I need help and advice for my language's inventory.

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doyleisanewconlanger
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I need help and advice for my language's inventory.

Post by doyleisanewconlanger »

https://imgur.com/a/u3qXZzO
You can look at this to see my languages inventory and rules. I came here because while I want my language to be cool (to me), breathy, and a bit throaty. I also want it to be a believable language. I also would like to lower my inventory even more, so any suggestions on that. Even if this is good for now, what sounds do you think should merge once this language evolves. I want to keep what makes this language unique.
Also how is my romanization for the letters that aren't the same as the ipa?
Last edited by doyleisanewconlanger on 09 Dec 2020 03:16, edited 1 time in total.
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sangi39
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Re: I need help and advice for my language's inventory.

Post by sangi39 »

doyleisanewconlanger wrote: 08 Dec 2020 11:47 https://imgur.com/a/u3qXZzO
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
You can look at these to see my languages inventory and rules. I came here because while I want my language to be cool (to me), breathy, and a bit throaty. I also want it to be a believable language. I also would like to lower my inventory even more, so any suggestions on that. Even if this is good for now, what sounds do you think should merge once this language evolves. I want to keep what makes this language unique.
Also how is my romanization for the letters that aren't the same as the ipa?
I actually really like this inventory, and the romanisation as well (Spanish-inspired?).

As for potential mergers, well, I think there's room for quite a few, e.g. /q/ could merge into either /k/ or /ʔ/, and /ħ/ could similarly merge into either /x/ or /h/ (or /x/ could merge into /ħ/), /k/ could merge into /tʃ/, /tʃ/ could merge into /ts/, the affricates could merge into their fricative counterparts.

Conditional sound changes are probably the ones that could be the most fun, e.g. /k q/ > /tʃ k/ before /i/ so that you keep /k/ and /tʃ/ in all environments, but /q/ only appears before /u/ and /a/, and then you might end up with conditional /k/~/tʃ/ and /q/~/k/ alternations if, say, you have any suffixes that begin with and /i/, with the former being irregular because you've still got the original instances of /tʃi/ as well (for example, say you have /natʃ/, /lik/ and /puq/, which take a plural suffix -/i/, yielding /natʃi/, /liki/ and /puqi/. With the conditional fronting before /i/, this would result in /natʃ/ vs /natʃi/, /lik/ vs. /litʃi/ and /puq/ vs. /puki/).

But yeah, there's lots of little changes you can make that wouldn't change the inventory a huge amount, but that could result in some nice little flares as the language evolves.
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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eldin raigmore
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Re: I need help and advice for my language's inventory.

Post by eldin raigmore »

Very impressive for the first thing I see from someone new-to-me!
Since this isn’t the kind of thing I’ve been thinking about for the last few-to-several weeks I have trouble coming up with any perspicacious praise or constructive criticism.
Beyond “wow! If you’re really new it doesn’t show!”
doyleisanewconlanger
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Re: I need help and advice for my language's inventory.

Post by doyleisanewconlanger »

eldin raigmore wrote: 08 Dec 2020 16:25 Very impressive for the first thing I see from someone new-to-me!
Since this isn’t the kind of thing I’ve been thinking about for the last few-to-several weeks I have trouble coming up with any perspicacious praise or constructive criticism.
Beyond “wow! If you’re really new it doesn’t show!”
This is the nicest thing ever! Thank you lol.
doyleisanewconlanger
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Re: I need help and advice for my language's inventory.

Post by doyleisanewconlanger »

sangi39 wrote: 08 Dec 2020 15:32
doyleisanewconlanger wrote: 08 Dec 2020 11:47 https://imgur.com/a/u3qXZzO
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/ ... sp=sharing
You can look at these to see my languages inventory and rules. I came here because while I want my language to be cool (to me), breathy, and a bit throaty. I also want it to be a believable language. I also would like to lower my inventory even more, so any suggestions on that. Even if this is good for now, what sounds do you think should merge once this language evolves. I want to keep what makes this language unique.
Also how is my romanization for the letters that aren't the same as the ipa?
I actually really like this inventory, and the romanisation as well (Spanish-inspired?).

As for potential mergers, well, I think there's room for quite a few, e.g. /q/ could merge into either /k/ or /ʔ/, and /ħ/ could similarly merge into either /x/ or /h/ (or /x/ could merge into /ħ/), /k/ could merge into /tʃ/, /tʃ/ could merge into /ts/, the affricates could merge into their fricative counterparts.

Conditional sound changes are probably the ones that could be the most fun, e.g. /k q/ > /tʃ k/ before /i/ so that you keep /k/ and /tʃ/ in all environments, but /q/ only appears before /u/ and /a/, and then you might end up with conditional /k/~/tʃ/ and /q/~/k/ alternations if, say, you have any suffixes that begin with and /i/, with the former being irregular because you've still got the original instances of /tʃi/ as well (for example, say you have /natʃ/, /lik/ and /puq/, which take a plural suffix -/i/, yielding /natʃi/, /liki/ and /puqi/. With the conditional fronting before /i/, this would result in /natʃ/ vs /natʃi/, /lik/ vs. /litʃi/ and /puq/ vs. /puki/).

But yeah, there's lots of little changes you can make that wouldn't change the inventory a huge amount, but that could result in some nice little flares as the language evolves.
Thank you and nice catch!
I think I'll go the route of conditional sound changes because I really like this phonology. There are a few things that I am thinking about right now. One is to remove the palatal nasal. It feels a bit out of place. Another thing I was thinking about is maybe doing getting rid of affricates when this language evolves?? I want a small inventory for this language so I was thinking I could do all these conditional sound changes with this inventory, and then remove affricates for some other changes depending on their placement. What do you think of this idea? Also I think I'll add /w/ as I feel like it should be there, especially with this inventory.
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sangi39
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Re: I need help and advice for my language's inventory.

Post by sangi39 »

I think that could work.

For example, you could have, say, /f s ʃ/ > [v z ʒ] between vowels, which could then shift to [w l j]. If the affricates then just deaffricate, i.e. /ts tʃ/ > [s ʃ], regardless of environment, then you reintroduce instances of these two sounds between vowels. So for example, if you have /tʃani/, /mutsi/ and /kasa/ you'd get [ʃani], [musi] and [kala]. The new [w], though, would, I think, only be allophonic rather than phonemic, so what you could do is have something like original /l/ > [ɫ] (before /u/ and /a/, for example), then have that shift to [w], then have the /f s ʃ/ > [v z ʒ] > [w l j] shift. So that keeps most of what you have going on already, throws out the affricates, and gives you /w/.

If you wanted to get rid of the palatal nasal, the easiest option is to just have it merge into /n/, unless you wanted it to split as well, in which case keep it palatal before /i/ and then shift it to /j/.

Overall, though, I'd think you've got tons of room to work with and have a play around in, so you can test out different shifts and splits and mergers and see what throws out the best results for you [:)]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
doyleisanewconlanger
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Joined: 08 Dec 2020 11:35

Re: I need help and advice for my language's inventory.

Post by doyleisanewconlanger »

sangi39 wrote: 08 Dec 2020 23:29 I think that could work.

For example, you could have, say, /f s ʃ/ > [v z ʒ] between vowels, which could then shift to [w l j]. If the affricates then just deaffricate, i.e. /ts tʃ/ > [s ʃ], regardless of environment, then you reintroduce instances of these two sounds between vowels. So for example, if you have /tʃani/, /mutsi/ and /kasa/ you'd get [ʃani], [musi] and [kala]. The new [w], though, would, I think, only be allophonic rather than phonemic, so what you could do is have something like original /l/ > [ɫ] (before /u/ and /a/, for example), then have that shift to [w], then have the /f s ʃ/ > [v z ʒ] > [w l j] shift. So that keeps most of what you have going on already, throws out the affricates, and gives you /w/.

If you wanted to get rid of the palatal nasal, the easiest option is to just have it merge into /n/, unless you wanted it to split as well, in which case keep it palatal before /i/ and then shift it to /j/.

Overall, though, I'd think you've got tons of room to work with and have a play around in, so you can test out different shifts and splits and mergers and see what throws out the best results for you [:)]
Thank you so much! I will definitely keep all of this in mind as I continue this conlang,
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sangi39
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Re: I need help and advice for my language's inventory.

Post by sangi39 »

doyleisanewconlanger wrote: 09 Dec 2020 03:14
sangi39 wrote: 08 Dec 2020 23:29 I think that could work.

For example, you could have, say, /f s ʃ/ > [v z ʒ] between vowels, which could then shift to [w l j]. If the affricates then just deaffricate, i.e. /ts tʃ/ > [s ʃ], regardless of environment, then you reintroduce instances of these two sounds between vowels. So for example, if you have /tʃani/, /mutsi/ and /kasa/ you'd get [ʃani], [musi] and [kala]. The new [w], though, would, I think, only be allophonic rather than phonemic, so what you could do is have something like original /l/ > [ɫ] (before /u/ and /a/, for example), then have that shift to [w], then have the /f s ʃ/ > [v z ʒ] > [w l j] shift. So that keeps most of what you have going on already, throws out the affricates, and gives you /w/.

If you wanted to get rid of the palatal nasal, the easiest option is to just have it merge into /n/, unless you wanted it to split as well, in which case keep it palatal before /i/ and then shift it to /j/.

Overall, though, I'd think you've got tons of room to work with and have a play around in, so you can test out different shifts and splits and mergers and see what throws out the best results for you [:)]
Thank you so much! I will definitely keep all of this in mind as I continue this conlang,
Definitely look forward to seeing the results [:D]
You can tell the same lie a thousand times,
But it never gets any more true,
So close your eyes once more and once more believe
That they all still believe in you.
Just one time.
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