/ [ndɹ ðdɹ zdɹ ldɹ], just because.
-- /tk/ [tsk]? I think so.
- Thinking about getting rid of the collaborative voice. It's just too clunky.

The above means that Ítöð is now Íröz. And that Tétomoto would become Téromoro, which I could live with.

----

I'm trying to redo the Patchwork States' language…I have a few bits of where I want to go but I am not entirely sure how to get there. What I want phonologically is:

/m n ɲ/ m n gn
/p b t d k~tʃ g~dʒ/ p b t d c g
/f θ s x h/ f z s ch h
/ɹ l w j/ r l u i

/a aː e eː i iː o oː/ a ā e ē i ī o ō
/aɪ aːɪ aʊ aːʊ oɪ oːɪ eʊ eːʊ/ ae āe au āu oe ōe eu ēu
(please pardon the kludged macrons)

With qu /kw/, x /ks/, and /k g/ > [tʃ dʒ] / _{E,j}.

One thing I might do is fortition of continuants in initial position:
f θ s x h ɹ l w j > pf tθ ts kx ʔh dɹ dl gw dʒj / #_
I'm not 100% sold on this. I don't know whether to employ it wholesale, to exclude /w j/ from it, to limit it to fricatives entirely, or to scrap it.

I also want a Latinate case system with four numbers: Singular, dual, paucal, and plural. The paucal typically means "some", but when employed with the definite article it means "many" or "lots of".

Is it a rip-off of Latin (specifically Ecclesiastical Latin)? Yes, with a bit of Tolkien thrown in. Do I care? No, because in-universe it's a liturgical language.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

So I've been working on the Tim Ar caste system (tël hukú—it's difficult to concisely explain what this means, but roughly 'census-ology'), as you can probably tell by the other thread.

Structure of the Caste System

There are four "levels" of classification. From highest to lowest, they are the méri, the múḫral, the akrár, and the këmêm. That aside, where I've given the different divisions below, I've given them in "prestige" order, most prestigious first. (There is no real difference in prestige among the four levels; everyone has one of each.)

Méri

I translate this as "varna", but it's more racially/ethnically determined than a varna is. There are eight émri:

- Hia: This refers to people descended from the Proto-Tim Ar-O cultural complex. The Tim Ar themselves, of course, are considered primus inter pares, which "equals" include the O, the gPangin, and several other lineages.
- Támrek: If you're Täptäg, you are támrek.
- Kán: Refers to the Caber. There is a long-standing population of Caber in the Tim Ar Empire, descended from refugees, and they're kind of seen as a "younger brother" to the Tim Ar despite being unrelated.
- Konrín: Refers to the people of Gereĝkuólo. Mostly the Irghal, but a few other groups too (such as the Oido).
- Sáĝit: Natives of the Mziddyun and, out of convenience and realpolitik, the Kgáweq'.
- Uiráha: The uiráha people groups are mostly endemic to the Burning Mountains or regions south of them.
- Kia: A wastebasket taxon.
- Uikúa: The primary constituents of the uikúa are peoples who have a bad history with the Tim Ar. This is mainly people who have attempted to or succeeded in conquering the Tim Ar at one point or another.

Four of these terms have their origin in Classical Khaya. Of these, three come from the practice that they liked to classify people according to their numerical bases: Hia are 'people of ten', i.e. the Tim Ar-O cultural complex; kia are 'people of six'; uikúa are 'people of twelve', which include the Khaya. (The modern uses of these words don't imply any particular method of counting.) Uiráha comes from CK wit'a-ha 'mountain people'.

Another three terms are demonyms. Támrek is basically as close as you can get to saying "Täptäg" in CT; kán is a loanword from one of the Mute Caber languages; Sáĝit is borrowed from what the Sengin call themselves, which term itself is an exonym from the Dujajikiswa.

The remaining term, konrín, literally means 'north(ern)', which is where Gereĝkuólo is located.

Múḫral

I translate the term múḫral as 'class'. There are four úmḫral—these are ĝoksík, iĝl, îmrir, and ren. It, however, doesn't make much sense to discuss them without explaining the akrár ar, and this division is probably the most weaksauce/useless of them all. For now, I will list which akrár ar are part of which múḫral:

Ĝôksik – Röz, ïḫ káitén, lerú, ïḫ simní
Iĝl – Sákhazál, oisok, tían, mkói
Îmrir – Halun, śores, kalahíes
Ren – Soś, konér

Akrár

I translate akrár as 'caste'. We aren't quite down to the jati level yet; the akrár ar are sort of supertropes for the jatis. In any case, there are only thirteen akrár ar. I've listed them below with brief (and, in most cases, decidedly not comprehensive) lists of occupations you'll find in them.

Röz (nobility) – Government officials, high-level administrators, military officers, intelligence personnel, a few families from really old and successful businesses
Ïḫ káitén (landed gentry) – Landowners, landlords, property owners, toll collectors, people who administer things like universities and museums
Lerú (aristocracy) – Gigabusiness, old money
Ïḫ simní (hawaladars) – Money transmission, notaries public, bankers, investment advisors, financiers, legal representatives, negotiators, arbitrators, judges
Sákhazál (merchants) – Big business, small business, couriers, logistics, computers, tech support
Oisok (scribes) – Recordkeepers, historians, documentarians, researchers, journalists, archivists, people who preserve information
Tían (academicians) – Scientists, inventors, engineers, architects, urban planners, teachers, &c.
Mkói (caregivers) – Pharmacists, general practitioners (basically, anything medical that doesn't involve blood), food/beverage workers
Halun (mercenaries) – Middle-rank military personnel, security workers, legal professionals, weaponsmiths, weapons dealers, armorers
Śores (commoners) – Tradesmen and skilled workers of various types, farmers or farm administrators, first responders/emergency personnel, some religious occupations
Kalahíes (vulgar commoners) – Musicians, entertainers, professional athletes, artists, casino workers, menial laborers, unskilled workers, some religious occupations
Soś (chattel) – Chattel slaves, serfs, bonded laborers, indentured servants, and the like
Konér (untouchables) – To a first approximation, anything you'd see Mike Rowe doing a segment on. More specifically, if it's an occupation that involves handling of blood, bodily fluids, or remains, or presents significant risk to the worker (e.g. radiation, carcinogens), then it's probably a job for
a konér.

Këmêm

I translate këmêm as 'jati'. There are too many ukemêm to list; one example is that of the boyar (óimi), which falls under the umbrella of the röz.

Membership Restrictions

Strictly speaking, one's status within the caste system is inherited from one's father.

Prohibited Classes and Castes by Varna

- Hia can be of any múḫral except ren.
- Támrek cannot be röz or konér.
- Kán cannot be röz, ïḫ káitén, or of the ren class.
- Konrín cannot be from the ĝoksík or ren class.
- Sáĝit cannot be from the ĝoksík class (one exception: Sáĝit peoples can be ïḫ simní) or the ren class.
- Uiráha cannot be from the röz or ïḫ káitén castes, nor from the ren class.
- Kia can only be îmrir or ren.
- Uikúa can, at best, be kalahíes-caste, but this typically only happens upon manumission; the rest of them are ren.

Moving Up in the System

You don't.

There are a few exceptions to this:
- If you depose the previous dynasty and install yourself as emperor, your family then becomes röz. (The perks of the throne…).
- Infantry—here, I'm using this as a shorthand for "soldiers who are in a role where they may be expected to do combat directly with other people"; this excludes the highest echelons, specialists, pilots, &c.—are considered konér for the duration of their active duty within that role. If they leave the military or are promoted out of combat, they lose this status.
- Meritorious conduct in the military can be a way to move up.
- Prisoners are considered konér. Upon completion of their sentence, they may revert to their original status unless they've been convicted of one of the Six Great Thefts, in which case they remain konér.
- Persons of unknown parentage can receive genetic testing. This is used to classify orphans and children of single mothers, but the exception comes in when someone is thought to be the child of one father but is actually the child of another. In those cases, as they have been alive a while, the person in question gets to choose which class or caste they want to be part of—that of their biological father or the father with whom they were raised.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Khemehekis »

Man in Space wrote: 08 Jun 2021 09:52 Is it a rip-off of Latin (specifically Ecclesiastical Latin)? Yes, with a bit of Tolkien thrown in. Do I care? No, because in-universe it's a liturgical language.
[+1]

I don't know enough about Tolkien to recognize the Quenya/Sindarin/etc. influences, but I do like the idea of making a liturgical language that sounds like Ecclesiastical Latin.

The two main liturgical languages of Kankonia, Ciladian (for Rasaphism) and Phesandran (for Musefism) are somewhat more Middle-Eastern-sounding, kind of like Sumerian (although Ciladian ias palatalized consonants, and in fact has a palatalized consonant corresponding to every plain one).
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 80,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

The other day I received a copy of Gordon Whittaker’s book on how Nahuatl actually had a logosyllabic writing system, and it made me want to do one for CT. Some preliminary concepts:
Spoiler:
Image
Color is a meaningful distinction in this system; sometimes, changing the color scheme of a glyph will yield a related word, a word for a related concept, or an antonym.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

I would like to redo the Tim Ar caste system; the way I had it it seems like it was too bloated. So there will now be sort of three levels: méri 'race/ethnicity/tribe', akrár 'varna/caste', and këmêm 'jati/clan'.

Émri
- Hia – Those of PTO heritage
- Kán – The Caber, especially that contingent of ethnic Caber that has assimilated into the empire
- Konrín – Literally 'northerner', though that's not senso strictu accurate; in practice it's more of an ethnic gerrymander that primarily includes the Täptäg, the Irghal, the cultures of the Mziddyun (who are decidedly not northerners), the Kgáweq' (ditto), and a select few other groups such as the Oido.
- Kia – Wastebasket taxon

Akrár ar
- Oími (aristocracy) – The ruling class, landowners, gigabusiness, old money, hawaladars, high-level military
- Oisok (academics) – Scholars, scribes, bankers, legal professionals, mid-level military, major religious leaders/clergy
- Śores (commoners) – Tradesmen, skilled workers
- Kalahíes (vulgar commoners) – Unskilled workers
- Soś (chattel) – Slaves, serfs, bonded laborers, indentured servants, and the like
- Uikúa (untouchables) – It's a dirty job, but someone's got to do it

Ukemêm
There are too many of these to list.

Restrictions on caste
So who can be what?
- Hia can be oími, oisok, śores, or kalahíes.
- Kán can be oisok, śores, or kalahíes.
- Konrín can be śores, kalahíes, or soś.
- Kia can be soś or uikúa.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

I think I finally did it.
Spoiler:
Image
Image
Image
Cuneiform: Vertical, then two increments of thirty degrees in either direction. Read lower left to upper right (usually canted thirty/one hundred fifty degrees, depending on how you count, relative to horizontal).
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

So I've digitized up to the first 52 signs in the canon (sign 052 is the endonym 'Tim Ar'). Here's how the name of the language looks:

Image
ĜA-RI GEN Tim.Ar
019 – 017 – 039 – 052
Ĝare n Tim Ar

The phonetic piece of the canon works in that you have glyphs of type CA, CI, CU, as well as the bare vowel glyphs A, I, U, Ü (this last is a special case, q.v.). I and U cover E and O as well, and vowels can be any tone. (The defect within the system is, out-of-world, intentional.) The Ü-modifier turns a U into a Ü or Ö, or an I into an Ï or Ë; it does not occur following A-glyphs. Codas are indicated with a repeated vowel (tim 'eternal' would thus be spelt TI-MI); vowel sequences are spelt with an added bare vowel glyph (timi 'yellow plant sp.' is spelt TI-MI-I, and time 'heel' is also TI-MI-I). Basically, if a vowel glyph is the even-numbered member of a sequence of like vowels, it is dropped; e.g. TI-MI-SI > timsi, &c. whereas TI-I-MI-SI > timis, &c.

The way the canon is currently organized, there are one hundred seventy symbols that fit into eleven categories:
- Phonetic (001 – 037) – These are your garden-variety V or CV signs.
- Grammatical (038 – 039, 054 – 056) – Encode certain frequent grammatical functions such as negatives, genitives, and pronouns.
- Numeric (040 – 051, 131 – 132) – Describe numbers.
- Ethnic (052, 104 – 113) – Dedicated entries for race/ethnicity and varna/caste. (There are too many jatis/guilds for them to have their own symbols.)
- Chronological (056 – 060, 133 – 160) – Various sorts of time words, including units thereof and the names of the fortnights—but, strangely enough, not of the seasons. (One absent exception: The time-unit ḫu is just written using sign 009 ḪU.)
- Criminal (061 – 066) – Dedicated signs for the Six Great Thefts (murder, treason, sexual assault, kidnapping, elder abuse, conversion of property).
- Metaphysical (067 – 069) – Three signs for the concepts of god, antigod, and demon.
- Measure word (070 – 103) – The measure-words have their own unique glyphs.
- Sophont (114 – 117) – A few generic/bleached words for ordinary people (man, woman, child, and person).
- Geographic (118 – 130) – Includes directionals, the names of the imperial viceroyalties and special administrative zones, and the names of the two major rival superpowers, all of which have specific glyphs.
- Celestial (131 – 170) – The major celestial bodies within the Írözian system have their own symbols. This covers both stars, all planets, and the two moons of Íröz.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

One. I'm thinking I'm going to go back to ł for /ɬ/ and d for /θ/.

Two: Might make another suzerainty in the Empire: That of the Banner of Uúrutłara (Wurrjarra). Wurrjarra is an oddity as far as the empire goes: It was surrendered Dujajikiswa territory; since the Dujajikiswa are from below the Messerini line, they are one of the few female-dominant regions of the empire. The Ëá ar Té Kas n Uúrutłara, the 'Fighting Women of Wurrjarra', are a clan whose hat is being women who wage war (if you've played Space: 1889, think the Amazons; otherwise, maybe the Night Witches or WASPs, except more general fighters). I may or may not have to revise the cuneiform spelling a bit because otherwise this would be U-U-U-U-RU-RU-LA-A-RA-A (UUUURURULAARAA > UURURLARA [UURUTŁARA]). The perils of adapting a writing system from a nearly-wholly unsuitable donor language…

Three: Adding a free city in Uluhír: Líhsakan (Lissagon). No real reason other than that, as a place name, it's existed for years without much of a grounding. So why not give it to the empire?
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Titus Flavius »

Man in Space wrote: 28 Sep 2021 07:17 ł for /ɬ/
[+1]
Man in Space wrote: d for /θ/
[O.O]
ω - near-close near-back unrounded vowel.
XIPA
:pol: :mrgreen:
:eng: [:)]
:esp: [:S]
:lat: [:'(]
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

I'm thinking I'm going to redo the romanization of some of my conlangs due to technical limitations—my font family of choice, TT Marxiana, has a disappointingly limited character set. The main changes:

Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar:

/m n ŋ/ m n ĝ
/θ s x h/ ð s ḫ h
/ɬ/ ł
/ɹ ʕ/ r g
/l/ l

Vowels stay the same

Common Caber:

The same, except /ə ɨ/ ă â

Sisok Tlar Kyanà (now Sı̋sǒk Tlar Canà):

A1 a
A2 à
B1 ǎ
B2 â
C1 á
C2
D1 ȧ
D2 ă

/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ny ng
/p b t d c ɟ k g/ p b t d ky gy k g
/ɸ β s z ʃ ʒ h/ f v s z sy zy h
/l ~ ɹ/ l ~ r

/u o ɔ a ɛ e i/ u o ao a ae e i (first letter takes tone marks in digraphs)
/oi̯ ai̯/ uy ay
/u̯V i̯V/ uV iV

[+nas] Vn

Kgáweq’:
/m n/ m n
/t t’ d k k’ g q q’ ʔ/ t t’ d k k’ g q q’ h
/ts ts’ tɬ tɬ’ kx kx’ qχ qχ’/ ts ts’ tł tł’ kg kg’ qg qg’
/s ɬ/ s ł
/w l j ʕ/ w l j r

Çuvvaccoçim:

/m ɲ ŋ/ m gn ng
/b c ɟ k g ʔ/ b c ǵ k g ’
/v ç ʝ x ɣ h/ v ç j x ǧ h
/ʟ ʎ/ l ll
/w j/ w y

A flying dot · distinguishes /ʟː/ (l·l) from /ʎ/ (ll)

/u ɯ o ɤ a e i/ u ï o ë a e i
/oɪ̯~oɯ̯ ao̯ ae̯~aɤ eʊ̯~ɤʊ̯/ oe ao ae eu

O:

/p t k kʷ q qʷ/ b t k cu q qu
/m n/ m n
/d~ɾ/ d
/f β~w s z x xʷ χ χʷ/ f b s z g gu r ru
/j/ j

/a aː ɛ ɛː e eː i iː ə əː ɨ ɨː o oː u uː/ a a: è è: e e: i i: ă ă: â â: o o: u u:
/ae̯ ei̯ ao̯ ou̯/ ae ei ao ou

Cel Oso (now Cêl Osô):

Consonants stay the same; vowels change as below

/a aː e eː i iː o oː u uː/ a â e ê i î o ô u û
/ai̯ aːi̯ oi̯ oːi̯ au aːu̯ eu̯ eːu̯/ ae âe oe ôe au âu eu êu

Proto-Dujajikiswə:

/m n̪ n ɲ ŋ/ m ń n ñ ng
/p t̪ t tʲ k ʔ/ p d t j k ’
/s̪ s ʃ h/ z s ç h
/w l̪ l j/ w ł l y

/u o ɔ a ə ɛ e i/ u o å a ə ä e i

Proto-Taltic:

/t k kʷ/ t k kʷ
/s/ s
/l/ l

/i ɨ u/ i y u
/e ə o/ e ə o
/ɛ a ɔ/ ä a å

Proto-Ban De:

/m n ŋ ŋʷ ɴ ɴʷ/ m n ñ ñʷ ṅ ṅʷ
/p pʼ b ɓ t tʼ d ɗ c k kʼ g kʷ gʷ q qʼ ɢ qʷ ɢʷ/ p p’ b b’ t t’ d d’ c k k’ g kʷ q q’ ġ qʷ ġʷ
/f v s z/ f v s z
/r j jˤ w wˤ ʕ/ r y ẏ w ẇ ṙ

/u ɔ a ɛ i/ u o a e i

Proto-Wekoq:

/m m̥ n n̥ ŋ ŋ̊/ m mh n nh
/p pʰ b b̥ t tʰ d d̥ k kʰ g g̊ q qʰ ɢ ɢ̥/ p ph b bh t th d dh k kh g gh q qh ġ ġh
/s x h/ s j h
/ʜ ʢ/ ḫ r
/w l/ w l

/u uˤ o oˤ a aˤ e eˤ i iˤ/ u û o ô a â e ê i î

A flying dot, ·, breaks up nasal-plus-/h/ sequences.

Archaic Wǫkratąk:

I think it stays the same, except the implosives will have to change. Which looks better: /ɓ ɗ ɠ/ ḃ ḋ ġ or /ɓ ɗ ɠ/ b’ d’ g’?

Classical Khaya, surprisingly, and Təmattwəspwaypksma stay the same.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Titus Flavius »

Man in Space wrote: 31 Oct 2021 06:27 I think it stays the same, except the implosives will have to change. Which looks better: /ɓ ɗ ɠ/ ḃ ḋ ġ or /ɓ ɗ ɠ/ b’ d’ g’?
I think apostrophe is better.
ω - near-close near-back unrounded vowel.
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

I've redone some of the political map. The Tim Ar Empire is now smaller than Asia! I think that's more realistic. Still has the Mziddyun though…

----

The kakistocracies of Deś Ăśane (CT: Téłëłané) are a number of really small city-states and associated territories located in the western part of Matanhír. The Tim Ar never quite managed to get ahold of them and kind of don't care to. As their name implies, the kakistocracies have their origins in organized crime syndicates and families in the Caber sphere of influence that, by various means, have become the de facto and de jure governing parties in the region. These places have borders that would make Baarle jealous.

The domains of the kakistocracies get, in parts, to be the densest-populated areas on the planet, with some areas on par with the old Kowloon Walled City. They're located primarily in the watershed and delta areas of one of the major river complexes in Matanhír, and they are therefore major trade and travel destinations. Their proximity to both the Tim Ar and the Caber states allows them to facilitate movement of goods and otherwise take advantage of the geopolitical situation.

Different governorates feature different rates of legitimacy vs. corruption (these terms used in relative senses because this is essentially legalized Mafia rule). The thing is, the political corruption ended up actually almost becoming a good thing, because it incentivized the people who were paying the protection rackets to actually get benefits.

----

There are two halves to the supercontinent now instead of the…really bizarre system I previously had. North of the Messerini line, which is still a Thing, is Maranhír (literally 'man's land'); south of it is Terhír (literally 'woman's land'). (The naming in CT is unimaginative given the politics of the Messerini line.) The Ighral live on a northern continent Gáteĝkuólo; to the southwest of the supercontinent is Tuóntón, as it was previously; and to the west of that is, as previously, Ḫurkéłis.

----

The Tim Ar Empire is composed of:
- Five viceroyalties (Uluhír, West Káorðer, the Core Imperium, Greater Kélekeð, Kéntaganténe, West Káorðer)
- Two special administrative zones (Ḫurkéłis and the Mziddyun)
- A ragtag collection of suzerainties
- Two free cities
- A small amount of insular possessions

The suzerainties can be classified into:
- Four banners (former military governorates or juntas; include Kal Iháni, Linömaár, Łolsóĝ, and Uúrutłara)
- Four baronies (run by satraps; Atluténðén, Kamlü, Tesineki, and Rïnmír)
- A handful of castellanies (garrisoned cities or regions that were incorporated; Cannelon (Kánelon), Dungming (Tuĝmiĝ), Ker Ulu, Leḫéu, Mol Ór, and Nam Náĝ)
- A single dependency (Mitał Kío)
- A scattering of marches (Täptäg cities with special economic status and privileges)
- A handful of palatinates (incorporated cities or regions that weren't originally run by military governments; Êhserís, Hütoókhón, Ḫéehalanié, Itseér, Iłnéethéhmia, Kéentak, and Tekhënláan)
- Three principalities (Deverris, Łauëłáu Êhsé, and the Täptäg Principality)
- Two republics (Regon and Téromoro)

There are two free cities, namely the capital Ákmrkámr and the UN-type city Íröðkámr.

----

The Han Shraddi is a minor nation bordering the Tim Ar Empire on the south. It's sort of a banana republic and, despite being basically Communist, is a known (and notorious) tax haven.

----

Some yellow plants or black plants you can find in the Empire:
éonïł – Yellow shrub that grows to about 30 cm tall and has a slender, crooked trunk. The leaves have a decidedly reddish tinge.
łáag – Black, frail, mat-like moss found in tropical, humid areas.
ulrak – Black plant with a triangularly-symmetric, spire-like trunk. The bark is ridged and mottled, sprouting off narrow branches. The tree grows to about two meters in height and bears cream-colored needle-like fruits with blue flesh.

----

CT táhrá 'asbestos'
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Let's rework this a bit…I have the following situation w.r.t. the Tim Ar Empire.

There are a number of suzerainties. I have a handful of special cases that I am pretty set on keeping distinct, outlined below:
- Four banners, comprising former military governorates or juntas—Kal Iháni, Linömaár, Łolsóĝ, and Wur Jara (Uúrutłara)
- A single dependency, Mitał Kío
- A scattering of marches (Täptäg cities with special economic status and privileges)
- Three principalities: Deverris (Teherís), Łauëłáu Êhsé, and the Täptäg Principality

This leaves me with the following cities/special-status regions, but I don't know whether to lump them or split them (and how to call them if I lump them). They're supposed to be heightened status but not quite to the level of the principalities. See, the Tim Ar make anyone they bring into the empire subservient to the emperor, so basically the highest rank you can get otherwise is prince (hence the principalities). The banners all have military governors, the marches are a bit of a mixed bag but they have some kind of mayoral/economic system going on generally, the dependency is essentially a satrapy, and then we have these smaller areas.

- Atluténðén
- Cannelon (Kánelon)
- Dungming (Tuĝmiĝ)
- Êhserís
- Hütoókhón
- Ḫéehalanié
- Itseér
- Iłnéethéhmia
- Kamlü
- Kéentak
- Ker Ulu
- Leḫéu
- Líshakon
- Bol Ou (Mol Ór)
- Nam Náĝ
- Rekon
- Rïnmír
- Tekhënláan
- Téromoro
- Tesineki

There is also Lé Mëĝ, an unincorporated area similar to Papua New Guinea; it's kind of treated as "all hope abandon, ye who enter here", though there are a few cities and significant settlements around there. It doesn't have much by way of governance—think the Unorganized Borough in Alaska for a rough comparison—so I don't think it could properly be called a "suzerainty", but something like "control zone" sounds a little too much like a North Korean labor camp.

----

Kihê kôn Nihnîd Łíłïk ü
six MW.flaw theft terrible DEF

The Six Great Thefts are the six domains of crime that the Tim Ar will execute you for. These are all considered to be thefts of some sort:
  • Łïské, treason (theft of safety—i.e. that guaranteed by one's country)
  • Mhára, murder (theft of life)
  • Tolë, rape and sexual assault (theft of autonomy)
  • Minges, kidnapping and forced extradition (theft of person)
  • Tókrid, elder abuse and abuse of influence (theft of agency)
  • Túalga, a term covering crimes such as conversion of property, embezzlement, and major financial fraud (theft of livelihood)
----

A thought occurred to me a few minutes ago (as of when I wrote that). CT d is conventionally conceived of by me as /θ/ [ð], but if it were /t̪/ [d̪] instead, it would make CT stick to the old three-plosive paradigm without me having to kludge something in a daughter language (and furthermore, it would give me an easy route to bring back /p/). On the minus side, CT has had /θ/ [ð] for over a decade, so I don't want to get rid of it, and I'd hate to add any more phonemes to the inventory I do have.

----

I'm thinking I will change Caber /ə ɨ/ ă â to ŏ ŭ. This'll make it less a sea of variants of a and bring it more in line with some romanizations of Korean, which is appropriate because the Caber society rhymes significantly with the DPRK.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Belief in the Way of the Renewers originated in the societies of the Banagarinimo peoples in the east of Terhír, but this quickly became the dominant religion across a wide swath of Terhír, to include the Nyar Toler Kyanà and—with a religious tradition known for fanaticism—the Tlusa. Of note is that their funerary rites involve tying up the deceased to poles, getting really drunk/high, and dancing around holding the poles until the body falls apart.

----

The religion of the Patchwork States:

The main power couple is that of Furies and Sogeu. Furies is the god of mountains, valor/bravery, health, the stars, and, for some reason, bridges. Sogeu, for her part, is a goddess whose primary domain is over disease, blight, pestilence…and children, childbearing, and pregnancy. One of her many titles is "Queen of Contagion"; she is also called the "All-Mother" (figure that one out). Anyway, opposites attract, Phuries and Sogeu started having kids, and those kids became a generation of gods and goddesses. There are a very large number of them, but the main ones of concern to us appear below.

- Aeloanixon is the god of justice, karma, whatever you call it.
- Cimn is the goddess of fish, harbors, the coast, and large bodies of water.
- The god of the rivers is an interesting case as his name, according to the lore, was basically deleted from existence, so you can only circumlocute to talk about him. He's also in charge of rain.
- Ilae is a goddess with purview over a number of things, including the forge; she has more than a few screws loose and is also partially lame. However, one might be more correct to say she governs changes of states—if you forge an item, you're changing the state of the iron from, say, a raw ingot to a usable tool, and if you extend this principle a ways, you end up with the concept of what Ilae rules over.
- Isaendax is the "god of deceit and keys"; really, he's the one you patronize for clandestine stuff, keeping things safe, stuff in that line. As he is sort of a ruler of stability, he and Ilae are at each other's throats, and whereas Ilae is erratic and unpredictable, Isaendax is cool and calculating.
- Las and Logax are a pair of fraternal conjoined twins (yeah…). They hate each other, but they hate the adasar more. Of the "mainstream" religious orders of the Patchwork States, theirs is the least-populous, but it is their hope that they can cause Las and Logax to stop hating the adasar one way or another (leading some to worship them out of spite).
- Loeae is the goddess of abundance and fertility (you appeal to Sogeu during the pregnancy itself but to Loeae to get pregnant in the first place). She is associated with fog, for some reason.
- Minnax is basically the nerd god. Wisdom, creativity, intelligence, ideas, arguments, mathematics, and medicine…all sorts of things like that are his domain.
- Oraes is a goddess associated with victory. It may surprise you to learn that she is considered to be patently unattractive (though stopping far short of Medusa levels of hideous).
- St. Vengeance, uniquely among the pantheon, was originally a mortal. A loved one of his died, or so the story goes, and he fought his way to Death itself to try to bring her back. Death told him that not only could his loved one not be brought back to life, but also that, upon death, souls were extinguished and ceased to exist entirely. In a fit of what I can only describe as a supreme combination of exasperation, sadness, anger, and "might as well…", St. Vengeance then slew Death and took his place, determining that he would not let sapient existence dissolve away and would instead preserve the souls of the deceased after death. Supposedly he can often be found brooding as a black mist with uranium-green eyes, high up in the hills or mountainous areas; he is said to grant audiences to mortals with greater frequency than other deities in the pantheon, though he is reputedly lacking in bedside manner.
- Xeae is the goddess of memory, experience, recollection, recall, facts, and narrative. A good way to succinctly relate her to Minnax is to say Xeae is to Minnax as mathematics is to physics. Lately she is also considered a goddess of the press.

There are also the moon twins, to wit Ceutro (the smaller moon) and Gur (the bigger one). They're seen as kind of antigods. Ceutro is known for hanging out in forests and entering into relationships or deals with wicked mortals, whereas Gur likes the plains and, more generally, the soil. Warriors and politicians/bureaucrats patronize Gur, whereas Coutro is the focus of farmers and fishermen. Coutro is also invoked by gamblers.

The god/antigod division here is more along the lines of that gods have more control over reality but that antigods are more sympathetic to mortals.

----

OK, so we need to reboot the Patchwork States' language again.

/m n/ m n
/p b t~ts d~dz k~tʃ g~dʒ/ p* b t** d c** g
/f s x h/ ph s ch h
/v~w ɹ l j/ v r l i
* /ps/ bs
** /ts ks/ z x (when /ts/ isn't [ts])

/a aː e eː i iː o oː u uː/ a ā e ē i ī o ō u ū
/aɪ eʊ oɪ ʊa/ ae eu oe oa

/t d k g/ > [ts dz tʃ dʒ] / _{j,e,eː,i,iː}
/a aː/ > [æ æː] / _{k,g,x} and sometimes in free variation
v ~ w in free variation, though [v] is more common

((s)(S)(R)/(O)(R))V(C/(N)S(s)) or somesuch…basically Latin with a few bonus features

Some gibberish phrases:
Mālliōn cara vēreu
Vix vēnum coleu
Isaendax nēgis itīn volpec
Cāndala līgis eu nagi phandix
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Creyeditor »

Interesting (both gods and PS language. I also have a Latin-like language Kobardon, which is similar, yet different.
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Creyeditor wrote: 05 Feb 2022 20:45Interesting (both gods and PS language. I also have a Latin-like language Kobardon, which is similar, yet different.
Thank you!

----

I am attempting to nail down the contrasting triad of discrimination that fuels the setting.

- The Tim Ar believe that the standing of your birth determines who you are. They believe this to the ridiculous extreme of their unwieldy, bulky race-class-caste system, about which I've gone on before. I've written much of the stuff in this thread about them or from their perspective.

- The Tlar Kyanà believe that your sex determines who you are. Men are the expendable gender hand have markedly lower life expectancies than do women, being chosen to do all the dangerous and unpleasant jobs. They are a matriarchy, as expected from a people below the Messerini line. I'll have more to say on them later.

- The Empire of the Violet Sun believes that your religious background determines who you are. It's like a more discriminatory version of Lebanon that managed to expand and become a world superpower. The EVS is a conglomeration of member states in a similar capacity to the various soviets of the Soviet Union, and they largely (though not entirely) comprise factions that hold the Bom Ikkeb as the major religious figure. However, not all rectangles are squares, and it is the case that a) some non-Bom Ikkeb-aligned factions have membership in the EVS and b) not all groups who accept the Bom Ikkeb are part of the EVS. The Tilatlak, the Uch Ndai, and the Åü are all ethnic groups with majority followers of certain sects or cults of the Bom Ikkeb, with a general sort of power-sharing scheme in operation. How well you get treated in the EVS depends on the religious affiliations of the actors, and religious police—and secret police—do exist.

Speaking of the Bom Ikkeb, he is seen as a figure of Ultimate Eeeeeeeeeeeeevil™ in the pantheon of the Patchwork States, where he is known as Bacceuvān, the herald of old Death who tried to reëstablish the old way (so basically a mixture of the Silver Surfer and Logain from Wheel of Time).

----

Ḫántisúr [xǽndɹìzúɹ] (ultimately from Archaic Wǫkratąk *kęd issǫddę [kẽd isːõdːẽ] 'keep/stronghold of rest') is the largest city in the Mziddyun and sort of the de facto capital of the region; the whole desert is considered a special administrative zone as far as the Tim Ar are concerned, but they generally feel some sympathy for the pastoralists who live within and allow them some sort of devolution of powers when it comes to running their own affairs. There are numerous groups, broadly classifiable into five affiliations known as îmtir ar n adgir ü 'peoples of the desert':

- Gah yo Akišṭ, the "Destroyed People", though actually not the least-populous group
- Nyudyene, a modest amount of people thereof in several clades speaking different, though related, languages
- Raholg, of whom there are a lot, but not nearly as much as the Wǫkratąk
- Sengin, the smallest group; speaks a linguistic isolate
- Wǫkratąk, the OG Sprachbund success story

Ḫántisúr was established by, and is essentially controlled by, the Wǫkratąk. In fact, basically everyone is barred from entry unless they are from specific families/lineages or dispensation has been given by the ruling clan.

Along the southern outskirts of Ḫántisúr is a section of dunes with a large number of poles sunk into the desert, for which most entry is forbidden on pain of death (though certain populations do have the authority to do so and serve as its caretakers). The îmtír ar n adgir ü tend to deflect any inquiries as to what goes on there. If you really must know, they purchase arms, ordnance and ammunition, seal/weatherproof the packaging thereof, and then secretly bury it under cover of night. The idea is that, if things ever get really bad and Ḫántisúr is under siege or threat, they'll have everybody dig it all up.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Notes on CT pluralization pathways:
CVgC- > VCaC-
tV- > Vr-
hVtk- [hVtsk-] > Vask-
hVkt- > Vats-

I'm debating whether I want CT k to behave like t does, and lenite to g (the voiced pharyngeal fricative) in all environments where t does. As a refresher:
- t becomes r in all positions except:
-- Initial
-- Adjacent to d, h, , k, l, n, ł, r, or s
- t becomes [ts] before k
- tl tn tr become , ts, and ts
- t becomes [dr] after l, n, and r

So tarísio [tàrísìò] 'twin', ártás [árdrás] 'mirror', ḫerénta [xèréndrà] 'life force, soul', atkóm [àtskóm] 'ingots', itsen [ìtsèn] 'leaves' < tinen [tìnèn] 'leaf'.

If I did this with k and g, I'd stick to the environments where t became r and ignore the rest, except leaving ĝk sequences as they are homorganic and gk or kg sequences because otherwise we'd have a geminate, which is disallowed. I'd only lose a few words like, e.g., míku 'hat', which would then become migu.

…actually I think I really like this.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

I have once again redone how CT cuneiform works.

Image
ĝa-ri-e GEN ti-mi PL
/ŋàɹè n̩ tìm àɹ/
[ŋàɹè n̩‿dɹìm àɹ]
ĝare n Tim Ar
'Ĝare n Tim Ar (i.e. CT)'

So we have the following phonograms:

ma, mi, mu
na, ni, nu
ĝa, ĝi, ĝu

ra/ta, ri/ti, ru/tu
la/ła, li/łi, lu/łu
ga/ka, ge/ke, gi/ki, go/ko, gu/ku

da, di, du
sa, si, su
ḫa, ḫe, ḫi, ḫo, ḫu
ha, hi, hu

a, e, i, o, u
ü, ï


There's a few ways to read glyph sequences. The velars all have five glyphs due to quirks of historical development. The rest have three; the non-velars' vowels pull double-duty for two vowels. Here's some examples.

ma /ma/
ma-ma /mam/
ma-ma-STET /ma.ma/ (the STET glyph means "read this vowel too")
a-ma /am/

mi /mi/ or /me/
mi-a /mi.a/ or /me.a/
mi-ï /mɯ/

mi-mu /mi.mu/
mu-ü /my/
ma-ü /mø/
ma-ï /mɤ/

mi-e /me/
mi-e-mi /me.mi/
mi-e-mi-e /mem/
mi-e-mi-e-STET /me.me/

mi-e-STET /mi.e/
mi-STET-e-mi /mi.e.mi/

There are also logograms/ideograms. I haven't worked out what all of them are yet.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Because Janko asked for these:

Proto-Ban De (counts in base-5)
  1. qʼuk
  2. ɔpkˤʼɔ
  3. ɔt
  4. aŋˤwɛpʼ
  5. ɴˤɛɛŋˤkˤ
  6. qʼukɴˤɛɛŋˤkˤ
  7. ɔpkˤʼɔɴˤɛɛŋˤkˤ
  8. ɔtɴˤɛɛŋˤkˤ
  9. aŋˤwɛpʼɴˤɛɛŋˤkˤ
  10. ɴˤɛɛŋˤkˤʊ̯ˤɔ
Proto-Dujajikiswə (counts in base-12)
  1. ijak
  2. kåz
  3. dåyço
  4. jëñjə
  5. ngeng
  6. okańdu
  7. luy’a
  8. çahëk
  9. ngidäy
  10. pa’
  11. eńho
  12. säyyak
Classical Khaya (counts in base-12)
  1. fiĝ
  2. liǧu
  3. p'af
  4. at'u
  5. k'in
  6. gi
  7. ǧul
  8. ya
  9. ǧafa
  10. fi
  11. thul
  12. wiqhu
Təmattwəspwaypksma (only has organic numbers up to four)
  1. asat
  2. yayyə
  3. ksəssəs
  4. natyas
Archaic Wǫkratąk (counts in base six and subject to possible change more so than the rest)
  1. innakąs
  2. ġohąt
  3. halk
  4. ñañnakąk
  5. ilkǫm
  6. iñlin
  7. innakąs ǫylin
  8. ġohąt ǫylin
  9. halk ǫylin
  10. ñañnakąk ǫylin
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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