(Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

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Titus Flavius
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Titus Flavius »

I think it may be spoken somewhere in Poland, as a minority language. Maybe
/m n ɲ ŋ/ m n ń ng
/p t t͡ʃ c͡ɕ k/ p t cz ć k
/b d ɟ͡ʑ/ b d dź
/f s ʃ ɕ x/ f s sz ś ch
/v z ʒ ʑ ɣ/ w z ż ź h
/w l ʎ ʁ r j/ u l lj rr r j
ω - near-close near-back unrounded vowel.
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Davush
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Davush »

Salmoneus wrote: 01 Sep 2021 00:15
I can't give you an exact example, but it certainly seems plausible to me. Look at English, and the way the periphrastic present has supplanted the the simple present in almost all contexts. We could easily imagine it going further and relegating the simple only to the habitual aspect, which it's not all that far from now. So it wouldn't seem less plausible to me to have the simple past relegated only to the perfect.
Thanks - that makes sense.

A further question...

Euphratic initially is similar to other Anatolian in that only one main participle form is productive, let's say this was PIE's *ent/*ont, reflected as -at, with the meaning of "attained state". This is fine for active verbs, where it can just attach to the stem without a problem:

ar- 'to arrive'
arat 'having arrived' (arats-issim | 'having.arived–I.am')

However, the problem comes with middle verbs. -at can't attach directly to the stem, as this would make the middle participle form identical to the active form, since the middle endings are all finite. (Other IE Langs seem to have used a wider variety of participle-type suffixes, but I'd rather Euphratic remain with only one in line with Anatolian.)

It seems there are a few options to generate a new middle participle:

a) The ending simply gets attached to (one of) the middle-voice finite stems:

Active: ippim 'I take'; apat 'having.taken'
Middle: apqa 'I take(for myself), I decide'; apqat 'having.decided'. (Otherwise it would just be 'apat' as above).

b) Some sort of construction where a deverbal/nominalizing suffix like *-wr gains a participle like function.

c) A participle-form of another verb is attached but then only applied to middle verbs.

d) (open to suggestions)

I'm not sure which/if any of these are plausible, and which might be the more likely route.

a) has the advantage that middle forms by Euphratic are no longer transparently derived from their active counterparts, and are largely lexicalized, so analogy of the root in the finite forms could happen. However, applying a participle-suffix to a "new" finite forms strikes me as something that doesn't really happen in IE?

b) This could work, but I'm least sure of this, and the route it would actually take.

c) This strikes me as quite characteristic of IE for finite forms, so perhaps could also work. Maybe a verb such as "become" which is already kind of semantically middle would work? The only problem might then be that the participle would almost never be predictable based on the finite forms...which isn't necessarily a problem as I suppose languages can tolerate large amounts of irregularity.

Anyway, any comments/advice/suggestions on any of the above would be very welcome!
teotlxixtli
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by teotlxixtli »

Is there such a thing as a Preventative mood? I have a Negative prefix that can co-appear with the Causative suffix and would have the meaning "to cause not to be" or something like that. Would the combination of these two forms constitute a new mood?

Takhi pi roranoratsu
/'taxi pi rorano'ratsu/
1stPS-ERG 3rdPS-ABS NEG-move-CAUS
I he/she/it no-move-cause
I prevented him from moving

Something like that?
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Creyeditor
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Creyeditor »

Why not call the form negative causative or causative negative?
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teotlxixtli
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by teotlxixtli »

Creyeditor wrote: 14 Sep 2021 22:20 Why not call the form negative causative or causative negative?
I had seen the combination of the Imperative and the Negative being called the Prohibitive, so I wondered if there were other such named combined forms
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Creyeditor »

I guess you could call it preventative, but I don't think it's a well established term.
Edit: Also, I think prohibitive is mostly used for simple forms, less often for combined forms.
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LinguoFranco
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by LinguoFranco »

So, I want to make a conlang inspired by languages I like, but what do you do if the languages you like are all very different from each other?
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by shimobaatar »

LinguoFranco wrote: 16 Sep 2021 18:52 So, I want to make a conlang inspired by languages I like, but what do you do if the languages you like are all very different from each other?
You could make multiple conlangs, each one inspired by a different natural language from your list.

If you'd prefer to just make one, though, you could look at the natural languages you like, take your favorite features from each of them, and then try to find a way to make those features fit together in a way that you find satisfactory.
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eldin raigmore
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by eldin raigmore »

LinguoFranco wrote: 16 Sep 2021 18:52 So, I want to make a conlang inspired by languages I like, but what do you do if the languages you like are all very different from each other?
Take the consonant inventory from one,
The vowel inventory from another one,
The roots from a third,
The morphology from a fourth,
The word-order from a fifth,
And the rest of the syntax from a sixth.
You might take the stress-and-rhythm patterns from a seventh.

….

Seriously: lots of pidgins and creoles and contact-languages have much of their vocabulary from one language and much of their syntax from another. So if you wanted to do that it could be realistic and naturalistic. The two source languages don’t have to be remotely similar typologically nor remotely related genetically nor from anything like nearby linguistic areas.
To make it even more fictional use three (or more) dissimilar source languages.
You don’t have to go overboard ( unless you want to!).
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Re: (Conlangs) Q&A Thread - Quick questions go here

Post by Salmoneus »

LinguoFranco wrote: 16 Sep 2021 18:52 So, I want to make a conlang inspired by languages I like, but what do you do if the languages you like are all very different from each other?
It's obvious: you continually agonise and keep going back and redoing everything because the two things you want to emulate can't be combined; one day you try to make it more like X, and then the next day you rip it up because it's not enough like Y...

...welcome to the hobby!
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