Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

Post by qwed117 »

Creyeditor wrote: 30 Oct 2020 18:31 Was it a front mid vowel?
[tick]
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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Was it a short e?
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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Creyeditor wrote: 01 Nov 2020 09:43 Was it a short e?
[tick] I think you know the word
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

Post by shimobaatar »

qwed117 wrote: 01 Nov 2020 23:15
Creyeditor wrote: 01 Nov 2020 09:43 Was it a short e?
[tick] I think you know the word
I can't speak for Creyeditor or anyone else, but I don't believe I do.

Hopefully this is an accurate summary of what's been confirmed so far:

àcogliuac
/əkoˈʎwak/
  • Typically, although not exclusively, used as an adverb.
  • Descended "from three words in Latin (some of which were inflected)".
  • The first word began with short <e> in Classical Latin, which changed to /a/ in "virtually every Romance language".
  • The word does not have an obvious connection to "water" or "wheels".
  • None of the three Latin words are related to colligō or illūc, none were 1st declension nouns, and none were prefixed with con-.
  • The first of the three words was not a preposition, and the third was not suffixed with -cus or -āticus.

Were any of the three Latin words 2nd declension nouns?
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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shimobaatar wrote: 11 Nov 2020 19:19
qwed117 wrote: 01 Nov 2020 23:15
Creyeditor wrote: 01 Nov 2020 09:43 Was it a short e?
[tick] I think you know the word
I can't speak for Creyeditor or anyone else, but I don't believe I do.
I really do not know it. Latin/Romance is not my main area of expertise. Maybe I know, but I am just blanking on it right now.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Nov 2020 19:19 Hopefully this is an accurate summary of what's been confirmed so far:

àcogliuac
/əkoˈʎwak/
  • Typically, although not exclusively, used as an adverb.
  • Descended "from three words in Latin (some of which were inflected)".
  • The first word began with short <e> in Classical Latin, which changed to /a/ in "virtually every Romance language".
  • The word does not have an obvious connection to "water" or "wheels".
  • None of the three Latin words are related to colligō or illūc, none were 1st declension nouns, and none were prefixed with con-.
  • The first of the three words was not a preposition, and the third was not suffixed with -cus or -āticus.
Thank you so much. I entered a bit late, so I might have missed some of these points.
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

Post by qwed117 »

Creyeditor wrote: 11 Nov 2020 20:20
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Nov 2020 19:19
qwed117 wrote: 01 Nov 2020 23:15
Creyeditor wrote: 01 Nov 2020 09:43 Was it a short e?
[tick] I think you know the word
I can't speak for Creyeditor or anyone else, but I don't believe I do.
I really do not know it. Latin/Romance is not my main area of expertise. Maybe I know, but I am just blanking on it right now.
I should perhaps have realized that it’s much easier to imagine knowing the word if you know the word.
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Nov 2020 19:19 Hopefully this is an accurate summary of what's been confirmed so fa

àcogliuac
/əkoˈʎwak/
  • Typically, although not exclusively, used as an adverb.
  • Descended "from three words in Latin (some of which were inflected)".
  • The first word began with short <e> in Classical Latin, which changed to /a/ in "virtually every Romance language".
  • The word does not have an obvious connection to "water" or "wheels".
  • None of the three Latin words are related to colligō or illūc, none were 1st declension nouns, and none were prefixed with con-.
  • The first of the three words was not a preposition, and the third was not suffixed with -cus or -āticus.

Were any of the three Latin words 2nd declension nouns?
All that looks correct. And at least one of the three words was a second declension noun in Latin
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

Post by shimobaatar »

qwed117 wrote: 12 Nov 2020 02:05 I should perhaps have realized that it’s much easier to imagine knowing the word if you know the word.
Ah, no worries! That's certainly true, but it can indeed be easy to forget.
qwed117 wrote: 12 Nov 2020 02:05 All that looks correct. And at least one of the three words was a second declension noun in Latin
Hmm… I'm trying to think of rather broad questions that could potentially help move things along.

Were all three of the words either nouns, adjectives, or verbs in Latin?
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

Post by qwed117 »

the three words in Latin were not all nouns, nor were they all adjectives, nor all verbs.
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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Is any of them a noun?
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

Post by qwed117 »

Creyeditor wrote: 28 Nov 2020 19:23 Is any of them a noun?
[tick] At least one of them is a noun
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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Is any of them a verb?
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

Post by qwed117 »

Creyeditor wrote: 29 Nov 2020 11:37 Is any of them a verb?
[cross] None of them are verbs
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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And how about an adjective?
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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Creyeditor wrote: 30 Nov 2020 07:44 And how about an adjective?
None of the words in Latin were adjectives (to my knowledge)
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

Post by Salmoneus »

Was the first word 'ecce'?

If so, was the second word 'hoc'? Or "ille"?
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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Salmoneus wrote: 01 Dec 2020 22:12 Was the first word 'ecce'?

If so, was the second word 'hoc'? Or "ille"?
[maybe] [tick] [cross]

re: ecce, it’s acogliuac, not açogliuac, although I must admit that does still look cool
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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I figure I might as well update this with the recent guesses since things have slowed down:
shimobaatar wrote: 11 Nov 2020 19:19 Hopefully this is an accurate summary of what's been confirmed so far:

àcogliuac
/əkoˈʎwak/
  • Typically, although not exclusively, used as an adverb.
  • Descended "from three words in Latin (some of which were inflected)".
  • The first word began with short <e> in Classical Latin, which changed to /a/ in "virtually every Romance language".
  • The word does not have an obvious connection to "water" or "wheels".
  • None of the three Latin words are related to colligō or illūc, none were 1st declension nouns, and none were prefixed with con-.
  • The first of the three words was not a preposition, and the third was not suffixed with -cus or -āticus.

  • The first Latin word, if it were ecce, would result in a word like açogliuac, rather than acogliuac. The first Latin word is not ecce, but something similar. (Of note, it might be useful to see that that change between Classical Latin and "virtually every Romance language" means that the word might be found more easily in a repository of Proto-Romance or Vulgar Latin words
  • The second Latin word is HOC actually HŌC, but I'm not too picky
  • At least one of the words (ie the third word) is a 2nd declension noun
  • Depending on how you splice it, the second word might be inflected, but the second word might not actually be inflected, and the third word might be inflected, since the first word might be inflected.
  • If you're not sure how the phonological segments of one word might have worked around the context of a word (which is a completely good thing to wonder about, in some Romance languages the final 'c' in words was elided early on, for example eccum hic became aquí rather than acui in Spanish, yet in Romanian it became aci- two different, contradictory trajectories) you can always ask me what happened to the 'c' or what would happen if HŌC had been, I dunno instead? - For the record, I would always be open to this.
Hopefully I didn't make this more confusing
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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What happened to the 'c' ?
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

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Creyeditor wrote: 18 Dec 2020 11:41 What happened to the 'c' ?
Good question, although perhaps I should have been clearer in my post to make it less open ended. It definitely wasn't elided like the 'c' in hoc ille in French (oui). It's that g. Hopefully that explains why ILLE or ILLUC couldn't be the progenitor of acogliuac- It would result in acogxe, acogxuc [akogʒe akogʒu]. That might actually be two hints in one
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Re: Guess the Word in Romlangs 2

Post by shimobaatar »

àcogliuac
/əkoˈʎwak/
  • Typically, although not exclusively, used as an adverb.
  • The word does not have an obvious connection to "water" or "wheels".
  • Descended "from three words in Latin (some of which were inflected)".
  • None of the three Latin words are related to colligō or illūc.
  • None of the three Latin words were verbs, adjectives, or 1st declension nouns.
  • None of the three Latin words were prefixed with con-.
  • The first word began with short <e> in Classical Latin, which changed to /a/ in "virtually every Romance language".
  • The first word began with "something similar to" ecce.
  • The first word was not a preposition.
  • The second word was hōc.
  • The third word was not suffixed with -cus or -āticus.
  • The third word was a second declension noun.

qwed117 wrote: 18 Dec 2020 06:25 Depending on how you splice it, the second word might be inflected, but the second word might not actually be inflected, and the third word might be inflected, since the first word might be inflected.
qwed117 wrote: 18 Dec 2020 06:25 If you're not sure how the phonological segments of one word might have worked around the context of a word (which is a completely good thing to wonder about, in some Romance languages the final 'c' in words was elided early on, for example eccum hic became aquí rather than acui in Spanish, yet in Romanian it became aci- two different, contradictory trajectories) you can always ask me what happened to the 'c' or what would happen if HŌC had been, I dunno instead? - For the record, I would always be open to this.
qwed117 wrote: 18 Dec 2020 06:25 Hopefully I didn't make this more confusing
I find these two statements a bit confusing/difficult to interpret, personally, but the other three were quite helpful.

Is the first part of the word from *accum, rather than ecce, then? If so, are the first two parts of the word equivalent to something like *accum hīc, but with hōc "hither" in place of hīc "here"?

Hopefully it's alright to ask both of those things at once. I have another question in mind, but first let's see whether or not I'm on the right track here.
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