Damta: A collaborative world

Discussions about constructed worlds, cultures and any topics related to constructed societies.
Nachtuil
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil »

k1234567890y wrote: 26 Apr 2020 18:26 have not done Damta things recently, maybe I should do Damta things more?
If you want to sure :) Maybe progress the Sitr another era or start a new language family or isolate if you're bored.

Brblues: Do you have any sketchy idea of pronouns for a western Bokisig language during or after their age of confederation? The pre classical Kojikeng are in the market for a new 1st or 2nd pronoun :p
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by brblues »

Nachtuil wrote: 26 Apr 2020 21:01
Brblues: Do you have any sketchy idea of pronouns for a western Bokisig language during or after their age of confederation? The pre classical Kojikeng are in the market for a new 1st or 2nd pronoun :p

Sure, the NOM / ACC (they are identical) Early Bokisig forms are:

1SG /mu/ 2SG /dɛx/ 3SG /ki/ [human] - /ʔe/ [non-human]
1PL INC /munɛdɛx/ 1PL EXC /sig/ 2PL /dɛxdɛx/ 3PL /kisig/ [human] 3PL /ʔeʔe/ [non-human]

Stress in the above form is always on the penultimate syllable.

There are also genitive (inalienable plus alienable) and dative forms, but I think those would be less relevant for borrowing?

I am again - or still - procrastinating on the diachronics, as I feel it might be more efficient to enter all the sound changes into PhoMo on Conworkshop.com so that I can hopefully get my entire dictionary sound-changed automatically, but that means I have to rewrite the rules for that. I can still give you my expected results for a somewhat later stage of the language - if it turns out I made a mistake, that can hopefully be justified by being a dialectal variation, or the Kojikeng just misheard [:D]

So that would be Later Bokisig (not sure yet if this will be the classical stage or not), with distinct NOM vs ACC forms:

NOM
1SG /mu/ 2SG /dɛx/ 3SG /ki [human]
1PL INC/mu'nɛtx/ 1PL EXC ʃɪg 2PL /dɛjtx/ 3PL ki.ki [human]

ACC
1SG /kwu/ 2SG /ʤɛx/ 3SG ki [human]
1PL INC /kwu.'nɛtx/ 1PL EXC /tʃɪg/ 2PL /ʤɛjtx/ 3PL /kiki/ [human]
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by brblues »

I have now uploaded the glossed Early Bokisig translation of the first myth of Pessig, including some comments, on the conworkshop. I will also link it on the relevant fandom-article I made, mostly because the gloss shows up better on there (it might prove quite complicated to gloss on fandom-wikia).

The grey buttons right under the translation can be used to display the gloss and comments.
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Khemehekis »

The sun, however, got mad (about the theft) and did come out again for five hundred years.
I believe you mean "did not come out again".



Great story -- I've never heard a myth quite like that before!
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by brblues »

Khemehekis wrote: 28 Apr 2020 08:55
The sun, however, got mad (about the theft) and did come out again for five hundred years.
I believe you mean "did not come out again".

Great story -- I've never heard a myth quite like that before!
Thank you for the compliment as well as spotting the error - I'd noticed it myself even, but only corrected in one version out of three (the one in my own document plus the ones posted on CWS and fandom, respectively).

The myth is a just-so story explaining why the current Bokisig homeland, the savannah, has no seasonal variation except for the dry and rainy season, but hints at their actual origin lying somewhere with more seasonal variation. It also showcases the origin of the word for the cardinal direction West, /mazsot (= "sun-house"); and that the phrase for "getting angry” is literally “turning onself red”, but actually not derived from a person turning red with anger - the Bokisig people are dark-skinned. It is rather the literal context as in the story – the sun shines red-hot and mercilessly; in the savannah of the Bokisig lands this makes for a very unforgiving experience, and makes the jump to the sun being angry a very reasonable one.
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil »

brblues wrote: 27 Apr 2020 10:46 So that would be Later Bokisig (not sure yet if this will be the classical stage or not), with distinct NOM vs ACC forms:

NOM
1SG /mu/ 2SG /dɛx/ 3SG /ki [human]
1PL INC/mu'nɛtx/ 1PL EXC ʃɪg 2PL /dɛjtx/ 3PL ki.ki [human]

ACC
1SG /kwu/ 2SG /ʤɛx/ 3SG ki [human]
1PL INC /kwu.'nɛtx/ 1PL EXC /tʃɪg/ 2PL /ʤɛjtx/ 3PL /kiki/ [human]
I figure that the Kojikeng would just be used to using it from contact with Bokisig speakers and it would slowly go from a sometimes alternative to a normal part of the grammar yeah :) I definitely will borrow the 2pl pronoun haha.
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by brblues »

I've posted a fair bit about the political landscape and the structure of the Bokisig Confederation on the wiki.

Regarding contact with the other peoples of that time, that could mean:

The Txabao might attack from the west, sensing the weakness of the still fairly young confederation; or trade ties with the Txabao are strengthened, and there is consequently more cultural contact. I feel the latter might be better, unless Khemehekis has his heart set on a war around 8450PS [:D]

The Kodikeng, I think, haven't even split off the Txabao yet at that time, so no chance for shenanigans there.

Kompalia on the other hand is IIRC mostly located on B2 and C2 as well as possibly some D3? That might be too far away geographically, but its not impossible that some interaction might take place if they go further east and find a way across the mountains once the Bokisig confederation has settled E3. Have you thought about what Kompalia and the Likepeg are doing at that time far back in history (8400 to 9000PS)?
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil »

I'm confused. I thought the Txabao would exist and splinter a bit before the rise of the Neduki and the proto-group itself is not the Neduki.
Last edited by Nachtuil on 02 May 2020 18:00, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Khemehekis »

brblues wrote: 02 May 2020 11:50 The Txabao might attack from the west, sensing the weakness of the still fairly young confederation; or trade ties with the Txabao are strengthened, and there is consequently more cultural contact. I feel the latter might be better, unless Khemehekis has his heart set on a war around 8450PS [:D]
I'll go with the latter. More time for the Txabao/Neduki to become accustomed to the wheel, and for the Bokisig to learn of various desert plant staples. I also have a lexicon of 666 words to borrow from.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,666 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by brblues »

Nachtuil wrote: 02 May 2020 16:25 I'm confused. I thought the Txabao would exist and splinter a bit before the rise of the Neduki and the proto-group itself is not the Neduki.
Yes that's exactly how I had thought of it too; to give an approximate date, in what I've sketched so far the Txabao would first cross the mountains around 8000PS, and those Txabao who would go on to settle the area east of the mountains (until then the sole dominion of the Bokisig) would be considered Neduki from then on. I guess what may be confusing could be that a) they themselves would probably still consider themselves Txabao for quite a while and b) conversely, the Bokisig would also consider the actual Txabao (west of the mountains) Neduki for quite a while. So that might have resulted in my using messy terminology.

There would still also need to be a split in which the Kodikeng splinter off from the Txabao, but I assume that would be a lot later?
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by brblues »

Khemehekis wrote: 02 May 2020 17:46
brblues wrote: 02 May 2020 11:50 The Txabao might attack from the west, sensing the weakness of the still fairly young confederation; or trade ties with the Txabao are strengthened, and there is consequently more cultural contact. I feel the latter might be better, unless Khemehekis has his heart set on a war around 8450PS [:D]
I'll go with the latter. More time for the Txabao/Neduki to become accustomed to the wheel, and for the Bokisig to learn of various desert plant staples. I also have a lexicon of 666 words to borrow from.
Yeah I will keep borrowing, earlier today I already borrowed the word for "tequila", and will probably also get the one for "agave", unless those already were present in the Bokisig lands before the Txabao came over.

I've also posted an entry about a specific policy.
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by k1234567890y »

brblues wrote: 02 May 2020 11:50 Kompalia on the other hand is IIRC mostly located on B2 and C2 as well as possibly some D3? That might be too far away geographically, but its not impossible that some interaction might take place if they go further east and find a way across the mountains once the Bokisig confederation has settled E3. Have you thought about what Kompalia and the Likepeg are doing at that time far back in history (8400 to 9000PS)?
maybe not decided about what they would be doing at that time yet
I prefer to not be referred to with masculine pronouns and nouns such as “he/him/his”.
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Khemehekis »

brblues wrote: 03 May 2020 17:46 Yeah I will keep borrowing, earlier today I already borrowed the word for "tequila", and will probably also get the one for "agave", unless those already were present in the Bokisig lands before the Txabao came over.

I've also posted an entry about a specific policy.
ʔaʔobaxus -- nice! And I see the diphthong got broken up in Early Bokisig.

The Compromise Between Fire and Sickle sounds like early environmentalism -- of the type portrayed in Disney's Pocahontas. It would fit right in with the knowledge of nature required by ancient farmers (as Mark Rosenfelder writes about in his books). Too many conworlders forget that not everything in ancient times was like American conservatives today!
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by brblues »

Three weeks since the last post on here [:O]

I've kept working on Early Bokisig despite not publishing anything on here or fandom-wiki; vocabulary items entered on ConWorkShop are now up to 350, and I've recorded my sound changes in the PhoMo format used on there, so that I can more easily create the vocabulary for the daughterlang some time soon.
Khemehekis
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Khemehekis »

Great!

I've added some Bokisig borrowings to Txabao.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

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31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Nachtuil
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil »

I think I want to create a new language family just as a conduit to get Sitr words into Kojikeng before its classical stage around 11 000 PS. I imagine them having some coastal settlements along the western coast and engage in a lot of trade between north and south and the desert people who interact with the coast like the Kojikeng. They would be in the area between around 8500 PS and 10000 PS. If they continue to exist as a language group after I'm not too worried and I don't see them as having a linguistic exclusion zone in that area. It works just as well that they are a minority in most settlements they live in amongst other peoples with other languages existing through different political entities.

Maybe very generally they can serve as a conduit for many languages, cultures and ideas in that region between different groups in touch with the western part of the continent. This new language will remain pretty sketchlike, my main focus for now remaining on the Kojikeng branch of the Txabaoic languages.
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Khemehekis »

Go for it!



https://damta.fandom.com/wiki/Txabao-English_dictionary

I added lots of new words to my dictionary in the past hour. Lots of nouns, verbs, and conjunctions.

Take a look and see if any words are missing. Like, "I really think you should have a Txabao word for 'prestidigitation'" or whatever.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,666 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil »

Khemehekis wrote: 03 Jun 2020 14:01 Go for it!



https://damta.fandom.com/wiki/Txabao-English_dictionary

I added lots of new words to my dictionary in the past hour. Lots of nouns, verbs, and conjunctions.

Take a look and see if any words are missing. Like, "I really think you should have a Txabao word for 'prestidigitation'" or whatever.
I shall take a look :)
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Nachtuil »

The language sketch is called Mpetsa. It is mostly verb final and isolating.
It has this phoneme inventory:
m n ŋ
ᵐp ⁿt ⁿts ᵑk
p t ts k
ᵐb ⁿd ᵑg
b d g
s
r
l w ɰ

i u
e o
ɛ ɔ
a
ẽ õ
ã

/s/ -> [z] / V_V
Syllable structure is CV. Only permissible word final vowels are {i u a ẽ õ ã}

I've used it to figure out an etymology for the Oratsem peninsula and I've also updated the world map in conjunction. I added a large river branch in D4 and D5. This river is known by the Mpetsa speakers as the tsiᵐbu river which means canyon in their language. The river itself is a generally agreed boundary for the peninsula itself and the early Kojikeng speakers interpret this word as tsimbi. The river does have a lot of steep banks and some sections are a true canyon so it makes a handy geographic barrier in that way as well.
Now the early Kojikeng speakers, due to being nomadic pastoralists take the words for face and back and make them prepositions for "before" and "over", together taking the meaning "beyond".

Txabao -> classical Kojikeng
ʔao + dzexsˤi -> o̰ + rasḛ -> o̰ra (rasḛ continues to exist but the adposition derivative is reduced in size phonologically)
“Face” + “back” ->before/infront + on top/over -> beyond/past

tsimbu turns into tsem so the whole peninsula gets the name "o̰ratsem" by the classical age through sound changes, essentially meaning "beyond the tsem" because the time the Kojikeng are using that phrase/term for the region before they end up settling there. Anyway, combined inspiration from India being named after the Indus river and the Dutch province Overijssel literally meaning across the Ijssel river.

No doubt the peninsula would have other names, many older so O̰ratsem is specific to the Kojikeng but perhaps one used by other languages who learn of the peninsula through the Kojikeng.
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Re: Damta: A collaborative world

Post by Khemehekis »

Great story! And that was a clever way to use those two Txabao words! The Oratsem Peninsula will probably keep that name well up to PS 13,000.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,666 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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