The Sixth Conversation Thread

What can I say? It doesn't fit above, put it here. Also the location of board rules/info.
Khemehekis
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Khemehekis »

Lambuzhao wrote: 29 Jun 2021 00:09 Izar, zha Khemehekis!
Ar os kuless!
I would say I was away down South, or even in E-Space/The Gamma Quadrant, but it was more like I was trapped in some kind of combo of an Input/Output Guardian's plinth + the creepy cyberpunk container from The Matrix.
An Input/Output Guardian? Is that something from Doctor Who? Sure sounds like it.
Yet thankfully, I avoided the Crowning Virus at all turns, and vaxxed statissime.
In Kankonian, coronavirus is called khidudopom. Dopom is Kankonian for virus, whereas khidu is the word for one of those crowns that milk makes as it spills and hits the floor. Khidu in turn comes from the Ciladian word for crown, as in a monarch's crown.

I got my two shots quite early this year.
Glad to be free. I may not be here as often as I'd like. But I am glad to be free of that Year that Would Not End.
It was harder for extroverts like me than for introverts, that's for sure. But at least I didn't have to get up early every day to sit in a cramped van and listen to other people's radio stations.
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Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 78,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Lambuzhao
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Lambuzhao »

All4Ɇn wrote: 29 Jun 2021 15:53
Lambuzhao wrote: 29 Jun 2021 01:24 Yes, indeed. [:)]
Welcome back!

Beðakk so mikeld!!

:mrgreen:
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Lambuzhao »

Khemehekis wrote: 30 Jun 2021 15:24
Lambuzhao wrote: 29 Jun 2021 00:09 Izar, zha Khemehekis!
Ar os kuless!
[:D] [:D]
Khemehekis wrote: 30 Jun 2021 15:24
Lambuzhao wrote: 29 Jun 2021 00:09 I would say I was away down South, or even in E-Space/The Gamma Quadrant, but it was more like I was trapped in some kind of combo of an Input/Output Guardian's plinth + the creepy cyberpunk container from The Matrix.
An Input/Output Guardian? Is that something from Doctor Who? Sure sounds like it.
From TRON. Both Dumont and the (previous incarnation of the) MCP were both I/O Guardians.
Khemehekis wrote: 30 Jun 2021 15:24
Lambuzhao wrote: 29 Jun 2021 00:09 Yet thankfully, I avoided the Crowning Virus at all turns, and vaxxed statissime.
In Kankonian, coronavirus is called khidudopom. Dopom is Kankonian for virus, whereas khidu is the word for one of those crowns that milk makes as it spills and hits the floor. Khidu in turn comes from the Ciladian word for crown, as in a monarch's crown.

I got my two shots quite early this year.
Indeed, behoovesomely so!

Khemehekis wrote: 30 Jun 2021 15:24
Lambuzhao wrote: 29 Jun 2021 00:09 Glad to be free. I may not be here as often as I'd like. But I am glad to be free of that Year that Would Not End.
It was harder for extroverts like me than for introverts, that's for sure. But at least I didn't have to get up early every day to sit in a cramped van and listen to other people's radio stations.
How true! My son is more of an introvert, and he loved not having to trapse back and forth to University: all online courses for him! He got a 4.0 GPA (out of 4), so I cannot complain.

Extrovert or not, there was a lot of whip-cracking for us teachers of secondary-schools to make sure everything was up to date and connected online and google-meet open, and accepting of late assignments, while the we were lucky to get participation from any of them, no matter how\what we tried. Never had I felt so much like I was floating in a tin-can, far above and away from it all, and yet necessarily dragged into low-tidal lock each day: GoogleMeets were blue, and there's nothing I could do.

I look forward to more ᴀᴄᴛɪᴠᴇʟʏ interactive days. But not before a sorely-needed vacation.
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Khemehekis »

Lambuzhao wrote: 02 Jul 2021 20:53
Khemehekis wrote: 30 Jun 2021 15:24
Lambuzhao wrote: 29 Jun 2021 00:09 I would say I was away down South, or even in E-Space/The Gamma Quadrant, but it was more like I was trapped in some kind of combo of an Input/Output Guardian's plinth + the creepy cyberpunk container from The Matrix.
An Input/Output Guardian? Is that something from Doctor Who? Sure sounds like it.
From TRON. Both Dumont and the (previous incarnation of the) MCP were both I/O Guardians.
Ah, TRON. That's Chris Gikas' favorite movie. (Chris Gikas, for those who don't remember, is my friend who passed away in 2017.)
Khemehekis wrote: 30 Jun 2021 15:24
Lambuzhao wrote: 29 Jun 2021 00:09 Glad to be free. I may not be here as often as I'd like. But I am glad to be free of that Year that Would Not End.
It was harder for extroverts like me than for introverts, that's for sure. But at least I didn't have to get up early every day to sit in a cramped van and listen to other people's radio stations.
How true! My son is more of an introvert, and he loved not having to trapse back and forth to University: all online courses for him! He got a 4.0 GPA (out of 4), so I cannot complain.
Good for him! (He isn't one of those introverts who has zero friends, is he?)
Extrovert or not, there was a lot of whip-cracking for us teachers of secondary-schools to make sure everything was up to date and connected online and google-meet open, and accepting of late assignments, while the we were lucky to get participation from any of them, no matter how\what we tried. Never had I felt so much like I was floating in a tin-can, far above and away from it all, and yet necessarily dragged into low-tidal lock each day: GoogleMeets were blue, and there's nothing I could do.

I look forward to more ᴀᴄᴛɪᴠᴇʟʏ interactive days. But not before a sorely-needed vacation.
I applaud all of you for your acceptance of late assignments! [+1]

Blue, as in the color of the ocean?
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 78,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Dormouse559 »

Today I had a case of … ANADET? (A natlang already did exactly that.) Years ago, I independently came up with a syntax for introducing subjunctive clauses in Silvish, specifically designed to be not-French. I've pretty much stopped using it at this point, though. But while reading a grammar for Old French today, I found out that Old French used the exact same construction [:O] Now that I know the construction actually existed, maybe I should reintroduce it in Silvish.
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All4Ɇn
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by All4Ɇn »

Dormouse559 wrote: 13 Jul 2021 09:17 Today I had a case of … ANADET? (A natlang already did exactly that.) Years ago, I independently came up with a syntax for introducing subjunctive clauses in Silvish, specifically designed to be not-French. I've pretty much stopped using it at this point, though. But while reading a grammar for Old French today, I found out that Old French used the exact same construction [:O] Now that I know the construction actually existed, maybe I should reintroduce it in Silvish.
What was the construction exactly?
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by All4Ɇn »

Lambuzhao wrote: 02 Jul 2021 20:28 Beðakk so mikeld!![/b]
:mrgreen:
You remembered! [:D]
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by shimobaatar »

Dormouse559 wrote: 13 Jul 2021 09:17 Today I had a case of … ANADET? (A natlang already did exactly that.) Years ago, I independently came up with a syntax for introducing subjunctive clauses in Silvish, specifically designed to be not-French. I've pretty much stopped using it at this point, though. But while reading a grammar for Old French today, I found out that Old French used the exact same construction [:O] Now that I know the construction actually existed, maybe I should reintroduce it in Silvish.
Oh, that's fun! [:D]
All4Ɇn wrote: 14 Jul 2021 15:40 What was the construction exactly?
I'm curious as well.
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Dormouse559 »

All4Ɇn wrote: 14 Jul 2021 15:40 What was the construction exactly?
shimobaatar wrote: 14 Jul 2021 16:05 I'm curious as well.
In expressions of orders and requests, the desired action is placed in a subjunctive subordinate clause, and the person receiving the order is both the indirect object of the independent clause and the subject of the subordinate. Here's an example the grammar gave, with the subjunctive verb bolded, and references to the order recipient underlined:

Deus … li mandat … qu’il te dunast a un cunte cataignie.
god 3S.DAT order-PST SBRD=3S.NOM 2S.ACC give-SBJV.IPF to INDEF count valiant
God ordered him to give you to a valiant count.

And here's a Silvish translation:

Li Bondyé ly ordoné ke te balyï on kontï valyan.
DEF god 3S.DAT order-PST SBRD 2S.ACC give-SBJV.PRS to_INDEF count-ACC valiant

The constructions are essentially the same, except that in Silvish the subjunctive clause is pro-drop (which Old French often is) and the exact tense of the subjunctive in this sentence is different. The biggest difference was that I originally imagined using this construction in more subjunctive contexts than just orders; I'll have to think about that.

In Modern French, it's more typical to use an infinitive:

Dieu lui ordonna de te donner à un vaillant comte.
god 3S.DAT order-PST of 2S.ACC give-INF to INDEF valiant count
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Salmoneus »

The construction with a subordinate clause also used to be far more common in English ("I order that you..."), though this has become less common (except with some verbs, like "demand"). This could/can indeed sometimes be paired with an indirect object as the recipient of the command, though the direct is more common. (again 'demand' is different, as it prefers an 'of' argument).

So, the NET Bible gives one version of an interpolation into Esther as containing the quote: "we therefore have ordered you that you destroy one and all of those indicated to you".

Similarly, the Wycliffe bible has this in Deuteronomy: "the Lord commanded to you, that ye turn no more again by the same way".
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by All4Ɇn »

I used to make a lot of mistakes in French using similar constructions before I realized the extent to which infinitive constructions are used. I quite like the look of it in Old French & Silvish though.
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

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Salmoneus wrote: 14 Jul 2021 22:41 The construction with a subordinate clause also used to be far more common in English ("I order that you..."), though this has become less common (except with some verbs, like "demand"). […]
Thanks! I didn't know about that.
All4Ɇn wrote: 15 Jul 2021 03:26 I used to make a lot of mistakes in French using similar constructions before I realized the extent to which infinitive constructions are used. I quite like the look of it in Old French & Silvish though.
It took me a while to get used to the infinitive usage in French, too (Elle dit l'avoir vu = She says that she saw him?), but there's a certain elegance to it, I think. I'm hoping using some Old French-like forms will add a bit of the conservatism I want in the conlang.
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by shimobaatar »

Dormouse559 wrote: 14 Jul 2021 21:01
All4Ɇn wrote: 14 Jul 2021 15:40 What was the construction exactly?
shimobaatar wrote: 14 Jul 2021 16:05 I'm curious as well.
Spoiler:
In expressions of orders and requests, the desired action is placed in a subjunctive subordinate clause, and the person receiving the order is both the indirect object of the independent clause and the subject of the subordinate. Here's an example the grammar gave, with the subjunctive verb bolded, and references to the order recipient underlined:

Deus … li mandat … qu’il te dunast a un cunte cataignie.
god 3S.DAT order-PST SBRD=3S.NOM 2S.DAT give-SBJV.IPF to INDEF count valiant
God ordered him to give you to a valiant count.

And here's a Silvish translation:

Li Bondyé ly ordoné ke te balyï on kontï valyan.
DEF god 3S.DAT order-PST SBRD 2S.DAT give-SBJV.PRS to_INDEF count-ACC valiant

The constructions are essentially the same, except that in Silvish the subjunctive clause is pro-drop (which Old French often is) and the exact tense of the subjunctive in this sentence is different. The biggest difference was that I originally imagined using this construction in more subjunctive contexts than just orders; I'll have to think about that.

In Modern French, it's more typical to use an infinitive:

Dieu lui ordonna de te donner à un vaillant comte.
god 3S.DAT order-PST of 2S.DAT give-INF to INDEF valiant count
Oh, cool! Thanks for the explanation! [:D]
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Khemehekis »

It's interesting, because when I'm speaking Spanish with Hispanic people I know, and I have to say a construction like "ask you to come" or "want him to teach me" I'll instinctively translate it as "pedir que usted viene" or "querer que él me enseña".
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

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Khemehekis wrote: 21 Jul 2021 08:28 It's interesting, because when I'm speaking Spanish with Hispanic people I know, and I have to say a construction like "ask you to come" or "want him to teach me" I'll instinctively translate it as "pedir que usted viene" or "querer que él me enseña".
On a general level that's not surprising. I would expect Old French to bear some resemblance to Romance languages that have been more conservative than Modern French. For what it's worth, French does use a subordinate for "want" statements: Je veux qu'il m'enseigne. It's orders that trigger an infinitive. The underlying idea seems to be a preference for infinitives any time they won't create ambiguity. Command verbs already take the order recipient as an argument, so a subordinate clause isn't necessary for clarity.
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by eldin raigmore »

My junior college French teacher had a nephew who was a pastor in … Brittany or Normandy or Armorica or some such place, I think? Or maybe it was Quebec, because apparently some of them spoke English?
He told her when he was new there that he had never met so many people all named Joe Bennisse.
(After services they’d tell him “que Dieu vous benisse”.)
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Man in Space »

I’m a bit hesitant to post this lest I give off the wrong impression, but I am happy about it and I want to share: I have been accepted into Mensa.
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AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by elemtilas »

Man in Space wrote: 29 Jul 2021 03:34 I’m a bit hesitant to post this lest I give off the wrong impression, but I am happy about it and I want to share: I have been accepted into Mensa.
Congratulations!

Though I really fail to see why you'd be giving the wrong impression.
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Man in Space »

elemtilas wrote: 29 Jul 2021 15:38
Man in Space wrote: 29 Jul 2021 03:34 I’m a bit hesitant to post this lest I give off the wrong impression, but I am happy about it and I want to share: I have been accepted into Mensa.
Congratulations!

Though I really fail to see why you'd be giving the wrong impression.
I know news of attaining status there meets a negative reception sometimes. I…kind of feel embarrassed sharing it, like it negatively reflects on me that I’m like “Ooh, I’m in Mensa! Nyah-nyah” and that’s not how I want to come across at all.

Kind of a Catch-22.
Twin Aster megathread

AVDIO · VIDEO · DISCO

CC = Common Caber
CK = Classical Khaya
CT = Classical Ĝate n Tim Ar
Kg = Kgáweq'
PO = Proto-O
PTa = Proto-Taltic
PTO = Proto-Tim Ar-O
STK = Sisỏk Tlar Kyanà
Tm = Təmattwəspwaypksma
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by DesEsseintes »

Man in Space wrote: 29 Jul 2021 03:34I have been accepted into Mensa.
Congratulations! [:D]
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