(C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

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sangi39
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by sangi39 »

Just a note to Keenir, or anyone else wanting to weigh in on Salmoneus' and Elemtilas' recent replies... Just don't.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by sangi39 »

After some discussion, we have decided to issue a formal warning to Salmoneus. While we recognise that issues have been raised regarding Elemtilas' behaviour in the past (and they were dealt with), we can't be everywhere at once on the board and rely on PMs or reports to keep up to date with continued rule-breaking.

In this particular instance, we can't find anything wrong with Elemtilas' post regarding either magic, or how to handle griffins within a fictional setting. While Salmoneus may take issue with those responses (we recognise the amount of time, effort, and research that went into his responses), his reply was not in line with what we would consider civil behaviour (breaking Rule 1 of the House Rules).

We would appreciate, from both Salmoneus and Elemtilas, that whatever issues they might have with each other, and whatever disagreements they have, that posts and replies remain civil. And that goes, as always, for all members.

Finally, we cannot directly see PMs, but they can still be reported, so if you feel like someone is breaking the House Rules in private, and you feel it needs reporting, then please report it.

I hope the discussion can continue without any further outbursts, but if not, then move on.

Thank you

Sangi39
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by fruityloops »

I wanna ask...Is there a way to not alienate people with some of my settings? I think the common recurring thing with some of my settings is that they take place in low tech yet somewhat spiritual settings with very naturalistic ideals. i'm a sucker for nature and what not. not sure if everyone is into that sort of thing since most of the conpeople in these worlds are largely not human. they're still humanoid...but not human.
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by elemtilas »

fruityloops wrote: 30 Apr 2019 20:22 I wanna ask...Is there a way to not alienate people with some of my settings? I think the common recurring thing with some of my settings is that they take place in low tech yet somewhat spiritual settings with very naturalistic ideals. i'm a sucker for nature and what not. not sure if everyone is into that sort of thing since most of the conpeople in these worlds are largely not human. they're still humanoid...but not human.
I for one haven't felt alienated by your settings. Leastways I hope I haven't come across that way!

I mean, "low tech, spiritual, naturalistic ideals" sound pretty close to a description of The World. It's also fairly typical of general fantasy. How could that be alienating?

I am curious: what makes you think anyone here is alienated?
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Post by fruityloops »

elemtilas wrote: 30 Apr 2019 20:46
fruityloops wrote: 30 Apr 2019 20:22 I wanna ask...Is there a way to not alienate people with some of my settings? I think the common recurring thing with some of my settings is that they take place in low tech yet somewhat spiritual settings with very naturalistic ideals. i'm a sucker for nature and what not. not sure if everyone is into that sort of thing since most of the conpeople in these worlds are largely not human. they're still humanoid...but not human.
I for one haven't felt alienated by your settings. Leastways I hope I haven't come across that way!

I mean, "low tech, spiritual, naturalistic ideals" sound pretty close to a description of The World. It's also fairly typical of general fantasy. How could that be alienating?

I am curious: what makes you think anyone here is alienated?


I wanna have my characters feel more alien in a sense than just a human wearing a funny costume...this can be hard since if you make them too alien...well say good bye to everyone. Ookraia is largely African, mesoamerican, and east asian inspired rather than just plain ole medieval Europe. I know there's plenty of con worlds that are super unique but they're not that common.
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by elemtilas »

fruityloops wrote: 01 May 2019 18:49
elemtilas wrote: 30 Apr 2019 20:46 I am curious: what makes you think anyone here is alienated?


I wanna have my characters feel more alien in a sense than just a human wearing a funny costume...this can be hard since if you make them too alien...well say good bye to everyone.
My take on this is that every one of us who has non-human peoples struggles with this to some degree. Clearly, you wish to really struggle! [;)] In the conversation Khemehekis & me are having, he's asking questions that I can't really answer well. Not because I haven't made up the answers, but because I don't have a firm grasp on how Daine think and experience as regards those questions. Obviously, they aren't human nor is The World a kingdom of hats. There are simply many creatures and peoples who think and behave sufficiently different from us that it becomes quite difficult to treat with properly. I don't think this necessarily means good bye to everyone. It just means there are things that all of us, reader and author together, simply "won't get".

I honestly think you'd really have to work very hard to truly turn us folks (worldbuilders, geopoets, language inventors, etc) away. Those that you do, in my opinion, you'd probably also alienate with the more disgusting habits of ordinary human cultures.
Ookraia is largely African, mesoamerican, and east asian inspired rather than just plain ole medieval Europe. I know there's plenty of con worlds that are super unique but they're not that common.
Since those are perfectly human cultures, I doubt very much you'll alienate anyone on those counts!
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Post by Reyzadren »

fruityloops wrote: 01 May 2019 18:49I wanna have my characters feel more alien in a sense than just a human wearing a funny costume...this can be hard since if you make them too alien...well say good bye to everyone. Ookraia is largely African, mesoamerican, and east asian inspired rather than just plain ole medieval Europe. I know there's plenty of con worlds that are super unique but they're not that common.
tbf, plain ole medieval Europe seems to be rather uncommon here. imo I think most conlangers choose the bronze-age-like/low-tech setting more.

Also, my conworld is not only non-unique, it's super generic (by result, not by design) until the point where I very rarely see such a conworld or genre in any media or forum. So, what you think is common, might not actually be used a lot.
Image conlang summary | Image griushkoent thread
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by elemtilas »

Reyzadren wrote: 02 May 2019 01:13 Also, my conworld is not only non-unique, it's super generic (by result, not by design) until the point where I very rarely see such a conworld or genre in any media or forum. So, what you think is common, might not actually be used a lot.
Reyzadren, I actually find your non-unique & super-generic approach to geopoesy to be uniquely refreshing!
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by LinguoFranco »

Reyzadren wrote: 02 May 2019 01:13
fruityloops wrote: 01 May 2019 18:49I wanna have my characters feel more alien in a sense than just a human wearing a funny costume...this can be hard since if you make them too alien...well say good bye to everyone. Ookraia is largely African, mesoamerican, and east asian inspired rather than just plain ole medieval Europe. I know there's plenty of con worlds that are super unique but they're not that common.
tbf, plain ole medieval Europe seems to be rather uncommon here. imo I think most conlangers choose the bronze-age-like/low-tech setting more.

Also, my conworld is not only non-unique, it's super generic (by result, not by design) until the point where I very rarely see such a conworld or genre in any media or forum. So, what you think is common, might not actually be used a lot.
I find myself going with Medieval Europe a lot as a default since it is just easier for me to work with. I think such a setting can still be very interesting, as long as it is somewhere outside of Western Europe.

I have one world that is vaguely Medieval European, but more Mediterranean.
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Re: (C&C) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by fruityloops »

elemtilas wrote: 30 Apr 2019 20:46 Tue 30 Apr 2019, 19:22
I wanna ask...Is there a way to not alienate people with some of my settings? I think the common recurring thing with some of my settings is that they take place in low tech yet somewhat
someone told me these mantis people were too inhuman thus unrelatable.....

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Post by shimobaatar »

fruityloops wrote: 06 May 2019 17:26 someone told me these mantis people were too inhuman thus unrelatable.....
I know it can be hard not to get hung up on comments like that, but I don't think you have anything to worry about if just one person, or even just a few people, once said that they didn't find your mantis people relatable. Sure, this won't be true for everyone, but in my personal experience, I've encountered quite a few people who seem to have no problem relating to fictional races that don't look very human. It would be pretty hard for anyone to come up with something that has universal appeal, so my advice would be to not worry about it, although I know that's much easier said than done.
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Post by elemtilas »

shimobaatar wrote: 06 May 2019 18:07
fruityloops wrote: 06 May 2019 17:26 someone told me these mantis people were too inhuman thus unrelatable.....
I know it can be hard not to get hung up on comments like that, but I don't think you have anything to worry about if just one person, or even just a few people, once said that they didn't find your mantis people relatable. Sure, this won't be true for everyone, but in my personal experience, I've encountered quite a few people who seem to have no problem relating to fictional races that don't look very human. It would be pretty hard for anyone to come up with something that has universal appeal, so my advice would be to not worry about it, although I know that's much easier said than done.
I agree 100% with shimo.

I have to say, fruityloops, that your Mantisfolk look a lot more relatable than many other alien peoples I've come across! Good case in point are Lorinda Taylor's Termite Folk. They are, quite essentially, big alien termites:

Image

They have no physical human characteristics whatsoever. Yours have a bipedal stance, an insecto-humanoid body plan, they wear clothing, the clothing is tailored and patterned; their limbs and digits appear quite "human" and their overall shape is quite "relatable". Lorinda's Termites are, well, big bugs. They don't become relatable at all until you get to know their culture, and even then, they're big bugs! They do things that we don't really connect with, but as people, the Termites are still entirely relatable.

I shouldn't worry about what one "someone" told you. After all, aren't there now (at least!) two of us countering that perspective?
Edit: By the way, Lorinda's Termite Queen books are well worth the read!!
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elemtilas wrote: 06 May 2019 18:53 […] Yours have a bipedal stance, an insecto-humanoid body plan, they wear clothing, the clothing is tailored and patterned […]
Not only that, but they wear the clothing in the same places a human would, and it appears to be of a style that actually exists. Just looking at your picture, fruityloops, the mantis people seem plenty relatable to me. (They also remind me of a cute mini-comic that many people seemed to relate to.)
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Dormouse559 wrote: 07 May 2019 00:29
elemtilas wrote: 06 May 2019 18:53 […] Yours have a bipedal stance, an insecto-humanoid body plan, they wear clothing, the clothing is tailored and patterned […]
Not only that, but they wear the clothing in the same places a human would,
And yes, you said it perfectly! The clothing did actually bother me when I wrote earlier, but couldn't quite articulate. After thinking about it, this is my impression:

the clothing make your Mantisfolk look totally relatable for two reasons: first, the lower garment (the split sarong / kilt / loincloth thing) covers their crotch, exactly like how a human wearing a loincloth would look; second, the upper garment styles cover their prothorax, that part of the body that roughly corresponds to the upper chest, and very conveniently, that is exactly the region of human female tits which are typically covered exactly as you portray.

Your pictures also, I notice, give the (false, I think) impression that Mantisfolk have a human-like anatomical appearance --- they seem to have human-like pectoral & abdominal musculature, or at least they have visual features that cue that response in a human observer.

I'd point out that actual mantises (Earth insects) have no visible musculature, and thus no pex-n-sixpacks. I'd also point out that actual Earth mantises' sexual organs out at the end of their abdominal segments, not between their legs, the one major part of their bodies you leave completely uncovered with delicious irony.

So yeah, wearing clothing in a (Western) human-expected fashion makes me wonder even more about these "someones" who say your folk utterly unrelatable!

and it appears to be of a style that actually exists.
Icing on the cake!
Just looking at your picture, Fruityloops, the mantis people seem plenty relatable to me. (They also remind of remind me of a cute mini-comic that many people seemed to relate to.)
Well, at least the "guy" Mantis likes won't savagely butcher him and eat his dying carcass on their first date!
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Post by Dormouse559 »

elemtilas wrote: 07 May 2019 00:44Well, at least the "guy" Mantis likes won't savagely butcher him and eat his dying carcass on their first date!
Swipe-right material right there!
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Dormouse559 wrote: 07 May 2019 08:06
elemtilas wrote: 07 May 2019 00:44Well, at least the "guy" Mantis likes won't savagely butcher him and eat his dying carcass on their first date!
Swipe-right material right there!
[xD]
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Post by fruityloops »

elemtilas wrote: 07 May 2019 00:44
Dormouse559 wrote: 07 May 2019 00:29
elemtilas wrote: 06 May 2019 18:53 […] Yours have a bipedal stance, an insecto-humanoid body plan, they wear clothing, the clothing is tailored and patterned […]
Not only that, but they wear the clothing in the same places a human would,
And yes, you said it perfectly! The clothing did actually bother me when I wrote earlier, but couldn't quite articulate. After thinking about it, this is my impression:

the clothing make your Mantisfolk look totally relatable for two reasons: first, the lower garment (the split sarong / kilt / loincloth thing) covers their crotch, exactly like how a human wearing a loincloth would look; second, the upper garment styles cover their prothorax, that part of the body that roughly corresponds to the upper chest, and very conveniently, that is exactly the region of human female tits which are typically covered exactly as you portray.

Your pictures also, I notice, give the (false, I think) impression that Mantisfolk have a human-like anatomical appearance --- they seem to have human-like pectoral & abdominal musculature, or at least they have visual features that cue that response in a human observer.

I'd point out that actual mantises (Earth insects) have no visible musculature, and thus no pex-n-sixpacks. I'd also point out that actual Earth mantises' sexual organs out at the end of their abdominal segments, not between their legs, the one major part of their bodies you leave completely uncovered with delicious irony.

So yeah, wearing clothing in a (Western) human-expected fashion makes me wonder even more about these "someones" who say your folk utterly unrelatable!

and it appears to be of a style that actually exists.
Icing on the cake!
Just looking at your picture, Fruityloops, the mantis people seem plenty relatable to me. (They also remind of remind me of a cute mini-comic that many people seemed to relate to.)
Well, at least the "guy" Mantis likes won't savagely butcher him and eat his dying carcass on their first date!
(most of my bug people are flat chested to small breasted since nowadays i realized having prominent boobs on a insect seems super silly at best...then again this could be explained away through "ego" a new concept i introduced...)
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Post by alynnidalar »

fruityloops wrote: 07 May 2019 18:42 small breasted
Why would insects have any mammary glands at all...?
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Post by eldin raigmore »

alynnidalar wrote: 07 May 2019 19:37
fruityloops wrote: 07 May 2019 18:42 small breasted
Why would insects have any mammary glands at all...?
Maybe they have “breasts” the same way gamefowl and songbirds have “breasts”? Maybe their wing-muscles make their chests puff out some?
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Post by alynnidalar »

In that case I would expect all insects to have similar chests, with little connection to gender.
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