Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

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kanejam
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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by kanejam »

You don't owe us an explanation. I hope everything works out okay, and while I look forward to more lessons, I'm not impatient and I can wait [:)] all the best! Tgnámm bôta!

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by DesEsseintes »

kanejam wrote:You don't owe us an explanation. I hope everything works out okay, and while I look forward to more lessons, I'm not impatient and I can wait [:)] all the best! Tgnámm bôta!
[+1]

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by Alessio »

Hello, guys! It's been nearly a month after I last wrote a post here. My problems at home aren't solved yet, my exams aren't over - I've had 2 over 4 - but I really felt like writing here, and curiously had time for that, so I thought I might make a new short lesson just to show that I'm still alive!
Today, my topic are the demonstrative adjectives.

Lesson 15 - Demonstratives

OK, so! Let's begin. As you all know, a demonstrative adjective is used basically to state the position of an object so that the person we're talking to can understand which object we are talking about.
In Emilian, unlike in Italian, demonstrative adjectives differ from demonstrative pronouns, and a lot; hence, we're going to see them separately.

That
OK, so, why are we starting from "that" and not from "this"? We'll see in a minute.
Translating "that" in Emilian is pretty straight-forward: just put a /k/ sound before the proper article. This works for both singular and plural.
La scrâna (the chair) → Cla scrâna (that chair)
I gât (the cats) → Chi gât (those cats)
L'êsen (the donkey; also dumb person) → cl'êsen (that donkey)

Super easy, isn't it? Well, you might want to add a bit of precision with the distance markers and . Both mean there, and correspond to and in Italian; however, there is a subtle difference between them in both languages, and more in Emilian. generally refers to something near to the listener, whereas refers to something far from both the speaker and the listener. In both cases, put the marker after the noun:
Cla scrâna lè - That chair there (near to the listener)
Chi gât là - Those cats there (far from the listener)

These markers are used a lot, I'd say at least 80% of the times, so it's a good habit using them as much as possible.
Of course, you can use and in other situations as adverbs, together with chè meaning "here".

This
There are two ways of translating "this" into Emilian. The "regular" one is using the particle ste, which declines as follows:

Code: Select all

  M(C) F(C) M(V) F(V)
S ste  sta  st'  st'
P sti  stal sti  staj'
where M(C) stands for masculine nouns beginning in a consonant, M(V) for masculine nouns beginning in a vowel etc. Therefore:
Sta scrâna - This chair
Sti gât - These cats
St'êsen - This donkey
Staj'amîghi - These (female) friends

Note, however, that ste isn't used a lot. Emilians prefer using a periphrasis that works like this:
Cla scrâna chè - This chair (lit. that chair here)

This way is even simpler, and it's the one you'd here more if you were to come to Emilia-Romagna. Only people from Bologna tend to use ste a bit more; in the rest of the region you hear cal... chè way more often.

Demonstrative pronouns
As I said earlier, demonstrative pronouns differ from demonstrative adjectives in Emilian. There are basically two demonstrative pronouns, declined by gender and number.

This one:

Code: Select all

  M(C)  F(C)
S quast quàsta
P quist quìsti
That one:

Code: Select all

  M(C) F(C)
S qual quàlla
P quî  quîli
Often, these pronouns are followed by a space marker (quast etc. by chè and qual etc. by lè/là), just like the adjectives. When quast and quist are followed by chè, they are reduced to quas'chè and quis'chè, for ease of pronunciation.

Now, you should be interested in asking questions that can be answered with "this one" or "that one", no? Well, in Emilian there are two ways to say "which", one of which is an adjective and the other a pronoun. The adjective is che (/ke/, to be distinguished from chè which is pronounced /kε/), which has the same origin as Italian che; as I wrote in my Italian lessons, the original meaning of this word, now used for what, was something similar to which. In facts, in Emilian, this word has never got any other meaning.
Che lébber vǒ-t? - Which book do you want?
Qual lè. - That one near you.
Qual là. - That one down there.
Quas'chè. - This one.

The other word, the pronoun, is quêl, which also means "thing" (es. a gh'ò da fêr un quêl, I must do one thing). Simple conversation:
«Che lébber vǒ-t?» «Qual ed Dan Brown.» «Quêl?» «Qual lè!» (points to the book)
«Which book do you want?» «The one from Dan Brown.» «Which one?» (there are probably two or more) «That one near you!»


This is the end of lesson 15. Thanks to everybody reading this... I'll be back actively as soon as possible. For now, enjoy these sporadic lessons. Exercises! Complete, as always. Try to guess the genders of things, which you should be able to do.

1. _____ têvla ____ la-m piěs dimóndi. - I like that table a lot (near the listener).
2. «Ê-t vést al mě gât?» - «Ě-l ménga ____________?» - «Have you seen my cat?» «Isn't it the one down there?» (far from both)
3. ___________ l'è al mě arlǒj. L'è dla Breil. - This (one) is my watch. It's Breil.
4. Mâma, _____ bicěr ____ l'è spǒrc! L'ê-t lavê? - Mum, this glass (as in "a glass of water") is dirty! Did you wash it?
5. _____ zrěṡi _____ al van da mêl s'a-n al magnàmm brîṡa... - These cherries (will) rot if we don't eat them... (notice that rot is andêr da mêl, lit. "go to bad" as if "bad" were a person and you were going to their house)
6. «Par mè ____ quêder ____ al pîga...» «______?» «_________ ch'et gh'ê de drě!» - «To me, that picture is leaning...» (do you say it like this? I mean, it's been tilted or something like that) «Which one?» «The one behind you!» (lit. the one you've got behind!)
7. «____ mugněghi tóggh-ia?» «_________.» - «Which apricots shall I take?» «These ones.»



EDIT: I've recorded myself speaking Emilian and it came out pretty well, so this is the audio in case you want to listen: http://vocaroo.com/i/s0fw5W708swx
And this is the text:
Bounasîra a tótt, a-j-ò vlû registrêr cal discǒrs chè par fêrev seinter cum al souna l'emilian. A spěr ch'as capéssa incǒsa, a prǒv a ciacarêr abâsta pian.
A-v salût, mè a-m ciâm Alessio, a-j-âbit a San Vî, atěṡ a Môdna, in Itâlia. A gh'ò deṡnǒv (19) an da un měṡ e mêż ormâj, quindi a tâc a gnîr vêc'...! Pasadman a gh'ò la těrza prǒva dla maturitê, pò mercurdè a gh'ò j'urě, e dåpp a-j-ò finî sa Dìo vǒl! (A) m'arcmand, studiê dimóndi, parchè l'emilian l'è na léngua belésma, (e) l'an và ménga descurdêda!

(the translation is yours to guess...)

What I want you to notice in particular are the sounds of these letters: S, Ṡ, Z (actually there is none I notice now...), Ż. Also ignore my aspiration after the <c'> in <vêc'>, I was nearly laughing there, hence the breathing, but that shouldn't be aspirated. My <c'>s and <g'>s are very Italian-like, they should be less retracted in the mouth. Curiously, I pronounce Emilian <s>s and <z>s in Italian and Italian soft <c>s and <g>s in Emilian...
:ita: :eng: [:D] | :fra: :esp: :rus: [:)] | :con: Hecathver, Hajás, Hedetsūrk, Darezh...

Tin't inameint ca tót a sàm stê żōv'n e un po' cajoun, mo s't'armâgn cajoun an vōl ménga dîr t'armâgn anc żōven...

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by Alessio »

OK, since there is no answer I will up this thread a bit.
Here we go!

Lesson 16 - Question words

Well, I suppose everybody knows what question words are, so let's get down to business and let's list them.

Cǒṡa - What
The word for "what" is cǒṡa, but it's not that straightforward to use. Generally, cǒṡa is only used when it's stressed in the sentence (and therefore mostly when it's alone). Since it's also used when you didn't understand something, cases like this can happen.
«Và-m a tǒr al zóccher...» «Cǒṡa?» «A-j-ò détt: và-m a tǒr al zóccher.» - «Fetch me some sugar...» «What?» «I said: fetch me some sugar.»

However, most of the time, you will be using a shortened version of cǒṡa, 'sa (with <s> and not <ṡ> because /z̠/ can't begin a word).
'sa vǒ-t? - What do you want? (this sentence is used really a lot in Emilian, especially when answering to your name being called in informal situations. Also 'sa gh'è? [what's there?] is very common)

Chi - Who
I've been thinking for nearly an hour about this one. I wasn't sure if the <i> is long or short. The quality is for sure that of a long vowel, and so /i/, but the quantity is not enough to tell it's long... so I chose to write <chi>, and the pronunciation is /ki/ and that's it.
Anyways, this word is pretty simple to use. See these examples:
Chi ě-t? - Who are you?
Và a vàdder chi gh'è fǒra... - Go see who's outside...

Notice that chi can't be used as a relative pronoun; in this case you'd use ca. We'll see this soon.

Indǒva - Where
OK, we have bad and good news. The bad news is that this word has three forms. The good news is that it's not actually very difficult to choose which form you should be using. Just like cǒṡa, indǒva should be used only when it's alone:
«Tunein l'è andê a stêr vìa...» «Indǒva?» «A New York.» - «Anthony went living somewhere else/away...» «Where?» «In New York.»

The other two forms are indà and indù (quite funny now that I think of it... indù also means Hindustani in Emilian). Indà is used before a consonant, and indù before a vowel:
Indà vê-t? - Where are you going?
Indù ě-t? - Where are you?

Quand - When
Quite easy to use:

Quand ě-t nê? - When were you born?
A turnàmm quand ló al srà andê vìa. - We'll come back when (once) he's gone. (notice the different tenses in Emilian: present in the first clause, future in the second. Unlike when, quand can be followed by a future)

Parchè - Why/Because
This word is used both to mean why and to mean because.

Parchè ě-t trésta? - Why are you sad (feminine)?
Parchè al mě ambrǒṡ al m'à lasê... - Because my boyfriend left me...

Cǒme - How
Like cǒṡa and indǒva, cǒme is used only alone:
«A-g l'ò cavêda!» «Cǒme?» - «I did it!/I managed to do it!» «How?»

Most of the time, you'll be using the alternatiev form cum. Watch out, as cum means "with" in Latin, but not in Emilian. And OF COURSE it doesn't mean what it means in English, either. But you didn't even think of that, right?

Cum stê-t? - How are you? (lit. how do you stay? - just like in Italian)
A-n sò ménga cum a-j-ò fât... - I don't know how I did (that)...

Quant - How much
Last but not least, Emilian has a single word to translate how much, and it's quant. A common sentence with this word is:
Quant stê-t? - How much time do you still need? (lit. how much do you stay?)

Other examples:
Quant al càsta cal bagâj chè? - How much does this thing here cost?
Quant teimp! - Nice to see you again! (lit. how much time [has passed since the last time we met]!)



Good! Exercises for this long lesson will come soon. Stay tuned... I might be back.
:ita: :eng: [:D] | :fra: :esp: :rus: [:)] | :con: Hecathver, Hajás, Hedetsūrk, Darezh...

Tin't inameint ca tót a sàm stê żōv'n e un po' cajoun, mo s't'armâgn cajoun an vōl ménga dîr t'armâgn anc żōven...

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DesEsseintes
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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by DesEsseintes »

I'm super happy that you're carrying on with this! It's just that my brain is all over the shop at the moment, so I haven't done the exercises. Will be giving this proper attention soon! [:D]

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by eldin raigmore »

DesEsseintes wrote:I'm super happy that you're carrying on with this! It's just that my brain is all over the shop at the moment, so I haven't done the exercises. Will be giving this proper attention soon! [:D]
WHS [+1]

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by Mardigny »

I've never really thought about just how different regional Italian languages could be before. I'm glad you're working on this at whatever pace best suits you!

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by atman »

Alessio wrote:Bounasîra a tótt, a-j-ò vlû registrêr cal discǒrs chè par fêrev seinter cum al souna l'emilian. A spěr ch'as capéssa incǒsa, a prǒv a ciacarêr abâsta pian.
A-v salût, mè a-m ciâm Alessio, a-j-âbit a San Vî, atěṡ a Môdna, in Itâlia. A gh'ò deṡnǒv (19) an da un měṡ e mêż ormâj, quindi a tâc a gnîr vêc'...! Pasadman a gh'ò la těrza prǒva dla maturitê, pò mercurdè a gh'ò j'urě, e dåpp a-j-ò finî sa Dìo vǒl! (A) m'arcmand, studiê dimóndi, parchè l'emilian l'è na léngua belésma, (e) l'an và ménga descurdêda!

(the translation is yours to guess...)
I'll attempt a translation (into Italian):
Buonasera a tutti, ho (vedi Nap. agge) voluto registrare qualche frase per farvi sentire come suona l'emiliano. Affinché (< a sperare che) si capisca qualcosa, ho provato a parlare (< chiacchierare) abbastanza piano.
Io vi saluto, mi chiamo Alessio, io abito a San (Vito?), (vicino?) a Modena, in Italia. Io ho diciannove anni da un mese e mezzo ormai, quindi comincio (< attacco) a farmi (< divenire) vecchio! Dopodomani (< passato domani) ho la terza prova della maturità, poi mercoledì ho l'orale, e dopo (poi) ho finito se Dio vuole! E mi raccomando, studiate (), perché l'emiliano è una lingua bellissima, e non va mica dimenticata (< scordata)!
Mardigny wrote:I've never really thought about just how different regional Italian languages could be before. I'm glad you're working on this at whatever pace best suits you!
Indeed, how different they are! When days will last 48 hours each, I'll maybe make a thread and teach you Calabrese...
Երկնէր երկին, երկնէր երկիր, երկնէր և ծովն ծիրանի.

Alessio
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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by Alessio »

Congratulations for the translation, which you got mostly correct. Only some remarks.
"A spěr ca" means "I hope that" (spero che) rather than "to hope that" (a sperare che). "A" is an atone subject pronoun here.
The following verb is a present, so "a prǒv" means I try (provo) for the same motive as before: "a" is a pronoun.
"A-v salût" is the only translation of "Ciao" I could come up with, but yours isn't wrong at all. Only, I used it to mean that.
San Vito is correct, that's my village. Also you guessed "atěṡ" correctly - it does mean "near" (vicino). Well done! We also say "aṡvein" sometimes, but that's more local - you can hear "atěṡ" all over the region.
Gnîr is the verb "venire" (so to come), and I have never really thought that divenire is a compound verb of the preposition di + the verb venire, so I guess your translation explains why we use that verb to mean "become"... nice!
"Dimóndi" means "a lot". You might see "di mondi" separated, but I find that incorrect. "Mondi" doesn't mean "worlds" as it does in Italian - that is månd in Emilian. In facts, it has no meaning whatsoever in my regional language, so I guess writing it as one word is more correct. The same went for "atěṡ" - "těṡ" means nothing at all (although têṡ means "shut up"), so I write it as one word and not "a těṡ".
Finally, "a-j-ò" has really nothing to do with Neapolitan. The -j- in the middle is just euphonic and is not part of the verb. It's used with many others, such as "a-j-âbit" that you can see below. But you got the right meaning.
In general, you got it, but since this is a linguistics forum some linguistic considerations won't hurt, right?

Good, I'm going for something new. I'm working on a lesson about the imperfect tense but I think that it can wait. Today, I'd rather like to discuss a hot topic: as many as four words that look pretty similar, are (at least 3 of them) translated to the same word in Italian, but have completely different meanings.

Lesson 17 - Emilian likes C's and E's

Today, we are going to discuss the differences between four words:
CHE
CHÈ
EC
CA

Che
As we've seen, che is the atone word for which:
Che film ě-t tǒlt? - Which movie did you get (take)?

This word has no other meaning whatsoever, and can be elided to ch' (keep the H, otherwise the apostrophe would make the <c> soft) before vowels, although this is quite uncommon.

Chè
Chè means here. It's the only one of these words that doesn't translate to che in Italian (we say qui).
In some varieties - particularly getting nearer to Romagna, the eastern part of our region - you might also hear què /kwε/.
Mè a stâg chè! - I'm staying here! (you do what you want!)

Chè can be used with ste for emphasis, or with cal to change its meaning to this:
A vójj ste lébber chè. - I want this book here. (the meaning doesn't really change a lot without chè)
Cal computer chè l'è vêc' ormâj. - This computer is getting old. (ormâj = italian ormai means something between almost and at this point - notice that without chè this sentence would mean "that computer is getting old")

Ec
This is a new word. It's used to mean "what a", "such a":
Ec cûl! - What (a) luck! (lit. what an a*s! - quite vulgar but this is a common sentence you should learn whatsoever)

Ec is elided to ch' (quite curious - the first vowel is removed, not the last), just like che, before vowels, but unlike the first of our four words, it does this whenever possible.
Ch'êṡen... - What a stupid person... (lit. what a donkey - other common sentence)

Finally, ec is also elided the other way around - after a vowel, it becomes 'c. In my writing system, this rule overrides the previous one, so if there is a vowel both before and after ec you should follow this one. You'll see ec being used very often with mo (but, although here it doesn't have an actual meaning):
Mo'c lavǒr... - General sentence expressing a mixture of surprise and an involvement of personal feelings, be them good or bad; you could hear this to mean "I'm pleasantly surprised!" but also "I'm very sorry, I can't believe it". This is probably the most common sentence among all the ones we've seen so far. Literally, it means "what a job/work".

Ca
Ca is both a relative pronoun and a conjunction, meaning that, which or who according to the case. All these words translate to che in Italian, of course. Curiously, ca elides to a simple /k/ sound pretty much always, and you can find the whole word only before very difficult clusters such as /str/ or before names. I generally write this one as ch' too, although many prefer to include it within the following word, like this:
Al savîva cl'ěra un boun da gnint... - I knew (that) he was good for nothing...

I personally don't like this spelling because it creates confusion. I prefer using ch' or, at most, c-:
Al savîva ch'l'ěra/c-l'ěra un boun da gnint...
Although I tend to use more the first form, I'd advise you to use the second - at least before consonants - because it avoids confusion with ec and che (although the context should tell us which translation is correct anyways).

OK, in this sentence ca was used as a conjunction. Let's see it in action as a relative pronoun:
L'åmm ch'a-j-ò vést l'ěra ělt. - The man (whom) I saw was tall.

And this is pretty much everything. Now, exercises for both last lesson and this one.

LESSON 16
Complete this dialogue you could hear in a restaurant (supposing there are still restaurants where people speak Emilian - well who cares!).

C - camarěr (waiter), M - clieint mâsc' (male customer), F - clieint fàmna (female customer - his wife)

C: «Bounasîra. ______ sî-v?» Good evening. How many (are you)?
M: «A sàmm in dû.» We're two.
C: «Boun, andê in ____ têvel ___ (points to a far table)Good, go to that table down there.
M: «Grazie.» (there is no actual way to say thank you in Emilian, so we use Italian)
*the waiter comes back after a while*
C: «Sî-v prount par urdnêr?» Are you ready to order?
M: «Sè, grazie.» Yes, please.
C: «Boun, ____'v pôs-ia purtêr?» What can I bring you?
M: «Mè a vrévv dal tajadêli ai fonż.» I'd like tagliatelle with mushrooms.
F: «Mmh... ____ ein-i i turtloun "segrě"?» Mmh... how are "secret" tortelloni?
C: «Eh... l'è un segrě!» Eh... it's a secret!
F: «Va boun, pruvàmm!» OK, let's try!
C: «Parfêt. _____ sî-v?» Perfect. Who are you?
M: «... _______, ____àmm-ia fât?» ... why, what did we do?
C: «No, no, gninta! A-j-ò détt mêl, a vlîva dmandêr al vôster cugnåm...» No, no, nothing! ~I made a mistake, I wanted to ask for your surname...
M: «Ah, pardòn! Muntanêr.» Oh, sorry! Montanari.
C: «Parfêt.» (starts walking away) Perfect.
F: «Ah, camarěr!» Oh, waiter!
C: (stops) «___ gh'è?» Yes? (lit. what is there?)
F: «____ ě-l al bagn?» Where is the toilet?
C: «Żò par ______ schêli ____». Down these stairs here.
F: «Grazie!» Thank you!


LESSON 17
Complete these sentences with che, chè, ec or ca.

1. A-j-ò tgnusû Minârdi, quàl ___l'à fât la scuderìa! - I met Minardi, the one who founded (made) the racing team!
2. ____ bîro et tóggh-ia? - Which pen shall I get you?
3. A soun _____! M'seint-et? - I'm here! Can you hear me? (the M is syllabic, and it's often realized as [um] in such a position)
4. I m'an détt ____ Lureinz adêsa l'âbita in Aměrica. - They (somebody) told me (that) Lorenzo lives in America now.
5. Ê-t sintû cl'àutobus ___al s'è arbaltê ____ atěṡ? Mo'___ lavǒr... - Did you hear (the news about) that bus that got upside-down near here (for some reason, "near" and "here" are swapped in Emilian, but elsewhere "near" goes before the word it refers to)? "What a job"...
:ita: :eng: [:D] | :fra: :esp: :rus: [:)] | :con: Hecathver, Hajás, Hedetsūrk, Darezh...

Tin't inameint ca tót a sàm stê żōv'n e un po' cajoun, mo s't'armâgn cajoun an vōl ménga dîr t'armâgn anc żōven...

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by eldin raigmore »

Alessio wrote: "A" is an atone subject pronoun here.
What does "atone" mean here?

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by Mardigny »

Perhaps clitic/unstressed?

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by DesEsseintes »

eldin raigmore wrote:
Alessio wrote: "A" is an atone subject pronoun here.
What does "atone" mean here?
Funny. I wouldn't have noticed that if you hadn't pointed it out, but then I sometimes read about linguistics stuff in French and Italian, so atone and atono feel natural to me.

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by Alessio »

I suggest you look back at my lessons about subject pronouns if you don't know what an atone pronoun is in Emilian.
Anyways I'll answer shortly so that you can have an idea: in Emilian there are two forms for subject personal pronouns (and for object ones, but now we will focus on these): a tonic and an atone form. The tonic form is always stressed, and is used when you need to emphasize the subject. Compare with the Italian rule that tells you that you shouldn't use personal pronouns unless you want to stress them out. The atone form, instead, is mandatory 99% of the times, and it's never stressed. That's why I used the words "tonic" and "atone". However, like I said before, I really suggest you to check the lesson about subject pronouns.
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Tin't inameint ca tót a sàm stê żōv'n e un po' cajoun, mo s't'armâgn cajoun an vōl ménga dîr t'armâgn anc żōven...

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by kanejam »

Awesome to see you back Alessio! I just finished my exams (and I know how stressful shit gets) so I'll have a crack into these. Also the recording was very cool. You have pretty good English btw. I really like the sound of Emilian, it's just so cool!
Spoiler:
1. Cla têvla la-m piěs dimóndi. - I like that table a lot (near the listener).
2. «Ê-t vést al mě gât?» - «Ě-l ménga qual là?» - «Have you seen my cat?» «Isn't it the one down there?» (far from both)
3. Quas'chè l'è al mě arlǒj. L'è dla Breil. - This (one) is my watch. It's Breil.
4. Mâma, cal bicěr chè l'è spǒrc! L'ê-t lavê? - Mum, this glass (as in "a glass of water") is dirty! Did you wash it? (hehe, the word for dirty is spork :P)
5. Cal zrěṡi chè al van da mêl s'a-n al magnàmm brîṡa... - These cherries (will) rot if we don't eat them... (notice that rot is andêr da mêl, lit. "go to bad" as if "bad" were a person and you were going to their house) (same as English 'go bad')
6. «Par mè cal quêder al pîga...» «Quêl?» «Qual ch'et gh'ê de drě!» - «To me, that picture is leaning...» (do you say it like this? I mean, it's been tilted or something like that) (good question, I can't think how to say it properly but I'd probably say 'it's wonky'. Maybe tilted works too? Maybe 'on a tilt' or 'on a lean') «Which one?» «The one behind you!» (lit. the one you've got behind!)
7. «Che mugněghi tóggh-ia?» «Quisti chè.» - «Which apricots shall I take?» «These ones.»
It's almost as if sa, cum, indà etc are the questions words and cǒṡa etc are tonic forms, as they occur so rarely.
Spoiler:
C: «Bounasîra. Quant sî-v?» Good evening. How many (are you)?
M: «A sàmm in dû.» We're two.
C: «Boun, andê in cal têvel (points to a far table).» Good, go to that table down there.
M: «Grazie.» (there is no actual way to say thank you in Emilian, so we use Italian)
*the waiter comes back after a while*
C: «Sî-v prount par urdnêr?» Are you ready to order?
M: «Sè, grazie.» Yes, please.
C: «Boun, sa'v pôs-ia purtêr?» What can I bring you?
M: «Mè a vrévv dal tajadêli ai fonż.» I'd like tagliatelle with mushrooms.
F: «Mmh... Cum ein-i i turtloun "segrě"?» Mmh... how are "secret" tortelloni?
C: «Eh... l'è un segrě!» Eh... it's a secret!
F: «Va boun, pruvàmm!» OK, let's try!
C: «Parfêt. Chi sî-v?» Perfect. Who are you?
M: «... Parchè, s'àmm-ia fât?» ... why, what did we do?
C: «No, no, gninta! A-j-ò détt mêl, a vlîva dmandêr al vôster cugnåm...» No, no, nothing! ~I made a mistake, I wanted to ask for your surname...
M: «Ah, pardòn! Muntanêr.» Oh, sorry! Montanari.
C: «Parfêt.» (starts walking away) Perfect.
F: «Ah, camarěr!» Oh, waiter!
C: (stops) «Sa gh'è?» Yes? (lit. what is there?)
F: «Indù ě-l al bagn?» Where is the toilet?
C: «Żò par cal schêli chè». Down these stairs here.
F: «Grazie!» Thank you!
Spoiler:
1. A-j-ò tgnusû Minârdi, quàl c-l'à fât la scuderìa! - I met Minardi, the one who founded (made) the racing team!
2. Che bîro et tóggh-ia? - Which pen shall I get you?
3. A soun chè! M'seint-et? - I'm here! Can you hear me? (the M is syllabic, and it's often realized as [um] in such a position)
4. I m'an détt ca Lureinz adêsa l'âbita in Aměrica. - They (somebody) told me (that) Lorenzo lives in America now.
5. Ê-t sintû cl'àutobus c-al s'è arbaltê chè atěṡ? Mo'c lavǒr... - Did you hear (the news about) that bus that got upside-down near here (for some reason, "near" and "here" are swapped in Emilian, but elsewhere "near" goes before the word it refers to)? "What a job"...
Last edited by kanejam on 01 Jul 2014 02:39, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by Alessio »

Congratulations for your excellent work on these topics. Now, the corrections.

FIRST SPOILER
Sentence 5. should use "cal", because the proper article for f.p. word "zrěṡi" is "al".
In sentence 7. you should have used "quisti... chè" because you can't replace "quisti" with "quîli", although you can replace "ste" with "cal".

SECOND SPOILER
Seeing "têvla" before has probably confused you in sentence 3. "Têvel" and "têvla", just like Italian "tavolo" and "tavola", mean the same thing (table) but are used in slightly different contexts (in a restaurant, you always use "tavolo/têvel") and have different genders. Therefore, as "têvel" is masculine (whereas "têvla" is feminine), you should say "cal têvel là".
Down a bit, you used "perchè" probably just inverting the accent from Italian "perché". The proper Emilian word is parchè, with an <a>.
The rest is correct.

THIRD SPOILER
Sentence 4 is not really wrong, but as I said it is preferrable to use "ca" before proper names to avoid modifying them. It's difficult to create confusion with the name of a person - the name /klʊ'ræi̯ns̪ / doesn't exist - but it might happen with cities. Thus, I'd say "ca Lureinz".
Since this isn't really a mistake, you can consider your 3rd exercise 100% correct.

Time for our new lesson - finally, the imperfect.

Lesson 18 - The imperfect past tense

A new tense for you! So, as we've seen back in a while, there are two past tenses in Emilian: the simple past - or recent past - and the imperfect past.
Just like the name suggests, this tense is a conflation of a past tense and an imperfective aspect; it's used (more or less) the same way as it is in Italian, so let's see how it works and how you can form it.

First, we need the proper root. For -êr and -îr verbs, replace the -r with a -v:
Magnêr (eat) → magnêv-
Durmîr (sleep) → durmîv-

For irregular verbs in -ěr, the imperfect past is generally regular and can be formed in -îv- + suffixes:
Psěr (can/be able to) → psîv-
Savěr (know, know how) → savîv-

Verbs in -er inflect in -îv-, but they also show ablaut, as it often happens when the stress moves:
Cǒṡer (cook) → cuṡîv-
Màtter (put) → mitîv-
Notice how this root is, in most cases, identical to the present 2pl person (including the optional -v).

The verb "fêr" (do/make) has two possible roots: the regular fêv- and an irregular faṡîv-. I've heard the same person use both, thus I suppose they are interchangeable. I have to say, though, that I've never heard anybody using the faṡîv- root in questions. Is this a coincidence? I honestly don't know. Using fêv- all the time is right, just be sure to recognize the other form when you see it.

Finally, once you have the root, apply these suffixes:
1sg: -a or nothing (generally the -a is appended only if the word is stressed in the sentence)
2sg: nothing
3sg: -a (but this ending is suppressed in the question form, so we have magnêv-el? and magnêv-la?)
1pl: -em
2pl: -i or nothing (same as 1sg); sometimes, verbs that do not end in -êr are inflected in -îdi instead (es. psěr → psîdi instead of psîv(i) ), but this is rare and not mandatory
3pl: -en

I would like you to notice how the Italian 1sg imperfect suffix is -o (avevo, mangiavo etc.) whereas in Emilian, when used, it's -a, just like in Spanish.

Ěser has an irregular root <ěr>, but once you know this it is conjugated regularly: mè a-j-ěra, tè t'ěr etc.

Now, how do we use the imperfect past? Well, mostly for imperfect actions, that is, actions that were not (yet) complete in the moment we're talking about. However, it doesn't correspond to the past continuous - that is formed with a periphrasis, just like in French - and it's therefore used mainly with the word meinter, meaning "while", whereas in the other clause, the one telling us what happened while we were doing something, we should use the simple/recent past:
Meinter ch'a magnêv, l'è sunê al telěfon. - While I was eating, the telephone rang.

Notice that I've used the past continuous in English for this sentence, but again, that's not the tense you should use after meinter: an imperfect past is the only one you can put there. However, curiously, you should use the imperfect past in combination with the past continuous, but this will be the topic of a later lesson.

Another usage of the imperfect is to express actions that were habitual in the past.
Teimp fa a magnêv dimóndi påmm. - (Some) time ago I used to eat many apples.
Quand a-j-ěra un putein, a-j-andêv spàss al pârc. - When I was a child, I often went to the park.

And this is it. Easy, eh? The imperfect isn't used a lot in Emilian - the past continuous is way more common, thus I will teach it soon. Exercises! Complete Giuvâni's account about what the world used to be like when he was a kid. One very important note: we haven't seen the pronoun "as" yet, but it's a mediopassive just like Italian si, Spanish se, French on, German man etc., and therefore you should use a 3rd person singular verb after it.

«Teimp fà, quand a-j-_______ (andêr) incàrra a scǒla, la vétta l'____ (ěser) dimóndi divěrsa. Prémma ed tótt, a gh'____ (ěser) incàrra la lîra. A-m arcôrd* c-al caramêli al ______ (custêr) ón franc** l'ónna. As-e-_____ (psěr) (the -e- is euphonic - curiously, I have no problems pronouncing /sps/, but the Emilian language adds an -e- there anyways) andêr a lavurêr a quatôrg'ân (___-el pò un bêl fât?) e as-e-_____ (stêr) lè tótt al dåpp-meżdè*** par purtêr a cà quêl. Nuêter ragazǒl a _________ (żughêr) sǒl la sîra, seimper al baloun: i nôster genitǒr i ________ (fêr) dimóndi fadîga par cumprêr-el.»

Translation.
«(Some) time ago, when I still went to school, life was very different. First of all, there was still the lira (Italian pre-Euro currency). I remember that candies cost 1£ each. We could go to work from (eml. at) the age of 14 and we stayed there the whole afternoon to gain some money (eml. to bring something home). We kids used to play only in the evening, (and it was) always football (eml. ball): our parents had to work hard (eml. made much fatigue) to buy it (the ball).»

Notes:
* The Italian movie director Federico Fellini was born in Rimini, Emilia-Romagna, and was therefore a native speaker of Emilian. That's why one of his movies is called Amarcord or, as I write it, A m'arcôrd - I remember.
** I think I've already said this, but it's worth telling again. Emiliand and French are so intimately connected that we called our currency, the lira, "franc" just like the French currency. This, however, happened only with figures: you can see "lîra" being used just a little earlier.
*** Compare with French "après-midi", of which it's a literal translation. There is also another word for "afternoon", which is bas'ǒra from bâsa ǒra - low/little time. But if it's later, why little? Because although in Emilian (and Italian) one generally writes time in 24h format, when speaking we always, always, always use the 12h format, and thus afternoon hours are "smaller" than morning hours.
:ita: :eng: [:D] | :fra: :esp: :rus: [:)] | :con: Hecathver, Hajás, Hedetsūrk, Darezh...

Tin't inameint ca tót a sàm stê żōv'n e un po' cajoun, mo s't'armâgn cajoun an vōl ménga dîr t'armâgn anc żōven...

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by kanejam »

Spoiler:
«Teimp fà, quand a-j-andêv incàrra a scǒla, la vétta l'ěra dimóndi divěrsa. Prémma ed tótt, a gh'ěr incàrra la lîra. A-m arcôrd* c-al caramêli al custêva ón franc** l'ónna. As-e-psîva andêr a lavurêr a quatôrg'ân (?ěr-el pò un bêl fât?) e as-e-stêva lè tótt al dåpp-meżdè*** par purtêr a cà quêl. Nuêter ragazǒl a żughêv sǒl la sîra, seimper al baloun: i nôster genitǒr i fêven dimóndi fadîga par cumprêr-el.»
Just by the way, the imperfect is usually described as the past progressive, past habitual or past continuous and so in your example sentence 'Meinter ch'a magnêv, l'è sunê al telěfon' it's entirely correct to translate 'a magnêv' as 'I was eating'. The periphrastic one that you're calling the past continuous should be the simple past (in terms of West European grammar this is something like a perfect or perfective I think) and would correspond to 'I ate' and sometimes to 'I have eaten'.

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by Alessio »

What I call the past continuous isn't perfective at all - in facts, it's all the contrary. Maybe my sentence "the imperfect is used in combination with the past continuous" has confused you (that should have been more like it's used to form the past continuous), but you will soon see what I mean. That will, in fact, be the topic of our next lesson, as soon as I'm able to post it (maybe you thought I was calling that the simple past we've already talked about?). Also, I've borrowed the terms from the Italian grammar, where there is a difference between the imperfect tense (io mangiavo) and the past continuous tense (io stavo mangiando). Since this difference is not present in English, I thought it would have been good to underline how there are two tenses translating to the same one in English.

Anyways, in your sentences the only mistake is "żughêv": it should be 1pl "żughêvem".
Good, so, the new lesson will come somewhere between this evening (Italian evening - here it's 2:42pm now) and Saturday. Stay tuned!
:ita: :eng: [:D] | :fra: :esp: :rus: [:)] | :con: Hecathver, Hajás, Hedetsūrk, Darezh...

Tin't inameint ca tót a sàm stê żōv'n e un po' cajoun, mo s't'armâgn cajoun an vōl ménga dîr t'armâgn anc żōven...

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by kanejam »

Sorry I think I was assuming that the tenses are the same as French, as the example sentence seems to fit that idea.

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by Alessio »

The fact is that I gave no example sentence with an actual Emilian past continuous [xP] that's why I think you're confused.
Anyways, our new lesson is ready to be taught!

Lesson 19 - Continuous tenses

Well, so we've been talking so long about this past continuous. But how do we actually form it, and how shall we use it?
Well, we have to use a periphrasis, that will work for both the present and the past and is formed like this:

A soun a drě ch'a ciacâr. - I am talking/speaking.

Do you notice anything? We are basically conjugating ěser a drě ca, which has an incredible resemblance with French être en train de. The two have the same usage, but they work differently.
First of all, the verb has to be conjugated: we are using a ciacâr and not just ciacarêr. Second, because of this, we are not using the preposition "of" - which would be ed, but rather the conjunction ca.

In Emilian we have basically two continuous tenses: the present and the past. While it's not really wrong to use future continuous verbs, it's for sure rare to hear one. So, let's get down to precise rules.

1) To form the present continuous, conjugate ěser a drě ca followed by the present of the verb, atone pronoun included.
A soun a drě ch'a båvv. - I'm drinking.

2) To form the past continuous, apply the same rule, but use the imperfect past instead (for both verbs).
A-j-ěr a drě ch'a b(i)vîv. - I was drinking. (the I is sometimes added in some dialects, so you can use it to help yourself pronounce the verb if you find it difficult)

3) A little exception: in negative and question forms, replace "ca" with "a" and put the main verb in the infinitive.
A-n n'ěr ménga a drě a magnêr. - I was not eating.
's'ě-t a drě a fêr? - What are you doing?

That's all. So, how do we use continuous tenses?
The answer is pretty straightforward: apart from the cases where you should use the imperfect past, whenever you use them in English.
I'm looking at some photos. → A soun a drě ch'a guêrd dal fôto.

However, there are some exceptions. Some verbs that usually express continuous actions don't need a continuous tense. Notice that in Italian, though, you do need a continuous tense anyways.
Are you listening (at me)? → M'ascǒlt-et? (simple present!) → Mi stai ascoltando? (Italian, present continuous)

This is all for today. I don't have time to post the exercises because I'm going out to celebrate my secondary school diploma, which I got with 100/100 + "lode" (I think that would be like... laud in English? Basically it's formal congratulations from the school). I'm now an accountant, businessman and computer programmer (Ragioniere, Perito Commerciale e Programmatore). Keep studying - I've done my part!
:ita: :eng: [:D] | :fra: :esp: :rus: [:)] | :con: Hecathver, Hajás, Hedetsūrk, Darezh...

Tin't inameint ca tót a sàm stê żōv'n e un po' cajoun, mo s't'armâgn cajoun an vōl ménga dîr t'armâgn anc żōven...

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Re: Tgnàmm Bôta - Emilian lessons and resources

Post by Alessio »

Bounasîra a tótt!

I've come back after a long time in which I had no time and also, let me say, I didn't feel like writing new lessons. It happens!
Anyways, I have a new lesson for you, and I also elaborated my writing system a bit more.
Let us start from there, but with a premise: as always, this is my system. Constantly changing writing system might be a pain in the a**, therefore you are free to keep whatever you want, also because none is official.
So, these are the rules I added.

First, no more doubles at the end of a word. So the greeting I wrote before would become bounasîra a tót, rather than tótt.
Second, monosyllable verbs and adverbs must always carry an accent, other monosyllable words mustn't. Therefore, you writefà - dà - stà - là (he does, he gives, he stays, there) but mo (but), for example.
Last but not least, time to get rid of all those hyphens. So, if you see one hyphen, just remove it; if you see two, put a space in place of the first and put the other two words together. Therefore you'll see an where you used to see a-n and a jò where you used to see a-j-ò.

What is the motive of these changes? Because that's how people write Emilian wherever I can see it written.


OK, let's go!

Lesson 20 - Adverbs of time with verbs

I don't really know how to call these adverbs, but still, here they are!

Bêle/bêli - Already
Possibly evolved from Italian bell'e (lit. beautiful and), an idiomatic expression with approximately the same meaning, this adverb means "already". Put it before the verb - or before the past participle for compound tenses - and you're done:
Mè a t'ò bêle vést... - I've already seen you/I've seen you before...

Incàrra - Still, again (rarely)
This word has two meanings: the most common is "still".
A soun incàrra a drě ch'a båv. - I'm still drinking.

The second one is again, but we prefer n'êtra vǒlta (lt. one more time) in this case. However, there is a case in which you always have to use it... this one.
«Bâbo, a jò bucê la mâchina...» «INCÀRRA?!» - «Dad, I crashed the car...» «AGAIN?!»
... so practically when you want to say «oh no, that can't possibly be that it happened again!», of course using only one word.

NOTE: I've often seen this written as "incàra", with only one R, because the Emilian R is kind of shorter than the Italian R (it's almost always reduced to a single vibration, although not becoming an actual tap), and writing two seems excessive to an Italian eye, even when you know the rule that two consonants count as one. You'll see me using both forms, probably.

Gnancàrra, gnanc incàrra - Not yet
You'll often hear northern Italians - like me - saying the non-existent word neancora. This is the translation of a word existing in most Gallo-Italic "dialects", and precisely gnancàrra, contraction of gnanc (not even) and incàrra (which you already know). Just like in Italian, when negated, incàrra gets the meaning of not yet; however, in Emilian it is way more common to use gnanc rather than the common negative form in this case, and the two words may or may not merge, depending on how you feel. Even when you write this as two words, they can't be separated and they go in the same position where bêle would go, without adding ménga/brîṡa. Thus:
An n'ò gnancàrra magnê, però a jò bêle bvû! - I haven't eaten yet, but I've already drunk!

An... pió - No more
The usage of this one is quite simple. Add pió after the verb in a negative sentence and you're done. Just like plus in French, pió doesn't need ménga/brîṡa after it.
An guîd pió. I m'an tǒlt la pateint. - I don't drive anymore. They revoked (lt. they took) my driving licence.


Good, this is all for today. Exercises still to come... but I will prepare them sooner or later. Bye for now!
:ita: :eng: [:D] | :fra: :esp: :rus: [:)] | :con: Hecathver, Hajás, Hedetsūrk, Darezh...

Tin't inameint ca tót a sàm stê żōv'n e un po' cajoun, mo s't'armâgn cajoun an vōl ménga dîr t'armâgn anc żōven...

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