Ramblings of a 中文 Learner

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Lao Kou
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Re: Ramblings of a 中文 Learner

Post by Lao Kou »

DesEsseintes wrote:Uhm... woof here doesn't mean barking sound.
Thank you. [xP]
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Thrice Xandvii
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Re: Ramblings of a 中文 Learner

Post by Thrice Xandvii »

So it took me a bit to figure out what else it could possibly mean... I thought the whole comment was just a homophone joke rolled into my mention of "fabric."

I had never heard woof used to mean warp, as in warp and weft.
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Re: Ramblings of a 中文 Learner

Post by lhykv »

Lao Kou wrote:
XXXVII wrote:So I could say:

一些馬吃了一些草.
A few horses ate some grass.
You could. Don't expect a Pulitzer for it, but it's okay. [:)]
Well, as a native speaker, this sentence seems a bit unnatural to me.
First, you can use 有instead of一. Both have the same meaning.
As for 吃了一些草, generally we don't say like that, but instead 吃了點草.
So 一/有 些馬(剛)吃了點草 would sound much better.

PS: The reason why I used 點 instead of 些 in 吃了點草 is that we tend not to use the same word twice in a sentence, otherwise it would be a bit clumsy.
As for 剛, I think adding this character would do no harm (although its equivalent in English would be 'just').
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Re: Ramblings of a 中文 Learner

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DesEsseintes wrote:I just wanted to point out to XXXVII that using 女人 can be considered quite offensive. You may catch young girls mock-insulting each other with phrases like 你这个女人! but do note that you will not get away with the same, presuming you are male.

Strangely, 女的 as in 来了一个女的 is often used as an informal word for woman, and is not considered offensive, albeit not elegant. I found this bewildering at first, and it explains an unfortunate pitfall for Chinese learners of English who have on occasion been heard to remark that "a female came here looking for you", leaving one to wonder exactly which animal species is being referred to.
XXXVII wrote:I used 此 because I just learned it as a precursor to 些. Speaking of...

So I could say:

一些馬吃了一些草.
A few horses ate some grass.

Hmmm, 女士 sorta the lady equivalent to "gentleman scholar"? I learned 士 as knight or scholar.

And as for my lack of 了? I used 吃 there mostly because I didn't know how to say bite or chewed on. In my head, the scenario was a man bringing an injured woman to confront a zombie who had been eating her... but obviously hadn't finished since she was still walking around. (The zombie was ashamed. [:P] )
There are loads of words to describe the femininity:

- 雌性♀: contrast to 雄性♂, (both under the category of 性別sex/gender) this is generally used to describe species in a general sense. For example, 雌激素=estrogen (雌from 雌性) and 激素, or hormone. (we use the loan word 荷爾蒙 as well)
- 女性:(contrast to 男性)also a kind of sex/gender, but usually used to describe the human species. For example, 女性權利 (women's rights)
- 女人:(contrast to 男人)translated as 'woman'. During conversations, you don't call a female as 'you, woman'. This would be quite offensive. HOWEVER, in bible translations, the term 女人 is generally used to refer the femininity (when talking about ethnicity in the Bible).
- 姑娘: a much more polite way to describe a female. The word 小 can be added in front of 姑娘, which means 'little girl'.
- 女士: a polite way to address the females, especially in public. 先生女士們, or ladies and gentlemen, is a great example. Also, 女士洗手間 is another common usage. 洗手間 literally means 'a place for washing hands', which is the lavatory.
- 女童: a formal word to address a young girl. Maybe in the news. 一名女童被發現... 'A girl is found...' (名is the formal nominal measure word for a person; 被 is the character used for passive; 發現 is a compound word for 'find out, discover')
- 女孩、少女: a less formal way to address a young girl. You can add 子after 女孩 (i.e. 女孩子) if you like. 少女 is a girl in her adolescence, if you like K-POP, then you probably would have heard of 少女時代 (소녀시대), or Girl's Generation.
- 小姐: the same as miss.
- 太太: the same as Mrs., although the surname is put before 太太, e.g. 王太太 Mrs. Wang.
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Re: Ramblings of a 中文 Learner

Post by Lao Kou »

lhykv wrote:
Lao Kou wrote:
XXXVII wrote:So I could say:

一些馬吃了一些草.
A few horses ate some grass.
You could. Don't expect a Pulitzer for it, but it's okay. [:)]
Well, as a native speaker, this sentence seems a bit unnatural to me.
Hence, no Pulitzer. XXXVII was/is trying to form sentences with the characters he is learning (a list of which, though presumably larger now, can be found on page 1 of this thread). With that constraint, sentences are footbound to come off "a bit unnatural" and Monty Pythonesque, but that's part of the fun.
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Re: Ramblings of a 中文 Learner

Post by Thrice Xandvii »

Actually, considering how long its been since I last studied or attempted to learn new characters, I've probably lost some. I need to renew this project!

The last time I sat down to do it though, I very much wasn't in the mood for learning and it didn't go far.

Thanks very much for your input, lhykv, and in so doing, bringing this thread back to the fore! 謝謝!!
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Re: Ramblings of a 中文 Learner

Post by Thrice Xandvii »

Is "點" a measure word for grass? And how is 有 being used in that sentence? Can you give me a gloss or word by word translation there? The more literal the translation, the better!
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Re: Ramblings of a 中文 Learner

Post by lhykv »

XXXVII wrote:Is "點" a measure word for grass? And how is 有 being used in that sentence? Can you give me a gloss or word by word translation there? The more literal the translation, the better!
1. About 點
Well, 點 cannot be said as a specialized measure word for grass, but instead for general things in colloquial conversations,
e.g. 1.
我 做-了-點 功課。
I do-PST-some homework.
I did some homework.
功 課 literally means work+lesson.


It can be followed by another character 兒 in Mandarin 一點兒(yìdiǎnr), also known as 兒化音 erization. Note that the /n/ will disappear after 兒is put afterwards. This is also quite colloquial.
There are other kinds of adverbs (?), e.g. 一會(兒) and 一下.
e.g. 2.
我 打-了-一會 籃球。
I hit-PST-a.moment basketball.
I played basketball for a moment.
籃 球 literally means basket+ball

You can't say 我打了一點籃球. It's grammatically correct, but very weird.
e.g. 3.
我 只 玩-了-一下。
I only play-PST-shortly.
I only played for a short while.

You can't say 我只玩了一點, same reason as 我打了一點籃球.


2. About 有
This is much easier to understand. 有 literally means to have/be, and in this case 有些 can be translated as '(there) is some'.
一些 actually means the same as 有些. They are both acceptable.
You can even use 的 instead of 些, indicating 'some'.
e.g. 4.
有的 喜歡,有的 不-喜歡。
Some like, some NEG-like.
(i) Someone likes it, but someone doesn't.
(ii) (I) like some of them, but not all of them.

Notice that there is no subject in the sentence, so it can either be "有的 indicating a person", or "a missing I" in the other possible explanation.
However, if 有些 is used, then only (ii) would be valid. (有些 cannot be indicating a person)


As for the original sentence 有些馬剛吃了點草:
有些 馬 剛 吃了點 草。
a.few horse just eat-PST-some grass.
A few horses just ate some grass.
Last edited by lhykv on 14 Aug 2014 08:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Ramblings of a 中文 Learner

Post by lhykv »

Lao Kou wrote:
lhykv wrote:
Lao Kou wrote:
XXXVII wrote:So I could say:

一些馬吃了一些草.
A few horses ate some grass.
You could. Don't expect a Pulitzer for it, but it's okay. [:)]
Well, as a native speaker, this sentence seems a bit unnatural to me.
Hence, no Pulitzer. XXXVII was/is trying to form sentences with the characters he is learning (a list of which, though presumably larger now, can be found on page 1 of this thread). With that constraint, sentences are footbound to come off "a bit unnatural" and Monty Pythonesque, but that's part of the fun.
Oh, I see now. Thanks [:O] (new here)
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