Hello and a Question!

[M. Park]

Hello, CBB

My name is Matt and I am new to the conlanging world. I’ve only been working on my language for about 3 weeks (cumulative time over 4 months). While I will admit I am not a linguist, I am an English Major with an enthusiasm for words and language. I can only hope that will be enough.

I have just started to turn my language notes into something someone else could read, and unfortunately this is where I’ve run into a whole host of problems. I know what things should sound like, and I know long-winded ways to describe what they should sound like, but I just know there must be some simple way to describe them, I just don’t know them. The good news is I’ve worked as an editor for some time so at the very least when I present my conlang it will be in a neat PDF. So that’s one thing I got going good.

I am hoping as long as I keep these questions to the Beginner’s corner this won’t be too much of a problem. I’m sure my questions will be so rudimentary that you experts will have no problem answering them.

Now onto the possibly simple question:

Right now I am writing up all I can about how various consonants sound when mashed up with other consonants or whether they sound different at the start or the end of a word. Currently I am on R. I have R being an alveolar trill when at the start of a word or in the middle when following certain vowels in the middle or end of a word. When, however, it is at the end of a word but proceeded by a consonant I want it to be pronounced ‘er’. I’ve tried to find what this would be called. I know it appears in certain Scandinavian languages (correct me if I’m wrong).

Does this feature have a name?

Thank you.

[xinda]

A syllabic alveolar approximant perhaps?
[ɹ̩]

So
/r/ > [r] (alveolar trill) in most positions
/r/ > [ɹ̩], word final preceded by consonant

[Ossicone]

Welcome!

Describing sounds is best done with IPA (or XSAMPA if you have difficulty entering the symbols). I think you are at least slightly familiar with IPA though because you mentioned an 'alveolar trill.'
But if you're not here is an introductory lesson.

It's hard to guess what the sound is your describing. My first instinct is maybe /ə˞/ as in American English < dinner >.
However, if it's in a Scandinavian language maybe you mean /ɽ/.

Perhaps you could explain to us how your pronounce it? Or listen to the sound files on the wiki and see if any of them sound right.

[M. Park]

Thank you for the help. In the future I will try to give more example for what I’m trying to understand. I have been trying to teach myself IPA through Wikipedia and the Dictionary, with limited success. I notice there are a few posts here with the phrase “IPA Lessons” and I will be looking at them before I ask any more sound related questions.

It's hard to guess what the sound is your describing. My first instinct is maybe /ə˞/ as in American English < dinner >.

Thank you Ossicone, this was the sound I was describing, and you did more than answer it you made me realize that if I know what the sound is, and there is an easier way to explain it, go with the easy way rather than assuming there must be some obscure term that I just don’t know yet.

I found a copy of an old Icelandic Dictionary (its copy right has expired, so there are no IPA examples that I can see) but here would be an example of one of the words:


Kraeklingr, M a shell, a common sea snail

My understanding is phonetically it would be pronounced Krækˈlɪŋ gər, and not Krækˈlɪŋ gr
Thank you again for the help and patience. I think I will go to the bookstore tomorrow and buy some language dictionaries.

[Aevas]

That's a syllabic /r/ in Old Icelandic, so the word would indeed be pronounced /ˈkrɛːkliŋgr̩/.

[Trailsend]

Terminology tip:

how various consonants sound when mashed up with other consonants or whether they sound different at the start or the end of a word.

This is called allophony, so you could have (more concisely) written "Right now I am writing up all I can about allophony." for you--allophony is an intermediate concept that a lot of conlangers don't pick up on until later. Nice work!

[Thakowsaizmu]

Hello, CBB

Hi.

[CMunk]

If the sound you're looking for isn't rhotic, maybe you mean [ɐ] or [ɐ̯]. That's we pronounce <er> in Danish and German.

Edit: Never mind, just saw you had found the sound you were looking for

[M. Park]

Thank you CMunk, doing a little research on that symbol I found this listed in the wikipedia entry on Danish phonology, in a table of allophones:


Phoneme in syllable onset in syllable coda
/r/ [ʁ] [ɐ̯]


Im pretty sure thats what I was looking for. Thank you

[Globydna]

If you aren't very familiar with IPA, I have found this to be really helpful (and still do).

[Avjunza]

Hello, CBB

Tēnā koe, Matt.

P.S:

Spoiler:

It's hard to guess what the sound is your describing...

...Perhaps you could explain to us how your pronounce it?

Had to!