Brother’s husband and sister’s wife and so on

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eldin raigmore
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Brother’s husband and sister’s wife and so on

Post by eldin raigmore »

I don’t know whether this should go
in Conlangs, or
here in Conworlds and Concultures, or
in Linguistics and Natlangs.

If a mod decides it should be moved, that’s OK with me if I can still find it.


I have a question about certain kinship terms under specific circumstances which I shall explain.

The questions, which won’t in my opinion make sense without the background I’ll provide after the questions, are:
Spoiler:
Would a person’s kinterm for their father’s husband be “father”?
Would a person’s kinterm for their mother’s wife be “mother”?
Would a man’s kinterm for his brother’s husband be “husband”?
Would a man’s kinterm for his husband’s brother be “husband”?
Would a woman’s kinterm for her sister’s wife be “wife”?
Would a woman’s kinterm for her wife’s sister be “wife”?

Would a woman call her brother’s husband by the same term she’d call her sister’s husband (to wit “husband”) or instead by the same kinterm she’d call her brother’s wife?
Would a man call his sister’s wife by the same term he’d call his brother’s wife (to wit “wife”) or instead by the same kinterm he’d call his sister’s husband?
.......... .......... ..........

I have a far-future interstellar multi species conculture whose founding core or kernel or nucleus is an all-human conculture with a particular kind of classificatory kinship system.

In this system:
Spoiler:
A father’s brother is a father
A father’s sister is NOT a mother
A father’s wife is a mother
A father’s son is a brother
A father’s daughter is a sister

A mother’s brother is NOT a father
A mother’s sister is a mother
A mother’s husband is a father
A mother’s son is a brother
A mother’s daughter is a sister

A brother’s father is a father
A brother’s mother is a mother
A brother’s brother is a brother
A brother’s sister is a sister
A man’s brother’s wife is his wife
A woman’s brother’s wife is NOT her sister and NOT her husband’s sister
A man’s brother’s son is his son
A woman’s brother’s son is NOT her son
A man’s brother’s daughter is his daughter
A woman’s brother’s daughter is NOT her daughter

A sister’s father is a father
A sister’s mother is a mother
A sister’s brother is a brother
A sister’s sister is a sister
A man’s sister’s husband is NOT his brother and NOT his wife’s brother
A woman’s sister’s husband is her husband
A man’s sister’s son is NOT his son
A woman’s sister’s son is her son
A man’s sister’s daughter is NOT his daughter
A woman’s sister’s daughter is her daughter

A woman’s husband’s father is NOT her father
A woman’s husband’s mother is NOT her mother
A woman’s husband’s brother is her husband
A woman’s husband’s sister is NOT her sister and NOT her brother’s wife
A woman’s husband’s wife is her sister
A woman’s husband’s son is her son
A woman’s husband’s daughter is her daughter

A man’s wife’s father is NOT his father
A man’s wife’s mother is NOT his mother
A man’s wife’s brother is NOT his brother and NOT his sister’s husband
A man’s wife’s sister is his wife
A man’s wife’s husband is his brother
A man’s wife’s son is his son
A man’s wife’s daughter is his daughter

A man’s son’s father is his brother
A woman’s son’s father is her husband
A man’s son’s mother is his wife
A woman’s son’s mother is her sister
A son’s brother is a son
A son’s sister is a daughter
A son’s wife is NOT a daughter

A man’s daughter’s father is his brother
A woman’s daughter’s father is her husband
A man’s daughter’s mother is his wife
A woman’s daughter’s mother is her sister
A daughter’s brother is a son
A daughter’s sister is a daughter
.......... .......... ..........

In both the earlier, all-human, conculture, and also the later, multi species, conculture, humans are expected, ideally and circumstances permitting, to marry three times.
* The first time to an older member of the same species opposite sex who has already married once and already had at least one child but is still capable of having at least one more;
* The second time to a younger member of the same species opposite sex who ideally has never been married and ideally never had a child but is able to have a child;
* And the third time to someone, traditionally close to one’s age.

Ideally and traditionally and usually, if one is human, both of one’s first two marriages produce offspring, but one expects no offspring from the third marriage.

As interstellarization proceeds, third marriages are taken to be for companionship, or other reasons having nothing to do with reproduction. Eventually this leads to looser restrictions about who can marry whom. Age differences can be greater; one’s third spouse can be a different species; one’s third spouse can be artificial instead of biological; one’s third spouse can be more closely related than would be permitted for a reproductive marriage; and one’s third spouse can be one’s own sex.

.. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. .. ..

So here are my guesses, but I’d like to hear yours.

One’s father’s husband is another father, just as one’s mother’s husband is.
One’s mother’s wife is another mother, just as one’s father’s wife is.

A man’s brother’s husband is his husband;
and a person’s husband’s brother is their husband.

A woman’s sister’s wife is her wife;
and a person’s wife’s sister is their wife.

A person’s husband’s husband is their brother.
A person’s wife’s wife is their sister.

..........
Spoiler:
Around half or more of the people who have to wonder about what to call their father’s husband or their mother’s wife will (I guess) already be adult by the time it first comes up; most of the rest will (I guess) already be adolescent by then. So maybe they’ll skip the kinterms and just use the personal names?

People who need to figure out what to call their brother’s husbands or their husband’s husbands, and men who need to figure out what to call their husband’s brothers, will (probably, I think) already be old enough for at least their own second marriages, if not their third.

The same goes for people who need to figure out what to call their sister’s wives or their wife’s wives, and women who need to figure out what to call their wife’s sisters. Probably. I think.
Anyone whose child is old enough for their third marriage is quite old themselves. So I didn’t ask about son’s husbands nor daughter’s wives.

.......

For at least this post I’m not going to worry about how species affects kinterms.
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eldin raigmore
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Posts: 5738
Joined: 14 Aug 2010 19:38
Location: SouthEast Michigan

Re: Brother’s husband and sister’s wife and so on

Post by eldin raigmore »

TL;DR
Much shorter version in case you already have the background.

How do, or would, Classificatory Kinterm Systems of the “FB=F and MZ=M” type
(that is, father’s brother is father and mother’s sister is mother),
handle same-sex marriages?
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