Twin Aster (Man in Space’s conworld megathread)

Discussions about constructed worlds, cultures and any topics related to constructed societies.
User avatar
Man in Space
roman
roman
Posts: 1007
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 08:07
Location: Ohio

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Man in Space »

eldin raigmore wrote: 23 Jul 2020 23:31 Is it possible that “cent” and “canton” are related in your concountry?
Is a “canton” (in the Swiss sense) like a “hundred” (in the Medieval English sense, a unit of local government)?

Just because Kmtom kinda sounds like both.
Probably not, but you never know. I haven't really gotten that far with it yet.

-------------------------------------------

So awhile back, I worked backwards from Classical Ngade n Tim Ar and (Proto-)O to come up with Proto-Tim Ar-O. I have decided that the result was less than satisfactory, so I have reworked it.

The new starting phonology for Proto-Tim Ar-O (hereinafter "PTO") is:

*m *n *ŋ
*p *b *t̪ *d̪ *t *d *tʲ *dʲ *k *g *q *ɢ *ʔ
*ð *ɹ *j *w *ʁ
*l

Vowels: *a *ɛ *e *i *ɔ *o *u
Diphthongs: *ia *iɛ *ie *iɔ *io

C(C)(R)(V/e{j/w/ʁ})(C/R(ʔ))

To Classical Ngade n Tim Ar

I'm pretty focused on maintaining this phonology as-is given how much work I've done on the language otherwise.

m n ŋ
t k
θ s x h
ɬ
ɹ l ʕ

a e ø i y ɤ o ɯ u + low or high tone

How did we get here?

1. Tone split
V → [+ low tone] / [+vc]_
V → [+ high tone] / [-vc]_
[+vc] → [-vc]

2. Fricative genesis and creation of syllabic consonants
p t̪ t tʲ k q ʔ → f θ s ʃ x χ h / _{i,u}
{i,u} → Ø / _R
{i,u} → Ø / R_
i → Ø / _V
ɛ e ɔ o → e i o u
ʕ → à / {C,#}_{C,#}

3. Glottal stop affectation of coda resonants
l ɹ j w ʁ → ɬ s ʃ f χ / _ʔ%

4. Loss and replacement of *l and resulting coronal shifts
l → ʕ
θ ð → ɬ l
s ʃ → θ s
t̪ t tʲ → p t̪ t

5. Dental randomness
t̪ → s / _E
t̪ → p / _B
t̪ → t / else

6. Loss of the glottal stop and
ʔ → Ø
ʁ → Ø
Lenition of *p
p → f

7. Vowel rounding funtime land
[+V +front/back ±hi ±tone ±ro][+V +back/front ±POA] → [+V ±hi ±tone ±ro ±POA]

8. Fricative stuff
f {q,χ} → h x

9. Allophonic stuff
[-vc] → [+vc] / [+vc]_[+vc] (except /h/)

To Proto-O

I'm open to suggestions on how to make this suck less. I'm pretty dead-set on this phonology as well, as it was part of a challenge to get to an eight-phoneme conlang.

*N (one nasal archiphoneme)
*p *t *k
*h
*w *j *ʁ (these pull double duty as vowels when in nucleic position, surfacing as *u *i *a, respectively)

*e

Out of convention, *ʁ is written r.

How did we get here?

1. Coronal processes
t̪ d̪ tʲ dʲ → t d s z
ð ɹ → j ʁ[/list]

2. Lenition of voiced stops
b d {g,ɢ} → w l ʁ

3. Debuccalization of sibilants
{s,z} → h

4. Uvular fronting
q → k

5. Nasalization of *l and nasal archiphoneme generation
l → n
N → [assimilate in place to following consonant] / _C
N → n / otherwise

6. Loss of
ʔ → w / _B
ʔ → j / _{E,a}
ʔ → Ø / else

7. Resyllabification
Stuff resyllabifies due to onset rules; larger onsets preferred

8. Merger of *o into *a
o → a

9. Allophonic stuff
p t k → pf ts kx / _{j,i}
p t k → β z ɣ / V_V
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
User avatar
Man in Space
roman
roman
Posts: 1007
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 08:07
Location: Ohio

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Man in Space »

So some world maps and stuff, mainly focusing on the Tim Ar Imperium. GPlates was used to crunch the numbers, where relevant, but these are still approximate values.

A world map; pardon the eye-searing colors, this was more so I could get a feel for how things worked out. Some of these are not individual polities themselves but blocs thereof, compounded for ease of making the map, and will be worked out in greater detail later.
Image

The Tim Ar Imperium (in red; interior grey areas are bodies of water I forgot to turn black, and the turquoise I forgot to edit out when I made the map). I crunched the numbers on the Imperium, and it's an absolute unit. It covers more territory than Asia, but hey, the wonders of modern technology and telecommunications.
Image

On its first order, the Imperium is split into five viceroyalties and two special administrative zones. In the north, and in the darker hues, from west to east: The Viceroyalty of Uluhír, the Viceroyalty of West Kaorðér, the Viceroyalty of the Core Imperium, the Viceroyalty of Méoménsú, and the Viceroyalty of Greater Kelekeð. In the south, in much lighter tints, are the Gurkéłis SAZ and the Mziddyun SAZ.
Image

The next level down is that of the namestnichestvo. There's a map of those and several other, lesser polities that exist outside of the main hierarchy: Suzerainties (in gold), free cities (the white dots), unorganized territories (dark grey), and frontier territories (lighter grey). The SAZs, which have no real internal structure, are also indicated in robin's egg blue and off-white.
Image

Suzerainties and free cities typically got special administrative privileges and greater internal autonomy due to handing over their sovereignty to the Imperium with some degree of volition; the largest of these, the Suzerainty of Deverris, is about the size of Iraq and is located south of the Core Imperium. Special administrative zones have some permanent habitation, but it's generally sparse and semi- or impermanent. The Mziddyun is a desert the size of Australia wherein a Sprachbund of triconsonantal languages is found and was basically inherited after the Jädäwan War when nobody else really wanted it (joke's on them, there's resources and strike points there); Gurkéłis is an entire continent that ended up getting annexed and is currently being bulldozed over…much like Australia, though with a less memetically-lethal reputation.

The unorganized territories are basically where the Imperium threw up its hands and said "All hope abandon, ye who enter here"; in the case of the Lé Mêĝ, which is about the size of two and a half Californias, it's because of the logistical difficulties stemming from the impassable forests, mountains, and valleys (similar to Papua New Guinea), whereas the remaining unorganized territories were bombed out during the war and are nigh uninhabitable. Frontier territories are either recent acquisitions or pride points where no reasonable permanent habitation is expected.

There's levels below that of the namestnichestvo—the oblast (more like a state in the US), raion, selsoviet, city, and borough. I haven't worked out a map of oblasts yet.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
User avatar
Man in Space
roman
roman
Posts: 1007
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 08:07
Location: Ohio

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Man in Space »

So I was wandering down an Internet rabbit hole and I saw some ways you could change the color of the ocean. I've decided that Ítöð has red, iron-rich oceans. Might even be a Canfield ocean.

Also, Ítöð has two kingdoms corresponding to "plants" based on what color their chlorophylls are: íðĝkü (sg. ðíĝkü), the yellow plants, and ukiklu (sg. köklu), the black plants. I've thought about maybe making a kingdom of green plants, but if I did, those would be confined to Gurkélis just to set it apart a bit.

TL;DR – This planet is going to look weird from space.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 2935
Joined: 22 Nov 2014 04:48

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by elemtilas »

Linguifex wrote: 22 Oct 2020 03:09 So I was wandering down an Internet rabbit hole and I saw some ways you could change the color of the ocean. I've decided that Ítöð has red, iron-rich oceans. Might even be a Canfield ocean.

Also, Ítöð has two kingdoms corresponding to "plants" based on what color their chlorophylls are: íðĝkü (sg. ðíĝkü), the yellow plants, and ukiklu (sg. köklu), the black plants. I've thought about maybe making a kingdom of green plants, but if I did, those would be confined to Gurkélis just to set it apart a bit.

TL;DR – This planet is going to look weird from space.
Cool! I like the idea of a red, ironic ocean! Q: How does the two plant kingdom thing work? I'm not complaining, but simply curious: why wouldn't there just be a single plant kingdom but two or three subdivisions within that kingdom? Is this a whimsical decision or is there something (pseudo)sciencey at the root of it?

I ask also for comparative reasons, Yeola having green plants and also red plants (with blackred and black plants subdivisions of red). As well as green and red things that are not quite plants and not quite animals.
User avatar
WeepingElf
sinic
sinic
Posts: 237
Joined: 23 Feb 2016 18:42
Location: Braunschweig, Germany
Contact:

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by WeepingElf »

As far as I understand what Wikipedia writes about this, a Canfield ocean requires a low-oxygen atmosphere, which is certainly not what you want.
... brought to you by the Weeping Elf
User avatar
Man in Space
roman
roman
Posts: 1007
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 08:07
Location: Ohio

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Man in Space »

elemtilas wrote: 22 Oct 2020 03:28
Linguifex wrote: 22 Oct 2020 03:09 So I was wandering down an Internet rabbit hole and I saw some ways you could change the color of the ocean. I've decided that Ítöð has red, iron-rich oceans. Might even be a Canfield ocean.

Also, Ítöð has two kingdoms corresponding to "plants" based on what color their chlorophylls are: íðĝkü (sg. ðíĝkü), the yellow plants, and ukiklu (sg. köklu), the black plants. I've thought about maybe making a kingdom of green plants, but if I did, those would be confined to Gurkélis just to set it apart a bit.

TL;DR – This planet is going to look weird from space.
Cool! I like the idea of a red, ironic ocean! Q: How does the two plant kingdom thing work? I'm not complaining, but simply curious: why wouldn't there just be a single plant kingdom but two or three subdivisions within that kingdom? Is this a whimsical decision or is there something (pseudo)sciencey at the root of it?

I ask also for comparative reasons, Yeola having green plants and also red plants (with blackred and black plants subdivisions of red). As well as green and red things that are not quite plants and not quite animals.
I just figured the division would be extremely basal, plus I figured it’d make for more variety or uniqueness.
WeepingElf wrote: 22 Oct 2020 16:28 As far as I understand what Wikipedia writes about this, a Canfield ocean requires a low-oxygen atmosphere, which is certainly not what you want.
Ah, thank you. I’m not very knowledgeable in the requisite sciences and I didn’t pick up on that.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
User avatar
Man in Space
roman
roman
Posts: 1007
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 08:07
Location: Ohio

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Man in Space »

I have been reëvaluating where Ítöð is located. It requires the following:
- G-type primary, or reasonably close option
- Projected age of at least 2 Gyr, preferably 3 – 6 Gyr
- Wide binary or similar system
- No currently-detected extrasolar planets that would wreck the habitable zone
- < 100 ly distance
- Avoidance of cliché systems (e.g. Alpha Centauri, Tau Ceti)

So there are four candidates as of current: Xi Boötis A, Zeta Herculis B, 85 Pegasi A, and 11 Leonis Minoris A. (The other/present option is Eta Cassiopeiae A).

- Xi Boötis A. Might be slightly too young, and it's listed as a variable star. But it's reasonably close. Xi Boötis B also has a really low-mass stellar companion, and with my current plans that's exactly what I need.
- Zeta Herculis B. Not a G-type star, but has a habitable zone of ~0.88 AU, and this may be stable even with Zeta Herculis A coming as close as 7.8 AU. A, meanwhile, appears to have a large substellar companion; this works well for my purposes.
- 85 Pegasi A. Similar to the above, but a bit more of the obscurity factor—how many people you think would have ever heard of 85 Pegasi? Then again, horse references might not make much sense in my context.
- 11 Leonis Minoris A. The eccentricity of the A/B orbit may work in my favor. The reference to a feline may not.
- Eta Cassiopeiae A, the current home of Ítöð. One lesser issue is that the physics dictates the local year might be too long.

Any opinions?
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 2935
Joined: 22 Nov 2014 04:48

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by elemtilas »

Linguifex wrote: 03 Dec 2020 04:57 Any opinions?
If by "cliche system" you mean a place that's "known" from some SF realm, then I'd have to admit that, for some reason, 85 Pegasi sounds vaguely familiar. Like something Star Treky; and I see references to both ST and Halo. Probably not cliche enough, though! Of course, I know of all those constellations, but none of the other systems ring quite the same bell.

Going by what you wrote, I'd say toss up between Z Herculis & 85 Pegasi, with a coin weighted in the former's favour! Go with what works well.
Khemehekis
runic
runic
Posts: 2815
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Khemehekis »

If you disregard the "Greys are from Zeta Reticuli" stuff, this page has a useful list of "solar analog[ue]s":

https://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Zeta_2_Reticuli.htm

And no, the Greys are most likely NOT from Zeta Reticuli. See this page:

https://www.ufocasebook.com/2009d/hillwilson.html


EDIT: 2,500 posts! ::KT Tunstall voice:: Woo-hoo!
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 72,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
User avatar
k1234567890y
mayan
mayan
Posts: 2376
Joined: 04 Jan 2014 04:47
Contact:

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by k1234567890y »

I wonder if I should also create a megathread for my conworlds' things
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
User avatar
elemtilas
runic
runic
Posts: 2935
Joined: 22 Nov 2014 04:48

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by elemtilas »

k1234567890y wrote: 04 Dec 2020 16:45 I wonder if I should also create a megathread for my conworlds' things
Um. YES!!
Khemehekis
runic
runic
Posts: 2815
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Khemehekis »

Linguifex wrote: 06 Mar 2016 03:56 This is sort of a housekeeping post, primarily for my own organization but others could use it if they're curious.

[*] Taltic (sorry, it's a ZBB link)
"The requested topic does not exist."
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 72,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
User avatar
eldin raigmore
korean
korean
Posts: 5851
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 19:38
Location: SouthEast Michigan

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by eldin raigmore »

Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 07:45
Linguifex wrote: 06 Mar 2016 03:56 This is sort of a housekeeping post, primarily for my own organization but others could use it if they're curious.

[*] Taltic (sorry, it's a ZBB link)
"The requested topic does not exist."
Needs to go to https://www.verduria.org/ instead.

Perhaps https://www.verduria.org/viewtopic.php ... tic#p28565?
Khemehekis
runic
runic
Posts: 2815
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Khemehekis »

So Man in Space is Linguifex?

Linguifex is one of the most workmanlike conlangers I know. Look at that bicycle helmet in the avatar. Doesn't it look workmanlike?

EDIT: Ha! Linguifex no longer has the cyclist avatar!
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 72,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
User avatar
Man in Space
roman
roman
Posts: 1007
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 08:07
Location: Ohio

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Man in Space »

eldin raigmore wrote: 05 Dec 2020 14:06
Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 07:45
Linguifex wrote: 06 Mar 2016 03:56 This is sort of a housekeeping post, primarily for my own organization but others could use it if they're curious.

[*] Taltic (sorry, it's a ZBB link)
"The requested topic does not exist."
Needs to go to https://www.verduria.org/ instead.

Perhaps https://www.verduria.org/viewtopic.php ... tic#p28565?
No, the thread in question vanished, I think, even before the switch to the new domain. Right now all that exists of Taltic is a few Google Docs, some loans into CT, and, likely in very poor shape in a landfill somewhere, some notes that I took a few years ago when I was in Roswell.
Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 14:59So Man in Space is Linguifex?
Yep. I've been debating whether I should request a username change on here. It would lessen the confusion of people thinking I'm affiliated with Linguifex proper.
Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 14:59Linguifex is one of the most workmanlike conlangers I know.
[:D] Thank you!
Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 14:59Look at that bicycle helmet in the avatar. Doesn't it look workmanlike?

EDIT: Ha! Linguifex no longer has the cyclist avatar!
Yep, the Pogostick Man from Happy Wheels has been replaced by the word "Caber" in Caber.

So Proto-Taltic was devised when a user on the ZBB got a wonderful gleb phonology where vowels outnumbered consonants two-to-one. The only consonants were /t k kʷ s l/ (well, sort of; the allophony rules inadvertently phonemicized a sixth phoneme, /tʷʲ/); other than that, you had your basic ten-vowel system. Grammar-wise, PTa is highly synthetic and basically exclusively prefixing.

There was also inalienable possession. Body parts were inalienably possessed, as were the following:

*kɤs "basket"
*tu "home(town)"
*ɯitʲ "soul"
*kitʲʷ "tunic, shirt"
*kʷɔtɔɛtʲ "property, premises"
*ke "voice"
*kulsɯkʷ "meal"
*leɕakʷ "grave"
*ɔɯs "birth"
*ɔkɤlɔ "death"

I still have the old posts backed up in a Google Doc; if I can figure out how to format them for a bulletin board, perhaps I will post them in this thread somewhere if I get the chance.

Thanks for all the feedback! With regards to the system, when thinking about it, I decided that the companion star's apparent magnitude was a major consideration—I didn't want the night to be day-lite. To that end, I've opted to go with Xi Boötis A. The secondary is a K- or M-type star that only gets a little closer to its primary than Uranus is from our Sun, and that's another weighted factor as such stars have lower luminosities and, therefore, appear dimmer. Xi Boötis A is also a variable star with a reasonably short period; I think this might be useful in determining methods of time measurement. (Now to run Xi Boo's data through the Planet Calculator…)
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
Khemehekis
runic
runic
Posts: 2815
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
Location: California über alles

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Khemehekis »

Linguifex wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:26
Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 14:59So Man in Space is Linguifex?
Yep. I've been debating whether I should request a username change on here. It would lessen the confusion of people thinking I'm affiliated with Linguifex proper.
Wait . . . you mean that website called Linguifex isn't your doing? I fell right into that pit! [o.O]
Linguifex wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:26
Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 14:59Linguifex is one of the most workmanlike conlangers I know.
[:D] Thank you!
You're welcome!
Linguifex wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:26
Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 14:59EDIT: Ha! Linguifex no longer has the cyclist avatar!
Yep, the Pogostick Man from Happy Wheels has been replaced by the word "Caber" in Caber.
So that's what your alternate name Pogostick Man means? The cyclist guy with the helmet? Can't say I'm familiar with Happy Wheels.

(Of course, having communicated with you via email to send you the LCV, I also know your real name.)
Linguifex wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:26So Proto-Taltic was devised when a user on the ZBB got a wonderful gleb phonology where vowels outnumbered consonants two-to-one. The only consonants were /t k kʷ s l/ (well, sort of; the allophony rules inadvertently phonemicized a sixth phoneme, /tʷʲ/); other than that, you had your basic ten-vowel system. Grammar-wise, PTa is highly synthetic and basically exclusively prefixing.
Amazing backstory! Xavante has an equal number of vowels and consonants. If you count the long vowels and diphthongs as separate phonemes, Hawaiian's even Taltickier than Proto-Taltic, though.
Linguifex wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:26There was also inalienable possession. Body parts were inalienably possessed, as were the following:

*kɤs "basket"
*tu "home(town)"
*ɯitʲ "soul"
*kitʲʷ "tunic, shirt"
*kʷɔtɔɛtʲ "property, premises"
*ke "voice"
*kulsɯkʷ "meal"
*leɕakʷ "grave"
*ɔɯs "birth"
*ɔkɤlɔ "death"
Beautiful! I was surprised to see "basket" was inalienable. There must be some cultural story behind that. Were the Proto-Talts a people who always walked around with fruit baskets on their heads, perhaps?
Linguifex wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:26Thanks for all the feedback!
You're welcome!
Linguifex wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:26With regards to the system, when thinking about it, I decided that the companion star's apparent magnitude was a major consideration—I didn't want the night to be day-lite. To that end, I've opted to go with Xi Boötis A. The secondary is a K- or M-type star that only gets a little closer to its primary than Uranus is from our Sun, and that's another weighted factor as such stars have lower luminosities and, therefore, appear dimmer. Xi Boötis A is also a variable star with a reasonably short period; I think this might be useful in determining methods of time measurement. (Now to run Xi Boo's data through the Planet Calculator…)
Always nice to find something that works and make things "click" like a functioning seatbelt. And I've had a lot of fun these past few minutes saying "Ítöð" over and over to myself. It's like Almea or Yeola -- a whole world!
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 72,500 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
User avatar
Man in Space
roman
roman
Posts: 1007
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 08:07
Location: Ohio

Re: Linguifex's conworld megathread

Post by Man in Space »

Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:43
Linguifex wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:26
Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 14:59EDIT: Ha! Linguifex no longer has the cyclist avatar!
Yep, the Pogostick Man from Happy Wheels has been replaced by the word "Caber" in Caber.
So that's what your alternate name Pogostick Man means? The cyclist guy with the helmet? Can't say I'm familiar with Happy Wheels.
It is a…I guess at its core it's a platformer or obstacle-course game?…that was designed so that failure was fun.
Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:43
Linguifex wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:26So Proto-Taltic was devised when a user on the ZBB got a wonderful gleb phonology where vowels outnumbered consonants two-to-one. The only consonants were /t k kʷ s l/ (well, sort of; the allophony rules inadvertently phonemicized a sixth phoneme, /tʷʲ/); other than that, you had your basic ten-vowel system. Grammar-wise, PTa is highly synthetic and basically exclusively prefixing.
Amazing backstory! Xavante has an equal number of vowels and consonants. If you count the long vowels and diphthongs as separate phonemes, Hawaiian's even Taltickier than Proto-Taltic, though.
Ah, PTa only had the monophthongs. Any "diphthongs" are sequences of unit vowels in hiatus.
Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:43
Linguifex wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:26There was also inalienable possession. Body parts were inalienably possessed, as were the following:

*kɤs "basket"
*tu "home(town)"
*ɯitʲ "soul"
*kitʲʷ "tunic, shirt"
*kʷɔtɔɛtʲ "property, premises"
*ke "voice"
*kulsɯkʷ "meal"
*leɕakʷ "grave"
*ɔɯs "birth"
*ɔkɤlɔ "death"
Beautiful! I was surprised to see "basket" was inalienable. There must be some cultural story behind that. Were the Proto-Talts a people who always walked around with fruit baskets on their heads, perhaps?
I am not sure yet, though that would make sense. Coming from a very mountainous region as they do I could see it.
Khemehekis wrote: 05 Dec 2020 19:43 Always nice to find something that works and make things "click" like a functioning seatbelt. And I've had a lot of fun these past few minutes saying "Ítöð" over and over to myself. It's like Almea or Yeola -- a whole world!
Seeing this was extremely gratifying. Thank you.

OK, so having run things through Shagomir's Planet Calculator:

- A day on Ítöð is a bit over 26 hours long (the solar day is 26.12 hours; the sidereal day, 26.02).
- A local year is 253.1 local days, or almost 275.5 Earth days.
- Radius and mass are both ~102% that of Earth. Density is 96%; gravity, 98%.
- There's two moons. The inner moon is about 390'000 km from the planet and orbits in 28.12 local days. The outer moon is some 692'000 km from the planet and it orbits in 65.62 local days. This essentially works out to a stable 3:7 resonance, if I read Wikipedia correctly.
- SolStation reports a variability of 10.137 Earth days (or about 9.35 days on Ítöð).
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
User avatar
Man in Space
roman
roman
Posts: 1007
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 08:07
Location: Ohio

Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Plurals in CT operate by one of a few mechanisms. There are three typical methods, depending on the shape of the word: Metathesis, decomposition, and a pluralizing particle.

Metathetic plurals only occur with the five cardinal vowels a e i o u (in either tone) and in words beginning with a consonant. Note that in this instance you can occasionally end up with syllables in VCC, the only time in the language where such is permitted.

kámr 'city' > ákmr 'cities'
kaá 'building, structure' > aká 'buildings'
híar 'tray' > íhar 'trays'
limgór 'pillar' > ilmgór 'pillars'
gasgół 'moat, trench' > agsgół 'trenches'

Of note with metathetic plurals is that ʕ is given to vocalizing to low-tone a when it ends up between a consonant and another consonant or between a consonant and a word boundary.

taʕni 'ad-hoc solution' > atani 'ad-hoc solutions'
miʕ 'locust' > ima 'locusts'

A select few words with initial vowels, such as ikłe 'time, instance', have metathetic plurals (kiłe 'current events, news'). This is typically regarded as having a slang feel.

Decomposed plurals typically occur with the four hybrid vowels ö ü ë ï (again, in either tone). These "decompose" around the initial consonant; the beginning of the word, in most cases, takes a prefixed, low-tone u (if the first vowel is ö or ü) or i (if it is ë or ï). The second vowel then unrounds (if it is front) or rounds (if it is back) but retains its tone.

röð 'duty, charge, responsibility' > ureð 'charges, tasks, responsibilities'
kîĝï 'sweet pastry' > ikúĝï 'pastries'
ðûs 'chin' > uðís 'jaws'
tühén 'star' > utihén 'stars'
sëtó 'zơdo-fruit' > isotó 'zơdo-fruits'

Particular plurals occur when the word starts with a syllable nucleus, be that a vowel or a syllabic consonant, or when the nucleus of the initial syllable is a syllabic consonant.

'inlet' > aĝ ar 'inlets'
mhon 'saddle' > mhon ar 'saddles'
kntr 'saddle blanket' > kntr ar 'saddle blankets'
grmaʕ 'warning' > grmaʕ ar 'warnings'
ítkantr 'overhang' > ítkantr ar 'overhangs'

One notable exception to the vowel-first tendency is that of the name Tim Ar itself. This is an adjective (tim 'eternal') used substantively. The use of ar was a deliberate choice by the upper class as a nationalist/populist method of distinguishing themselves as a people from others.

----

Full reduplication is used in an augmentative sense or to imply that the referent is an outstanding example of its reference.

kałto 'idiot' > kałtokałto 'arch-idiot'
tïr 'wound, injury' > tïrtïr 'mortal wound'
kôr 'topic, discussion point' > kôrkôr 'thesis, argument'
ugal 'area above' > ugalugal 'summit, peak, top'
hanït 'experience' > hanïthanït 'traumatizing event'

Only the first element of the two is changed when pluralizing:

kałtokałto > akłtokałto 'arch-idiots'
tïrtïr > iturtïr 'mortal wounds'
kôrkôr > ukérkôr 'theses'
hanïthanït > ahnïthanït 'traumatizing events'

----

In CT, the nearer moon was called Éĝtis Kahál 'Strong Moon', and the farther moon was called Éĝtis Nihít 'Weak Moon'; cf. téngo kahál 'one hundred ten' (lit. 'strong hundred') and téngo nihít 'ninety' (lit. 'weak hundred').

----

The Tim Ar have a broad-brush method of classifying peoples according to their origin:

- There are the Tim Ar themselves;
- There are the Hia (< CK fi-a 'people of ten'), a catchall term for all groups derived from the Proto-Tim Ar-O cultural complex;
- There are the Kán, which refers to the various peoples of the Caber groups, particularly of the contingent of Mute Caber within the empire;
- There are the Uikúa (< CK wiqhu-a 'people of twelve'), a term grouping several related/unrelated peoples mostly on basis of who had conquered or fought them at various points;
- And there are the Kia (< CK gi-a 'people of six'), which is essentially a wastebasket taxon for everybody else.

This was somewhat inherited from the Classical Khaya, who basically filed peoples in bins depending on the number base they count in. The Khaya themselves, for example, had a base-twelve system; the Tim Ar used base-ten. In modern usage, the terms aren't so much markers of number as they are of geographic and cultural reference—e.g. there are groups classified as Kia who count in bases other than six.

Incidentally, base-six is the most-common numeric base system on Ítöð.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
User avatar
Man in Space
roman
roman
Posts: 1007
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 08:07
Location: Ohio

Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

On the ZBB, Vilike wrote: So Tim Ar is plural. What about the other people names? Are they collectives, or can they be pluralised according to the rules found in this post?
They're sort of indeclinable non-verbs. You could say, for instance, áʕe Kán hé 'he is Caber', or you could say taĝkei áłaʕ Kán ü 'the Caber (people) submitted' (implication: it was in the past and is irrelevant now), or you could say áʕe giʕüł ĝ 'us gohíe Kán ü 'the Caber ascetic is my opponent'.

----

One thing I forgot to mention in the previous post is a special case of decomposed plurals. In a select few cases where the word begins with a resonant and a high-tone vowel, this will decompose into two of the same vowel, with a prefixed, low-tone vowel being attached to the consonant that begins the word and the original vowel remaining where it stands:

móm 'mother' > omóm 'mothers'
ĝóia 'ngoia plant' > oĝóia 'ngoia plants'

----

CT divided the color space into three regions, namely síkna (white and warm colors), hún (black and cool colors), and kiĝ (red).

----

Grammarians in CT recognize, essentially, three parts of speech: isúu ('islands', sg. sîu), ikʕe ('currents', sg. kiʕe), and eĝnr ar ('flotsam'). The categories are unusual, to say the least—isúu cover what we would consider nouns and verbs, as well as most derivational morphemes; ikʕe cover modifiers—i.e. adjectives, adverbs, numbers, measure words, and inpositions; and eĝnr ar cover everything else. Including nouns and verbs in the same category makes more sense, I think, given that CT is absolutely riddled with zero-derivation. The prototypical case of zero-derivation is that of the resultative from a verb—e.g. tékða 'day, 24-hour period' < tékða 'to return', or magneg 'blueprint, plan, schedule' < magneg 'to plan'.

The metaphor here is that a sentence is like a river. You have the primary content words—the verbs and nouns—that are the "islands" in the stream, which are affected by the currents (modifiers). Everything else is kind of just carried along by the current and floats on by.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
User avatar
Man in Space
roman
roman
Posts: 1007
Joined: 03 Aug 2012 08:07
Location: Ohio

Re: Twin Aster (Linguifex's conworld megathread)

Post by Man in Space »

Doing some work on calculating certain cycles…

One solar day on Ítöð is about 26.12 hours. A year is 253.10 days, or about three-quarters of an Earth year. There is also a variability cycle in the magnitude of Xi Boo A of about 9.31 local days; three of these works out to almost 28 days. I am therefore thinking that most cultures on Ítöð will have nine-day weeks and/or 28-day months (as a base).

I've had to adjust the properties of the moons because I didn't know how Hill spheres worked (or, apparently, the fields in the spreadsheet); I wanted to keep the 7:3 resonance, so this is what I ended up with:

Éĝtis Nihít: 685 km radius, 236'046 km orbit, 12.06 local days period, 0.33º angular diameter
Éĝtis Kahál: 1'971 km radius, 417'004 km orbit, 28.12 local days period, 0.55º angular diameter

Éĝtis Kahál can provide both annular and total eclipses. Its angular diameter varies from 0.53º to 0.56º; that of Xi Boötis A varies from 0.54º to 0.57º.

There is also Kóro ü, the Face. This is an asteroid that was captured into geosynchronous orbit around Ítöð and is used as a sort of traffic control and surveillance platform. The Tim Ar, naturally, run it. I'm not quite sure how big it is yet; maybe 0.6 km in diameter on its longest axis? In any case it has been significantly hollowed out. On the side facing outward there are explosive charges that serve sort of a Mutually Assured Destruction sort of purpose—as an absolute last resort it could be deorbited. On either end there are large radar arrays extending outward. There are also weapons installations facing planetward and it can serve as an orbital strike platform, and its size also serves as a defense (since nobody wants to risk blowing it up into large chunks which could wreck everything in cisplanetary space or, worse, crash into the planet below and cause significant destruction.

----

I also worked some with the Titius-Bode law and get the following distances in AU:

0.456, 0.798, 1.14, 1.824, 3.192, 5.928

Not entirely sure of the layout of the system planets/asteroid belt(s) specifically yet.

----

Ítöðkámr, or World City, is a massive planned settlement in the Kmtön n Tim Ar that was essentially set up to serve as a United Nations-sort of territory. It's built at the intersection of the equator and prime meridian of Ítöð, the idea being that it's at the zero point of the world (being located within the Kmtön, and in the Core Imperium at that, was also a consideration). Within the Kmtön, Ítöðkámr is specifically located in the namestnichestvo of Éí.

----

CT had a name for Xi Boötis B in the original language, Haðál Moustá n Taáð ("King of the Sky"), though a name of more recent vintage for it is Haʕkün êr Háka ("Second Sun").
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
Post Reply