Eggs or not
- LinguistCat
- sinic
- Posts: 325
- Joined: 06 May 2017 07:48
Eggs or not
All else being equal, what would you expect would be the differences between a species that lays eggs (or some equivalent) and one that has live birth like mammals? So these are specifically Earth species and the only difference is one lays eggs and the other gives live birth. If one produces a milk equivalent, the other does too and likewise if one doesn't both do not. They are in the same niche and about the same size, are awake at the same times, etc unless you think that aspect would be affected.
Re: Eggs or not
Well, some mammals do lay eggs (echidna) . . . and some reptiles (certain snakes) and some fish (some sharks I recall) give live birth.LinguistCat wrote:All else being equal, what would you expect would be the differences between a species that lays eggs (or some equivalent) and one that has live birth like mammals?
The wonder here, of course, would be a species that gives dead birth. Saves on that whole survival of the fittest thing, you know. Just get extinction over and done with already so you can get on with your day.
Hmmm. . . I guess the difference would be one lays eggs and the other does not. . .
Um.So these are specifically Earth species and the only difference is one lays eggs and the other gives live birth. If one produces a milk equivalent, the other does too and likewise if one doesn't both do not. They are in the same niche and about the same size, are awake at the same times, etc unless you think that aspect would be affected.
What's the question?
Re: Eggs or not
Primarily physiological, in terms of whether the reproductive organs in the female as set up to support live young internally, or set up to produce eggs that must weather the environment.LinguistCat wrote:All else being equal, what would you expect would be the differences between a species that lays eggs (or some equivalent) and one that has live birth like mammals?
Beyond that, I have no expectations. As noted, there are mammals that lay eggs and non-mammals that have live birth.
Re: Eggs or not
One thing to consider, perhaps, (and exceptions abound) is that laying eggs will generally allow a parent to spend less time growing a child in their body, which might have advantages for species that need mobility. Species that give birth to live young that can't yet see, run etc. will need to spend time looking after them post-birth as well; the same species, were it egg-laying, could gestate for the same period, but allow their young to develop further out-with their body.
On the other hand, animals like humans or kangaroos can simply carry their helpless young as they move around, while their offspring continues to develop, whereas an egg-laying animal would have to protect its nest, or simply abandon it and hope (depending on whether it was a k- or r-type species).
On the other hand, animals like humans or kangaroos can simply carry their helpless young as they move around, while their offspring continues to develop, whereas an egg-laying animal would have to protect its nest, or simply abandon it and hope (depending on whether it was a k- or r-type species).
Sin ar Pàrras agus nì sinne mar a thogras sinn. Choisinn sinn e agus ’s urrainn dhuinn ga loisgeadh.
Re: Eggs or not
Yes, behaviourally the problem of how to look after eggs is the big difference I think.
Before that, though, live birth means lengthy pregnancy, which is a bugger for the survival of the mother. So viviparous animals tend to shortcut the process and give birth to young that aren't properly developed. They're much more likely to have fundamental incapacities. Human young, for instance, have very bad eyesight (basically can't see anything that's not almost touching their face), no ability to walk, limited ability even to crawl or to grab, extremely limited digestion (basically just milk, and they even need special milk at first) and no teeth, little control over bodily functions, little psychological independence (requiring external comforting, for instance), little awareness of their world, little ability to communicate coherently, and basically extreme stupidity. It takes decades for human young to fully develop their intellectual capabilities. Humans are of course an extreme example, but this is a general trend among viviparous creatures.
Egg-layers, on the other hand, can let their young develop much more inside the egg before hatching, and thus their young are more immediately independent, and in some cases are basically functional (though small and ignorant) adults from birth.
Before that, though, live birth means lengthy pregnancy, which is a bugger for the survival of the mother. So viviparous animals tend to shortcut the process and give birth to young that aren't properly developed. They're much more likely to have fundamental incapacities. Human young, for instance, have very bad eyesight (basically can't see anything that's not almost touching their face), no ability to walk, limited ability even to crawl or to grab, extremely limited digestion (basically just milk, and they even need special milk at first) and no teeth, little control over bodily functions, little psychological independence (requiring external comforting, for instance), little awareness of their world, little ability to communicate coherently, and basically extreme stupidity. It takes decades for human young to fully develop their intellectual capabilities. Humans are of course an extreme example, but this is a general trend among viviparous creatures.
Egg-layers, on the other hand, can let their young develop much more inside the egg before hatching, and thus their young are more immediately independent, and in some cases are basically functional (though small and ignorant) adults from birth.
Re: Eggs or not
Well, some egg-layers have precocious young, which can walk, feed, and (sort of) fend for themselves. Most reptiles are born this way, and some birds come sort of close, specifically ratites, chickens and their ilk, ducks & geese, which are born with the ability to walk, and also have the scratching or pecking (i.e. feeding) reflexes down pat right after birth. They just need protection by adults.
A number of egg-layers have altricial young, which are nest-bound, often blind, unfeathered, unable to move in a coordinated way, and depend upon one or both parents for food, warmth and protection to help complete their growth into independence. The vast majority of birds are in this grouping, as are the mammalian monotremes.
Incidentally, some live-bearing mammals have young that are precocious (e.g. most ungulates), while others have young that are altricial ( e.g. most carnivores, primates, rodents, insectivores, marsupials).
A number of egg-layers have altricial young, which are nest-bound, often blind, unfeathered, unable to move in a coordinated way, and depend upon one or both parents for food, warmth and protection to help complete their growth into independence. The vast majority of birds are in this grouping, as are the mammalian monotremes.
Incidentally, some live-bearing mammals have young that are precocious (e.g. most ungulates), while others have young that are altricial ( e.g. most carnivores, primates, rodents, insectivores, marsupials).
Re: Eggs or not
Certainly, no egg-laying reptile, nor bird, would feed it's young with mammary glands:
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... e3a55f.jpg
A mother reptile or bird, if it cared for its young, most probably would feed it by regurgitation:
http://www.thelostpaleontribe.com/image ... _young.jpg
https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/73 ... e3a55f.jpg
A mother reptile or bird, if it cared for its young, most probably would feed it by regurgitation:
http://www.thelostpaleontribe.com/image ... _young.jpg
- LinguistCat
- sinic
- Posts: 325
- Joined: 06 May 2017 07:48
Re: Eggs or not
I suppose the main difference then is that with eggs, it doesn't have to be one parent supplying all the care and resources before the offspring are "born" (though the mother would still be supplying a majority while the eggs develop).
So far, in my own case, I'm leaning toward the species I was thinking about being egg-laying.
So far, in my own case, I'm leaning toward the species I was thinking about being egg-laying.
Re: Eggs or not
Except of course for chickens, who are, after all, well known and frequently advertised for their breasts.Lambuzhao wrote:Certainly, no egg-laying reptile, nor bird, would feed it's young with mammary glands:
Yay!LinguistCat wrote:I suppose the main difference then is that with eggs, it doesn't have to be one parent supplying all the care and resources before the offspring are "born" (though the mother would still be supplying a majority while the eggs develop).
So far, in my own case, I'm leaning toward the species I was thinking about being egg-laying.
Will be interesting to see what hatches out!
Re: Eggs or not
I thought you might've mentioned 'dove's milk' :elemtilas wrote:Except of course for chickens, who are, after all, well known and frequently advertised for their breasts.Lambuzhao wrote:Certainly, no egg-laying reptile, nor bird, would feed it's young with mammary glands:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_milk
Which blew my mind the first time I heard about it years ago, and now, reading about it in more detail on wikipedia... mind blown again.
Spoiler:
But if we'd read our Bible, we'd know that the hens in Samaria had the silkiest breasts, and for that reason,
were first for the chopping-block.
Re: Eggs or not
Crop milk bears little physical resemblance to mammalian milk, the former being a semi-solid substance somewhat like pale yellow cottage cheeseLambuzhao wrote:I thought you might've mentioned 'dove's milk' :elemtilas wrote:Except of course for chickens, who are, after all, well known and frequently advertised for their breasts.Lambuzhao wrote:Certainly, no egg-laying reptile, nor bird, would feed it's young with mammary glands:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_milk
Which blew my mind the first time I heard about it years ago, and now, reading about it in more detail on wikipedia... mind blown again.
One more reason to nòt eat cottage cheese!
This is interesting, very interesting indeed! . . .
Gives me some food for thought, and no mistake!Clearly, Dinosauroids bred flamingoes, certain penguins and proto-Dodos to be the crop-milk sheep and goats of the post K-T ~ pre-Eocene.
Re: Eggs or not
Sorry... too late.elemtilas wrote:Crop milk bears little physical resemblance to mammalian milk, the former being a semi-solid substance somewhat like pale yellow cottage cheeseLambuzhao wrote:I thought you might've mentioned 'dove's milk' :elemtilas wrote:Except of course for chickens, who are, after all, well known and frequently advertised for their breasts.Lambuzhao wrote:Certainly, no egg-laying reptile, nor bird, would feed it's young with mammary glands:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crop_milk
Which blew my mind the first time I heard about it years ago, and now, reading about it in more detail on wikipedia... mind blown again.
One more reason to nòt eat cottage cheese!
*chompf* *gulpf*
I am the resident cottage/farmer/qvarkofrescovore
Right?This is interesting, very interesting indeed! . . .
Gives me some food for thought, and no mistake!Clearly, Dinosauroids bred flamingoes, certain penguins and proto-Dodos to be the crop-milk sheep and goats of the post K-T ~ pre-Eocene.
Clever girl(s)...!
http://68.media.tumblr.com/d251f027ef69 ... o1_500.jpg
http://s260.photobucket.com/user/warlok ... 7.jpg.html
Re: Eggs or not
Eww! Masusuka na ako!Lambuzhao wrote:Sorry... too late.elemtilas wrote:One more reason to nòt eat cottage cheese!
*chompf* *gulpf*
I am the resident cottage/farmer/qvarkofrescovore
There are some (properly) avioid folks in The World. I've been visited by visions of a young mother hacking up some delicious crop milk for her youngling and his friends for an after school snack...Lambuzhao wrote:Right?elemtilas wrote:Gives me some food for thought, and no mistake!
Clever girl(s)...!
Re: Eggs or not
Saging para sa lahat ~!elemtilas wrote:Eww! Masusuka na ako!Lambuzhao wrote:Sorry... too late.elemtilas wrote:One more reason to nòt eat cottage cheese!
*chompf* *gulpf*
I am the resident cottage/farmer/qvarkofrescovore
I think there's a saying «you can pick your friends, and you can pick your crop-milk, but you cannot pick...»elemtilas wrote: There are some (properly) avioid folks in The World. I've been visited by visions of a young mother hacking up some delicious crop milk for her youngling and his friends for an after school snack...
Re: Eggs or not
Believe you me! I'd much rather eat a banana any day of the week!Lambuzhao wrote:Saging para sa lahat ~!elemtilas wrote:Eww! Masusuka na ako!
Ya. I'm seeing little junior's friends all grossed out --- eww! your mom's crop-milk smells all wrong! --- it's not like my mom's at all!Lambuzhao wrote:I think there's a saying «you can pick your friends, and you can pick your crop-milk, but you cannot pick...»elemtilas wrote: There are some (properly) avioid folks in The World. I've been visited by visions of a young mother hacking up some delicious crop milk for her youngling and his friends for an after school snack...