Ramblings of a 中文 Learner

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Lao Kou
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

Post by Lao Kou »

XXXVII wrote:Tom: 我吉他是哪里?
Wendy: 它不是那?
T: 不, 那是我夫人!
W: 哦.
T: 謝謝.
W: 不謝, 好嗎?
T: 任何

Tom: Where is my guitar?
Wendy: Is it not that?
T: No, that's my wife!
W: Oh.
T: Thanks.
W: No problem, right?
T: Whatever.
[xD]

Tom: 我(的)吉他哪里?
Wendy: 不是那嗎?*
T: 不是, 那是我夫人! (rimshot)
W: 哦.
T: 謝謝.
W: 不謝.
T: 隨便你啊/無論如何** (whatever = if you say so; it's up to you; if that's the way you want it//whatever = no matter what)

* "it" for things is most often not expressed
** "任何" is adjectival (= any), I think, as in, "Give me whatever pencil you have." or "Any pencil will do."
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

Post by Thrice Xandvii »

Lao Kou wrote:Tom: 我(的)吉他哪里?
So, literally, we would have something like "my guitar is at where?"

There goes 在 again being "to be at." Makes a lot of sense to be used here. As an aside, what is "village" (里) doing in "where"?
Wendy: 不是那嗎?
And here, 个 means something like "one" in the phrase "it's not that one?"
T: 隨便你啊/無論如何** (whatever = if you say so; it's up to you; if that's the way you want it//whatever = no matter what)
Surprisingly, I know most of the things you used in the corrections. For "whatever" the "便你啊" part I know, but what's the first character in that one? Similarly, I know "如何" but not the rest.

Also, looks like you mix in some simplified characters, does anyone write only in traditional ones? (For instance you use simplified 個.)

Totally aside, I learned the most stroke-intensive character today, 22 by my count: 歡.
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

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XXXVII wrote:There goes 在 again being "to be at." Makes a lot of sense to be used here. As an aside, what is "village" (里) doing in "where"?
It does mean "village", but it's also the simplified form of "裡" or "裏", meaning "inside". As I prefer the former to the latter, I'd write "where" as "哪裡". I didn't catch it as I was reading.
For "whatever" the "便你啊" I know, but what's the first character in that one?
随 sui2. 随便 covers a lot of turf, but it's kind of "as you like", "it's up to you", "it's all fine by me", etc. 随便你 drives it home that we're following your lead.
Similarly, I know "如何" but not the rest.
無 is wu2, the character you've learned as 无 (that was the original character, I believe, taken over by 無 as the traditional, and now back full circle as the simplified). 無論 (wu2lun4) is "no matter", and you can stick other things behind it; "no matter who" for "whoever" and here 無論如何, "no matter how (it is)" for "no matter what" or "whatever (the situation is like)".
Also, looks like you mix in some simplified characters, does anyone write only in traditional ones? (For instance you use simplified 個, and the short combining form of 言.)
Sorry about that. My computers write in simplified, and if I don't catch it or forget to run a sentence through Google Translate from simplified to traditional, well... [:$] Taiwan and HK (I assume Macau) as well as the diaspora communities write in traditional. The mainland and Singapore use simplified. I handwrite in traditional, 'cause that's what I teethed on, but what I get for input these days is completely up for grabs, and I'm less virulently anti-simplified than I was in my 20s. [:P] So please to forgive if one slips under the radar in this thread (actually, 'twas you who used "里", no?). But for the record, traditional characters are vastly superior in every way. [xD]
Totally aside, I learned the most stroke-intensive character today, 22 by my count: 歡.
21吧。I'll double check when I get home. How many strokes do you have for "grass"?
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

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I had 4 for 艹. Prolly shoulda been 3?
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

Post by Thrice Xandvii »

Lao Kou wrote:Sorry about that. My computers write in simplified, and if I don't catch it or forget to run a sentence through Google Translate from simplified to traditional, well... [:$] Taiwan and HK (I assume Macau) as well as the diaspora communities write in traditional. The mainland and Singapore use simplified. I handwrite in traditional, 'cause that's what I teethed on, but what I get for input these days is completely up for grabs, and I'm less virulently anti-simplified than I was in my 20s. [:P] So please to forgive if one slips under the radar in this thread (actually, 'twas you who used "里", no?). But for the record, traditional characters are vastly superior in every way. [xD
I didn't mean to, actually. I Googled "where" because I knew a few other question words but was missing that one and "how." Since I already knew 里, I didn't think much of it, I didn't actually know it was short for 裡, since I didn't know that one.
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

Post by Lao Kou »

XXXVII wrote:I had 4 for 艹. Prolly shoulda been 3?
Prolly. I think you can get away with four in certain styles of brush calligraphy, but the everyday china (pun originally unintended, 'til I got it myself [:P]) uses three, and 歡's a high frequency character, so cut corners where you can. A website I recommend for showing how to do the strokes is below. It won't show it for every character, to wit:

http://www.zdic.net/z/1c/js/6B61.htm

but it does for a lot, like:

http://www.zdic.net/z/1e/js/737E.htm

I'm sure I've encountered other sites that do the same thing but with English explanantions.
XXXVII wrote:I Googled "where" because I knew a few other question words but was missing that one and "how." Since I already knew 里, I didn't think much of it, I didn't actually know it was short for 裡, since I didn't know that one.
Setting the target translation language to traditional Chinese should fix that, if you remember. As I said, I myself am not always quick on the draw.

I forgot to mention: 里 for "village" is mostly limited to place names of the "-minster", "-borough/-boro", "-ton", "-ham", "-ville" variety. Near here, a little hamlet called 同里,a name so dull I can barely contain myself, and in Taiwan I lived for a stint in a place called 大里 (I think there a few 大里's around China). It seems to get a bit more airplay as "village" in Japanese, where it's read "sato". 里 is also an old unit of distance, roughly equivalent to 1/3 mile, which means you might actually use it in compounds like 英里, "(English) mile" and 公里, "kilometer". For "in", for my money, 裡 is the way to go. I just like the look of it. The variant 裏 is more mnemonically visual, as the phonetic 里 is actually "inside" the clothing radical rather than off to the right, but as with 事,I find it's hard for mere mortals to write and have it come out nicely. It's also less commonly used.
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

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無論誰吃了我的牛肉是死了!
So... maybe this is a huge longshot, but does this mean: "Whoever ate my beef is dead!"?

I have a feeling this is very not right, *shrug* worth a shot. I get the sense it means something a bit more literal than I was going for, namely "whoever ate my beef, that person is dead." So it comes across less as a threat to a hypothetical person, and more a statement that the guy who ate it died.

And I think I just found my new favorite traditional character... and man, is it freaking bizarre: 龜.

他青的玉龜在書桌上.
His green jade turtle is on the writing desk.
Spoiler:
Another handwriting sample. I seem to have the same problem with Chinese that I do with English on unlined paper: a slow progression of size change as I continue to write. Other than that, and my dificulty with maintaining consistent width and height across both simple and complex characters, I'd like to think it's okay.

Image

I've also discovered that I enjoy the character for "key": 鑰. Probably, because I enjoy the usage of 金 for almost everything that's even somewhat metal! Makes the meaning of things easier to remember... at least so far.
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

Post by Lao Kou »

XXXVII wrote:無論誰吃了我的牛肉是死了!
So... maybe this is a huge longshot, but does this mean: "Whoever ate my beef is dead!"?

I have a feeling this is very not right, *shrug* worth a shot.
Pretty good shot! [tick] To be menacing, I'd say: 無論誰吃了我的牛肉,他就死了. [}:(]
And I think I just found my new favorite traditional character... and man, is it freaking bizarre: 龜.
And one reason you should never let anyone cow you with the "Oh Chinese is so difficult, foreigners can't read or write it." schtick. Ask any native to write that quickly, and most are just as flummoxed as the rest of us. "Let's see, how many strokes was that? Do I put one here?" It's tough to remember how to assemble (there are a couple like that -- it's not so much about number of strokes as assembly).
他青的玉龜在書桌上.
His green jade turtle is on the writing desk.
If you want to leave the 的 where you put it, I'd say: 他青的玉龜在書桌上.

Else, I'd go: 他的青玉龜在書桌上.
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

Post by Thrice Xandvii »

It seems you always reply to my posts pre-edit! [xD]

Again, just in general, 謝謝你! for all of your help! It seems like we might as well have been doing this via PM sometimes, since no one else seems to chime in. I just really appreciate the amount of time you spend parsing my ill-formed Mandarin and giving pointers. While I admit that I haven't absorbed everything you've said, I'd like to think I am making progress.

I am only about 205 characters into the giant list of 一千零二十. I shall have to post my current inventory sometime.
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

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XXXVII wrote:
Spoiler:
Image
Will have to wait until I'm at my office computer to view.
I've also discovered that I enjoy the character for "key": 鑰. Probably, because I enjoy the usage of 金 for almost everything that's even somewhat metal! Makes the meaning of things easier to remember... at least so far.
I'm partial to 鉢, "alms bowl", myself. [:)]
While I admit that I haven't absorbed everything
You must absorb all to become part of the collective. [}:D]
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

Post by DesEsseintes »

XXXVII wrote:It seems like we might as well have been doing this via PM sometimes, since no one else seems to chime in.
Well, I enjoy following this, even though I don't chime in. [:)]

Besides, perhaps I can catch Lao Kou in flagrante delicto one of these days... [}:D]
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

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DesEsseintes wrote:Besides, perhaps I can catch Lao Kou in flagrante delicto one of these days... [}:D]
Catch me if you can. [}:D]
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

Post by Thrice Xandvii »

甚麼?
Edit: As an aside, I just realized there was no reason to use 裡 in my writing sample. I think I threw it in for the sole purpose of writing it.

無論如何我天天玩吉他為您!
No matter what, I play the guitar for you everyday!

And yes, nín was intentional. LOL
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

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XXXVII wrote:無論如何我天天玩吉他為您!
No matter what, I play the guitar for you everyday!
無論如何,我天天為您吉他

"玩" is "play" for games and what children do, but non-children use it in the sense of "have a good time". For stinged instruments, not using a bow, you 彈 (tan2). The character can also be read "dan4", in which case it means "bomb" or "bullet".
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

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I assumed that wán was wrong there but didn't have an alternative in my repertoire yet.

Mainly, my goal was to use a lot of characters I liked visually in it. Which, conveniently, 彈 fits into nicely. Am I correct that that is the bow rad?
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

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XXXVII wrote:Am I correct that that is the bow rad?
Indeed. [tick]
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

Post by Thrice Xandvii »

Odd that its the one for instruments that aren't played with a bow then, isn't it?
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

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XXXVII wrote:Odd that its the one for instruments that aren't played with a bow then, isn't it?
But stringed instruments have taut strings between two points (and maybe a bridge). (The character as "tan2" as deals with coils/springs, and "flexibility".). A violin "bow" is just a "弓".
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

Post by Thrice Xandvii »

Does one alternate which verb is used for say... an acoustic bass/cello which can be played either way?
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Re: Meanderings of a 中文 Learner

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XXXVII wrote:Does one alternate which verb is used for say... an acoustic bass/cello which can be played either way?
When you use a bow, you 拉 (la1).
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