The Sixth Conversation Thread
- Creyeditor
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
I had similar experiences with more boring explanations. Turns out the old tune that I re-remembered and that showed up on YT simply got a mash-up/cover version/whatever and is on every radio channel now. I must have heard it somewhere though, because I do not usually listen to the radio.
Creyeditor
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"Thoughts are free."
Produce, Analyze, Manipulate
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Ook & Omlűt & Nautli languages & Sperenjas
Papuan languages, Morphophonology, Lexical Semantics
Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
I had that happen a lot as well. I'm not sure how it is elsewhere, but German radio and television have been playing a lot of covers - in particular, I've noticed a lot of Beatle covers popping up lately. There's also a long-standing "tradition" of translating anglophone songs into German and have them recorded by a German band, or in some cases just straight up stealing a melody and making a whole new song out of it; which can lead to a lot of "wait, I've heard this before..."
That said, there's plenty of that going on everywhere, intentionally or not. For example, I noticed that Bill Fay's "The Coast No Man Can Tell" sounds suspiciously similar to the opening of the second movement of Beethoven's 8th piano sonata ("Piano Sonata No. 8, Op. 13 "Pathétique" II. Adagio cantabile", for anyone who wants an easy search).
That said, there's plenty of that going on everywhere, intentionally or not. For example, I noticed that Bill Fay's "The Coast No Man Can Tell" sounds suspiciously similar to the opening of the second movement of Beethoven's 8th piano sonata ("Piano Sonata No. 8, Op. 13 "Pathétique" II. Adagio cantabile", for anyone who wants an easy search).
Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
If it makes you feel any better, the opening theme of the adagio from Beethoven's piano sonata number eight in C minor (opus 13) is a blatent rip-off of Mozart's 14th. Right down to the key... [Piano Sonata No. 14 in C minor, K. 457]
[Pathetique; second section of the 457 adagio. (you might think at first that this is just a coincidence, because the two tunes diverge only a few bars in. But there's actually a bunch of little moments later in that movement that also show up almost verbatim in the Beethoven - not so many that it's just a pure imitation, of course, but enough that it's obvious that Beethoven was copying directly from Mozart for the foundation of his new piece]
And you're very right that there's a looong-standing tradition of translating anglophone songs into German and having them performed by a German band: here's Mozart's/Klopstock's Ich weiss, dass mein Erlöser lebet and Uns ist zum Heil ein Kind geboren!
All of this - translations (which were almost universal in opera until a few decades ago), theft/reference and overt homage - is a lot more common in classical music culture, mostly because it was mostly written before copyright was invented (composers could earn a little through publishing scores, and from initial performances, and from commissions, but there was no lifechangingly-huge income stream from ongoing performance royalties to fight over; many composers actually made a living as performers or teachers). And also because over hundreds of years people realised that there were only so many notes to go around - there was less desperation to claim that your music was yours and yours alone and totally unique than there is in pop music. [hence why 99.999% of classical musicians are in 'cover bands' by pop standards; of course, so are most pop musicians, they just hush up the name of their songwriter and hope people will assume they wrote it]
My personal bugbear in this regard: there's about two bars of Elgar's cello concerto that are verbatim the same as about two bars of the unfinished; this might genuinely be coincidence, as they're very uneventful bars, I don't know, but it bugs me every time I hear it!
----
Back onto topic, though: I doubt that's what happened in this case. Offenbach doesn't get covered in a lot of pop music these days! [I suppose it's possible it was in an advert?]
[Pathetique; second section of the 457 adagio. (you might think at first that this is just a coincidence, because the two tunes diverge only a few bars in. But there's actually a bunch of little moments later in that movement that also show up almost verbatim in the Beethoven - not so many that it's just a pure imitation, of course, but enough that it's obvious that Beethoven was copying directly from Mozart for the foundation of his new piece]
And you're very right that there's a looong-standing tradition of translating anglophone songs into German and having them performed by a German band: here's Mozart's/Klopstock's Ich weiss, dass mein Erlöser lebet and Uns ist zum Heil ein Kind geboren!
All of this - translations (which were almost universal in opera until a few decades ago), theft/reference and overt homage - is a lot more common in classical music culture, mostly because it was mostly written before copyright was invented (composers could earn a little through publishing scores, and from initial performances, and from commissions, but there was no lifechangingly-huge income stream from ongoing performance royalties to fight over; many composers actually made a living as performers or teachers). And also because over hundreds of years people realised that there were only so many notes to go around - there was less desperation to claim that your music was yours and yours alone and totally unique than there is in pop music. [hence why 99.999% of classical musicians are in 'cover bands' by pop standards; of course, so are most pop musicians, they just hush up the name of their songwriter and hope people will assume they wrote it]
My personal bugbear in this regard: there's about two bars of Elgar's cello concerto that are verbatim the same as about two bars of the unfinished; this might genuinely be coincidence, as they're very uneventful bars, I don't know, but it bugs me every time I hear it!
----
Back onto topic, though: I doubt that's what happened in this case. Offenbach doesn't get covered in a lot of pop music these days! [I suppose it's possible it was in an advert?]
Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
I'm not sure if I feel any better about it, since my main annoyance was that I like Bill Fay, and this one song in particular. The fact that the piano part is mostly "borrowed" diminishes it, in my eyes.
As for all the borrowing across the ages, and within classical music; as well as all the theoretical, economical and other such ramifications - yea, that's something to write books about (and there are, no doubt), so let's not start. Thank you for the write-up though, it's very interesting, especially coming from someone who seems to listen quite actively to a lot of classical music.
As for borrowing/covering Offenbach: hard to know, but if it was in an advert, I actually would be more surprised if it wasn't an intentional borrowing. It's a sector that seems even more prone to "quoting" musical bits, just in the hope of hooking people indirectly. Idem for pop music.
As for all the borrowing across the ages, and within classical music; as well as all the theoretical, economical and other such ramifications - yea, that's something to write books about (and there are, no doubt), so let's not start. Thank you for the write-up though, it's very interesting, especially coming from someone who seems to listen quite actively to a lot of classical music.
As for borrowing/covering Offenbach: hard to know, but if it was in an advert, I actually would be more surprised if it wasn't an intentional borrowing. It's a sector that seems even more prone to "quoting" musical bits, just in the hope of hooking people indirectly. Idem for pop music.
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- mongolian
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
The end of the Civil War was here, when quite accidentally . . .
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tripid ... 15f21c0200
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tripid ... 15f21c0200
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
- eldin raigmore
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
Barbara Feldon was Agent 99. Her character was never given any name other than 99.Khemehekis wrote: ↑11 Jul 2022 17:06 The end of the Civil War was here, when quite accidentally . . .
https://www.msn.com/en-us/travel/tripid ... 15f21c0200
Don Adams was Maxwell Smart, Agent 86.
And Don Adams was Canadian, if i recall correctly, regardless of what Wikipedia says.
The agency they worked for was CONTROL. They were opposed by KAOS.
The Cone of Silence was a gadget CONTROL had.
My minicity is http://gonabebig1day.myminicity.com/xml
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- mongolian
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
And now Viserion is gone too. Three empty tanks now, after His Holiness two years ago and Kami back in March as well. I think Viserion might have had an abscess in his beard, but I was due to take him to the vet today, but by the time I got home he was already gone. It looked like he hadn't moved since he settled in to sleep last night, so I imagine that whatever happened happened in his sleep
He was growing up to be just as grumpy as His Holiness, whose tank he eventually took over, and I was really looking forward to seeing more of that
He was growing up to be just as grumpy as His Holiness, whose tank he eventually took over, and I was really looking forward to seeing more of that
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
Ohhhhh my god! Would The Orville stop making me cry basically every other episode Like not even sad cry, just... emotional crying, lol
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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- mongolian
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
^Those crickets are jumping up to be eaten by Viserion.
I'm sorry for your loss, though. You probably feel the way I felt when Houdini the hamster expired on my fifteenth birthday.
I'm sorry for your loss, though. You probably feel the way I felt when Houdini the hamster expired on my fifteenth birthday.
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
-
- mongolian
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
Some exciting news from across the Net. My friend with the corpus announced that it has reached 275 million words of text. Ritchie says his corpus is eleven-twelfths complete now, but he's been saying the corpus is more than 90% finished for a couple of years now. IIRC, the original plan was to stop when the corpus reached 100 million or 150 million words. He's emailed me the 20,000 most common words with their frequencies, and is also distributing a list of the 10,000 most common words in alphabetical order. I'm breaking it into two posts here since, well, it's 10,000 words long.
Spoiler:
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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- mongolian
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- Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
The list, continued:
Spoiler:
Last edited by Khemehekis on 21 Dec 2022 14:58, edited 1 time in total.
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
The unofficial ##cbb Freenode IRC channel lapsed some time ago. I don't know how to feel about this. It's definitely an end of an era. I redownloaded IRC, and registered ##cbb on Libera.chat (ircs://irc.libera.chat:6697), but I don't think anyone will ever actively use IRC again.
Spoiler:
Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
New Prime Minister time here in the UK. Let's see how this goes [cue internal screaming]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
DEAR GOD, THE QUEEN IS DEAD!
LONDON BRIDGE IS DOWN!
CHARLES IS KING!
LONDON BRIDGE IS DOWN!
CHARLES IS KING!
Languages of Rodentèrra: Buonavallese, Saselvan Argemontese; Wīlandisċ Taulkeisch; More on the road.
Conlang embryo of TELES: Proto-Avesto-Umbric ~> Proto-Umbric
New blog: http://argentiusbonavalensis.tumblr.com
Conlang embryo of TELES: Proto-Avesto-Umbric ~> Proto-Umbric
New blog: http://argentiusbonavalensis.tumblr.com
- Man in Space
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
Twin Aster megathread
AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO
CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝare n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PB = Proto-Beheic
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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- mongolian
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
On my birthday, no less. The world is going to miss Elizabeth. The late queen inspured my parents to name my sister Elizabeth.
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
-
- mongolian
- Posts: 3885
- Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
- Location: California über alles
Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
-
- mongolian
- Posts: 3885
- Joined: 14 Aug 2010 09:36
- Location: California über alles
Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
Ossicone!
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ossicone
They finally added your screenname to Merriam-Webster!
(I remember requesting an entry for "ossicone" there years ago.)
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ossicone
They finally added your screenname to Merriam-Webster!
(I remember requesting an entry for "ossicone" there years ago.)
♂♥♂♀
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels
My Kankonian-English dictionary: 87,413 words and counting
31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
- eldin raigmore
- korean
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread
I am reminded of the thread containing this post.Khemehekis wrote: ↑07 Oct 2022 22:02 Ossicone!
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/ossicone
They finally added your screenname to Merriam-Webster!
(I remember requesting an entry for "ossicone" there years ago.)
My minicity is http://gonabebig1day.myminicity.com/xml