The Sixth Conversation Thread

What can I say? It doesn't fit above, put it here. Also the location of board rules/info.
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Parlox
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Parlox »

elemtilas wrote:
05 Jun 2020 19:40
Please try not to make assumptions about others or put words in their mouth. You don't know me. You don't know my experience with sexuality, gender choice, and personhood, so don't go there, okay? Nobody's making fun of anything. This threadlet wás about Mr Floyd and the sequelae of his murder, but as it's now degenerating into gendershaming land, I won't say anything further.

Next topic, please!
Nowhere did I put words in your mouth, I simply quoted what you said. And no I don't your experiences with those, but considering your comment was incendiary and rude I felt that I had a right to comment. If you didn't mean to make fun of anything than I apologize for what I said.

And also, what the fuck? Where the hell did I gendershame you.
  • :con: Gondolan, the pride of the Gondolan empire.
  • :con: Tsodanian, a tri-cons language with heavy armenian influence.
  • :con: Yaponese, an isolated language in Japan.
  • :con: Mothaukan, crazy tonal language.

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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Salmoneus »

Parlox wrote:
05 Jun 2020 17:43

Also I have no idea what "LGBXYZ" is supposed to mean, the most common term is simple LGBT. It costs you nothing to make fun of the issues people experience with their sexuality, gender, and person.
While I agree that elemtilas' expression was potentially offensive, it should be noted that 'LGBT' is seen as an offensive and out-of-date term by many as well (although my anecdotal impression is that it's coming back into fashion? Or at least that the extended forms are going out of fashion? But I don't know).

I'm also a bit perplexed by your meaning in the second sentence, which reads like you're encouraging him to make fun? Normally, 'it costs you nothing to be polite!' and the like are used to tell people to do something they're not doing, not to tell people not to do something that they are doing.

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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by KaiTheHomoSapien »

I'm a young LGBT person and I can say that "LGBT" is by far the most popular term. Other terms that are common are LGBT+ or LGBTQ where "Q" and "+" cover anything else not covered by LGBT. The long acronyms I almost never see anymore and even LGBT people themselves sometimes mock them or at least indicate that they are impractical.

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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Parlox »

Salmoneus wrote:
05 Jun 2020 23:24
While I agree that elemtilas' expression was potentially offensive, it should be noted that 'LGBT' is seen as an offensive and out-of-date term by many as well (although my anecdotal impression is that it's coming back into fashion? Or at least that the extended forms are going out of fashion? But I don't know).

I'm also a bit perplexed by your meaning in the second sentence, which reads like you're encouraging him to make fun? Normally, 'it costs you nothing to be polite!' and the like are used to tell people to do something they're not doing, not to tell people not to do something that they are doing.
Kai pretty answered exactly how I was going to above, so I agree with him there

And it was a typo, I meant to say "it costs you nothing to not make fun of". Stupid that I pretty much forgot the most important morpheme of that sentence. Ah well.
  • :con: Gondolan, the pride of the Gondolan empire.
  • :con: Tsodanian, a tri-cons language with heavy armenian influence.
  • :con: Yaponese, an isolated language in Japan.
  • :con: Mothaukan, crazy tonal language.

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eldin raigmore
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Khan langurs?

Post by eldin raigmore »

Watching an Artifexian post to YouTu.be, with automatic subtitles on.
Saw a reference to “Khan langurs”.
Does that phrase inspire anyone else?

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jimydog000
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by jimydog000 »

Oh right, my "B" doesn't ryme with "Z" so I didn't at first understand why you would use that anagram or why it was disrespectful.

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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Salmoneus »

Ain propósing modestiga fur ain parladom ekumaniga

Multigan koncépiting fur parladoman ekumanigan habínan gapropósidan, bai numerilasan propósimanan. Unyat su multiga frum ila propósingan makan selfan su spartédigifulan mit du finalingan omisímiligan, -ar, -al, -or, -ment, -ura, etc!

Fur ka nosan ni kan pa posesan una tempa ain parladoman ekumanigan mit finalingan jermanigan?

Su:
poses- : verba
posesadom, posesachipa, posesahaita, posesing : naunan astrákigan
posesastufa, posesacinga : naunan konkretigan
posesaman : naunan agentilikan
posesiga, posesicha, posesifula, posesilasa : ajékitivan

etc.

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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Tanni »

A spoken word film for an online generation: Look Up | Gary Turk - Official Video
My neurochemistry has fucked my impulse control, now I'm diagnosed OOD = oppositional opinion disorder, one of the most deadly diseases in totalitarian states, but can be cured in the free world.

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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by sangi39 »

A friend recently bought some fabric, and they've found a few instances of what I think might be Chinese characters in a couple of places. I was wondering if anyone might have any idea what it might say:

Image

The best I can make out of it might be "antique" for the first two characters, and then maybe "sheep skin" for the first two characters of the second set of three (possible "parchment"?). Hoping someone can do a lot better than me.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

Bob
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Bob »

Dormouse559 wrote:
15 Apr 2020 00:17
Khemehekis wrote:
09 Apr 2020 05:21
"Weird and wonderful" is a great way to put it. And I agree that the lexicon disappointingly veers little from English.
I have to admit I was hoping you'd found documentation of Marc Okrand's Atlantean. Ah well [xD] Why can't we live in the universe where "Atlantis" was a smash hit and there are whole wikis about the conlang?
All of the fans of Okrand Atlantean from the movie Atlantis: The Lost Empire are on the 20 year old, 500 member facebook group:

Atlantis the Lost Empire Atlantean Language by Dr. Marc Okrand
https://www.facebook.com/groups/377768309042171/

I have been the leader of the group since 2007 when I was made thus by Group Founder Paul Sherrill Jr. of Okemos, Michigan. I move it to Facebook from Yahoo Groups about 2015. I am also the leader decipherer and promoter of the language. I have a BA Linguistics from Michigan State University from back in 2009. I'm an independent scholar of all 50 or so known hieroglyphic writing systems ( aka logographic writing systems). So my linguistics is not that good because logographic writing systems are very complex. The major families of these are Egyptian, Chinese, Mayan, and Cuneiform. Then I otherwise study lots of ancient languages and have a secondary focus on the 20 or so ancient languages of the Bible.

I just joined this website today, too. I don't think I ever joined it before. I have visited Zompist Bboard for a month or two about 5 times in my life but never the Brown.Edu conlang mailing list. Or maybe once.

I have been posting about Atlantean the last few months to Zompist Bboard:

https://www.verduria.org/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=651

But most of my posts about it are to that facebook group or to a group I joined a few months ago, the 20,000 member Atlantis: The Lost Empireposting facebook group.

...

We've gotten 100-200 new member from that group the past 3 months on the facebook group. 500 total now. I forget how many total members the Yahoo Group ever had. The last 15 years, there hasn't been much interest in the language. Back around 2006 when I started working on it, there was one other member who would write to me in it. And then the last 2 years, there's been my co-admin "Titus" and we've written to eachother in Atlantean a few times. Otherwise, a few of the people who have written me told me they talked to their friends and family in the language.

And then we get decipherment contributions every few years but people don't do much with the language. It's mostly a fan art sort of thing, you look up the words and letters and put it on your fan art and wait a few months for other fans to notice and show appreciation.

I've been working on it the last few months but I generally only work on the language for a few hours once or twice a year.

I've translated some smaller texts into Atlantean over the years. In 2018, I did the largest translation I had ever done. And then the last few months, I've been putting online an even bigger one. So in some ways, it's mostly just me into the language. But there's some people out there interested in it, so I'm there for them and recently have been searching them out on YouTube and telling them about the facebook group.

A couple years ago, Okrand finally started writing me back. So if you got any questions, please ask. He's been telling me really amazing stuff the past month or so, I hope to put it on the facebook group and in a website.

Here's the links to my webpages on Atlantean, in case anyone doesn't want to go to my Zompist Bboard post or join the facebook group:

2
Okrand's Atlantean: 10.29.2010 Complete Corpus
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard


39
New Quick Atlantean Grammar 10 14 2018
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2018/1 ... w=flipcard

"200k Atlantean Word Dictionary"
https://200katlantean.blogspot.com/

5
Okrand's Atlantean: 9.7.2010 Grammar
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard

7
Okrand's Atlantean: Atlantean Root Etymology
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard


3
Okrand's Atlantean: 9.7.2010 A - E Canonical
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard


4
Okrand's Atlantean: 9.7.2010 E/A - A\ E Canonical Dictionary
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard

26
Okrand's Atlantean: 9.7.2010 E/A - A\ E Canonical Dictionary
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard


6
Okrand's Atlantean: A Reader
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard


8
Okrand's Atlantean: Deciphered Shepherd's Journal
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard



9
Okrand's Atlantean: Deciphering the Shepherd's Journal
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard


10
Okrand's Atlantean: Fanonical Dictionary E to A
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard


11
Okrand's Atlantean: Home / Image / Reader
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard



12
Okrand's Atlantean: Links
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard



13
Okrand's Atlantean: Numbers in Atlantean and New Atlantean
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard



14
Okrand's Atlantean: Old Wikipedia Article
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard

15
Okrand's Atlantean: The Tomb Raider - ATLE Connection
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard



41
Atlantean Translation of 2 James Bateman Stories
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2018/1 ... w=flipcard

42
Study of Subordinate Clause Markers from the Atlantean Corpus
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2018/1 ... w=flipcard


...

Then here's what I'm working on now:

New Texts in Okrand Atlantean with an Ancient African Conlang: Medieval West Africa Texts
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... w=flipcard

Images for Previous Post:
New Texts in Okrand Atlantean with an Ancient Africa Conlang: Medieval West Africa Texts
https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2020/0 ... w=flipcard

...

To top it all off, I also specialize in the comparative anthropology of beliefs and ideas (comparative religion), but it's after logographic writing systems and the 20 or ancient Biblical languages. And then I've also spent more effort than anyone else, it seems, in documenting and deciphering conlangs and pseudo-conlangs from famous books, tv, and movies. I've also studied those documented and deciphered by others. I also make my own conlangs, though not very big ones usually, and have studied many conlangs of others over the years.

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elemtilas
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by elemtilas »

Bob wrote:
09 Jul 2020 08:06

All of the fans of Okrand Atlantean from the movie Atlantis: The Lost Empire are on the 20 year old, 500 member facebook group:
Greetings!

I think the same suggestions would apply here as to clarity and legibility of posts.

Also, we have a forum called "Conlangs" where your work on other people's languages would probably fit better. Just try to keep separate threads for separate topics and you'll be fine.

I just joined this website today, too. I don't think I ever joined it before.
Welcome! You'll find a bit of overlap between here and there.
I have visited Zompist Bboard for a month or two about 5 times in my life
You're actually quite the prolific over there.
but never the Brown.Edu conlang mailing list. Or maybe once.
You were there posting as George Mann, as I recall, Larry.
I have been posting about Atlantean the last few months to Zompist Bboard:

Indeed. Perhaps here you can focus on your own invented languages and cultures? That would be nice to see! We also have a forum for Conworlds & Concultures!
To top it all off, I also specialize in the comparative anthropology of beliefs and ideas (comparative religion), but it's after logographic writing systems and the 20 or ancient Biblical languages. And then I've also spent more effort than anyone else, it seems, in documenting and deciphering conlangs and pseudo-conlangs from famous books, tv, and movies. I've also studied those documented and deciphered by others. I also make my own conlangs, though not very big ones usually, and have studied many conlangs of others over the years.
If any of that seeps into your own invented worlds, I for one would much rather hear about your own works than carbon copies of what we've seen at ZBB and FB re Atlantean, Pakuni, etc.

"Deciphering" other people's work is, you know, myeh. Let us see what your own creativity is up to!

Khemehekis
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Khemehekis »

Bob wrote:
09 Jul 2020 08:06
"200k Atlantean Word Dictionary"
https://200katlantean.blogspot.com/
First of all, I'd like to say welcome to this forum, Bob.

I saw your "200k-word dictionary" link with rapt anticipation. After all, I have a list online of conlangs with over 10,000 words (https://www.frathwiki.com/Conlangs_with ... ,000_words), and the largest I've encountered is Mark P. Line's Classical Yiklamu, with 91,591. My own Kankonian is in fifth place, having over 66,000 words in its lexicon.

When I checked out your word lists, though, I was disappointed. What you have is basically a cipher of English (a computer-generated cipher, as a matter of fact). For example, you have "figure , gureg20" and "figure , tazit52". (You don't even specify which one is the noun and which one is the verb.) For a word like "figure", my Kankonian dictionary lists nine translations. Meila is build, like "She has a nice figure". Inehwil is to be a factor, as in "That all figures in this equation". Praisi is statistics, as in "The 98% figure on the Trump question shocked me". Barukh is a numeral, as in "a figure 8". Nalosh is also used for the meaning of 'to assume', while kinir means to use reasoning, or 'to reckon', and is used in sentences like "I figure that if I go to bed at 7:30 p.m, I'll be able to get up at 4:30 a.m. and be at the station by 6 to catch that train . . ." Instar is a scientific illustration/diagram, as in "See fig. 4". In fact, the word isnaloshas (lit. "I figure" or "I assume") is placed at the end of Kankonian sentences to form tag questions. Dren is used for things like an authority figure or a father figure. You'd use *omos for the "hitokage" sense of "figure", as in, "I saw a shadowy figure". Then there's azraum for "to figure out", and eabospa for "to figure big", and stoiza for "to figure prominently". A "figure of speech" is doinktrak.

What makes it even more of a cipher is all the suppletive forms for the plural nouns and different verb forms. "Dog", for instance, is either "zemubin29" or "dahol72", while "dogs" is "kekil55". In any human language, these would be visibly related. A little suppletion is OK (English has "be, is, am, are, was, were" and "go, went"), but you have things like "ber8" for "smile", "yeypag52" for "smiled", "mezih64" for "smiling", and "tanon16" for "smiles".

Then you have computer-generated equivalents for proper names. How is "delen41" supposed to have evolved from Stephen, or "kropat32" from Michael, or "zewuk18" from Kate? You even have surname puzzlers like "holos22" for Johnson.

Instead of just computer-generating a suppletion-filled relex for 200,000 English wordforms, why not use the Landau Core Vocabulary? It's a word/concept list I've been developing since 1997. Different meanings and the distinctions in semantic concepts that real natlangs make are covered, and I have the most important words in English (a naturalistic conlang based on the LCV, with no other words, would have about 6,500 entries in its dictionary, but even if you computer-generate a relex of the LCV, you'll have more than 10,000 words; you'll also have an extreme splitlang, but that's better than a near-cipher of English).

The LCV also has an appendix of 250 girls' names and 250 boys' names with their major forms across Earth's languages (Anne, Ana, Anna, Anita, Annika, Oneika, Anja, Anya, Annette, etc.) You can hand-make Atlantean names that are related to each of these (maybe Anne can be Onah, and Greg can be Kreekhor, or whatever) and you'll have names that would plausibly be translations of these. The LCV also has 500 surnames (the 10 most common names from each of 50 ethno-linguistics groups, with no duplicates across the 50 categories), which you'll almost certainly just transliterate into Atlantean (So Davis would be something like Deybis instead of "lapor9".)

If you PM me your email address, I can send you the LCV, as I have it polished up right now (it's still not ready to go up online). You can work on translating it (you might consider doing it by hand instead of computer-generating the words; that way you can decide which concepts will share the same word and which won't).
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

Bob
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Bob »

Khemehekis wrote:
10 Jul 2020 04:24
...
Wow, I've read about you before. Congratulations. It's amazing to meet you, you're one of my family's heroes.

I consider conlanging the future of language science, so I thank you for you contribution to language science. I have a BA Linguistics from Michigan State University from 2009.

...

If you read the introduction to the dictionary, the first page, I think I explain that it's not actually a conlang dictionary. It's material for use in inventing new Okrand Atlantean words. The words are computer-generated and based on the 500 or so known words in Okrand Atlantean.

Here they are. The ones marked "unknown" have English values which are "assignments" by me because they're from parts of the corpus for which we have no translation.

https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard

...

I've been really into conlanging since about 2006 but mostly document and decipher conlangs in books tv and movies. Of them, Klingon and Na'vi from Avatar have the largest number of words or lexemes.

The largest conlang I ever made had maybe 500 words. But in all ways, it was a close derivative of Proto-Indo-European, not unlike Okrand Atlantean. It was mostly an exercise for me to learn Proto-Indo-European better.

But otherwise, the most translation I've ever done in a conlang has been in the last two years into one of these conlangs from famous books tv and movies. And my conlangs are usually the shortest possible grammatical sketches and then I do conscripts of unprecedented complexity because I'm an independent scholar language scientist specializing in logographic writing systems and then writing systems more generally.

I also study conlangs more generally but end up giving the most famous or notable ones more attention. I may do work on your conlang one day because of its large number of words.

Bob
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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Bob »

elemtilas wrote:
09 Jul 2020 09:27
...
You're so kind to me. I read everything you said here, also.

I'm reading a lot of what people suggest to me here and on Zompist Bboard but have limited time online and actually don't work on conlangs that much overall. So I'm trying to make the most of my enthusiasm while it lasts.

I'm mostly an independent scholar of the language science of logographic writing systems. That's most of what I do with my language study time.

I have my website and have done many pages about some of my decipherments of conlangs in famous books, TV, and movies yet I have found that, not so surprisingly, few other people are interested enough to double-check my work. Which is part of why I was the first to decipher them.

Anyway, I posted this here, apparently a Conworlds section, and then made a new thread for it in Conlangs forum of Conlangs Bulletin Board. Let's see who replies to both and what they say! It's hard for me to keep checking on threads, though, because I don't do much aside from check facebook groups and make new webpages for my websites (which are Eblogger blogs).

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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by Khemehekis »

Bob wrote:
10 Jul 2020 05:21
Wow, I've read about you before. Congratulations. It's amazing to meet you, you're one of my family's heroes.
You already know about me? [:D] That's great! I'm honored to be one of your family's heroes. So your whole family, not just you, knows about the world of conlanging? I'm pleased to meet you, Bob!

Have you seen the grammar of Kankonian I have on Angelfire? If you like my work, you'll probably enjoy it.
I consider conlanging the future of language science, so I thank you for you contribution to language science. I have a BA Linguistics from Michigan State University from 2009.
You're welcome! And it's good to see people majoring in linguistics!

I like to think I make contributions by dealing with the things I observe about language and "fixing" them in Kankonian or another one of my conlangs. For instance, when Dr. Seuss said "green eggs and ham", he really meant "green eggs and green ham", not green eggs, plus ham that was pink or whatever. So I asked, "What if?", and in Kankonian was born the particle osh:

kehas kran mui trahi osh
egg-PL green and ham OSH
green eggs and [green] ham

Or in English, "dog" can either mean (a) any member of Canis lupus familiaris, or (b) an adult dog, as opposed to a puppy: "The puppy will one day grow into a dog". I asked, "Why not have marked terms for the adult members of a species as well as the young?", and thus came: karaph (dog), karaphi* (puppy), karaphokh (adult dog).
If you read the introduction to the dictionary, the first page, I think I explain that it's not actually a conlang dictionary. It's material for use in inventing new Okrand Atlantean words. The words are computer-generated and based on the 500 or so known words in Okrand Atlantean.
Oh, OK, good. So it's more of a data dump than a finished dictionary, you could say. Maybe someone will be able to build a complete dictionary from it soon.
Here they are. The ones marked "unknown" have English values which are "assignments" by me because they're from parts of the corpus for which we have no translation.

https://naviklingon.blogspot.com/2015/0 ... w=flipcard
You worked that all out? Impressive!
I've been really into conlanging since about 2006 but mostly document and decipher conlangs in books tv and movies. Of them, Klingon and Na'vi from Avatar have the largest number of words or lexemes.
I see you are a fan of Marc Okrand, and have studied his Atlantean quite a bit (and also mention Klingon). Are you aware that there's a chabal tetlh (wishlist) vote for new Klingon words (for the qep'a' later this month) at http://kli.org/chabal ? If you register (even as a guest), you can vote word requests up or down. I made the requests for "headphones" and "disorder, disability, syndrome, condition" at that page, posting there as HemeHeqIS, the Klingonization of my screenname. (Actually, it should be HemeHe'qIS, but the software didn't let me use apostrophes in my chosen name.)
The largest conlang I ever made had maybe 500 words. But in all ways, it was a close derivative of Proto-Indo-European, not unlike Okrand Atlantean. It was mostly an exercise for me to learn Proto-Indo-European better.
A lost branch, maybe? Have you ever tried your hand at creating a proto-lang for an entire phylum (like PIE or Proto-Austronesian or Proto-Afro-Asiatic)?
But otherwise, the most translation I've ever done in a conlang has been in the last two years into one of these conlangs from famous books tv and movies. And my conlangs are usually the shortest possible grammatical sketches and then I do conscripts of unprecedented complexity because I'm an independent scholar language scientist specializing in logographic writing systems and then writing systems more generally.
Have you met Clawgrp here, with Himmaswa, or Linguifex, with his Caber logograms? They do amazing logographies that I think you'd love to study.
I also study conlangs more generally but end up giving the most famous or notable ones more attention. I may do work on your conlang one day because of its large number of words.
Oh, that'd be so awesome if you study my conlang! My Kankonian dictionary should be complete and up on the Net in a few years.
♂♥♂♀

Squirrels chase koi . . . chase squirrels

My Kankonian-English dictionary: 66,000 words and counting

31,416: The number of the conlanging beast!

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Re: The Sixth Conversation Thread

Post by sangi39 »

Khemehekis wrote:
12 Jul 2020 10:30
Have you met Clawgrp here, with Himmaswa, or Linguifex, with his Caber logograms? They do amazing logographies that I think you'd love to study.
Don't forget Naduta as well (which I think functions in a similar manner to Sumerian or Akkadian, as opposed to Himmaswa which, IIRC, functions in a similar manner to Chinese characters).
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.

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